Guile obviously dies, but does it get exiled with Patron's secondary effect and he gets +1/+1 to all his vamps or does Guile's graveyard effect go off and get shuffled back into my library?
I remember seeing a red spell (not sure if instant/sorc/enchant, def wasn't artifact or creature) that did damage on cast, then had like a boomerang effect where every turn it would come back and do damage again.
I also can't remember if it was only for a certain amount of turns or if it had an upkeep cost or what.
Anyone help me out? Been wracking my brain for a while on this heh.
But what I still don't understand is the wording on Gift where it says "return that card".
I understand that when you flicker something on the battlefield or have it change zones it becomes a different instance of what's on the card, like a totally different creature or a different spell.
But Gift doesn't say return that spell or return that creature. It says return that card... how does a card become a different card by changing zones? It's still the same physical object?
I don't know if I'm just getting hung up on the wording, but it's especially confusing.
Then my opponent casts a Doom Blade and says "with Gift of Immortality's ability on the stack I cast Crypt Incursion."
I wasn't sure of that interaction so I said the creature gets returned to the battlefield immediately and he said it didn't "due to the ability being on the stack the creature is therefore in the graveyard which allows me to exile your creature."
But it still didn't make sense to me since the ability said "When enchanted creature dies, return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control" which I took to mean that even though he exiled the creature from the graveyard using the stack once the stack returns to Gift of Immortality's ability the card would return from exile back to the battlefield since it doesn't say that it has to be returned from the graveyard, just that it has to die to return it.
He then said "once it changes zones from the graveyard to exile it changes into an entirely different card, and therefore the ability fizzles even though it doesn't have a clause for returning it from the graveyard."
I still don't understand, could someone enlighten me here?
Ok so I built this deck and when it works it works beautifully, ending the game in a few turns.
However, it definitely has some tempo loss if I don't get the right combination of cards and it also has pretty *****ty defense. I'm hoping you guys could help me here to make it faster. It used to be r/w/b so I could run Dismember without taking too much damage from it... so I still have some black mana generation that I need to take out. Although I did have the idea of tossing 4x Chief of the Edge in to help the fling damage out but not sure if worth running 3 colors for it when I don't have fetchlands... I'd definitely go r/w/b again if a good argument is made for it though.
I'm open to any suggestions on how to round this out so I can either recover more easily or burn the enemy even faster while keeping in the deck's theme. I did end up having a few more artifacts and tried to run Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer and Adaptive Automatron but not really sure how to approach that angle.
I have plenty of ways to add trample in green (Rancor and company) or from equipment and the deck is multicolor anyways. I already had hexproof but it was coming from enchantments and equipment which got flickered and processed.
I was playing cat/warrior tribal lifegain (artifacts and auras that gave me lifegain and the Ajani that gives 100 life as ultimate to use with Felidar Sovereign).
The removals I had were just some instants like Doomblade.
Again, though, he just flickered and processed everything. It really sucked lol.
One of the most frustrating things I've had to play against as a new player to Magic is flicker based decks. But most recently I faced one that was downright infuriating.
To note: he was doing pretty much everything on my turn, so always had full mana available on his turn since he was using mana abilities off of creatures.
Every time I'd go to remove the opponents creature he'd flicker it. I'd go to attack him and he'd block, then flicker his blocking creature, then say that since there's no target for the attacking creature that it does no damage.
I also had a bunch of creatures that I equipped or enchanted to give them hexproof or other effects. He'd simply flicker the enchantments or flicker/process the equipment then use Strangler's ability to keep killing my creatures.
No matter what I did he'd be able to flicker something in response.
Eventually he was able to wipe my board and keep me from playing anything except land.
How the hell do you even play against something like this? I mean I guess you could beat it with a straight burn or aggro/tempo deck but other than that I'm scratching my head. The only other thing I can think of is Torpor Orb /shrugs.
I thought about this some more and I think I'm going to remove the black and white cards (Chief of Scale's and the Abzan Ascendancy) and go with Green Blue using the Lorescale Coatls and some other blue snakes and toss in some blue draw card sorceries and instants then try to make it work from there.
I'll slap something together and test it out and let you guys know how it works!
Well it seems like Sosuke's ability doesn't work with ping cards since it specifically says "combat damage" which means it has to occur during combat.
So I went ahead and narrowed the cards down to 60 and I usually get a pretty good tempo.
