Only 33 more cards until Blue players everywhere will complain about getting nothing in the set while U/X control eventually ends up taking top slots in some capacity. Oh no! Mono-U isn't able to crush every single deck! Again! Darnit!
This seeker is sweet. Forbidden Orchard is pretty sweet with this, but I do think this will miss the cut in Vampires. You're tailored to have bigger guys than them (Nocturnus trumps an Honor of the Pure almost every time), so you shouldn't have much difficulty with aggro matchups. However, outside of Duress and possibly Sign in Blood for cards, control seems to be able to pick that deck apart - this doesn't really help around that much.
The only summoners that this thing will be a bane for are 12 year olds trying to cast Stampeding Rhino.
Essence Scatter is a 2-drop - it can hit a lot more things (and give control a small boost against aggro) by being so cheap. This thing, as it were, probably won't see Constructed play, as it will be competing with - at the very least - Mindbreak Trap for the 4cc counter slot - and the Trap is more useful, for having the ability to up-end Cascade, deal with a (slightly) late Great Sable Stag, and a few other, more crappy uses.
This thing is a house in Limited. Granted, it's a hair slow - turn 4 would have been much better - but every time this guy hits, he's going to do something positive. He's either 2 in the air (albeit an extremely overcosted 2 in the air), or he's 5 toughness, which as said before - gives Blue an answer to Green's random fat, as well as helps you stave off other fliers as well.
This is the epitome of Limited fodder, but this is definitely not a 23rd card or anything.
I thought about going off on a bender/tantrum/rampage, but then I realized I was bored with being irrational
To a point I agree. it used to be pretty tough to build a good aggro deck like suicide black or RDW, but it's getting to the point where aggro has been reduced to (play creature, eat removal, play creature, eat removal, ad nauseam, and I don't mean the card) and the cards being printed make aggro such a blatantly obvious choice that the strategy is getting sucked right out of it. It used to be all about finding the gems in the trash bin and putting together something explosive and unexpected, almost like a combo deck. Now it's just par for the course.
my issue with the card has sort of deviated, yes it's obviously a blatant power up, but it's not that unreasonable at all really. it's the pattern it shows with the other creatures being spoiled that disturbs me
Meh, I just quote everything manually
Scatter/Negate are solid but only to a point. if you draw the wrong situational counter for the wrong situation, you're screwed, plain and simple. It could be three turns before you draw an answer to that Warren Instigator or Primalcrux, and by then it'll be game over. As I said before, one gap in MUC's defenses, and it can spell the end of a matchup, that's why Scatter/Negate, while good on their own used as removal or an answer to a common spell like Wrath, in a permission deck they're just a big weak link.
I think Pickles was the last Mono-Blue deck that saw any top tier play, at least to my knowledge (which regarding standard, isn't much).
I guess my biggest problem with the way things stand right now, is that blue is the only color that isn't playable on it's own. Red has goblins, black has vamps, white gets weenies and green has ramp, splashing may be better, but at least they're reasonably viable. Blue on the other hand seems to have no strategy of it's own. Counters are being tossed out the window, so what's left? Mill? yuck, mill is awful even with splashing.
Blue is certainly going to be a splash in some decks, which makes me happy, and hopefully blue gets some nice stuff buried in the 140ish cards left to be spoiled, but to a lot of blue players, things look pretty bleak right about now
I actually really like the Scatter/Negate dilemma... I've found that Mana Leak was always a hard counter early game (one of the things mono-U so desperately needs), but this new split dynamic really makes it feel like you have to go to 1UU for a solid counter. Granted, counterspells seem to be about the only thing getting powered down (on average), but there's always another Cryptic-something somewhere.
To be fair, Pickles was good, but was also 3 years ago (if I'm counting the years right here, might have only been 2, 2 1/2).
And lastly, I mean, even as someone who prefers more board-based aggro-control lists, I do agree Blue still needs something to be viable on its own. I'm pulling for something decent at the 1U/UU slot, but odds are, Blue is a supplementary color again this season.
Heh, thanks. I do the MP1 thing too, but sometimes, if you're playing with people in Standard (who tend to be testing for real-life, of course), they'll get a little more anal about things like that.
Anyhoo, I think too much more posting here gives off weird vibes. I'm going to go hide in the Custom Cards Forum.
And so far, MTGSal has been good to me. They let me write for them, and most of the people who responded weren't ***hats. Yay!
Hey! Welcome to MTGSal, or, the forums, or, actually posting on them.
I think I got that one right.
