My complaint is standard has a hard time firing in lots of places these days.
2 years ago my large LGS sported 15-25 players for standard every FNM. It held events on Sunday and Tuesday that all fired every time.
This month standard barely fires with 6-8 people (occasionally 'fill-ins' are used so we can play). Sundays don't fire, weekdays forget it.
Modern 2 years ago same FNM around 10-15 people. Today 20-30 consistently, fires every time. holiday weekend in Dec there were 81 Modern players (standard didn't fire). Is it that way everywhere? No. Is that a sign that standard needs a lot of help? Sure is. High entry cost to be competitive (or just looking at card costs and saying 'forget that') makes people think... hmmm I'll just play commander, or another game entirely.
At a time when they ought to be bending over backwards go get people in standard high prices such as these don't help. It sucked when it was just Gideon, now we've got 3 plainswalkers and numerous other cards above $20 each, including cards that will rotate sooner than later. Not exactly great investment time.
They've noticed lower attendance at the big events, that means a LOT lower attendance at LGS. Why even buy cards if you don't get to use them?
It's nice they're grudgingly bringing back FNM promos but frankly that's not enough. Challenger decks are ok but to make them right you need to invest in quite a few of the same cards we're talking about.
I just don't want to wonder if FNM will fire or not, or if I should bother taking the time to see if it will. That alone makes people think twice before showing up to play.
The timer and ignoring simple fixes is getting old.
They don't communicate at all with the testers and seem to be chugging along like nothing's wrong.
Too bad really they could knock it out of the park but don't want to.
The argument is 30+ dollar cards are bad for a format that's struggling. 60+ is just stupid.
Should be harder to give the design team the benefit of the doubt after 2 years of disaster.
What exactly are they doing to bring people back into standard... aside from appealing to people's desire to blow all their cash on overpriced singles?
I´m chiming in as a player who considered picking up a standard deck, but ultimately opted out because of the price and ubiquity of Karn. I strongly dislike feeling like I´m playing a budget/non-optimal list, and it seems like I have the choice of either doing that or dishing out an unreasonable amount on an insanely inflated card that´s bound to crash eventually. I know that buying singles that will go down in value is part of the format, but this is just too much. I actually started to scrape a white aggro deck together, I even have the playset of History, but now I´m going to feel like I´m playing a loser´s version of WB Vehicles, and there´s no way I´m buying into a $650 Standard deck. I could consider GB Constrictor, but I guess it´s just a matter of time before people figure out that Karn is good there too. So I´m giving it a pass and I´m selling the Standard relevant cards I have.
I´m convinced that Karn hurts the format. I can´t possibly be the only one who was tempted to get into Standard, then looked at the top decks and the prices and went "heeell no".
THIS is what the problem is. It's not just a 4 cost 6 (+1 unless exiled immediately) loyalty plains walker that starts with value and continues to generate it.
It's the fact that right now standard is decimated. FNM barely fires in many places (even if your LGS is doing fine think big picture) and they print a card that CAN go in any deck and generate value. Is it optimized for every deck? No. Does it function in every deck? Yes. How many decks are answering T4 6 loyalty? Even if you do, they play another, still value. Paying attention to the 'artifacts matter' portion of the -2 is shallow. The +1 and needing to deal with 6 loyalty is the power. Sure Vehicles or RDW can just plow through and ignore him, but the fact is we have a card that is $70 bucks in a standard that needs more players. There was plenty of problem with the cost of standard with 20-25 dollar premium mythics before this. Now this bank busting price tag (doesn't matter if it EVENTUALLY drops) is making people refuse to play standard.
Karn does hurt an already bleeding and ragged format. The Kaladesh dumpster fire is still harming the format but all will not get better after it rotates and I guarantee Karn will NOT lose his luster as much as people think with Kaladesh rotation. After 2 years of stomping on their own game and driving people away from standard they need to be much smarter than this and proactively take action to make standard less expensive not more. They're doing nothing there, and they're doing nothing to attract people to the format. (The Challenger decks are not a hit but a total whiff)
It would be great for the prices to nose dive but right now it's the power cards that are appearing with high frequency in decks.
FNM showed me a dude with 4 Karn, at least 2 Lyra and 4 Benalia in a mono white deck. Have to say dealing with Karn repeatedly is devastating.
The price of standard has been high and it gets worse now that standard numbers are low. Barely fired and that was only because some employees 'joined in' so we could have standard that night. Modern still strong with 30+.
Something beyond the consumer's control needs to be done to reign things in a bit. People still shrug and say 'Karn will play in Modern' and just accept the price tag. Not great for inducting new people or getting players to return. That's my concern.
Control IS doing well again and look at the UW lists. Karn, Teferi, History of Benalia, Lyra are all there together or some variation of them. Hell the mono white tokens had them all except Teferi. You can't recruit people to play standard when the cost to play is this high and the options to play without these monsters is lackluster. Even Red Deck wins, which traditionally hasn't been the highest priced deck out there is pretty pricey if you max it out with Phoenix and Hazoret. Instead we get a 2H giant set.
