My updated list, if anyone wants to test it out. So far so good. It just out card advantages the new G/B Control deck, it struggles game 1 against WW and CoCo but its not impossible to win.
Looks very solid - like the Seasons Past, such a fun card...
Played at my local FNM yesterday (time difference due to JP time), went 2-1 but a friend piloting the same 75 went 3-0 (about 18 participants, I think).
My 1 loss was to Bant Company, so yes, I guess that is a very tough matchup.
I actually put extra mass removal such as Descend upon the Sinful and Planar Outburst but I just couldn't keep up.
The key to this deck in my mind is board stagnation, not control - try to swamp out and slow down the opponent until you get an edge.
It doesn't really "lock" the board or completely overrun things, but slow control gradually wins you the game.
In that sense, I think the ramp to quicker board presence and removal is the key - what do you think?
I think Nissa's Renewal played a key role with the life-gain and ramp yesterday.
Went 3-0 at my local game shop here in Japan.
Will post detailed decklist later, but basically ran something similar to Graycm18's list but with more focus on early mana and ramp.
Game 1
Went 2-0 against an interesting Jund-monsters ish deck that really didn't do anything. Spent early turns ramping and playing mana dorks, while clearing away with spot removal for both games. Early Nissa and Gideon made some tokens, and Nahiri came down to get rid of some random remaining creaturea. Took some time to win, though, as I don't really run definitive sweepers.
Descend upon the Sinful came down with some enchantments and planeswalker in the grave for Delirium, which provided a nice clock.
Game 2
2-1 against mono-red aggro.
Deck played everything from Sin Prodders to Zurgos and Exquisite Firecraft. Simply burned to death in Game 1, but games 2-3 went well with Jaddi Offshoot from the side. I did however took a LOT of damage, and if it wasn't for a timely Radiant Flames and Declaration in Stone, I would have lost the game.
Chandra's tokens pumped by Gideon's ultimate slowly took care of things.
Game 3
Played against a RG ramp Eldrazi type deck. Won game 1 quickly through early Nissa and Leaf Gilder aggro. Lost game 2 because of my deck's slowness, and planeswalkers were answered with larger creatures and TKS stripping my hand.
Game 3 was fun, went on for a LONG time. I played 2 Nissas, 2 Gideons, an Avacyn, and one Nahiri before closing out with one Chandra.
This is my current list. I would like to say that adding Avacyn was a brilliant move. It has allowed me to make some crazy plays due to it ability of having flash,vigilance and gives all my creatures indestructibility. The only deck I really struggle against is hand hate decks. Which in our colors there is nothing we can really do about that. Thankfully we still have draw or filtering in Oath of Nissa, Elvish Visionary, Nahiri, Chandra. So basically with 4 Radiant Flames and 4 Declaration mainboard I have no bad matchups
Graycm18,
Thank you for your decklist.
Avacyn seems nice - a good Nahiri target as well.
Some few questions from my side. . .
1. How does the Manabase seem? Looks pretty tap-in heavy - I knot it's a control deck and is slow as-is, but does it hurt you much? That is the main reason I tried to cut as many tap-in duals I can without hindering the stability in my original list.
2. How does Arlinn play out? Noticed you do not play Nahiri - let me know of your experience.
3. Speaking of Flash in Avacyn, I felt like Quarantine Field, though a strong card, may be a bit too slow - that is why I opted for Stasis Snare, and a Descend Upon the Sinful as a sweeper.
Let me know.
1.) So the mana base surprising works very well, and pretty consistent. I can afford to play a tapped land turns 1 and 2. This is mainly due to having four copies of Radiant Flames mainboard, therefore I don't mind not really investing creatures turns 1-3. Also if you notice, there aren't too many early game mana invested options in my deck. (Probably one of the main reasons why I don't run Nissa)
2.) Well, my list does run two Nahiri mainboard, and two out the side. Nahiri is such a versatile PW, but I never want multiples of her, which I feel is the same about Arlinn. Arlinn though works wonderful. Topdecking a Gideon or any creature after having a Arlinn on the field is great. She makes almost anything an instant threat on a open board. I honestly believe my numbers as far as PWs go are were we want to be. I rarely use Arlinn to emblem but I have used her flipped side -1, to win a game before.
3.) Quarantine Field is a catch all. Its literally our only way to deal with opposing planeswalkers. It allows me to also get rid of pesky enchantments, artifacts, or creatures when I don't have a Nahiri.
