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  • posted a message on U/B(x) Control
    Quote from axman »


    I agree. On the other hand, I feel like a major issue is the land count. One of the strengths of the Sulti-list (in my opinion) is it can play less lands and get more utility thanks to Satyr Wayfinder. The list that placed 1st at the open only ran 25 lands (effectively 29 with wayfinder).

    It is my own personal opinion that if you're going to run x2 ugins, you need access to at least 28 "equivalent" lands. Unfortunately that many lands can make the deck cumbersome at times.

    That is why I asked about Monastery Siege I am simply wondering if it can replace a land and function similarly to how desolate lighthouse functioned in Innistrad control decks.


    Just like you, I was still figuring out why it is running on 28 lands now while the typical control deck lands as far as I know could go as low as 26, it might be the inclusion of fetchlands where it does make sense to increase to fill graveyard and feed Delve spells without actually being able to fail pulling a land out of the top of your deck after cracking your fetches. Other than that, the less-land functionality that were observed on Sultai deck with Satyr Wayfinder could be as close as putting a Divination.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on U/B(x) Control
    Quote from axman »
    What do you think of monetary siege?


    Regarding Monastery Siege, it reminds me of Desolate Lighthouse on one side, and like a pseudo- Defense Grid in the other side. On its 2 functions:

    (Khans) - in this deck we're using Dig Through Time already almost every time we need something specific. While it moves us deep in our library and building delve fodders in the process, its not that deep and that many to feed our graveyard on an instance that you need it to be, it didn't give us any card advantage at all when it triggers and let alone if you just top deck this, this is really a bad news on top, while Divination always ups your hand by 1 every time you resolve it.

    (Dragons) - red/X decks are the most decks that targets us anyways and you might rather resolve something like Jorubai Murk Lurker rather than casting that any time on that match up. It won't stop Thoughtseize as they can wreck and steal something on our hand earlier anyways, Hero's Downfall or whatever removals they may have looks really bad already against us so I don't think there isn't any much of incentive using this.

    That being said, there isn't much to root on it, that outweighs or make your plays even better.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on U/B(x) Control
    Hi everyone, just back from a long hibernation. I was excited that I can finally put together some real UB control deck.



    I choose to try making my updated configuration more simple and basic at first, with the hate only on game 2 versus aggro decks. Fully taking advantage of a Draw-Go route.
    It's kinda tempting too using Drown in Sorrow main deck, as I see that we are easily get overextended with creatures for not having Drown in Sorrow game 1.

    Aggressive decks that use instant protection/regeneration might still pose a big problem, that being said, I want to ask which match ups do you guys encounter/foresee to be difficult now adding Fate Reforged on the standard pool?

    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Question & Answer] Playing against B(x) Devotinon
    Quote from aegais
    Hi guys,

    I'm having a lot of trouble facing this matchup. It seems that every detention sphere is so important in this matchup, and I'm sometimes just overwhelmed by how much card advantage they can get.

    Is Underworld Connections an top priority for d-sphere? What about Erebos? What I'm finding is that it's easy for them to just stick a Desecration Demon and wait until I either use a sweeper or one of my precious removal spells, then put on another threat that I have to deal with. Getting hit twice by the same Gray Merchant via whip is always a pain.

    It only gets worse against the B(g) matchup. The golgari charm and abrupt decay is just really good against my d-spheres, which is almost always aimed towards their card advantage engines.



    Any tips - sideboarding, overall mentality, useful tips would be great!


    There comes a time when disrupting their Underworld Connection seems not enough, plus expect your Detention Spheres to be discarded most of the time. We badly need the help of Pithing Needle in this match up. If I we're to ask casting Sphinx's Revelation is where you want to be in this match up, or at the very least, Jace, Architect of Thought to outcard them. One card that is very debatable for me to deal with is Nightveil Specter, of course its an auto-dealt with generally speaking. But there are times that we need to save Detention Sphere for better threats they have like Erebos, God of the Dead. Whip the least, and Desecration Demon is somehow being handled nicely by Azorius Charm (if you are like me who leaves a 0-2 copies post board). Supreme Verdict mostly one for one their creatures, and Mutavault can be very annoying. Not to mention Pack Rat demands either a Detention Sphere/Supreme Verdict as well, so gaining a lot of cards here is the key. Not really a specific answer to a specific threat. And yeah, I still find Sphinx's Revelation draw beat them on a card advantage race (at least for that time you resolve it as you can deal on their card advantage source) while you are chaining your revs to victory.