Another
Product
yay
They can't be bothered to fix simple things yet they're already pushing beta testers to give them cash. Their interface and graphics are clunky as hell and cause their 'timer' to screw up constantly while resolving stacks because of heavy/mistimed graphics loads (even on power machines).
If it was just the Econ needing fixing maybe there'd be hope but the design is poor and it doesn't look like they're going to fix it. Who thinks it's ok to have to chase lands around the screen to tap them? WHO?
No trading or wildcard transformations is a big deal and part of why the Econ is messed up. Instead of gaming their audience they should just put forth a solid product aimed at making MTGO obsolete. Instead it's something mushy in the middle of MTGO and Duels and bleh.
35+ for standard cards is freaking ridiculous.
I understand hype but people haven't been playing standard for a while now. Is this the result of lower point of sales turnover?
I know people test the water when a new set hits but at those prices?
I'd rather not play, which hasn't been the choice but the trend lately as FNMs don't fire consistently even in high volume LGS.
So even though you get your gems back what if they change values? Will you get exactly what you bought back or get new values?
I'm having trouble stomaching the total lack of attention to beta tester inputs so why would I spend anything on a game I very likely will not play???
They need a chess clock. If they want to be 'easier' on newbies add a 5 sec 'free' time to make your moves without the clock starting. Too many idiots afking, minimizing, doing laundry, or just delaying so that people quit and give them a win. It's trash. The timer doesn't even work right still, half the time it ticks for the wrong person while someone is resolving the stack.
Land still jumps around trying not to be tapped. What idiot thinks that's ok? Why is that not fixed?
Creatures and lands restacking into 2 rows and getting really tiny is stupid. STILL NOT FIXED.
They've actually made the interface clunkier with successive patches. No idea what they're fixing other than WotC's wallet right now.
Almost ZERO communication of their intentions and what input they care for through the beta process.
They are steaming ahead leaving a lot of things busted. I predict they go to market with a sh** model, make some initial money, field a lot of complaints, and end up changing things a lot if they expect to keep making money and holding onto f2p people.
They make the Econ worse every patch. It's like they're pushing as hard as they can until everyone screams or quits at once.
Gonna have to say that 3 standard cards ringing in at $35+ (I know prices settle with time but these have all gone up) is BS and not good for the game.
They still do nothing to make the price of standard better.
I got a Mythic Rare Wild from a pack yesterday so they are not axed from the game. Not sure where that came from.
The stack is much better than it was (the timer was out of sync and more than 3 spells on the stack was lagging out and bugging) but it's still not perfect.
The UI doesn't allow you to turn off their animations which is absurd. Someone reported they have zero intention of allowing users to turn them off which is a basic feature of just about every game. Really really lazy or wrongheaded.
The economy has gotten slower this time around and we were suggesting it was too slow before with only 2 sets. Now with 4 it's really bad and you don't even get to pick what set you get packs from when you 'win' a bonus pack. Auto RIX.
As expected there are a few bugs here and there with the new sets but not atrocious.
There is still no set game timer. This is awful. Too many afk and minimize surfing warriors rudely making their opponents wait for simple land go situations. I can't imagine tolerating 3 game matches against such slow and intentionally slow opponents.
No surprise Friday night is a UB bloodbath as people build towards Scarab God decks.
The game could be really good with a little work in the right areas but we're not sure they're caring about some of the things we're reporting.
I get fed up and quit more than I really want to keep playing both from the game and the other players.
This is really the rub that should make people mad whether you like Standard Commander or not;
they're introducing BRAWL to make more sales instead of fixing their problem (low standard participation) and playable card prices. They should be putting the full weight of promotions, ads, design, and LGS support behind making their game fire every Friday no matter what.
Oh yea... and if you like this one card... you'll have to buy a box because card prices aren't high enough.
2 years ago my large LGS sported 15-25 players for standard every FNM. It held events on Sunday and Tuesday that all fired every time.
This month standard barely fires with 6-8 people (occasionally 'fill-ins' are used so we can play). Sundays don't fire, weekdays forget it.
Modern 2 years ago same FNM around 10-15 people. Today 20-30 consistently, fires every time. holiday weekend in Dec there were 81 Modern players (standard didn't fire). Is it that way everywhere? No. Is that a sign that standard needs a lot of help? Sure is. High entry cost to be competitive (or just looking at card costs and saying 'forget that') makes people think... hmmm I'll just play commander, or another game entirely.
At a time when they ought to be bending over backwards go get people in standard high prices such as these don't help. It sucked when it was just Gideon, now we've got 3 plainswalkers and numerous other cards above $20 each, including cards that will rotate sooner than later. Not exactly great investment time.
They've noticed lower attendance at the big events, that means a LOT lower attendance at LGS. Why even buy cards if you don't get to use them?
It's nice they're grudgingly bringing back FNM promos but frankly that's not enough. Challenger decks are ok but to make them right you need to invest in quite a few of the same cards we're talking about.
I just don't want to wonder if FNM will fire or not, or if I should bother taking the time to see if it will. That alone makes people think twice before showing up to play.
They don't communicate at all with the testers and seem to be chugging along like nothing's wrong.
Too bad really they could knock it out of the park but don't want to.
