I feel like modern isn't a sound investment either. At my local card shops they are usually scraping trying to put together people for modern at FNM and wasn't it just pulled off the Pro Tour? Plus the entry cost of Modern is very high. Decks are going to run you at least 1,000 dollars. Granted I spent like 600 on my Standard deck (partly why I'm so salty). MTG Finance takes most of the fun out of the game for me. Which is why I've gravitated towards the GoT LCG. It takes the financial component out of the equation.
I can't recall if there are rules against this (hopefully not), but both Ebay and TCGPlayer have stores that are relatively easy to set up. You can see ending auction or lowest market price (i.e. what people are paying, not stores) and depending on the size of your collection sell that way. If you have a friend with a mature eBay account, that may be the best as seller ratings are better both for giving buyers confidence and avoiding scammers.
But lastly - don't get out of magic! Even if you just stick to longer term (i.e. rotated) mythics and rares, you can have a blast w/ kitchen table magic and not fret the standard or modern-tournament price regression blues. It's still a very fun game - maybe more fun once you aren't worrying about secondary market losses.
Good luck
I'm going to keep bulk rares and commons, and I have all the Dual Decks I play casually with friends. I also play the Magic Duels app. Still love the game but I'm too grown to be losing this kind of money on a hobby. If cards held their value better I wouldn't be so discouraged but everything is sliding in standard and the cards with eternal value I don't have. Plus now standard cards rotate twice as fast so the loss is more frequent. I just don't like wasting money.
I've actually gotten into the Game of Thrones LCG which has a much cheaper buy in. And when you buy Chapter Packs they contain a playset of each card in it.
I'm going to give TCGplayer a try I think. I don't feel like trading/selling here is very safe and I'm not interested in eating a huge loss by selling to a shop (no shop hate, I just don't want to waste even more money).
So after betting on the wrong horse (Esper) and having the singles I've purchased fall to half the value I've paid for them, I've decided I've wasted enough money and want to get out of Magic.
What's the best way to get the most value out of your collection? I have my deck and a ton of cards from cracking open 6 or 7 booster boxes (my boyfriend bought those).
I know Star City has their buy list but they don't buy everything and the prices aren't great. Local shops apparently buy collections at half TCG mid but that's still eating a lot of loss.
Looks like we've been downgraded back to the Deck Creation forum. Can't say I'm surprised, my Esper deck has performed worse each week as the local Meta shifts. 3 of the decks I played this past Friday were WG Tokens which can be really difficult to answer between the Hangerbacks and how rapidly it spits out tokens. Spot removal is entirely ineffective and one can only Languish but so many times.
I'm contemplating dumping my collection and getting out of standard entirely. Between how badly my deck has slid and the ridiculous amount I paid for it, with standard card prices sliding into the toilet now (so I've taken a crazy loss ontop of everything else), I'm not super interested in playing anymore.
I love my Esper Walkers deck, it brutally shuts most anything down and has unparralleled inevitability. My problem is that it's simply too slow for 50 minute rounds. I've taken it to FNM 6 times now and most of my matches go 1 win, 1 tie... because we went to turns while I had them under my thumb but wasn't able to close in time. The solution would be to play faster but that's not easy, there's a lot of thought that goes into every move in a pure control deck and I have to calculate my moves. I even had a game that took the whole round against another control deck. We grinded face for 48 minutes, I stuck a Sphinx and was able to close. We didn't bother starting a second game.
The only games I've ended fast are when I was able to stick another control opponent with a Narset emblem after casting her on the curve and again against a weird kitchen table brew that was built around Thing in the Ice that I hit with an Infinite Obliteration on turn 3 on round 2. Stripped out his primary win condition so he folded.
This deck appears to be significantly faster while still maintaining the control feel. I'm going to try a new FNM shop on Friday and hopefully I'll find some people to trade with to pick up the pieces I need.
How's everyone liking this deck right now? I'm thinking about picking up the few pieces I don't already have for it. Great excuse to get some play out of the play set of JVP's I spent $75 a piece on (which I've already lost some $20 dollars ea on as his price continues to slide). The only things I need are a few more Dark Dwellers, a set of Kalitas and 3x Kolaghan's command. I've had a hard time making connections at the game shops I've been going to so trading has been difficult. I have a binder full of great stuff because my boyfriend has an addiction to cracking packs (he used to like doing scratch tickets but packs are his new gambling addiction... one I benefit from :sunny:)... but no one to trade with! lol
I mainboard To the Slaughter to deal with Hexproofs and Indestructibles. It's great for killing Lumbering Falls, Sphinx in mirror matches, Ulamog, etc.