    My sideboard plan was like:
    +2 BBoV (total of 4)
    +1 Negate
    +1 Pithing Needle
    +2 Thoughtseize (total of 2)
    +1 Last Breath

    -1 Plains
    -2 Supreme Verdict
    -4 Azorius Charm
    Posted in: UW/x Control
  • posted a message on [Sideboarding] Soldier of the Pantheon vs. Control
    Quote from Pork
    I really doubt it. There just seems like so much better options out there than that.

    Yup while I'm really a fan of Wafo-Tapa's idea (well most of us do), he also mentioned that he isn't satisfied how SotP is for mirrors. After reading SCG articles from Huey and Reid, and PV's from CFB in the previous weeks about mirror, it all really boils down to a counter war and if one manage to stick Aetherling no matter how they answer it. That being said, it isn't right to leave the show alone to Aetherling, I still use reasonable alternates like Jace, Memory Adept for that.

    I am also excited in the idea of taking out couple of Azorius Charms, while it is just a cycle card but works like a manabase to stabilize on lands on mirrors and a losing option against Aetherling, i can use the slot to effectively bring in threats like 3rd upto 4th BBoV since the only removal we are scared of against him is Devour Flesh and Supreme Verdict (with a reduced amount) which are answers nowhere effective against our other cards (losing answer against Aetherling too).
    Posted in: UW/x Control
  • posted a message on [Variant] Draw-Go Permission Esper
    Quote from The Other Guy
    A pure permission list is asking allot though. Ideally you'd really want better and cheaper card draw and Inspiration, while not bad, is just a really hard sell when you have access to Jace. Hero's Downfall and overloading on counters is all fine and all but Detention Sphere is just too important to not have in must MU's right now.

    Draw-go was much more viable when Restoration Angel and Snapcaster was legal as it allowed you to play most of your answers AND threats at instant speed. Currently you simply do not have this option. Personally I don't think a pure draw go list is viable although you could possibly adapt the current Esper shells to be a lot more flexible in terms of speed, similar to Wafo Tapa's approach at the Pro Tour.


    I agree.. the closest is Wafo-Tapa's where eschewing Detention Sphere almost completely is what he does, retaining relevant sorcery spells like Supreme Verdict and his Planeswalker package. Adding Divination too in the absence of Think Twice. But still, we can hardly consider it to be draw-go too as being draw-go these days (at least at the moment) is over. People are comfortable in a hybrid approach, some doing Thoughtseize, some are waiting with their Syncopate mana up.

    What really means for me in playing Esper right now is compressing those threats that are too wide to cover up all completely. Be it on a Hybrid, Draw-go or tap out. As long as it can answer almost everything, I'll stay with this strategy.
    Posted in: UW/x Control
  • posted a message on [Variant] Draw-Go Permission Esper
    Quote from omnimirage
    Il-Dana, why are you posting your tap-out list in a thread about draw-go control?


    Because I think it makes sense to lessen the tap lands to leave my lands open more effectively to respond, while effectively maintaining the black colors without worries of getting screwed. TS' list isn't a full draw-go either, so I really don't think this become a tap-out just because I'm using Divination rather than Thoughtseize main deck.

    Don't let me count the instants present and in the end telling me its a tap out, since it doesn't really make sense to call a deck draw go when it is running more than 8 non-instant speed spells. No offense on TS, but I do believe its not a draw-go either, I just don't see any sense to question that since all those non-instant spell are really viable in this type of deck he wants to put together.

