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The World of Kamigawa
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    I just feel like we arrived at Orazca's doorstep in a blink. Seems a bit silly for a city fatally sought after for centuries. Compass or not.

    I think this is a matter of pacing. It's been weeks, possibly even months since Jace joined up with Vraska, but most of that has happened off-camera (so to speak) so it really has seemed way too fast. Adding to it is that it's been what? A day or two since the shipwreck? How far could they possibly have traveled inland? Looking at the map I'm having a hard time figuring out where the ship wreck could have happened that's close enough to just WALK to Orazca in a day. Admittedly there's no legend or scale to the map, but it can't be THAT small or the idea of not being able to find Orazca looses plausibility, magic or no magic.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from Dom4419 »
    When, I believe it was Vraska who says "something has awakened" when Orazca was rising, did anyone else think about the World Turtle concept?


    I actually immediately thought of Gishath and the other Sun's Avatar dinos.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from Joao Wockeez »
    Is there any chance Jace is under Bolas control? i mean it isnt that far fetched to assume Lord Nicolas may have put a trigger in Jace's head that would turn Jace into one of his minions, idk about you guys, but i doubt the fact that Jace ended up in Ixalan is just a coincidence.


    It's been posited before, but I don't think that's the case. Vraska specifically calls out that the spell Bolas gave her to contact his agent crosses between planes, and that she didn't even know it was possible for a spell to do that. As that's the case, there would be no reason to send his Agent to Ixalan until Vraska locates the object, that just leaves hiom with TWO trapped minions.

    Now, he DID give her the spell before the confrontation with the Gatewatch, but it's also made clear that when Bolas faced off the with GW that straight up murdering them WAS an option. You wouldn't generally murder an agent in the middle of a mission. Beyond that, Jace simply doesn't possess a means of moving plane-bound items off world.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    What would an Arlinn Card look like away from Innistrad? No DFC, no werewolf mechanics to use. She would just be..another G/R planeswalker.


    Arlinn's card didn't care about werewolves at all. "Werewolf" doesn't appear once on her card, and her transformation trigger is completely independent of the werewolf mechanic. The only things tying her to werewolves are flavor and the fact that she's a DFC. But then, Garruk also got a DFC planeswalker card and he's not even tangentially affiliated with werewolves, so honestly you may as well discount that tie as well.

    An off-world Arlinn card would look exactly like her on-world card, minus the DFC aspect. The reason she would be "another G/R planeswalker" is because mechanically she IS a fairly generic G/R walker, even in her werewolf affiliated card form.

    EDIT: And for the record, I found what little we saw of Arlinn (all one and a half stories she appeared in) infinitely more interesting than most of other 'walkers to show up in SoI block (Second only to Tamiyo, maybe tied with Nahiri).
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from 5colors »
    Quote from SimicNuggets »
    The ironic thing about all this Gatewatch talk is, aren't they (creative) trying to minimize their presence overall?


    Nope. On the creative side we won't be see every member showing up as a big group like we have. The Gatewatch are the protagonists and while we might get small stories that not have them in it or having them play more of a background, over all we will be we will get more gatewatch storylines then not.


    To expand on this, the Gatewatch will continue to be our story protagonists for the foreseeable future, it's their presence on cards that is being pulled back on. Players were getting tired of Gatewatch members automaticaly eating half of all possible planeswalker slots in the physical product. (And having entire hand worth of versions in standard at one time.)
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Am I the only one who didn't care for either vampires in their PoV?

    I mean it sounds as though Mavren got his entire crew needlessly killed when he broke the navigational equipment and crashed their ship...overzealousness is not one of white's better qualities.

    I don't feel too sorry for his bloodfast victim though, I mean to murder a compatriot over a game of cards? That guy deserves to be Vampire-chum, although I do feel for the no-doubt traumatized guard who almost got killed if it were not for his armour.

    And as many have noted, Vona seems pretty psychotic, I'd like to introduce her to a few Innistradi vampire-hunters...it'd probably take a dozen TBH.

    I agree that parts seemed pretty forced, like why does Vraska need to tell Jace about Planeswalkers now? Her recharacterization is still a lil jarring to me but oh well.

    And the alliance between Huatli and the merfolk shaman also felt a lil quick and convenient.

    That being said I'm appreciative of the length of the stories, let the Dragon's Maze 2.0 begin!


    I think she's telling him now because she realizes that whatever lies in Orazca is directly tied to planeswalkers. More than that as they get closer and closer to Orazca, they're nearing the end of her mission, which means being able to leave Ixalan, and that means that Jace would figure it out for himself soon enough.

    It's one thing for her to tell him something she's been holding back thus far, it's another thing entirely to discover you've been lied to (by omission) the whole time. She's smart enough to know that Jace finding out on his own would just cause trouble for her.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from user_938036 »
    Quote from Goryo »

    So here's what I don't get. How did Jace and Vraska, sailing from The High and Dry way to the north, wind up that far south if their compass was pointing them toward Orazca?
    You have made a fairly large and incorrect assumption. The compass doesn't point directly towards Orazca, or Vraska would have found it already. Also with the vague description The Belligerent could have been trying to make land on any part of the eastern coast.


