+1 for ornithopter. He's excellent at enabling Ninjitsu every turn.
Strange, I had quite the opposite feeling with Ninjas. My bread and butter ninjas are Ninja of the Deep Hours and Throat Slitter. I go for singletons of the bigger ninjas to be fetched with Higure, so they don't clog up my opening hands with unplayable cards. Don't forget about Okiba-Gang Shinobi; he wrecks control decks all by himself, and has quite a bit of power.
My go-to enablers other than 'thopter are Thalakos Seer and Augury Owl. I suppose the Strix is better than the Seer, though.
Sakashima's Student is a card that i'm not really sure what i think about it, i've had mixed experiences with it, and i always wanted someone to share their experienses with me about it, 'cause i can't make a decision over it.
Walker is really an awsome card, specially in decks where you run counters/bouncers. Refilling your hand with ninjas unable to attack + looking at your opponent's hand (predicting his next moves) + knowing where to waste your counters (since there you'll know cards in his hand) is priceless.
I run the deck in a mono-u version, so the build gets different.
The biggest concern on this deck is its beating power, and that's where, sometimes, Sakashima's Students matter.
8x Enablers is the right number.
DR + Hymn + Duress/Thoughtseize is very explosive and solid when the deck strategy back it up, like running Tombstalker for example, otherwise, it hits opponent as hard as it hits you (you waste 3 cards and takes out 3 cards from opponent). In the end, this kind of discard has nothing to do with Rock, and its resilience.
Spiritmonger is a 5cmc creature, too slow when you have far better and faster options like Doran that, as i've stated before, for 3 mana its 5/5 and makes other creatures more threatful like BoP, Vampire Nighthawk, Spellskite, Treefolk Harbinger. Regen is not more that relevant nowadays after so many exile effects were printed on Magic cards.
STE concern is that with a smooth mana curve, topping 3cmc, you won't need ramp, so this spot will be better covered with more relevant cards like Qasali Pridemage, Tidehollow Sculler, Gaddock Teeg (meta choice), Putrid Leech, and others. Also, if BoP is not enough on ramping and fixing, Treefolk Harbinger is always an option, specially if Doran is part of your team.
Pernicious Deed do work as a general removal, but have 2 major flaws: 1) its an enchantment, and can be answered before activation, whilst many other mass removal can't; 2) to instant activation, you need 1BG + all mana need to removal the cards wanted, which means its a very late game card, without a solid ramp, while you have tons of faster cards. If you get forced to clean the board, Rock is not a deck of fast recover vs many others like WW, Gobbos, Elves. But, if you like the card, it can stay.
If you run mass removal, Dauntless Escort is a card that might change tides in your favor.
To support black mana base, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is an outstanding card.
If you do choose to keep the top deck cmc at 3, Unearth becomes a great card choice.
No, you cannot use sakura-tribe elder to fetch an overgrown tomb. While the tomb has 2 basic land types, it is NOT a basic land. You will need to use something that will specifically fetch a swamp or forest.
True.
I didn't realized that he was meaning grabbing it with STE.
He needs a card that fetches a swamp or forest as you stated, like Treefolk Harbinger.
So true, but i really don't believe him.
When you print fetchlands, dual lands, mana fixing artifacts, or such, you're supporting multicolor decks, moving players towards multicolor decks.
Take that out, push Devotion, and print mostly mono color cards, you get a mono color meta, since multicolor decks will fail due a lack of mana support.
I can't recall when was the last time Standard was filled with only mono color competitive decks (at least post MM block).
If that happens, it will be something kind of new to the game
If you don't run 4-of, odds are that you won't have legendary creatures stuck into your hand.
All this deck needs is one of each of the family out: Sachi, Sosuke, Seshiro.
That's why i run 3x Sachi & Sosuke, 2x Seshiro, and ways to grab them (Time of Need, Commune with Nature, Sensei's Divining Top)
Kashi-Tribe Elite doesn't negate the legend rule, nor make the effects of Mirror null or void. With Mirror out, creatures will still remain legendary, but there will be possible to play more than 1. Kashi-Tribe Elite will only protect legendary critters against spells targeting them.
I agree with Some_Guy123.
My playgroup uses the common(26)/uncommon(18)/rare(10) limitation when playing with guys not used to our decks play level.
But i think the idea of Som_Guy123 better, put points and let players free to build around those points.
I believe that idea should really solve your problem.
Yes, Bolt of Keranos is there for the scry. 3dmg + scrying for 3cmc is very valuable in a deck with no draw spells. About Rakdos Return, i dislike it because i believe the burn side is more important than the discard side, so i prefer 3 dmg and scry, than 1 dmg and discard for the same 3 cmc.