For the record, (sadly), TeknoLink has it right - most people on MWS don't know the rules, use etiquette, and hell - a lot of them disconnect for no reason other than bad sportsmanship.
the only thing I can think of is just a little patience with the phases. Other players tend to like when you don't just sit in the draw step or Main Phase 1 while you do your combat and whatnot... but I've seen it go both ways on many occasions.
Anyways, hope you enjoy your stay, despite the fact I'm still fairly new here myself (speaking from a posting standpoint).
Agreed - this is like the epitome of what I expect out of Mythic Rares.
No evasion isn't super relevant - if you're playing this guy, it's not likely because the bgigest, best, or necessarily best guy you could put at the slot (he is REALLY mana-intensive)... but that said, that effect could be back-breaking in a control mirror... if you don't mind that huge investment.
I realize this is a bit late to get in, but I wanted to commend the author. I read Bill Simmons frequently myself, and found that his style - or your take on it - went very well with his article. The only thing missing was one of his patented "let's-replace-the-spacebar-with-a-dash-for-a-few-seconds" names for something.... and bit of his wit.
Although, I didn't see many bad jokes either, so... call it uncharted waters? I'm not saying it wasn't funny, it just seemed a bit more factual than entertaining, at times.
Still, I liked it dude. I don't Cube, practically ever, but articles like this one always remind me that it is definitely worth a serious look - when money allows.
for starters, I never said that. Creatures like this certainly contribute, but aren't the root of the problem, nor are they that difficult to deal with.
Truthfully, I completely agree, even if comparing a common to a mythic is a bit of a stretch.
While I completely loathe the nerf job blue has been getting, I don't think it should be restored to it's former levels of pure insanity. I would however, like it to be PLAYABLE. So far, between Alara and M10 blue is utter garbage. Granted ZEN hasn't been fully spoiled but with Mindbreak at mythic (sorry, doesn't deserve it) and crapheaps like Lorthos being spoiled, I really have no reason to be optimistic.
I got into playing blue because of Mono-U Control, because it requires a very deep level of concentration and a lot of strategizing to play. Contrary to popular belief, blue's level of play extends far beyond just sitting behind a counter wall. you have to know exactly what is worth countering and what isn't you need to know when to save your 2 remaining counters and when to burn them. One wrong play can wedge a gap in your defenses and get you smashed to pieces. It's very mentally taxing, and that's the part of it I enjoy the most.
I'm really getting sick of aggro decks running all over everything with no resistance. even if a deck has removal if you don't draw it you're dead, so you have to run so much removal you have almost no room for fun/utility spells.
Strangely enough I do like playing green, a lot in fact, but it's mostly wacky combo decks like Tooth and Nail or Manaplasm Pump, so getting steamrollered by aggro before I can mount a defense completely sucks. Sure I could run fog spells, but I'd have to buy them by the bucketful and they take up space in the deck that could be used for other cards.
If there's one ridiculously fast aggro deck in your meta, that's one thing, but with every color but blue getting hyper fast aggro cards, there's going to be metric butt-tons of aggro decks running rampant, every deck will need a billion removal spells, and that just doesn't seem all that fun to me.
I agree that green should get a day in the sun, it's just getting a bit insane all around.
First, I have to thank you for actually making respectable points rather than bash me when you disagreed.
I find that aggro is harder to play than control... depending. My logic here is that aggro is proactive, control is reactive - the aggro player must also plan for a combat step (usually), whereas a control player doesn't have that issue (at least, not nearly as much).
Control, on the other hand, requires a little more intuitiveness in deck design and bit more knowledge of your deck (second only to combo, of course).
And to be completely fair, this isn't better than Baneslayer or any other "current" finishers (not that you said that, but...) - however, as has been oft-spoken so far, it will allow Ramp decks an opportunity to get more of a leg up on permission decks.
Regarding the "blue has gotten bad things" quote (and sorry, I'm terrible with that quote engine, that's on me)... I think that Mindbreak Trap is, as you said - good, very good, but not format warping (and is probably inferior power-wise to the Stag) and that outside of that, Essence Scatter and Negate are both very solid cards (albeit, not against this guy).
As a closing thought, I think having to splash a color isn't bad - again, control is kind for deck design, and is usually the deck that sports all kinds of odd numbers. This will make control decks a bit more varied, which I'm always ok with.
True, there may not be a mono-U control list that is viable, but to be fair, I don't think it's been even tier-2 in Standard for a long time (again, not that you said that either, but just as a backup point to the having-to-splash argument).
