Wait this thread is still alive? I guess I can update opening post unless someone wants it? Curse not agree with my mobile severely impacts the amount of time I can spend on this forum.
God damn, I tried to multi-quote like 4 times and all it does it time out and get rid of what I posted so **** it.
I don't see this part where cruise pushed jund out of the meta. Jund was dead with TNN, it only rarely got to the top tables thanks to that card. TNN made every single non-u midrange strategy pointless, not cruise.
What cruise did was weaken deathrite, wasteland, and lilina tremendously. Pre-cruise Shardless BUG and BUG delver were the decks to beat, elves and show and tell decks were the only decently placing combo decks, and miracles was the other deck in the tier 1 gauntlet. The rest of legacy was either poorly positioned or just not at all viable anymore.
This ban was worse than just pointless, it was bad. The BUG meta was stale, this meta was not.
Still high after people bought some hoping for it to get unbanned in legacy. Its an edh staple and a very iconic card so the price is kinda sticking for now.
What are the implications of a TC ban in legacy but not a Dig ban?
Will dig simply replace TC in that format?
That is because the cruise ban is tenenous at best, legacy had gotten pretty interesting with cruise edging out land denial and discard which made storm and other combo better.
Honestly surprises me, the last few scg open top 16s had been really exciting but now we'll probably end up back to where we started pre-cruise.
Like you literally have no point in learning a deck well in that format, you don't get to play it for long. Its worse than standard rotation at this point because its less predictable. (though following this trend expect both twin, something from affinity, and jeskai ascendency getting the axe soon.
Banning cruise in legacy was uncalled for, it shook up the meta a ton but wasn't necessarily broken.
There's been a lot of banter on Facebook recently about the upcoming B/R and its associated speculation. The top players in my meta are of the opinion 1) cards will be unbanned and 2) Survival makes a comeback because of how many "answers" exist since its departure. It's really time WotC bring back some cards. Land Tax came back and didn't warp the format. I think some of the "lesser disputed" cards like 'Vise and 'Twist should come back into the format.
I still think its bs survival got the axe compared to sneak and show, reanimator, eves, and ilk which are similiar creature cheat decks that have proven to be fair and viable. Not to mention Survival has actually gotten weaker as more cards got printed with very powerful hate cards now commonplace in the format.
It would be another Christmas for me if I get to play one of my favorite legacy decks of all time.
If I were WotC, I would make some kind of statement about cards that are on the proverbial fence (both legal and illegal for the format when the announcement is made). There has been a plethora of *****ing and moaning about cards that toe the line. I would say "we are looking very closely at X, Y, and Z because of their continual rise in power level with each new set". My 'watch list' includes Show and Tell, Delver, "aggressive filters/draw" (bstorm, ponder, g.probe, top, TC). At the same time, some cards like Survival and Mind's Desire may come down in power due to quality answers being printed. Both these cards are too close to make an unbanning IMHO and I'd make an announcement saying they may come back but now isn't the time"
I don't think it would do anything, <wotc strait up said they think brainstorm is too good, but is treating as a meta defining card and thus will not get the axe and people still constantly ***** on it>. I don't want them making such statements that they might have to revoke either so I would rather them to stay silent here. The less wotc does for legacy the better, the best thing they can do to the format is take 1 card off the banlist every update to see if its fair (at least for the ones that stand a chance of being fair, obv I don't want to see power, flash, gush, etc come off).
I would bring back Survival only if we simultaneously banned the annoying crap like Vengevine and/or Necrotic Ooze that abuses it. Friends made great counterpoints on Facebook about how strong legacy staple cards are nowadays at combating SotF. Although there's more hate/answers, I'm not 100% sure. I certainly wouldn't want the meta to warp around VV-Survival as it did several years ago. Again, my conservative call would be to just announce Survival as a "we're watching the card closely and may indeed bring it back".
Why? Vengevine is probably not even good and ooze is a 4 drops that wins the game, ie par for the course in legacy. Deathrite and rip are both ways to strait kill the graveyard interaction survival enjoys and both have a ton of reason to see play. Vengevine swarm is also lackluster these days, it eats up 8 decks slots for vines and rootwallas, and its still not as strong as say omitell. It also takes like GGGG1 to just get a vine into play though granted it isn't paid all at once. I personally think survival was axed way prematurely and that was not even considering all the effective hate we enjoy today.
Warning issued for Brainstorm discussion during the period in which Brainstorm discussion is prohibited.
- Teia
I'm curious if humble defector is simply playable as is in some red decks, maybe even burn. If you need a bolt, drawing 2 cards and giving your opponent a 2/1 will be worth it.
If not, it seems stupid with jeskai ascendency.
I like Ugin in anything playing cloudpost, its basically AiD for 1 more mana and a walker stuck on it. About the only relevant thing it does not get for you is griselbrand which is the type of card you'd rarely beat with a boardwipe anyway.
Master of the Unseen is disgusting and is probably the biggest cash grab mythic in the set. Card seems strong with the only real drawback being the cost 3 syndrome.
Manifest is mildly interesting as its an enabler for cards like phyrexian dreadnought, though I don't see any particular manifest cards that seem any good.
