Why do you prefer Hurkyl's Recall to Shattering Spree ?
PS : pretty sure you meant Ringleader, not Recruiter.
Sorry for the typo --- it is Ringleader. my bad
As for H.R > 'Spree my mindset is this:
Recall has huge upside against many decks with artifacts (and decks with many artifacts for that matter) --- bouncing all of their artifacts in a single cast.
However, Spree can essentially break through counterspells (the only downside of Recall --- since you have more than 1 "spell")
Recall mass-bounces vs Spree's target destruction
I see both sides of the argument for going with either. It's just that I'd much rather bounce everything than break a few. Either case, both have pro's and con's.
Another example...
If Stax --- which is a pretty tough matchup --- has a decent start vs our decent start, I would rather bounce the field of artifacts than require paying alot of R to destroy everything. Recall would ruin or at least heavily disrupt their plans whereas Spree would hit maybe one or 2 solid cards -- yet leave the rest. Not to mention, if I topdeck either, assuming i got the mana to play either, i'd be happier seeing recall
Gobs thrives on tempo, to which Brainstorm is antithetic.
FoW forces you to play too much blue, hence not enough gobs. (Once you accept that, you'll stop playing Fire//Ice too.)
In conclusion, blue's two best cards are not fit for the task.
Puzzle, I'd love to hear your case and thoughts on what you said
While the R/U may be taken as a joke by some, I'm actually quite intrigued. I've been following this tread because I happen to have most of the gobblins as well as 2 volc. islands.
Take/Analyze this as you will, but here's my attempt at some sort of a decklist
****
Im testing this current list and I feel at least the Goblin crew has synergy. I actually like fire/ice (i know you're all going to blast me for that) but it can really be a solid addition.
[edit] Additionally, Fire/Ice is removal or a card to pitch to F.O.W
For big guys, it locks them away with Ice --- or permanents (such as stax), this can net a "turn advantage".
I happen to be a fan of H.Recall because for annoying decks that are artifact heavy, this blue-splash card seals the deal (especially catching the opponent occasionally off guard)
Blood Moon and Pyro are musts in any sideboard. Im not sold on Magus of the Moon because he's not thick enough to survive removal --- not saying this enchantment is any bit better --- but I'd opt for the need of enchant removal over critter removal for the opponent.
If you wanna splash a color, it's green for deed or white (yea i said white) for a combination of vindicate and swords to plowshares and you can use jotun grunt and kataki war's wage on the potential SB
Cunning wish is good for a toolbox SB otherwise cut it out (id keep a smaller toolbox)
Lim Dul's Vault is nice and/or Brainstorm
Darkblast (spot removal + dredge) ive seen and it works. although id rather use smother.
Some people like to use Haunting Echoes..which has a cc of 5, isn't the worst of things but running that as a 1x-2x in the deck isnt to bad either ---> esp. in a format where the grave is getting used by nearly all decks, it totally ruins the opponent (assuming you survive)
Engineered plague SB option is a must (3x)
Duress MD or SB
Massacre SB (2x) because there are alot of little guys running around and the altern. casting cost pops up on occasion which is nice
H-Recall > rebuild
*only thing i question is the Intuition + Ak's only because the format has grown so fast that by the time you use the AK, you'll be nearly dead. Id check out serum visions/bstorm/vault
***Regardless of whether or not you like dryad, so far it's the leading candidate in GAT decks, aside from Mongoose and 'Goyf. it's the only viable 'tog to play...the other one has its own deck called pyschatog.
I can see the deck pan out in 2 ways:
Defense --> basically chill behind pyroclasm, alot of counters, simple 10-12 cantrips. Mongoose mounts the early defense, nibbles on the enemy...'goyf and dryad = big game threats.
Aggro --> More cantrips, burn, less counters, dryad + goyf demolish people as usual with perhaps werebear (in addition) to mongoose, etc.
ps: MD -> you going to make the primer yet? Id love to read your views on things
Hey MD, thanks for making a separate thread --- no longer disputing ideas in Thresh. Anywho, I know you'll be up soon to making the primer and explanation of the deck but here's some imput and starting ideas:
Being in Legacy, we can't use GAT's bread and butter Gush.
To fill the void cantrips would have to be used (duh). But space is very very limited.
There are obvious choices we all have to build upon as the cornerstone of the deck.
After that, basically everything is up in the air. Id say a possible 5th staple is Serum Visions...although not everyone likes it. I'll let you edit the post to make a primer and see where the thread goes...
Im new here, but not new to MTG. I've played for years
Im comming back from a hiatus (left shortly after 5th Dawn) and came back recently (Saw Future Sight be released). I play Vintage and Legacy --- no motivation to do standard anymore. Just a place to chat on decklists and the likes.