Edit:
To elaborate, I picked Slaughter because it doubles as Walker removal and has the chance to take out two if you've hit Delerium.
Regarding the Seth Manfield PT deck, I'm thinking of not doing a transformational sideboard since everyone pretty much knows that creatures are coming in on game 2 and what removal they need to leave in (grasp, ultimate price). So it seems to not be as great after the secret is out. Rather maybe just boarding in removal and disruption that would be better for specific matchups. Anyone else thinking about this or actually tried this?
I'm pretty watchful while they sideboard. If they are doing a pretty big swap out it's usually safe to assume that it's mostly removal being taken out. The only creatures I sideboard in are my Sphinx in control match-ups and Thing in the Ice when I'm confident it's removal being boarded out. Most of my sideboard is dedicated to control match-ups now since mainboard takes care of creature-based strategies fine.
Honestly I couldn't find a single time when I wanted to board in Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, so I can't really defend him being in the sideboard anymore. I think I'm going to axe him for Duress or maybe Transgress the Mind. Leaning towards Duress so I could turn 1 cast it.
So I took my deck to FNM last night (first time being able to play it out-and-about due to my schedule). Good results, but I got some unforunate pairings.
Round 1: Mono-White Human Aggro
This match up, our decks shine. He would rapidly put cheap creatures out, and I would Languish them the next turn. One game I got really lucky and was able to use all 4 of my Languish. I went 2-0 with him, and my Walkers were never in danger. When those things get going, the card draw is crazy. I kept a full hand and never missed a land drop.
Round 2: Bant Company
Another favorable match up for us! Had a few close calls when he stuck Sylvan Advocates and I didn't have Ultimate Price or a general removal spell handy, but I also went 2-0 this round.
Round 3: UB Control
This is where the night got more complicated, and it was in this round and the next one that I identified my only real weakness: Pick the Brain and Transgress the Mind. This match up was agonizing. He Transgress'd my Sphinx out of my opening hand (which would have been able to kill him so much sooner had it been cast). Game 1 lasted 45 minutes. Had a close call when he raised 9 zombies, but I hit them with a Declaration in Stone and wiped them all out. I got a Sorin to stick and ticked his health down with the +1 and 2 tag teaming Shambling Vents. We got maybe 2 minutes into Game 2 when turns was called and we just agreed to Draw.
Round 4: Grixis TITI Homebrew Controlish Tempoish Something
This deck was a nightmare. It came out looking something like the UR Control, then he started playing some black. He had a lot of Read the Bones and Painful Truths as well as 4x Transgress the Mind. Game 1, I just had really bad draw. I got flooded and didn't draw any spot removal, so TITI flipped on turn 5 or 6 and beat my face.
Game 3 was the worst. He hit me with Transgress the Mind on Turns 2 AND 3, cleaving Narset and Sorin from my hand. He also had a fist full of counterspell and was able to defend his TITI from my removal. He actually forced me to top deck while his TITI ripped into me. I managed to remove TITI but he had awoken a land with Scatter to the Winds which was able to finish me.
The guy has been playing control for 8 years and said he was impressed with me and my deck. Took some of the sting off, but the match had given me a headache!
Conclusions:
Playing against other control decks sucks. It basically becomes a race to get my Sphinx of the Final Word out to stop the counterspell onslaught, then using my own counterspell to safely cast and defend my Walkers. It's slow, grindy, and not a lot of fun.
We are extremely vulnerable to hand hate. Transgressing us on turn 2 can be disastrous, especially when they follow it up with a robust counterspell suite. I'm not sure what a good solution would be, other than a spell that gives us hexproof (Orbs of Warding?) or hoping we have Negate and the mana to start casting it on turn 2.
We destroy creature-based decks with ease. My opponents were extremely frustrated that they couldn't keep anything on the battlefield for more than a turn. Languish is the real MVP and I'm never bummed to see it come into my hand in these match-ups.
Calling me ignorant and ganging up on me is going to cause me to behave ignorant. Period. If you come at me sideways, I'm going to clapback. Be civil if you want to be civil but you won't find civility in attacking me.
Following the pro tour results I had my gloat moment because I had caught nothing but negativity and criticism for my Esper deck since the original thread in New Card Discussion. I've moved on, made a primer and posted a new decklist and am still getting flak. I'm not going to be pleasant when encountering unpleasantness mod warnings or not.
<Dang, you girls mad or nah? Panties twisted in every direction. >
Its okay though, I'll humor you.