I've always really liked the flavor of Kamigawa (and that's about it), and I've always wanted to see that battle play out on a larger scale.
That said, this would be tough to work given only one or two colors and only two decks.
My second vote would go to two Measure of Wickedness decks. They each try to exploit that card (probably a 3-of at best given that it's a Theme Deck)... but they do it with two different styles or color combinations, until eventually, one of the players ends up with 2 or 3 Measures going off on him in one turn. I have two of these decks designed solely to play against each other, and it's a lot of fun... but probably harder to market than "ELVES VERSUS GOLBINS!!!!!"
To hear people honestly believe that this card - and hell, even others like it - are causing the downfall of Blue? That's ridiculous.
First of all, creatures like this ARE what Green should be going. What's the point of having Craw Wurm in Green if Red still gets Bogardan Hellkite? The simple fact is... Green is supposed to have big, big guys. Up until recently, that meant other colors get a slightly smaller creature - we're talking a 1-point P/T decrease or so - in exchange for things like Flying, which are clearly better.
It's about time they start making Green fat FEEL fat. Chameleon Colossus was good. Cloudthresher was good. This card isn't quite on that level, but it's certainly going to be a pain somewhere.
And for blue players who are still sitting there whining, that's too bad. When you say "blue is dying", what you really mean is "no longer can I sit on a deck with 8 counterspells, 4 wrath/day of judgment and some card draw and beat almost everything in the meta".
Blue has, for a long time now, been the most powerful color. Maybe that's why everyone thinks it's so good, it's the best color, etc. etc. If any color deserves hate, it's Blue. And Green fat hasn't been able to keep up with the increase of power-level elsewhere - removal, burn spells, what have you - so I'm glad they're finally trying to push competitive fat in Green.
Playtest the stupid things before you complain. I've been playtesting on MWS since the spoiler was finished (very nice work this season btw)... and they're not bad at all. We've been testing aggro post-m10, and we still run 4 of these in almost every list.
Also, as far as the "aggro won't want these but control will arfharf how unfair", just consider that aggro is getting boatloads of new tools in m10, and more importantly, Wrath of God is gone. I will trade a slightly shakier manabase for immunity to God on any given day.
I've been playtesting Demigod, but the only thing I can really say is playing him will slow up your deck just a tad. He's really good, but Revelliark still beats the crap out of you. However, if you're playing any form of Red Aggro (by that I mean Red + a splash at best), I still think he's the best late game card you have.
This seeker is sweet. Forbidden Orchard is pretty sweet with this, but I do think this will miss the cut in Vampires. You're tailored to have bigger guys than them (Nocturnus trumps an Honor of the Pure almost every time), so you shouldn't have much difficulty with aggro matchups. However, outside of Duress and possibly Sign in Blood for cards, control seems to be able to pick that deck apart - this doesn't really help around that much.
Essence Scatter is a 2-drop - it can hit a lot more things (and give control a small boost against aggro) by being so cheap. This thing, as it were, probably won't see Constructed play, as it will be competing with - at the very least - Mindbreak Trap for the 4cc counter slot - and the Trap is more useful, for having the ability to up-end Cascade, deal with a (slightly) late Great Sable Stag, and a few other, more crappy uses.
Limited? This thing? Get out of here. =)
This is the epitome of Limited fodder, but this is definitely not a 23rd card or anything.
I actually really like the Scatter/Negate dilemma... I've found that Mana Leak was always a hard counter early game (one of the things mono-U so desperately needs), but this new split dynamic really makes it feel like you have to go to 1UU for a solid counter. Granted, counterspells seem to be about the only thing getting powered down (on average), but there's always another Cryptic-something somewhere.
To be fair, Pickles was good, but was also 3 years ago (if I'm counting the years right here, might have only been 2, 2 1/2).
And lastly, I mean, even as someone who prefers more board-based aggro-control lists, I do agree Blue still needs something to be viable on its own. I'm pulling for something decent at the 1U/UU slot, but odds are, Blue is a supplementary color again this season.
Anyhoo, I think too much more posting here gives off weird vibes. I'm going to go hide in the Custom Cards Forum.
And so far, MTGSal has been good to me. They let me write for them, and most of the people who responded weren't ***hats. Yay!
I think I got that one right.
For the record, (sadly), TeknoLink has it right - most people on MWS don't know the rules, use etiquette, and hell - a lot of them disconnect for no reason other than bad sportsmanship.
the only thing I can think of is just a little patience with the phases. Other players tend to like when you don't just sit in the draw step or Main Phase 1 while you do your combat and whatnot... but I've seen it go both ways on many occasions.