Notes from playtesting with friends and colleagues that run Modern decks:
- Still getting mana screwed a little bit, so I'm wondering if it's worth putting in Abundant Growths into the deck, especially since it allows me to draw a card?
- I also need to focus a bit more on removal since I'm still getting blocked enough that the huge creatures this deck generates aren't getting through in enough time if the game goes on long enough.
- The creatures I can dump out with this are ridiculous. Especially the Lorescale Coatls.
- The Lotus Cobra, Sakura-Tribe Scout, and bounce lands combo is absolutely ridiculous. I got a Seshiro out super early with it a few times.
- Sosuke's Summons is pretty cool, but having more than one in hand or graveyard is unnecessary since it bounces. I had two in deck and got them fairly regularly, took one out to get to 60 finally.
- Nemesis of Mortals seems like it'd be a pain to cast, but it's actually pretty easy to get out and make monstrous since people are running so much removal in Modern and putting things in my graveyard.
So here's what I have now. Suggestions needed for any instants/enchantments/sorceries that would work/work better with this deck since I'm usually clueless on those and just go for the obvious synergy!
Like I said earlier I have every snake in the game and every warrior in the game and a few other ramp cards (although this deck absolutely does not need ramp, I'm often overflowing with mana, it's just the color screw, mostly for blue creatures) I can change out with.
I have tons of instants and sorceries and a few enchantments and artifacts but I'm absolutely clueless what to play with this to make it stronger/faster.
Disclaimer:
I am a warrior fiend. I love the warrior aesthetic in fantasy and it definitely hasn't disappointed in MtG. At first I started out building black/white warrior decks since they are pretty simple, aren't easy to get mana screwed and work well together. But I couldn't help myself and bought every modern legal warrior in the game (wish I was joking)... so I've been building different theme decks. And I love me some themes, the campier/cheesier the better.
I usually start my decks around Chief of the Edge or Chief of the Scale then go from there. But I've been having trouble with a BWG snake warrior deck.
The first part is there simply aren't any snake warrior 1 mana drops. I am definitely not opposed to putting non-warrior cards in my decks, so I started putting some of the shamans and other snakes in. Then I noticed that there are several modern snakes that are quite simply, amazing, but are blue/green (Lorescale Coatl which I used with Ohran Viper, Mystic Snake, Patagia Viper, etc).
I then constructed a deck that was way too large (69 cards) and because of the size was constantly getting mana screwed even with Sakura-Tribe Elders and Evolving Wilds and several dual lands. I then changed to 4x Lotus Cobra and a bunch of bounce lands that made a marvelous combo with Sakura-Tribe Scout since I could simply place the bounced lands right back and get even more mana of my choice from the cobras.
However, since the deck was too large I wasn't even pulling that combo. I removed the Chief of the Edges but left in some of the wonderfully titled Chief of the Scales which also fed into the fact that it prevents many of the creatures from being easily removed by Lightning Bolt.
I did end up doing pretty well in some casual play matchups, but it's lacking focus. It definitely needs some help in either getting a combo off to make a big play or... something. Maybe I just don't get what snake warriors are supposed to do yet.
I have a lot of other cards, every warrior and snake legal in modern I think, and a bunch of other lands and spells and whatnot. I just really want to try to put something together solid here that I can work with versus a lot of different decks.
Please help me get this one down to size and maybe have a better overall strategy of what it wants to do :).
Guile obviously dies, but does it get exiled with Patron's secondary effect and he gets +1/+1 to all his vamps or does Guile's graveyard effect go off and get shuffled back into my library?
Reality Strobe also looks cool.
I also can't remember if it was only for a certain amount of turns or if it had an upkeep cost or what.
Anyone help me out? Been wracking my brain for a while on this heh.
But what I still don't understand is the wording on Gift where it says "return that card".
I understand that when you flicker something on the battlefield or have it change zones it becomes a different instance of what's on the card, like a totally different creature or a different spell.
But Gift doesn't say return that spell or return that creature. It says return that card... how does a card become a different card by changing zones? It's still the same physical object?
I don't know if I'm just getting hung up on the wording, but it's especially confusing.
Just played an EDH match tonight where I had this scenario come up:
I played Auratouched Mage and fished out a Gift of Immortality which resolved.
Then my opponent casts a Doom Blade and says "with Gift of Immortality's ability on the stack I cast Crypt Incursion."
I wasn't sure of that interaction so I said the creature gets returned to the battlefield immediately and he said it didn't "due to the ability being on the stack the creature is therefore in the graveyard which allows me to exile your creature."