After being so ignorant about being right and the others so dead wrong, i would have liked to See any changes to the manabase if you want to play a WW card in a deck which is so deep black(Gideon). Hell, seth even Played no shatter because the deck is so black. So if you want to be arrogant, please Show that you can back it up. (Look at my manabase on Page 4 which could not play BB and i had more Black sources than you White sources).
My mana base covers the WW. Why? I have as many white sources as I have white mana costs (look at the pie chart on my TappedOut page, pumpkin) and I'm not trying to play him on the curve. There aren't a lot of instances where I'd be gunning to play him on turn 4. On turn 4 I'd much rather Languish or cast Narset or spot removal, or anything else. Just because he's 4 CMC doesn't mean I'm going to cast him on turn 4 (but I can). He's a 1 of that I can fetch with Petition if I find that I need him.
I want to remember you that, yes some of your ideas where good but dismissed here, there were a Lot of stuff where you were dead wrong. Not everything you said was gold. Thing in the ice for example.
The meta is still young, and Thing in the Ice isn't counted out yet. The UR Control Deck uses 4x of him, and boarding him in after the opponent boards out their removal is no more risky than boarding in JVP. I hope you know that I'm going to rub your nose real deep into it when he starts popping up in T1 decks.
@Celestrael: Zero discard spells in the 75 seems like a weird choice after complaining about the Eldrazi Ramp match up, and is possibly even more important given their move to Pyromancer's Goggles. They're also key against CoCo, GW Tokens and Control mirrors and if people are playing the Seasons Past deck, very good there as well.
In my opinion, 1x Transgress the Mind isn't going to do anything. And I will say now that it's probably one of the things you'll see cut when he posts his next decklist.
Kais0r is right in that you can't just add a bunch of white spells to the deck without changing the mana base. I would start by at least adding the other two Prairie Stream, but would you also care to explain why you've dropped from Seth's 27 to your 26 land with a deck no less expensive?
Ya'll are real butthurt over that 1x Gideon aren't you? 3 cards a "bunch" doth not make. Declaration only costs 1 white, and while Gideon costs 2, he is only a 1x and doesn't need to be played on the curve. There's also 1x Planar Outburst which can't be cast until later in the game when I'll most certainly have two white mana by then.
There's 7 white symbols in the main deck, with 7 white symbols in the mana base (and 4 evolving wilds in-case I need to fetch a plains). I'm too blessed to be stressed.
I don't think the second Sphinx of the Final Word is necessary in the sideboard and would prefer a more versatile threat such as Dragonlord Silumgar or Dragonlord Ojutai, or even Linvala, the Preserver, to continue your theme of increasing the white spells.
It's for control/mirror match ups and is a million times better than anything you listed. In mirrors, it'll be a race to get Sphinx out and I'd rather have two in that situation. Your still caught up in your Esper Dragons mentality which has already been proven to be sub-optimal at best. Those dragons are crap, and I have plenty of blue in my deck to cast Sphinx.
I understand that Thing in the Ice is a pet card of sorts for you based on earlier discussion of this archetype, but I still don't think this is the deck for it (even in the UR Control deck dedicated to flipping it, it's often unimpressive).
See above.
I really dislike your removal suite; I do not think To The Slaughter is a very good card at all, and it has actually lost power in your deck as a result of cutting Grasp of Darkness and Ultimate Price to make room for it (not to mention losing percentage points against GW Tokens which you identified as a potentially difficult matchup).
This is the last time I'm going to say it, but I think going forward we are going to need more versatility in our removal suite. Manfield's main deck only has two cards that can kill a Planeswalker, and no cards to kill a mirror Sphinx nor large indestructibles like Ormendahl (other than that double Grasp nonsense). This card can do all those things. So naysay if you will, but <your track record is horribad so I put exactly zero stock in it.>
As I said before, I really think we are going to need more versatility in our answers so I'm keeping some cards that Manfield didn't use that were in my homebrew.
2x To the Slaughter for indestructibles, hexproofs (especially in mirrors against Sphinx!), planeswalker killer if the battlefield is clear, etc.
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar... Manfield didn't run him either but I think he's just too great in a control shell to ignore. His emblem is useless to us but his +1 and +0 abilities are just so great it doesn't matter. He can defend himself and the other walkers with his +0 and if we need to get aggressive to close the game or apply pressure, we can swing in for 5 with his +1. I love him and will keep him as a 1x no matter what.
Regarding my sideboard, it's tailored mostly to combat other control decks, with some extra hate for Bant Company and GW Tokens. I also have 2x Thing in the Ice to board in if I see my opponent boarding out their removal once they realize they have no targets for it. I had Virulent Plague in my sideboard previously, but I'm only putting 1x in now that can be fetched with Dark Petition for dealing with those Token decks we are going to be seeing so many of now.
