The more I think about it, this guy seems like it could actually be solid. Good keywords, draws at least one card and elves are pretty common in the green section so there is definitely a non-zero chance you might have an elf or two on board from ramping this out.
Not jamming it, but I'd be interested to hear testing.
Assuming the official wording is like Subtlety, it seems the opponent gets to choose wether it goes on top or bottom. If that's the case, this is just strictly worse than Commit // Memory, and that's not even counting the aftermath side. I think this plays third fiddle to both Commit // Memory and Venser.
I don't think Venser is that strong TBH.
He fits a niche as being a repeatable way to get an etb on any permanent type every turn, whilst threatening to reach a pretty strong ultimate.
Showing his age, but he is a flexible card in a fun archtype.
All of these modes are way below rate, and the most common modes (3 mana over 2 turns for a 2/2 with surveil 1 or a 3 mana over 2 turns for draw 1 surveil 1) are neither modes I'd ever want to have. Sure, you get to bin a non-creature and hope to hit something you can turn face up with the cloak, but that's basically draw a card with extra steps (and you miss al etb's). The goad mode just seems so situational too. I think this is an easy pass.
Cloak makes a 2/2 with ward 2, if that changes your evaluation. 3 mana for a 2/2 ward 2 isn't the worst base rate. The ward will help it stick till you can flip it.
Your right though, so many creatures have their power in an ETB that uncloaking/flipping them becomes a pretty poor rate if its just for the stat bump.
4 mana feels like a lot for this effect, despite the flexibility. I feel like I'd rather run Venser; trading putting the thing on top (vs their hand) seems worse than having a body on board I can blink for value.
Been a high pick since inclusion in my cube. It's lifelink has flipped so many races for me, and it's deathtough has forced removal to be used on bodies that could otherwise be attacked through.
Moving it about is mana intensive but giving a big dude lifelink then swapping it to a small body for the death touch just makes any kind of profitable attack impossible on many boards.
I run TitI but it's always just on the verge of being cut. It doesn't flip nearly as often as it used to, but i d9nt have any hard stats for that assertion. It has stuck because its a 2 mana creature your opponent can't just ignore like they can most 0/4 walls.
With threats getting cheaper and ETB effects getting stronger bouncing your opponents board can be less effective then you would think.
Hmmm I don’t run initiative cards for complexity reasons (I do run monarch) but I would guess that creatures / planeswalker removal is becoming more important and burn to the face is less important (for the reasons you mentioned), so I feel like mine collapse is stronger as it does the same thing (but better) at less mana cost. Overall I have been finding it hard to leave up 2 mana in an aggressive deck, and it feels especially bad if the opponent makes no plays. I really wish there was another sorcery speed bolt or another shock+kicker or something else that I could replace spear with.
In agressive decks I'm rarely holding up burn unless I want my opponent to think they have more life that they really do. In the early game I'm usually casting it pre-combat to get rid of blockers.
I had a phase where I cut alot of burn for versions that couldn't go to the dome, it really hurt the agressive decks if you don't have a decent density of face burning cards
Been playing it since release and it's been great. The front half blocks most non-evasive 1-3 drops to stem the bleeding for the first few turns, then you can flip it into a pretty respectable beater.
Splitting the cost is also nice as you can get it in early under counter magic, or, minimise the tempo loss if the counter it so you can cast something else.
We were chatting about savant today and a fun combo came up: Arcane Savant naming Persist + Goblin Bombardment = Infinate Damage
You hold priority when Savant ETBs and sac it to bombardment, then when Persist resolves you bring back the Savant.
This is my exact problem with the card. I wouldn't consider Delayed Blast Fireball as reasonable with Arcane Savant. Similarly, I had a discussion with someone about Arcane + Displacer Kitten. The bar for me is Arcane Savant -> Mystic Confluence.
Broken might have been a better choice of words, it's definitely became the new boogie-man of cards to exile with Arcane Savant.
My cube is big enough that it doesn't show up every draft (450-ish with 4-6 people) and that variance helps keep Savant from doing the same busted things every draft.