PS: On a side note if I wouldve taken this to SCG open, I wouldve killed the meta, considering its COCO and W/ Human decks. This deck destroys aggro.
Yes, sorry, I misread your decklist and noticed you do run Nahiris. . .
I will take a stab with your list and see how things go.
I use Angelic Purge with random Nissa, Gideon, and Oath of Gideon tokens as my main removal against planeswalkers - will definitely try out Quarantine Field.
I will run this deck with some tune-up at my local game store towards the end of the month, will report.
This is my current list. I would like to say that adding Avacyn was a brilliant move. It has allowed me to make some crazy plays due to it ability of having flash,vigilance and gives all my creatures indestructibility. The only deck I really struggle against is hand hate decks. Which in our colors there is nothing we can really do about that. Thankfully we still have draw or filtering in Oath of Nissa, Elvish Visionary, Nahiri, Chandra. So basically with 4 Radiant Flames and 4 Declaration mainboard I have no bad matchups
Graycm18,
Thank you for your decklist.
Avacyn seems nice - a good Nahiri target as well.
Some few questions from my side. . .
1. How does the Manabase seem? Looks pretty tap-in heavy - I know it's a control deck and is slow as-is, but does it hurt you much? That is the main reason I tried to cut as many tap-in duals I can without hindering the stability in my original list.
2. How does Arlinn play out? - let me know of your experience.
3. Speaking of Flash in Avacyn, I felt like Quarantine Field, though a strong card, may be a bit too slow - that is why I opted for Stasis Snare, and a Descend Upon the Sinful as a sweeper.
I would rather have Arlinn Kord than Nahiri. And since you are playing Naya, you should take a look at Needle Spires.
Needle Spires + Arlinn Kord's +1 ability combo.
Let me know how it plays out.
Thank you.
I spent some time yesterday sparring with some friends, using proxied decks from the "Deck Creation (Standard)" forum.
Overall, against 6 types of decks, this deck won about 70% of the matchup. (Not entirely piloted by me, played 25 games, this deck won 17 of them).
Arlinn does not immediately help your situation. Initial move is to give you a token and that's it.
You could say the same about Gideon, Ally of Zendikar but personally Arlinn will make you win a game you're on the way to winning, whereas Nahiri will help you get out of a tough situation.
I haven't played enough to say that I 100% don't like Arlinn, but in top deck mode or in a tough situation, Nahiri gives me more edge.
Card advantage (not really advantage, but does let you dig one card deeper) from Nahiri is also very nice.
Arlinn is nice, but it requires you to have creatures - if you are in a tough position, that means you probably don't have creatures - or maybe a 1/1 Kor or 0/1 Plant, or some Mana creature in this deck. Lightning bolt may not help you - that's why I like Nahiri more.
Nahiri generally may not be a better card than Arlinn, but in a low-creature, control-ish deck like this one, Nahiri seems to play better.
Needle Spires was nice, but maybe a 1 or 2-of at most.
Didn't get to play it too much.
But it's somewhat of the same concept, though less focus on ramp and more focus on the end game, primarely. Discussion kinda died out a day or so ago though.
Thank you, I guess I didn't notice the thread because of the name "super friends" did not ring a bell. . .
Anyway, thank you for pointing me to this.
Yes, it seems like it is on the same direction, though the deck I have posted relies more on the initial ramp and late game control/massing strategy.
Not too sure if I should merge over to the other thread when discussions have died off - still waiting for any constructive criticism.
Though this is my first time posting in the Standard forum, I have done some testing with the following deck and would appreciate serious feedback. I tried looking around for a similar deck in the forum, but the closest I found was the 4C Planeswalker Control deck, which isn't really what I am aiming for here.
Concept:
- Early Ramp
- Early board control/stagnation with token creators like Nissa, Gideon, and Oath of Gideon
- "Fire-and-Forget" with multiple planeswalkers, either Cheated in by Oath of Nissa or hardcasted through ramp
- Don't try to overprotect planeswalkers, they are just there to provide some advantage, not expected to stick on the board
- Finish off with Chandra, Sigarda (which I am looking for a better option, but hey she flies and swings nicely), or tokens from Descend upon the Sinful.
The key is to ramp into excessive mana while trying to hold the board with removal, and win with planeswalkers.
Very simple, and at first it might sound like one of those childish strategies of "play the best cards I have.dec" but as far as I have tested (against, unfortunately, old standard decks like Jeskai Aggro, Abzan Midrange, etc.) it seems like a viable strategy.
I would seriously appreciate your input, as I am trying to really fine-tune this and make it viable for a tournament.