Sorry for the typo --- it is Ringleader. my bad
As for H.R > 'Spree my mindset is this:
Recall has huge upside against many decks with artifacts (and decks with many artifacts for that matter) --- bouncing all of their artifacts in a single cast.
However, Spree can essentially break through counterspells (the only downside of Recall --- since you have more than 1 "spell")
Recall mass-bounces vs Spree's target destruction
I see both sides of the argument for going with either. It's just that I'd much rather bounce everything than break a few. Either case, both have pro's and con's.
Another example...
If Stax --- which is a pretty tough matchup --- has a decent start vs our decent start, I would rather bounce the field of artifacts than require paying alot of R to destroy everything. Recall would ruin or at least heavily disrupt their plans whereas Spree would hit maybe one or 2 solid cards -- yet leave the rest. Not to mention, if I topdeck either, assuming i got the mana to play either, i'd be happier seeing recall
Puzzle, I'd love to hear your case and thoughts on what you said
Take/Analyze this as you will, but here's my attempt at some sort of a decklist
R/u Goblins
****
Goblins
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x S.G.C
2x Goblin Gempalm
2x Goblin Recruiter
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
Spells, etc.
4x Vial
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
3x Fire/Ice (or Stifle)
Lands
6x Saclands (mire/foothills)
3x Rishadan Port
3x Mountain
4x Wasteland
4x Volcanic Island
SB
2x Goblin King
3x Hurkyl's Recall
4x Pyrokenesis
3x Blood Moon
3x Stifle (or Fire/Ice)
****
Im testing this current list and I feel at least the Goblin crew has synergy. I actually like fire/ice (i know you're all going to blast me for that) but it can really be a solid addition.
[edit] Additionally, Fire/Ice is removal or a card to pitch to F.O.W
For big guys, it locks them away with Ice --- or permanents (such as stax), this can net a "turn advantage".
I happen to be a fan of H.Recall because for annoying decks that are artifact heavy, this blue-splash card seals the deal (especially catching the opponent occasionally off guard)
Blood Moon and Pyro are musts in any sideboard. Im not sold on Magus of the Moon because he's not thick enough to survive removal --- not saying this enchantment is any bit better --- but I'd opt for the need of enchant removal over critter removal for the opponent.
just putting ideas out there folks....
If you wanna splash a color, it's green for deed or white (yea i said white) for a combination of vindicate and swords to plowshares and you can use jotun grunt and kataki war's wage on the potential SB
Cunning wish is good for a toolbox SB otherwise cut it out (id keep a smaller toolbox)
Lim Dul's Vault is nice and/or Brainstorm
Darkblast (spot removal + dredge) ive seen and it works. although id rather use smother.
Some people like to use Haunting Echoes..which has a cc of 5, isn't the worst of things but running that as a 1x-2x in the deck isnt to bad either ---> esp. in a format where the grave is getting used by nearly all decks, it totally ruins the opponent (assuming you survive)
Engineered plague SB option is a must (3x)
Duress MD or SB
Massacre SB (2x) because there are alot of little guys running around and the altern. casting cost pops up on occasion which is nice
H-Recall > rebuild
*only thing i question is the Intuition + Ak's only because the format has grown so fast that by the time you use the AK, you'll be nearly dead. Id check out serum visions/bstorm/vault
I can see the deck pan out in 2 ways:
Defense --> basically chill behind pyroclasm, alot of counters, simple 10-12 cantrips. Mongoose mounts the early defense, nibbles on the enemy...'goyf and dryad = big game threats.
Aggro --> More cantrips, burn, less counters, dryad + goyf demolish people as usual with perhaps werebear (in addition) to mongoose, etc.
ps: MD -> you going to make the primer yet? Id love to read your views on things
Socks + Sandals = a comfy combination
Simply Sandals = beach (who wants socks at the beach?)
Being in Legacy, we can't use GAT's bread and butter Gush.
To fill the void cantrips would have to be used (duh). But space is very very limited.
There are obvious choices we all have to build upon as the cornerstone of the deck.
1 - Force of Will
2 - Brainstorm
3 - Quirion Dryad
4 - Daze
After that, basically everything is up in the air. Id say a possible 5th staple is Serum Visions...although not everyone likes it. I'll let you edit the post to make a primer and see where the thread goes...
Cards that I can dream of:
Balance ---- that would be interesting
Gush --- you just unrestricted it in vintage
FTK --- bring back the Kavu already
and seriously, id be happy with Land Grant. yes, land grant. bring it back already
Im new here, but not new to MTG. I've played for years
Im comming back from a hiatus (left shortly after 5th Dawn) and came back recently (Saw Future Sight be released). I play Vintage and Legacy --- no motivation to do standard anymore. Just a place to chat on decklists and the likes.
A little wordy, but hey - let's have a good time!