On Ragemonger subject, by my playtesting, 1 out is enough to do the job once the average cmc of the deck is 3. So drawing multiples Ragemongers is not something desirable, and that's why i run 3.
Thoughtseize is indeed a better option over Duress.
I really don't like your support, you should focus on burn, with minor hand control (Thoughtseize).
Didgeridoo only shines in a counterspell based enviroment, otherwise, except about Warcaller, paying 3 to cast it eot of opponent doesn't matter that much.
Mass removal with 2 damage works great with this deck.
+23 Lands
So 4 slots to play around.
If you go standard, i'd keep that concept of creature base with burn support cards, some 2 damage mass removal and targeted discard like Thoughtseize.
Graveyard hate and Indestructible creature should be covered only on sideboard.
Didgeridoo is not great in this deck since almost every Minotaurs top 3cmc, with Ragemonger out, its even faster. Also they get haste from Warcaller.
I know it'd avoid counters, but i my opinion, it doesn't worth it, i prefer to waste support slots with burn.
Rollick is a bit high on cmc but provides mass removal + pump.
Deathbellow Raider underperforms, maybe other Minotaur might take its spot.
Same here, bout Orni, Seer, Owl, and blue ninjas
I do love: Ninja of the Deep Hours (the best), Mistblade Shinobi (limited. Relevant vs critter decks), Walker of Secret Ways (key. makes all engine rotate), Throat Slitter (same as Mistblade), Skullsnatcher (grave hate tech), Higure, the Still Wind (great).
Sakashima's Student is a card that i'm not really sure what i think about it, i've had mixed experiences with it, and i always wanted someone to share their experienses with me about it, 'cause i can't make a decision over it.
Walker is really an awsome card, specially in decks where you run counters/bouncers. Refilling your hand with ninjas unable to attack + looking at your opponent's hand (predicting his next moves) + knowing where to waste your counters (since there you'll know cards in his hand) is priceless.
I run the deck in a mono-u version, so the build gets different.
The biggest concern on this deck is its beating power, and that's where, sometimes, Sakashima's Students matter.
8x Enablers is the right number.
Spiritmonger is a 5cmc creature, too slow when you have far better and faster options like Doran that, as i've stated before, for 3 mana its 5/5 and makes other creatures more threatful like BoP, Vampire Nighthawk, Spellskite, Treefolk Harbinger. Regen is not more that relevant nowadays after so many exile effects were printed on Magic cards.
STE concern is that with a smooth mana curve, topping 3cmc, you won't need ramp, so this spot will be better covered with more relevant cards like Qasali Pridemage, Tidehollow Sculler, Gaddock Teeg (meta choice), Putrid Leech, and others. Also, if BoP is not enough on ramping and fixing, Treefolk Harbinger is always an option, specially if Doran is part of your team.
Pernicious Deed do work as a general removal, but have 2 major flaws: 1) its an enchantment, and can be answered before activation, whilst many other mass removal can't; 2) to instant activation, you need 1BG + all mana need to removal the cards wanted, which means its a very late game card, without a solid ramp, while you have tons of faster cards. If you get forced to clean the board, Rock is not a deck of fast recover vs many others like WW, Gobbos, Elves. But, if you like the card, it can stay.
If you run mass removal, Dauntless Escort is a card that might change tides in your favor.
To support black mana base, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is an outstanding card.
If you do choose to keep the top deck cmc at 3, Unearth becomes a great card choice.
04 Verdant Catacombs
04 Llanowar Wastes
02 Swamp
02 Forest
02 Overgrown Tomb
02 Treetop Village
02 Murmuring Bosk
02 Temple Garden
01 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
01 Mistveil Plains
04 Birds of Paradise
04 Vampire Nighthawk
03 Treefolk Harbinger
03 Doran, the Siege Tower
03 Eternal Witness
03 Tidehollow Sculler
01 Dauntless Escort
01 Qasali Pridemage
04 Inquisition of Kozilek
04 Unearth
03 Path to Exile
03 Putrefy
02 Pernicious Deed
True.
I didn't realized that he was meaning grabbing it with STE.
He needs a card that fetches a swamp or forest as you stated, like Treefolk Harbinger.
Personally Doran and Escort i find very interesting to put in.
Some insert Treefolk Harbinger to fetch lands (any dual or Murmuring Bosk) or Doran.
Yeap, Overgrown Tomb is "fetchable"
Avoid: Dark Ritual (only works on mono-B), Hymn to Tourach (use targeted discard), Phyrexian Arena (you can gain CA by other ways), Pernicious Deed (slow), Sakura-Tribe Elder (lacking), Spiritmonger (slow).