    Just in case you wonder why I post this your so called TAP OUT list in a draw-go thread, man, there's not much of post when I wrote that, and I don't mind if the Mods are kind enough to transfer my post to other threads this time around that the primer thread is up here.

    Quote from GusChiggins
    Might as well drop the black and go u/w creatureless or singleton aetherling. Those lists are quite powerful with elixir of immortality to just cycle revelations and counters


    I like the idea of running UW with infinite Sphinx's of Revelation deck, but it really doesn't belong to the Esper thread if I post. Also, I'm sticking around with Esper since I'm seeing some developments in minimizing Black enough to make it perform perfectly just incase I need it. I still can't afford to not be able to answer cards like Stormbreath Dragon, Mistcutter Hydra and Nightveil Specter effectively. Black somehow increase my answers from those planeswalker if I want to, so yeah count me on the Esper wagon still, but building an Esper in an incomplete amount of Planeswalkers/Verdict/DetentionSphere seems to be wrong just to reach the thread's title "Draw-go".
    Posted in: UW/x Control
  • posted a message on [Variant] Draw-Go Permission Esper


    After trying this list for a while, I easily liked the way it moves away from committing more double black mana (save for a miser of Hero's Downfall) and utilizing Devour Flesh as its pseudo point removal in conjunction with Azorius Charm. The land configuration also surprisingly gives more breathing room for us to untap without shocking ourselves that much, and weakens the burning earth by a small degree compared to a 20 non-basic land config.

    Sideboard is pretty stock like the previous lists, but this time, Thoughtseize joined the sb in response to an aggressive meta which is less if not effective to hyper aggressive decks like Rakdos.
    Posted in: UW/x Control
  • posted a message on [Versus] B/G Rock
    Quote from MasterSword50
    I've been doing some testing for the upcoming SCG Open in Baltimore since I live nearby, and I've assembled a strong list against the majority of the field. I like my R/G Matchup since I use the aggressive version of this deck (Geist & Reckoner) and go under Burning Earth most of the time, and have plenty of removal for their creatures. Bant Hexproof is annoying, but I have verdicts and flares in the SB for them. Jund is about 50/50, but I have Clones, T-Maws, and Conscripts to help me in that matchup. And against any aggro decks, I consider myself a heavy favorite with cheap removal, snaps, and reckoners.

    However, I've been playtesting against B/G Midrange, and my god is the matchup really rough. They have so many ways to kill your Geist (Lili, Mutilate, Devour Flesh SB) and they can strip it from your hand on their play with a Lifebane Zombie. They can kill Boros Reckoner without damaging themselves at all thanks to Putrefy and Doom Blade - which conveniently works against Thundermaw Hellkite - and they have Oozes to turn off your Snapcaster Mages and offset damage from your burn spells.

    So I'm turning to the MTGS Community to help me out with this one: What are some cards UWR Geist can use to make the B/G matchup better? My immediate thought is to use Tamiyo because she can tap down a Thragtusk or Desecration Demon, draw cards, and use her ultimate as a win condition with burn in hand (assuming no scooze is on board). The B/G Decks also have very few ways to deal with planeswalkers.

    Here's my list as of now; I top 8'ed an IQ with it (a few slight changes) so I know the list is good and can win. Thanks for any help!



    For what I see, this list really turns on what B/G Midrange wants to do, able to hit your creatures with every removal they are packing and can make you exile white creatures on your hand. You're deck plan doesn't really go along with a Tamiyo, so instead tapping out for it, you better deal damage good enough then casting Zealous Conscript to close out these type of games.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Versus] Burning Earth
    Quote from Gio von Karlov
    The easier solution I found for Burning Earth is cut one color and run only two, and still being a solid deck. Actually I'm playing UW Flash with 1 D. Sphere, 1 Blind Obedience, 2 Dissipate and 3 Syncopate in MD. I have the 2nd D. Sphere, 1 O. Ring and 2 Blind Obedience in SB. All of that is a good arsenal vs Burning Earth

    Also, trying to play cheap (but good) spells are good enough to keep aggro decks and Burning Earth under control.