    There was also apparently a loose gear in the compass. Right before the wreck there was a part where Jace took the compass apart and fixed it. Up to this point the compass very likely hasn't been functioning correctly, whatever exactly its real function even is.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    I can't really see that happening. Creative's invested a good deal of storyline to building up her characterization, I really doubt they'd do it just to Fridge her. Particularly given how much that would seem to fly in the face of the recent girls-are-awesome-and-badass trend.

    As for the story, it was good and I liked the character interactions, but I can't help but be a tiny bit disappointed that we didn't get a Legion of Dusk pov this week. I really hope they're not planning to NOT give LoD a pov story.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from Etherium Sage »
    Quote from OathboundOne »
    Tangential, but that would be crazy OP. That would let you use their ultimate ability every turn once you'd built the initial activation Loyalty.

    Board wipes every one of your turns.
    Gain 100 life on each of your turns.
    Mass token generation.
    Mass creature pumps.
    Infinite turns.


    Loyalty counter removal is a cost for the activation of the - abilities and not the abilities themselves removing the counters, so with that wording, his card wouldn't stop that if I'm not mistaken.

    I agree that The Immortal Sun will have a planeswalker-centric ability due to it (presumably) driving the planeswalk lock on the plane.

    Beyond the activation cost, when has a planeswalker ever had an ability that removed Loyalty counters from a(nother) planeswalker you control (aside from direct damage, which, why would you be aiming it at your own planeswalker?).

    Ertai Planeswalker's own analysis/stated goal of the affect was that Loyalty only ever goes up.
    This way, when it comes to loyalty counters, the only way is up so Planeswalkers never leave the battlefield. however, the can still be killed (destruction or damage) and the card remains balanced since you cannot activate abilities you have not accumulated enough counters for yet.
    That would preclude removing loyalty counters as payment. Either the ability doesn't work as intended (it doesn't stop removal of Loyalty counters as costs, thus Loyalty does go down) or is insanely broken.

    This isn't really relevant to the topic though, so I apologize from the derailment. On Topic-wise. I'm really looking forward to tomorrow's (assumed) Vampire story. I'm hoping we get some nice moral grey from at least one of the legends. (Arguel or Mavren Fein* most likely, as having a title like "Butcher of Magan" strong indicates Vona won't be particularly relatable/palatable.)

    EDIT:* I'm forever reading/writing his name as Marvin...
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Tangential, but that would be crazy OP. That would let you use their ultimate ability every turn once you'd built the initial activation Loyalty.

    Board wipes every one of your turns.
    Gain 100 life on each of your turns.
    Mass token generation.
    Mass creature pumps.
    Infinite turns.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    I don't think they have, actually. We only know of Jace attempting it once (iirc). Likewise we've only seen Hualti do it once. Vraska seems like she's tried it at least once (cause she described it when she first saw Jace), but most likely not more than that. Bolas told her she couldn't return till her task was done, and while she(we) might have interpreted that to mean that the meditation realm wouldn't let her back in without completing her objective, it's not a far leap to consider that he might (also) have meant that she couldn't leave Ixalan till she found what he sent her for.

    Angrath's really the only definitely unknown variable here, we have no idea how long he's been there, nor how many times he's tried to leave.

    It's possible that it's only happened three times recently. Once with Vraska, most likely not long after she arrived a few months ago. Once for Jace over a month ago, and once for Hualti, an indeterminate time ago.

    Depending on how long, and how often Angrath's been trying to leave, this might not be all that unusual at all.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from jshrwd »
    Quote from OathboundOne »
    Quote from jshrwd »
    Quote from Etherium Sage »
    Quote from jshrwd »
    I like mixing today's story with Jay's Raven Man story and assuming the following:

    Orcaza is the source of the binding on Ixalan
    It's the remnant artifact created by The Guardian to protect Shandalar
    Bolas has the demon's spell that was used to seek out the artifact on Shandalar and has infused that spell into the Thaumatic Compass
    Why would Bolas want an artifact that can prevent planeswalker movement?
    ---My first thought was to use it as a planeswalker prison, but that's what Ixalan is now
    ---Maybe he wants to use it to keep rivals away from his conquests
    Somehow, the destruction of the Onnake on Shandalar relates to the destruction foretold in the story of Orcaza, but I can't figure how just yet


    Why does the compass point to Jace though?

    I never got that impression from the last story.
    It felt like finding him was coincidental.
    They kept sailing after finding him and there's no mention of the compass.
    I assumed they were continuing to follow it after they found him.

    Did I miss something?


    Navigator Malcolm pointed out that Jace (or the direction the compass was pointing) was south, completely away from the continent of Ixalan. If they had continued to head south, they would have wound up nowhere near Orazca (Unless the plane of Ixalan is a very small sphere, and continuing south eventually leads to them descending from the north).

    From The Talented Captain Vraska:
    Vraska held out the thaumatic compass. "We need to go south."

    Malcolm, ever the careful navigator, made a small noise of concern. "Are you certain?"