When you print fetchlands, dual lands, mana fixing artifacts, or such, you're supporting multicolor decks, moving players towards multicolor decks.
Take that out, push Devotion, and print mostly mono color cards, you get a mono color meta, since multicolor decks will fail due a lack of mana support.
If that happens, it will be something kind of new to the game
All this deck needs is one of each of the family out: Sachi, Sosuke, Seshiro.
That's why i run 3x Sachi & Sosuke, 2x Seshiro, and ways to grab them (Time of Need, Commune with Nature, Sensei's Divining Top)
Kashi-Tribe Elite doesn't negate the legend rule, nor make the effects of Mirror null or void. With Mirror out, creatures will still remain legendary, but there will be possible to play more than 1. Kashi-Tribe Elite will only protect legendary critters against spells targeting them.
21 Island
03 Riptide Laboratory
CREATURES (20)
04 Sage of Epityr
04 Cursecatcher
04 Patron Wizard
04 Voidmage Prodigy
03 Information Dealer
01 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
04 Brainstorm
04 Counterspell
04 Boomerang
04 Diviner's Wand
My playgroup uses the common(26)/uncommon(18)/rare(10) limitation when playing with guys not used to our decks play level.
But i think the idea of Som_Guy123 better, put points and let players free to build around those points.
I believe that idea should really solve your problem.
Kashi-Tribe Elite is a must go, they protect your legendaries. 4-of.
My take on Legendary Snakes of Kamigawa is:
19 Forest
02 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
01 Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper
SNAKES (20)
04 Orochi Sustainer
04 Sakura-Tribe Elder
04 Kashi-Tribe Elite
03 Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro
03 Sosuke, Son of Seshiro
02 Seshiro the Anointed
04 Commune with Nature
04 Time of Need
03 Sosuke's Summons
03 Sensei's Divining Top
02 Orochi Hatchery
02 Wear Away
If you go 5 colors, Scion of the Ur-Dragon is a very nice dragon dumper.
Yes, Bolt of Keranos is there for the scry. 3dmg + scrying for 3cmc is very valuable in a deck with no draw spells. About Rakdos Return, i dislike it because i believe the burn side is more important than the discard side, so i prefer 3 dmg and scry, than 1 dmg and discard for the same 3 cmc.
On Ragemonger subject, by my playtesting, 1 out is enough to do the job once the average cmc of the deck is 3. So drawing multiples Ragemongers is not something desirable, and that's why i run 3.
Thoughtseize is indeed a better option over Duress.
Didgeridoo only shines in a counterspell based enviroment, otherwise, except about Warcaller, paying 3 to cast it eot of opponent doesn't matter that much.
Mass removal with 2 damage works great with this deck.
Bellow is what i consider the core:
04 Rageblood Shaman
04 Kragma Warcaller
03 Felhide Petrifier
03 Ragemonger
04 Incinerate
04 Thoughtseize
03 Pyroclasm
+23 Lands
So 4 slots to play around.
If you go standard, i'd keep that concept of creature base with burn support cards, some 2 damage mass removal and targeted discard like Thoughtseize.
Graveyard hate and Indestructible creature should be covered only on sideboard.
06 Mountain
05 Swamp
04 Blood Crypt
04 Temple of Malice
04 Rakdos Guildgate
04 Gnarled Scarhide
04 Deathbellow Raider
04 Rageblood Shaman
04 Kragma Warcaller
03 Ragemonger
03 Felhide Petrifier
04 Magma Spray
04 Lightning Bolt
04 Duress
03 Rollick of Abandon
Didgeridoo is not great in this deck since almost every Minotaurs top 3cmc, with Ragemonger out, its even faster. Also they get haste from Warcaller.
I know it'd avoid counters, but i my opinion, it doesn't worth it, i prefer to waste support slots with burn.
Rollick is a bit high on cmc but provides mass removal + pump.
Deathbellow Raider underperforms, maybe other Minotaur might take its spot.
04 Gnarled Scarhide
04 Kragma Warcaller
04 Rageblood Shaman
03 Ragemonger
03 Felhide Petrifier
02 Felhide Spiritbinder
01 Mogis, God of Slaughter
//SUPPORT (17)
04 Duress
04 Magma Spray
04 Magma Jet
04 Lightning Strike
01 Drown in Sorrow
07 Swamp
06 Mountain
04 Temple of Malice
04 Blood Crypt
01 Mana Confluence
04 Hero's Downfall
04 Bolt of Keranos
04 Thoughtseize
03 Drown in Sorrow
I'm still unsure over Fellhide Spiritbinder