    My current list is this:



    I've been testing this list vs each aggro I found on my way and it totally works, even the lone Terminus worked! This list a solid matchup vs aggro decks, cheaper spells allows you to respond to everything they cast and Snap back those answers to create advantage and, as the game goes forward, allows you to cast your finishers (Restoration Angel and Sphinx's Revelation). With the meta as it is now, resolving a single Sphynx's Revelation of 4+ is gg for you.


    The thing about the red splash is for what its worth it for you to play red spells at all. Real incentive of red is for what i know to be very true are:

    Pillar of Flame - against undying, turn 1 mana dorks, Voice of Resurgence, and stuffs that do the same like Blood Artist. I'm still honestly amused how it feels good when Snapcaster flash it back.
    Warleader's Helix - post-verdict answer to creatures and even planeswalkers, enables you to shift gear from control to aggro control.
    Turn // Burn - catch-all creature removal at its best.
    Thundermaw Hellkite - allows to continue that shift-gear plan and takes on flying creatures for what he is worth for.

    other red cards like Izzet Staticaster and Assemble the Legion are viable cards when they are good.

    On an anti Burning Earth plan:

    I am generally siding in:

    2x Detention Sphere as catch all removal when they manage to sneak it it.
    3x Negate completely destroys my removal plan on red decks but I feel like I need to give them something to play around too and not just easily slam it and win against me, this can also somehow be used on critical burn spells they might threaten me.
    1x Turn // Burn, 2x Celestial Flare are other supplementary spot removals that I have on board, and I feel like if vs the R/G Kibler, Ratchet Bomb is very slow so as Izzet Staticaster is.

    I am also tempted to use Renounce the Guilds instead of Celestial Flare as early Domri Rade/Loxodon Smiter/Cartel Aristocrat/Voice of Resurgence answers.

    If by far, things aren't much an issue for you compared to you completely losing to Burning Earth, then maybe, as everyone is doing now, shift to a straight UW with limited immediate effect answers which results to you meta-gaming them, I can suggest a reduction of Snapcaster Mage as Scavenging Ooze makes it bad when not dealt now that playing UW can not guarantee you as much of a spot removal as UWR is.

    Quote from Heartworks
    I run a pretty standard UWR list and have 2x Oblivion Ring and 2x Wear // Tear in the sideboard to deal with Burning Earth decks.


    Having a 1:1 card ratio answer to Burning Earth is good, I for one also feels like 2x Detention Sphere alone isn't enough to fair on their full set of Burning Earth plan thats why I added a not-so-effective answer like Negate just incase I can manage to dominate the board without tapping out just to be burned with the enchantment.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Versus] Beating Jund and Junk?
    Quote from tonythetiger583
    The problem isnt getting to six mana...the problem is tapping out at 6 mana...giving them free reign to rakdos return you for six seems like an easy way to die....negating or thundermawing a garruk seems safer


    Also, Restoration Angel is very good against Garruks... I'm looking into increasing my Negates to 2, as well as including Clones, Supreme Verdicts and even Renounce the Guilds are worth considering as SB on these.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Variant] UWR Midrange or UWR Flash
    Quote from synack
    So William Jensen's deck from the SCG this past weekend. Seems it loses to mana flood and mana screw, otherwise seems to do okay.



    This is very VERY similar to what I'm playing now. Basically just need to chuck a Turn//Burn & Ratchet Bombs into the sideboard and I should be good to go.


    flooding happens at times, he is using a 61 card main deck iterations from Matt Costa's list in GP Miami.

    Currently sleeving up those Encroaching Wastes..