Wouldn't fault anyone for cutting him rather than warping their spell selection round him.
We were chatting about savant today and a fun combo came up: Arcane Savant naming Persist + Goblin Bombardment = Infinate Damage
You hold priority when Savant ETBs and sac it to bombardment, then when Persist resolves you bring back the Savant.
I've never run Thraben Inspector. What do folks like about it so much? Happy to be sold on it...
It's just a solid 1 drop for the non agressive decks, I wasn't convinced till I played with it, but it does alot more than the sum of its parts.
It's 1 mana to make 2 relevant perminant types (creature & artifact) so it's good in things like artifact.dec and aristocrats. Against agro decks it trades for a 2/1 and let's you draw a card later in the game.. Whilst not amazing to blink, it's a 1 drop that can be blinked for value. In the late game it can just draw a card if you top decked it, and chump a blocker pollisbly getting you to the next turn.
If I'm in any non agressive white deck there is a very good chance It's making the main deck.
It's kinda like how Baleful Strix doesn't read like an all-star but so many decks leverage part of its card text to great effect. Now, it's not quite strix, but it's also a mono coloured 1 drop so I'm fine with it not being as good.
Give it a go for afew drafts, I needed convincing but have been very happy with it.
Not jamming it, but I'd be interested to hear testing.
He fits a niche as being a repeatable way to get an etb on any permanent type every turn, whilst threatening to reach a pretty strong ultimate.
Showing his age, but he is a flexible card in a fun archtype.
EDIT: Wrong Venser.
Cloak makes a 2/2 with ward 2, if that changes your evaluation. 3 mana for a 2/2 ward 2 isn't the worst base rate. The ward will help it stick till you can flip it.
Your right though, so many creatures have their power in an ETB that uncloaking/flipping them becomes a pretty poor rate if its just for the stat bump.
Its a neat little card, I just don't think it competes with my current 1 drop artifacts.
Moving it about is mana intensive but giving a big dude lifelink then swapping it to a small body for the death touch just makes any kind of profitable attack impossible on many boards.
Not in love with suspect though, not for gameplay reasons, just feels clunky
With threats getting cheaper and ETB effects getting stronger bouncing your opponents board can be less effective then you would think.
In agressive decks I'm rarely holding up burn unless I want my opponent to think they have more life that they really do. In the early game I'm usually casting it pre-combat to get rid of blockers.
I had a phase where I cut alot of burn for versions that couldn't go to the dome, it really hurt the agressive decks if you don't have a decent density of face burning cards
Splitting the cost is also nice as you can get it in early under counter magic, or, minimise the tempo loss if the counter it so you can cast something else.
Great card, would recommend.
Broken might have been a better choice of words, it's definitely became the new boogie-man of cards to exile with Arcane Savant.
My cube is big enough that it doesn't show up every draft (450-ish with 4-6 people) and that variance helps keep Savant from doing the same busted things every draft.
Wouldn't fault anyone for cutting him rather than warping their spell selection round him.
Arcane Savant naming Persist + Goblin Bombardment = Infinate Damage
You hold priority when Savant ETBs and sac it to bombardment, then when Persist resolves you bring back the Savant.
Delayed Blast Fireball has also been great.
It's just a solid 1 drop for the non agressive decks, I wasn't convinced till I played with it, but it does alot more than the sum of its parts.
It's 1 mana to make 2 relevant perminant types (creature & artifact) so it's good in things like artifact.dec and aristocrats. Against agro decks it trades for a 2/1 and let's you draw a card later in the game.. Whilst not amazing to blink, it's a 1 drop that can be blinked for value. In the late game it can just draw a card if you top decked it, and chump a blocker pollisbly getting you to the next turn.
If I'm in any non agressive white deck there is a very good chance It's making the main deck.
It's kinda like how Baleful Strix doesn't read like an all-star but so many decks leverage part of its card text to great effect. Now, it's not quite strix, but it's also a mono coloured 1 drop so I'm fine with it not being as good.
Give it a go for afew drafts, I needed convincing but have been very happy with it.