Any criticism I would gladly accept.
Thank you for the detailed answer!
Took a quick look at some of the example cards you have pointed out, and it really showed me how much the environment had changed!
Will see if I can upgrade and run the same deck, but will likely shift to the newer archetype.
Coming back to the game after a few years, wanted to ask a few questions.
1. What happened to Stax? Smokestacks and Tangle Wire?
the next 2 are similar, but more specific...
2. Uba Stax was especially hot when I was playing - seems it doesn't see much if not any play. What happened?
3. Karn also saw much play when I was playing, beating down with Tangle Wires and Trinispheres and Crucibles, and also killing opponents' moxen. Seems it doesn't see much play anymore?
Looks very solid - like the Seasons Past, such a fun card...
Will definitely try this out.
Played at my local FNM yesterday (time difference due to JP time), went 2-1 but a friend piloting the same 75 went 3-0 (about 18 participants, I think).
My 1 loss was to Bant Company, so yes, I guess that is a very tough matchup.
I actually put extra mass removal such as Descend upon the Sinful and Planar Outburst but I just couldn't keep up.
The key to this deck in my mind is board stagnation, not control - try to swamp out and slow down the opponent until you get an edge.
It doesn't really "lock" the board or completely overrun things, but slow control gradually wins you the game.
In that sense, I think the ramp to quicker board presence and removal is the key - what do you think?
I think Nissa's Renewal played a key role with the life-gain and ramp yesterday.
Looking forward to game reports from others.
Would have liked to try Arlinn, etc. but didn't have the actual cards unfortunately.
Will keep brushing it up.
8 Forest
5 Plains
3 Canopy Vista
2 Mountain
2 Needle Spires
1 Cinder Glade
1 Blighted Woodland
1 Fortified Village
Creatures (6)
3 Leaf Gilder
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Archangel Avacyn
Spells (31)
4 Oath of Nissa
2 Quarantine Field
2 Nissa's Pilgrimage
2 Oath of Gideon
2 Declaration in Stone
2 Nissa's Renewal
2 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Radiant Flames
1 Descend upon the Sinful
1 Hedron Archive
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Jaddi Offshoot
3 Surge of Righteousness
2 Silkwrap
2 Quarantine Field
2 Declaration in Stone
1 Radiant Purge
1 Dromoka's Command
Will post detailed decklist later, but basically ran something similar to Graycm18's list but with more focus on early mana and ramp.
Game 1
Went 2-0 against an interesting Jund-monsters ish deck that really didn't do anything. Spent early turns ramping and playing mana dorks, while clearing away with spot removal for both games. Early Nissa and Gideon made some tokens, and Nahiri came down to get rid of some random remaining creaturea. Took some time to win, though, as I don't really run definitive sweepers.
Descend upon the Sinful came down with some enchantments and planeswalker in the grave for Delirium, which provided a nice clock.
Game 2
2-1 against mono-red aggro.
Deck played everything from Sin Prodders to Zurgos and Exquisite Firecraft. Simply burned to death in Game 1, but games 2-3 went well with Jaddi Offshoot from the side. I did however took a LOT of damage, and if it wasn't for a timely Radiant Flames and Declaration in Stone, I would have lost the game.
Chandra's tokens pumped by Gideon's ultimate slowly took care of things.
Game 3
Played against a RG ramp Eldrazi type deck. Won game 1 quickly through early Nissa and Leaf Gilder aggro. Lost game 2 because of my deck's slowness, and planeswalkers were answered with larger creatures and TKS stripping my hand.
Game 3 was fun, went on for a LONG time. I played 2 Nissas, 2 Gideons, an Avacyn, and one Nahiri before closing out with one Chandra.
Will post decklist later.
You are absolutely right. . . left me speechless and realized how stupid I am...
Will certainly go with the Quarantine Field route...!
Yes, sorry, I misread your decklist and noticed you do run Nahiris. . .
I will take a stab with your list and see how things go.
I use Angelic Purge with random Nissa, Gideon, and Oath of Gideon tokens as my main removal against planeswalkers - will definitely try out Quarantine Field.
I will run this deck with some tune-up at my local game store towards the end of the month, will report.
Graycm18,
Thank you for your decklist.
Avacyn seems nice - a good Nahiri target as well.
Some few questions from my side. . .
1. How does the Manabase seem? Looks pretty tap-in heavy - I know it's a control deck and is slow as-is, but does it hurt you much? That is the main reason I tried to cut as many tap-in duals I can without hindering the stability in my original list.