My critique of my own decklist is I'm not in love with my mana base. If you look at the mana pie chart on my TappedOut page in the signature, I'm slightly short on Black symbols, by like 2x. But I don't really see many good ways to rectify it. That I'm going to continue working on.
I wouldn't use Declaration unless there's a big pay off. I mostly would use it to exile things I want gone fast and to not come back (like Eldrazi) or to nix a Gideon when he's a creature if I don't have a Ruinous Path handy.
I'm going to keep bulk rares and commons, and I have all the Dual Decks I play casually with friends. I also play the Magic Duels app. Still love the game but I'm too grown to be losing this kind of money on a hobby. If cards held their value better I wouldn't be so discouraged but everything is sliding in standard and the cards with eternal value I don't have. Plus now standard cards rotate twice as fast so the loss is more frequent. I just don't like wasting money.
I've actually gotten into the Game of Thrones LCG which has a much cheaper buy in. And when you buy Chapter Packs they contain a playset of each card in it.
I'm going to give TCGplayer a try I think. I don't feel like trading/selling here is very safe and I'm not interested in eating a huge loss by selling to a shop (no shop hate, I just don't want to waste even more money).
What's the best way to get the most value out of your collection? I have my deck and a ton of cards from cracking open 6 or 7 booster boxes (my boyfriend bought those).
I know Star City has their buy list but they don't buy everything and the prices aren't great. Local shops apparently buy collections at half TCG mid but that's still eating a lot of loss.
Suggestions?
I'm contemplating dumping my collection and getting out of standard entirely. Between how badly my deck has slid and the ridiculous amount I paid for it, with standard card prices sliding into the toilet now (so I've taken a crazy loss ontop of everything else), I'm not super interested in playing anymore.
The only games I've ended fast are when I was able to stick another control opponent with a Narset emblem after casting her on the curve and again against a weird kitchen table brew that was built around Thing in the Ice that I hit with an Infinite Obliteration on turn 3 on round 2. Stripped out his primary win condition so he folded.
This deck appears to be significantly faster while still maintaining the control feel. I'm going to try a new FNM shop on Friday and hopefully I'll find some people to trade with to pick up the pieces I need.
Edit:
To elaborate, I picked Slaughter because it doubles as Walker removal and has the chance to take out two if you've hit Delerium.
I'm pretty watchful while they sideboard. If they are doing a pretty big swap out it's usually safe to assume that it's mostly removal being taken out. The only creatures I sideboard in are my Sphinx in control match-ups and Thing in the Ice when I'm confident it's removal being boarded out. Most of my sideboard is dedicated to control match-ups now since mainboard takes care of creature-based strategies fine.
Round 1: Mono-White Human Aggro
This match up, our decks shine. He would rapidly put cheap creatures out, and I would Languish them the next turn. One game I got really lucky and was able to use all 4 of my Languish. I went 2-0 with him, and my Walkers were never in danger. When those things get going, the card draw is crazy. I kept a full hand and never missed a land drop.
Round 2: Bant Company
Another favorable match up for us! Had a few close calls when he stuck Sylvan Advocates and I didn't have Ultimate Price or a general removal spell handy, but I also went 2-0 this round.
Round 3: UB Control
This is where the night got more complicated, and it was in this round and the next one that I identified my only real weakness: Pick the Brain and Transgress the Mind. This match up was agonizing. He Transgress'd my Sphinx out of my opening hand (which would have been able to kill him so much sooner had it been cast). Game 1 lasted 45 minutes. Had a close call when he raised 9 zombies, but I hit them with a Declaration in Stone and wiped them all out. I got a Sorin to stick and ticked his health down with the +1 and 2 tag teaming Shambling Vents. We got maybe 2 minutes into Game 2 when turns was called and we just agreed to Draw.
Round 4: Grixis TITI Homebrew Controlish Tempoish Something
This deck was a nightmare. It came out looking something like the UR Control, then he started playing some black. He had a lot of Read the Bones and Painful Truths as well as 4x Transgress the Mind. Game 1, I just had really bad draw. I got flooded and didn't draw any spot removal, so TITI flipped on turn 5 or 6 and beat my face.
Game 2 I sideboarded in my 3x Negate, an Infinite Obliteration and an additional Sphinx of the Final Word. He also boarded in a ton of counterspell. I drew the Infinite Obliteration in my opening hand and played it on the curve on turn 3, exiling all of his Thing in the Ice which removed his primary win condition. He tried to stick a Chandra but I Ruinous Path'd it and when I stuck him with a Narset Transcendent emblem he conceded as he wouldn't be able to cast anything.