Mass LD is fine but as a ramp player I will kill you first if I suspect you have any. Don't complain when I do, way too many people hide behind the "but its fair!" argument and therefore they should not be focused out of playing in multiplayer.
Misdirection is mostly only going to be good in a heavy bug meta since its best against hymn and abrupt decay. Still its no fow, fow is crucial for the unfair matchups.
Not to mention Timespiral was the largest set ever, I would have no idea how to calculate the chance of foils in the set because I don't remember how TS foils worked.
Surprised there's no action in this thread after the deck put up a few top 8 and top 16 results in the last month.
I think the problem is nothing new happened, although ANT is doing moderately well (and the best out of storm decks atm) I just haven't seen anything in the way of innovation. We can't really use the new delve toys (I've tried) so there isn't much to be excited about.
ANT is probably the strongest storm deck atm so if you want to play storm combo I think you are in the right archtype. though I built that solidarity list that saw play at the last gp and its also been a ton for fun, especially since its pretty cheap.
It also affected WOTC's attitude towards reprinting in general. Their was such a fallout on cards getting devalued wotc has been very tentative with staple reprints in general. Things like Modern Masters limited print run can at least be in part contributed to the fallout from the chronicles print run.
I don't see this part where cruise pushed jund out of the meta. Jund was dead with TNN, it only rarely got to the top tables thanks to that card. TNN made every single non-u midrange strategy pointless, not cruise.
What cruise did was weaken deathrite, wasteland, and lilina tremendously. Pre-cruise Shardless BUG and BUG delver were the decks to beat, elves and show and tell decks were the only decently placing combo decks, and miracles was the other deck in the tier 1 gauntlet. The rest of legacy was either poorly positioned or just not at all viable anymore.
This ban was worse than just pointless, it was bad. The BUG meta was stale, this meta was not.
Have people already forgotten pre-cruise top 16s were basically elves, miracles, and BUG with occasional representation of the rest the meta?
Cruise improved the format immensely by being the foil to discard and wasteland.
That is because the cruise ban is tenenous at best, legacy had gotten pretty interesting with cruise edging out land denial and discard which made storm and other combo better.
Honestly surprises me, the last few scg open top 16s had been really exciting but now we'll probably end up back to where we started pre-cruise.
Like you literally have no point in learning a deck well in that format, you don't get to play it for long. Its worse than standard rotation at this point because its less predictable. (though following this trend expect both twin, something from affinity, and jeskai ascendency getting the axe soon.
Banning cruise in legacy was uncalled for, it shook up the meta a ton but wasn't necessarily broken.
I still think its bs survival got the axe compared to sneak and show, reanimator, eves, and ilk which are similiar creature cheat decks that have proven to be fair and viable. Not to mention Survival has actually gotten weaker as more cards got printed with very powerful hate cards now commonplace in the format.
It would be another Christmas for me if I get to play one of my favorite legacy decks of all time.
I don't think it would do anything, <wotc strait up said they think brainstorm is too good, but is treating as a meta defining card and thus will not get the axe and people still constantly ***** on it>. I don't want them making such statements that they might have to revoke either so I would rather them to stay silent here. The less wotc does for legacy the better, the best thing they can do to the format is take 1 card off the banlist every update to see if its fair (at least for the ones that stand a chance of being fair, obv I don't want to see power, flash, gush, etc come off).
Why? Vengevine is probably not even good and ooze is a 4 drops that wins the game, ie par for the course in legacy. Deathrite and rip are both ways to strait kill the graveyard interaction survival enjoys and both have a ton of reason to see play. Vengevine swarm is also lackluster these days, it eats up 8 decks slots for vines and rootwallas, and its still not as strong as say omitell. It also takes like GGGG1 to just get a vine into play though granted it isn't paid all at once. I personally think survival was axed way prematurely and that was not even considering all the effective hate we enjoy today.
Warning issued for Brainstorm discussion during the period in which Brainstorm discussion is prohibited.
- Teia
If not, it seems stupid with jeskai ascendency.
I like Ugin in anything playing cloudpost, its basically AiD for 1 more mana and a walker stuck on it. About the only relevant thing it does not get for you is griselbrand which is the type of card you'd rarely beat with a boardwipe anyway.
Master of the Unseen is disgusting and is probably the biggest cash grab mythic in the set. Card seems strong with the only real drawback being the cost 3 syndrome.
Manifest is mildly interesting as its an enabler for cards like phyrexian dreadnought, though I don't see any particular manifest cards that seem any good.
I think the problem is nothing new happened, although ANT is doing moderately well (and the best out of storm decks atm) I just haven't seen anything in the way of innovation. We can't really use the new delve toys (I've tried) so there isn't much to be excited about.
ANT is probably the strongest storm deck atm so if you want to play storm combo I think you are in the right archtype. though I built that solidarity list that saw play at the last gp and its also been a ton for fun, especially since its pretty cheap.
Its always just supply and demand, its just the weird ones are back by casual/edh/cube crowd.
It also affected WOTC's attitude towards reprinting in general. Their was such a fallout on cards getting devalued wotc has been very tentative with staple reprints in general. Things like Modern Masters limited print run can at least be in part contributed to the fallout from the chronicles print run.