2. How does Arlinn play out? - let me know of your experience.
3. Speaking of Flash in Avacyn, I felt like Quarantine Field, though a strong card, may be a bit too slow - that is why I opted for Stasis Snare, and a Descend Upon the Sinful as a sweeper.
Let me know.
Thank you.
I spent some time yesterday sparring with some friends, using proxied decks from the "Deck Creation (Standard)" forum.
Overall, against 6 types of decks, this deck won about 70% of the matchup. (Not entirely piloted by me, played 25 games, this deck won 17 of them).
I did try the Arlinn Kord instead of Nahiri, the Harbinger and my impression was this:
Arlinn does not immediately help your situation. Initial move is to give you a token and that's it.
You could say the same about Gideon, Ally of Zendikar but personally Arlinn will make you win a game you're on the way to winning, whereas Nahiri will help you get out of a tough situation.
I haven't played enough to say that I 100% don't like Arlinn, but in top deck mode or in a tough situation, Nahiri gives me more edge.
Card advantage (not really advantage, but does let you dig one card deeper) from Nahiri is also very nice.
Arlinn is nice, but it requires you to have creatures - if you are in a tough position, that means you probably don't have creatures - or maybe a 1/1 Kor or 0/1 Plant, or some Mana creature in this deck. Lightning bolt may not help you - that's why I like Nahiri more.
Nahiri generally may not be a better card than Arlinn, but in a low-creature, control-ish deck like this one, Nahiri seems to play better.
Needle Spires was nice, but maybe a 1 or 2-of at most.
Didn't get to play it too much.
Thank you, I guess I didn't notice the thread because of the name "super friends" did not ring a bell. . .
Anyway, thank you for pointing me to this.
Yes, it seems like it is on the same direction, though the deck I have posted relies more on the initial ramp and late game control/massing strategy.
Not too sure if I should merge over to the other thread when discussions have died off - still waiting for any constructive criticism.
Though this is my first time posting in the Standard forum, I have done some testing with the following deck and would appreciate serious feedback. I tried looking around for a similar deck in the forum, but the closest I found was the 4C Planeswalker Control deck, which isn't really what I am aiming for here.
Concept:
- Early Ramp
- Early board control/stagnation with token creators like Nissa, Gideon, and Oath of Gideon
- "Fire-and-Forget" with multiple planeswalkers, either Cheated in by Oath of Nissa or hardcasted through ramp
- Don't try to overprotect planeswalkers, they are just there to provide some advantage, not expected to stick on the board
- Finish off with Chandra, Sigarda (which I am looking for a better option, but hey she flies and swings nicely), or tokens from Descend upon the Sinful.
9 Forest
6 Plains
3 Canopy Vista
2 Mountain
1 Cinder Glade
1 Blighted Woodland
1 Fortified Village
Creatures (6)
3 Leaf Gilder
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Sigarda, Heron's Grace
Spells (31)
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Stasis Snare
2 Nissa's Pilgrimage
2 Oath of Gideon
2 Declaration in Stone
2 Nissa's Renewal
2 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Angelic Purge
1 Descend upon the Sinful
1 Hedron Archive
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Jaddi Offshoot
3 Dromoka's Command
3 Silkwrap
2 Declaration in Stone
1 Radiant Purge
1 Vine Snare
1 Angelic Purge
The key is to ramp into excessive mana while trying to hold the board with removal, and win with planeswalkers.
Very simple, and at first it might sound like one of those childish strategies of "play the best cards I have.dec" but as far as I have tested (against, unfortunately, old standard decks like Jeskai Aggro, Abzan Midrange, etc.) it seems like a viable strategy.
I would seriously appreciate your input, as I am trying to really fine-tune this and make it viable for a tournament.
Any criticism I would gladly accept.
Took a quick look at some of the example cards you have pointed out, and it really showed me how much the environment had changed!
Will see if I can upgrade and run the same deck, but will likely shift to the newer archetype.
So I guess my old Ubat Stax running bazaars and welders and uba mask are obsolete...?
Coming back to the game after a few years, wanted to ask a few questions.
1. What happened to Stax? Smokestacks and Tangle Wire?
the next 2 are similar, but more specific...
2. Uba Stax was especially hot when I was playing - seems it doesn't see much if not any play. What happened?
3. Karn also saw much play when I was playing, beating down with Tangle Wires and Trinispheres and Crucibles, and also killing opponents' moxen. Seems it doesn't see much play anymore?
Please kindly provide your answers.