Game 3 was the worst. He hit me with Transgress the Mind on Turns 2 AND 3, cleaving Narset and Sorin from my hand. He also had a fist full of counterspell and was able to defend his TITI from my removal. He actually forced me to top deck while his TITI ripped into me. I managed to remove TITI but he had awoken a land with Scatter to the Winds which was able to finish me.
The guy has been playing control for 8 years and said he was impressed with me and my deck. Took some of the sting off, but the match had given me a headache!
Conclusions:
Following the pro tour results I had my gloat moment because I had caught nothing but negativity and criticism for my Esper deck since the original thread in New Card Discussion. I've moved on, made a primer and posted a new decklist and am still getting flak. I'm not going to be pleasant when encountering unpleasantness mod warnings or not.
Its okay though, I'll humor you.
My mana base covers the WW. Why? I have as many white sources as I have white mana costs (look at the pie chart on my TappedOut page, pumpkin) and I'm not trying to play him on the curve. There aren't a lot of instances where I'd be gunning to play him on turn 4. On turn 4 I'd much rather Languish or cast Narset or spot removal, or anything else. Just because he's 4 CMC doesn't mean I'm going to cast him on turn 4 (but I can). He's a 1 of that I can fetch with Petition if I find that I need him.
The meta is still young, and Thing in the Ice isn't counted out yet. The UR Control Deck uses 4x of him, and boarding him in after the opponent boards out their removal is no more risky than boarding in JVP. I hope you know that I'm going to rub your nose real deep into it when he starts popping up in T1 decks.
In my opinion, 1x Transgress the Mind isn't going to do anything. And I will say now that it's probably one of the things you'll see cut when he posts his next decklist.
Ya'll are real butthurt over that 1x Gideon aren't you? 3 cards a "bunch" doth not make. Declaration only costs 1 white, and while Gideon costs 2, he is only a 1x and doesn't need to be played on the curve. There's also 1x Planar Outburst which can't be cast until later in the game when I'll most certainly have two white mana by then.
There's 7 white symbols in the main deck, with 7 white symbols in the mana base (and 4 evolving wilds in-case I need to fetch a plains). I'm too blessed to be stressed.
It's for control/mirror match ups and is a million times better than anything you listed. In mirrors, it'll be a race to get Sphinx out and I'd rather have two in that situation. Your still caught up in your Esper Dragons mentality which has already been proven to be sub-optimal at best. Those dragons are crap, and I have plenty of blue in my deck to cast Sphinx.
See above.
This is the last time I'm going to say it, but I think going forward we are going to need more versatility in our removal suite. Manfield's main deck only has two cards that can kill a Planeswalker, and no cards to kill a mirror Sphinx nor large indestructibles like Ormendahl (other than that double Grasp nonsense). This card can do all those things. So naysay if you will, but <your track record is horribad so I put exactly zero stock in it.>
3x Choked Estuary
4x Evolving Wilds
2x Island
1x Plains
2x Prairie Stream
4x Shambling Vent
4x Sunken Hollow
6x Swamp
Planeswalker (8)
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2x Narset Transcendent
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
2x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
4x Anticipate
2x Grasp of Darkness
3x Spell Shrivel
2x To the Slaughter
3x Ultimate Price
Sorcery (11)
2x Dark Petition
2x Declaration in Stone
4x Languish
1x Planar Outburst
2x Ruinous Path
Creature (1)
1x Sphinx of the Final Word
2x Anguished Unmaking
1x Infinite Obliteration
3x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1x Narset Transcendent
3x Negate
1x Planar Outburst
1x Sphinx of the Final Word
2x Thing in the Ice
1x Virulent Plague
As I said before, I really think we are going to need more versatility in our answers so I'm keeping some cards that Manfield didn't use that were in my homebrew.
Regarding my sideboard, it's tailored mostly to combat other control decks, with some extra hate for Bant Company and GW Tokens. I also have 2x Thing in the Ice to board in if I see my opponent boarding out their removal once they realize they have no targets for it. I had Virulent Plague in my sideboard previously, but I'm only putting 1x in now that can be fetched with Dark Petition for dealing with those Token decks we are going to be seeing so many of now.
My critique of my own decklist is I'm not in love with my mana base. If you look at the mana pie chart on my TappedOut page in the signature, I'm slightly short on Black symbols, by like 2x. But I don't really see many good ways to rectify it. That I'm going to continue working on.