But it still didn't make sense to me since the ability said "When enchanted creature dies, return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control" which I took to mean that even though he exiled the creature from the graveyard using the stack once the stack returns to Gift of Immortality's ability the card would return from exile back to the battlefield since it doesn't say that it has to be returned from the graveyard, just that it has to die to return it.
He then said "once it changes zones from the graveyard to exile it changes into an entirely different card, and therefore the ability fizzles even though it doesn't have a clause for returning it from the graveyard."
I still don't understand, could someone enlighten me here?
However, it definitely has some tempo loss if I don't get the right combination of cards and it also has pretty *****ty defense. I'm hoping you guys could help me here to make it faster. It used to be r/w/b so I could run Dismember without taking too much damage from it... so I still have some black mana generation that I need to take out. Although I did have the idea of tossing 4x Chief of the Edge in to help the fling damage out but not sure if worth running 3 colors for it when I don't have fetchlands... I'd definitely go r/w/b again if a good argument is made for it though.
So here's the deck in its current iteration:
10x Mountain
3x Wind-Scarred Crag
2x Bloodfell Caves
3x Nomad Outpost
2x Unknown Shores
Instants (19)
4x Deflecting Palm
4x Lightning Helix
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Searing Blood
3x Soul's Fire
1x Fling
1x Boros Signet
1x Mindcrank
2x Obsidian Battle-Axe
Creatures (16)
2x Flamekin Harbinger
4x Brighthearth Banneret
4x Keldon Marauders
4x Nova Chaser
2x Brion Stoutarm
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Nahiri, the Harbinger
I'm open to any suggestions on how to round this out so I can either recover more easily or burn the enemy even faster while keeping in the deck's theme. I did end up having a few more artifacts and tried to run Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer and Adaptive Automatron but not really sure how to approach that angle.
I have plenty of ways to add trample in green (Rancor and company) or from equipment and the deck is multicolor anyways. I already had hexproof but it was coming from enchantments and equipment which got flickered and processed.
I need these to run in my cat tribal deck
The removals I had were just some instants like Doomblade.
Again, though, he just flickered and processed everything. It really sucked lol.
To note: he was doing pretty much everything on my turn, so always had full mana available on his turn since he was using mana abilities off of creatures.
His deck was based around
Every time I'd go to remove the opponents creature he'd flicker it. I'd go to attack him and he'd block, then flicker his blocking creature, then say that since there's no target for the attacking creature that it does no damage.
I also had a bunch of creatures that I equipped or enchanted to give them hexproof or other effects. He'd simply flicker the enchantments or flicker/process the equipment then use Strangler's ability to keep killing my creatures.
No matter what I did he'd be able to flicker something in response.
Eventually he was able to wipe my board and keep me from playing anything except land.
How the hell do you even play against something like this? I mean I guess you could beat it with a straight burn or aggro/tempo deck but other than that I'm scratching my head. The only other thing I can think of is Torpor Orb /shrugs.
I'll slap something together and test it out and let you guys know how it works!
So I went ahead and narrowed the cards down to 60 and I usually get a pretty good tempo.
Notes from playtesting with friends and colleagues that run Modern decks:
- Still getting mana screwed a little bit, so I'm wondering if it's worth putting in Abundant Growths into the deck, especially since it allows me to draw a card?
- I also need to focus a bit more on removal since I'm still getting blocked enough that the huge creatures this deck generates aren't getting through in enough time if the game goes on long enough.
- The creatures I can dump out with this are ridiculous. Especially the Lorescale Coatls.
- The Lotus Cobra, Sakura-Tribe Scout, and bounce lands combo is absolutely ridiculous. I got a Seshiro out super early with it a few times.
- Sosuke's Summons is pretty cool, but having more than one in hand or graveyard is unnecessary since it bounces. I had two in deck and got them fairly regularly, took one out to get to 60 finally.
- Nemesis of Mortals seems like it'd be a pain to cast, but it's actually pretty easy to get out and make monstrous since people are running so much removal in Modern and putting things in my graveyard.
So here's what I have now. Suggestions needed for any instants/enchantments/sorceries that would work/work better with this deck since I'm usually clueless on those and just go for the obvious synergy!