    As for Ratchet Bombs, works great versus Naya Blitz. I like the 2x Supreme Verdict main deck but not really sure how good it is to cut a Turn//Burn in its place. Except for the cantrips, all instant/sorceries are in good numbers, 26 lands is check also, I wonder which spell should I cut...
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Versus] Beating Jund and Junk?
    Quote from MasterSword50
    If you want to tune your deck to beat Jund and Junk, I have a few suggestions. First, don't have Geist in your SB and bring it in against Jund. Since you're a control deck, they'll bring in extra Liliana's, which if you're siding out Augurs (which I agree with), means your turn 3 Geist has a card that answers it. I personally don't want to make Liliana any better than she is, so if you're not running Geist MB, I'd stay away from it in the sideboard.

    Three good cards against Jund are Negate, Jace AoT, and Tamiyo. Negate is an early counter that stops Liliana, Garruk, Rakdos's Return, Keyrunes, or even Farseek on your play. It's a good counter against them and can be used against other control decks.

    Jace AoT gives you another method of card advantage that differentiates from Sphinx's Revelation, so if they Slaughter Games you naming Rev or even resolve a Sire of Insanity, you have a way to get some cards and answers.

    Last, Tamiyo is an all-star in any midrange matchup. She can slow the game down with her +1, make their Thragtusks weaker, force them to overextend into wraths, etc - all the while building to an ultimate that you'll win with. Her -2 is also worth noting, since she can draw you more cards and answers to their threats.

    Against Junk Reanimator, I think you need to run Purify the Grave. It's instant speed, has flashback for value, and can really stop their threats. It's very sweet to see them flashback an Unburial Rites, only for you to strip them of their target, creating a good two for one. It's also protectable against Sin Collector since if they cast it, you can cast your Purify and sit it in your graveyard.

    I also like Jace and Tamiyo against Junk too; Jace will draw you cards you need to answer their many resilient threats, and Tamiyo gives you another win con with the ability to go over the top of their resiliency. Worth noting that Jace can also get you lands you need if they get a slime. If it were me and I was focused on these two matchups, I'd do something like this:



    I think cutting the Charms and Augurs are good calls; just make the right substitutions and you can make the matchup easier. Hope this helps! I've fought against Jund and Junk as an Esper player and it can be tough.


    Hmm resorting to a planeswalker plan against those decks seems legit, I like the play! Especially if the deck is on full control build where we don't need to rely much on Instant/Sorcery count, and the risk of missing those non-Instant/Sorcery Spells via Augur, not that this card is bad, but not that good overall on these matchups, besides, we also tend to side them out against these so... It is not that hard for them to kill it, since they still have access to Oblivion Ring and Dreadbore, but most of their answers will not likely answer the planeswalkers. Especially if you're upto it game 2. After proving them that game 1 will really blank their removals since it will only for Snapcaster Mage on normal circumstances. Game 2, even creatures like Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius can surprise them. While their creature removal can still answer these, they will be surprised somehow with Planeswalkers that they will see on the next game.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Versus] Beating Jund and Junk?
    Quote from STS17
    Honestly, Slimes are the biggest threat to UWR decks that Junk has. We have literally no way to recover from recurring or multiple Acidic Slimes - sometimes I almost feel like I want to run Nevermore to name them just so I don't have to deal with them >.<

    Everything else they can threaten us with can be reasonably dealt with from most of the cards in the deck. Unfortunately, we only have so many Pillars and they have Mana Accelerators, Voices, and Slimes which all beg to be hit with them. I do believe that our best bet in this match up is to try and go under them with Geist of Saint Traft or the like as he is very difficult for them to deal with and usually fairly easy for us to protect.


    One thing that I don't like about the Spirit Cleric is that, he can easily be chunk by lots of Lingering Souls tokens, Acidic Slime, Thragtusk...
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Versus] Beating Jund and Junk?
    Quote from Wustin
    Clones and Staticasters are very good against Junk.


    If not for the x/1 tokens, I don't see any use of Izzet Staticaster in Junk while Terminus is also good against Act, and its occasional miracle against Blitz which is the very purpose of the staticaster. I think an escape button card like Rest in Peace should at the very least remove their graveyard investment and Clone helps in attrition wars except that I cannot be reuse it anymore without Restoration Angel.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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