Anyways, hope you enjoy your stay, despite the fact I'm still fairly new here myself (speaking from a posting standpoint).
No evasion isn't super relevant - if you're playing this guy, it's not likely because the bgigest, best, or necessarily best guy you could put at the slot (he is REALLY mana-intensive)... but that said, that effect could be back-breaking in a control mirror... if you don't mind that huge investment.
Probably only casual, but not that that's bad.
Although, I didn't see many bad jokes either, so... call it uncharted waters? I'm not saying it wasn't funny, it just seemed a bit more factual than entertaining, at times.
Still, I liked it dude. I don't Cube, practically ever, but articles like this one always remind me that it is definitely worth a serious look - when money allows.
Good read.
First, I have to thank you for actually making respectable points rather than bash me when you disagreed.
I find that aggro is harder to play than control... depending. My logic here is that aggro is proactive, control is reactive - the aggro player must also plan for a combat step (usually), whereas a control player doesn't have that issue (at least, not nearly as much).
Control, on the other hand, requires a little more intuitiveness in deck design and bit more knowledge of your deck (second only to combo, of course).
And to be completely fair, this isn't better than Baneslayer or any other "current" finishers (not that you said that, but...) - however, as has been oft-spoken so far, it will allow Ramp decks an opportunity to get more of a leg up on permission decks.
Regarding the "blue has gotten bad things" quote (and sorry, I'm terrible with that quote engine, that's on me)... I think that Mindbreak Trap is, as you said - good, very good, but not format warping (and is probably inferior power-wise to the Stag) and that outside of that, Essence Scatter and Negate are both very solid cards (albeit, not against this guy).
As a closing thought, I think having to splash a color isn't bad - again, control is kind for deck design, and is usually the deck that sports all kinds of odd numbers. This will make control decks a bit more varied, which I'm always ok with.
True, there may not be a mono-U control list that is viable, but to be fair, I don't think it's been even tier-2 in Standard for a long time (again, not that you said that either, but just as a backup point to the having-to-splash argument).
I've always really liked the flavor of Kamigawa (and that's about it), and I've always wanted to see that battle play out on a larger scale.
That said, this would be tough to work given only one or two colors and only two decks.
My second vote would go to two Measure of Wickedness decks. They each try to exploit that card (probably a 3-of at best given that it's a Theme Deck)... but they do it with two different styles or color combinations, until eventually, one of the players ends up with 2 or 3 Measures going off on him in one turn. I have two of these decks designed solely to play against each other, and it's a lot of fun... but probably harder to market than "ELVES VERSUS GOLBINS!!!!!"
To hear people honestly believe that this card - and hell, even others like it - are causing the downfall of Blue? That's ridiculous.
First of all, creatures like this ARE what Green should be going. What's the point of having Craw Wurm in Green if Red still gets Bogardan Hellkite? The simple fact is... Green is supposed to have big, big guys. Up until recently, that meant other colors get a slightly smaller creature - we're talking a 1-point P/T decrease or so - in exchange for things like Flying, which are clearly better.
It's about time they start making Green fat FEEL fat. Chameleon Colossus was good. Cloudthresher was good. This card isn't quite on that level, but it's certainly going to be a pain somewhere.
And for blue players who are still sitting there whining, that's too bad. When you say "blue is dying", what you really mean is "no longer can I sit on a deck with 8 counterspells, 4 wrath/day of judgment and some card draw and beat almost everything in the meta".
Blue has, for a long time now, been the most powerful color. Maybe that's why everyone thinks it's so good, it's the best color, etc. etc. If any color deserves hate, it's Blue. And Green fat hasn't been able to keep up with the increase of power-level elsewhere - removal, burn spells, what have you - so I'm glad they're finally trying to push competitive fat in Green.
Anyhoo, good read.
EDIT: What the f**k is up with the boards? Ack.
Playtest the stupid things before you complain. I've been playtesting on MWS since the spoiler was finished (very nice work this season btw)... and they're not bad at all. We've been testing aggro post-m10, and we still run 4 of these in almost every list.
Also, as far as the "aggro won't want these but control will arfharf how unfair", just consider that aggro is getting boatloads of new tools in m10, and more importantly, Wrath of God is gone. I will trade a slightly shakier manabase for immunity to God on any given day.
Besides, playing basics is Anathemancer tech!
Depends on if your decks should make it that far.