    Vraska nodded. "We go where it points, and what we need is that way."
    Malcolm was staring at the strange compass. "But the direction it is pointing to is away from the continent of Ixalan. The Golden City isn't an island off its coast . . ."

    Right, but nowhere does it say specifically that the compass led them to Jace. Nor does it say that it stopped working after that. They sailed for days and days after finding Jace. Even though they don't mention the compass after finding Jace, I doubt they were just meandering about with a spinning compass always pointing at him.
    Quote from Unique_Fossil »
    Attending to the matter of the thaumatic compass pointing to Jace:
    • So far it has been assumed the compass will only point to the Immortal Sun.
    • We have also made the possible leaps that the Immortal Sun is something not native to this world.
    • What if, rather than the compass being tuned solely to the Immortal Sun, it is simply attuned to ANYTHING that is not native to the world Ixalan inhabits?


    So, I had a theory occur to me: That as a Thaumatic Compass, it points towards intense magic(s), not necessarily places or material things. And that it was never actually pointing at/to Jace. It was pointing to the intense spike of magic that would likely have occurred when Jace attempted to planeswalk away, and the Binding kicked in. Finding Jace was merely a coincidence. In this case, once the surge of magic from the binding dissipated, the compass may well have gone back to pointing towards Orazca (or another strong source of magic, as it's stated that the compass occasionally changes direction, only to change again a few hours later).

    There is the matter of timing, though. Jace spent 40days on Useless Island, which seems like a very long time for Vraska and crew to sail south. Additionally the compass would also have pinged on Huatli's aborted walk, and since I simply have no idea when in the overall timeline of events that happened, I couldn't begin to say what happened with that.

    I think there are holes in this theory, but I figured I'd share it anyhow.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from jshrwd »
    Quote from Etherium Sage »
    Quote from jshrwd »
    I like mixing today's story with Jay's Raven Man story and assuming the following:

    Orcaza is the source of the binding on Ixalan
    It's the remnant artifact created by The Guardian to protect Shandalar
    Bolas has the demon's spell that was used to seek out the artifact on Shandalar and has infused that spell into the Thaumatic Compass
    Why would Bolas want an artifact that can prevent planeswalker movement?
    ---My first thought was to use it as a planeswalker prison, but that's what Ixalan is now
    ---Maybe he wants to use it to keep rivals away from his conquests
    Somehow, the destruction of the Onnake on Shandalar relates to the destruction foretold in the story of Orcaza, but I can't figure how just yet


    Why does the compass point to Jace though?

    I never got that impression from the last story.
    It felt like finding him was coincidental.
    They kept sailing after finding him and there's no mention of the compass.
    I assumed they were continuing to follow it after they found him.

    Did I miss something?


    Navigator Malcolm pointed out that Jace (or the direction the compass was pointing) was south, completely away from the continent of Ixalan. If they had continued to head south, they would have wound up nowhere near Orazca (Unless the plane of Ixalan is a very small sphere, and continuing south eventually leads to them descending from the north).

    From The Talented Captain Vraska:
    Vraska held out the thaumatic compass. "We need to go south."

    Malcolm, ever the careful navigator, made a small noise of concern. "Are you certain?"

    Vraska nodded. "We go where it points, and what we need is that way."
    Malcolm was staring at the strange compass. "But the direction it is pointing to is away from the continent of Ixalan. The Golden City isn't an island off its coast . . ."
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Ugin, at the very least, should know that trapping is at best a temporary solution; and as Ugin is really the only one of Bolas'current enemies with a long enough lifespan to realistically be around when a pissed off elder dragon who already killed him once inevitably gets free I doubt Ugin would be okay with a plan that merely contains him.

    ETA: That is, of course, unless Ugin has nebulous plans that somehow require Bolas' continued survival. At which point I will heave the most put-upon sigh, shake my head, and wash my hands of the whole mess.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Ixalan General Discussion
    Quote from 5colors »
    Quote from OathboundOne »
    Except Bolas isn't looking for Ugin, which gives us the advantage.

    Obscure Star Wars quote aside, Bolas's plan's cannot possibly include Ugin, as Bolas believed the Spirit Dragon to be dead.
    Hopefully this small detail is enough to upset Bolas's goals somewhere down the line...


    No, it was revealed at some point during the Amonkhet storyline that he's aware Ugin's back from the dead.

    I think that's a wasted opportunity on creative's part, sadly. They could have held Ugin in reserve until Bolas was on the verge of achieving his ultimate goal, and then had Ugin show up and wreck his sh**. That's really the only plausible way for Bolas to lose at this point. He's just SO FAR beyond the abilities of other walkers that a surprise Ugin is just about the only way to keep him in line without a total ass-pull deus ex machina.


    Where?
    Are we reading the same stories b/c I don't recall anywhere that Bolas learned of Ugin's resuscitation


    It was the art book for Amonkhet. It states Bolas plans didn't count for Ugin reappearing on Zenikdar and helping the gatewatch kill/seal the eldrazi but it didn't throw off his plans too much.


    Yes, thank you, I was recalling the incorrect source. Spent a good while reviewing the story articles last night trying to find it.

    Art books may have a spotty accuracy record, but IMO it's best to accept them as canon until otherwise contradicted.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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