3x Sakura-Tribe Scout
2x Wasteland Viper
2x Chief of the Scale
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Matsu-Tribe Sniper
3x Lotus Cobra
1x Orochi Ranger
2x Kashi Tribe Elite
2x Ohran Viper
3x Lorescale Coatl
1x Kashi-Tribe Reaver
1x Sosuke, Son of Seshiro
1x Mystic Snake
1x Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro
1x Snake of the Golden Grove
1x Kashi-Tribe Warriors
1x Seshiro the Anointed
1x Hooded Hydra
1x Nemesis of Mortals
1x Patron of the Orochi
1x Hardened Scales
1x Abzan Ascendancy
1x Nature's Will
1x Leyline of Vitality
Enchantment Auras (2)
1x Snake Umbra
1x Serpent Skin
Sorceries (1)
1x Sosuke's Summons
Instants (1)
1x Cobra Trap
Land (21)
4x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
7x Forest
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
2x Selesnya Sanctuary
2x Golgari Rot Farm
2x Simic Growth Chamber
Like I said earlier I have every snake in the game and every warrior in the game and a few other ramp cards (although this deck absolutely does not need ramp, I'm often overflowing with mana, it's just the color screw, mostly for blue creatures) I can change out with.
I have tons of instants and sorceries and a few enchantments and artifacts but I'm absolutely clueless what to play with this to make it stronger/faster.
Disclaimer:
I am a warrior fiend. I love the warrior aesthetic in fantasy and it definitely hasn't disappointed in MtG. At first I started out building black/white warrior decks since they are pretty simple, aren't easy to get mana screwed and work well together. But I couldn't help myself and bought every modern legal warrior in the game (wish I was joking)... so I've been building different theme decks. And I love me some themes, the campier/cheesier the better.
I usually start my decks around Chief of the Edge or Chief of the Scale then go from there. But I've been having trouble with a BWG snake warrior deck.
The first part is there simply aren't any snake warrior 1 mana drops. I am definitely not opposed to putting non-warrior cards in my decks, so I started putting some of the shamans and other snakes in. Then I noticed that there are several modern snakes that are quite simply, amazing, but are blue/green (Lorescale Coatl which I used with Ohran Viper, Mystic Snake, Patagia Viper, etc).
I then constructed a deck that was way too large (69 cards) and because of the size was constantly getting mana screwed even with Sakura-Tribe Elders and Evolving Wilds and several dual lands. I then changed to 4x Lotus Cobra and a bunch of bounce lands that made a marvelous combo with Sakura-Tribe Scout since I could simply place the bounced lands right back and get even more mana of my choice from the cobras.
However, since the deck was too large I wasn't even pulling that combo. I removed the Chief of the Edges but left in some of the wonderfully titled Chief of the Scales which also fed into the fact that it prevents many of the creatures from being easily removed by Lightning Bolt.
I did end up doing pretty well in some casual play matchups, but it's lacking focus. It definitely needs some help in either getting a combo off to make a big play or... something. Maybe I just don't get what snake warriors are supposed to do yet.
4x Sakura-Tribe Scout
4x Wasteland Viper
4x Lotus Cobra
2x Chief of the Scale (Get it?)
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Matsu-Tribe Sniper
1x Orochi Ranger
2x Kashi-Tribe Elite
3x Lorescale Coatl
2x Ohran Viper
2x Mystic Snake
1x Sosuke, Son of Seshiro
1x Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro
1x Kashi-Tribe Reaver
1x Kashi-Tribe Warriors
1x Seshiro the Anointed
1x Snake of the Golden Grove
1x Hooded Hydra
1x Nemesis of Mortals
1x Patron of the Orochi
1x Hardened Scales (lulz)
1x Nature's Will
1x Abzan Ascendancy
1x Leyline of Vitality (again, to stop removal shenanigans)
Enchantment Auras (2)
1x Serpent Skin (Putting snake skin on a snake)
1x Snake Umbra (Putting your snakes inside snakes!)
Sorceries (2)
2x Sosuke's Summons
Instants (1)
1x Cobra Trap
Artifacts (1)
1x Obsidian Battle-Axe
Lands (23)
4x Oran-Rief the Vastwood
2x Simic Growth Chamber
2x Golgari Rot Farm
2x Selesnya Sanctuary
2x Evolving Wilds
7x Forest
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
I have a lot of other cards, every warrior and snake legal in modern I think, and a bunch of other lands and spells and whatnot. I just really want to try to put something together solid here that I can work with versus a lot of different decks.
Please help me get this one down to size and maybe have a better overall strategy of what it wants to do :).