Should be harder to give the design team the benefit of the doubt after 2 years of disaster.
What exactly are they doing to bring people back into standard... aside from appealing to people's desire to blow all their cash on overpriced singles?
THIS is what the problem is. It's not just a 4 cost 6 (+1 unless exiled immediately) loyalty plains walker that starts with value and continues to generate it.
It's the fact that right now standard is decimated. FNM barely fires in many places (even if your LGS is doing fine think big picture) and they print a card that CAN go in any deck and generate value. Is it optimized for every deck? No. Does it function in every deck? Yes. How many decks are answering T4 6 loyalty? Even if you do, they play another, still value. Paying attention to the 'artifacts matter' portion of the -2 is shallow. The +1 and needing to deal with 6 loyalty is the power. Sure Vehicles or RDW can just plow through and ignore him, but the fact is we have a card that is $70 bucks in a standard that needs more players. There was plenty of problem with the cost of standard with 20-25 dollar premium mythics before this. Now this bank busting price tag (doesn't matter if it EVENTUALLY drops) is making people refuse to play standard.
Karn does hurt an already bleeding and ragged format. The Kaladesh dumpster fire is still harming the format but all will not get better after it rotates and I guarantee Karn will NOT lose his luster as much as people think with Kaladesh rotation. After 2 years of stomping on their own game and driving people away from standard they need to be much smarter than this and proactively take action to make standard less expensive not more. They're doing nothing there, and they're doing nothing to attract people to the format. (The Challenger decks are not a hit but a total whiff)
Printing Karn is a mistake.
FNM showed me a dude with 4 Karn, at least 2 Lyra and 4 Benalia in a mono white deck. Have to say dealing with Karn repeatedly is devastating.
The price of standard has been high and it gets worse now that standard numbers are low. Barely fired and that was only because some employees 'joined in' so we could have standard that night. Modern still strong with 30+.
Something beyond the consumer's control needs to be done to reign things in a bit. People still shrug and say 'Karn will play in Modern' and just accept the price tag. Not great for inducting new people or getting players to return. That's my concern.
Control IS doing well again and look at the UW lists. Karn, Teferi, History of Benalia, Lyra are all there together or some variation of them. Hell the mono white tokens had them all except Teferi. You can't recruit people to play standard when the cost to play is this high and the options to play without these monsters is lackluster. Even Red Deck wins, which traditionally hasn't been the highest priced deck out there is pretty pricey if you max it out with Phoenix and Hazoret. Instead we get a 2H giant set.
Another
Product
yay
Who makes the rarity?
Who makes the cards?
Who exerts control over the marketplace via reprints?
Who sets the pack price?
Rocket Science.
While I judge there to be provocation, I also judge that this post could be more constructive. Please stop. - hoser2
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/sperlings-sick-of-it-dominaria/
Has anyone seen anything where they've admitted the mistake and won't do it again??
tnx
They can't be bothered to fix simple things yet they're already pushing beta testers to give them cash. Their interface and graphics are clunky as hell and cause their 'timer' to screw up constantly while resolving stacks because of heavy/mistimed graphics loads (even on power machines).
If it was just the Econ needing fixing maybe there'd be hope but the design is poor and it doesn't look like they're going to fix it. Who thinks it's ok to have to chase lands around the screen to tap them? WHO?
No trading or wildcard transformations is a big deal and part of why the Econ is messed up. Instead of gaming their audience they should just put forth a solid product aimed at making MTGO obsolete. Instead it's something mushy in the middle of MTGO and Duels and bleh.
I understand hype but people haven't been playing standard for a while now. Is this the result of lower point of sales turnover?
I know people test the water when a new set hits but at those prices?
I'd rather not play, which hasn't been the choice but the trend lately as FNMs don't fire consistently even in high volume LGS.
It's still a problem. My statement still stands.
I'm having trouble stomaching the total lack of attention to beta tester inputs so why would I spend anything on a game I very likely will not play???
They need a chess clock. If they want to be 'easier' on newbies add a 5 sec 'free' time to make your moves without the clock starting. Too many idiots afking, minimizing, doing laundry, or just delaying so that people quit and give them a win. It's trash. The timer doesn't even work right still, half the time it ticks for the wrong person while someone is resolving the stack.
Land still jumps around trying not to be tapped. What idiot thinks that's ok? Why is that not fixed?
Creatures and lands restacking into 2 rows and getting really tiny is stupid. STILL NOT FIXED.
They've actually made the interface clunkier with successive patches. No idea what they're fixing other than WotC's wallet right now.
Almost ZERO communication of their intentions and what input they care for through the beta process.
They are steaming ahead leaving a lot of things busted. I predict they go to market with a sh** model, make some initial money, field a lot of complaints, and end up changing things a lot if they expect to keep making money and holding onto f2p people.
They make the Econ worse every patch. It's like they're pushing as hard as they can until everyone screams or quits at once.
Disappointing.
They still do nothing to make the price of standard better.
The stack is much better than it was (the timer was out of sync and more than 3 spells on the stack was lagging out and bugging) but it's still not perfect.
The UI doesn't allow you to turn off their animations which is absurd. Someone reported they have zero intention of allowing users to turn them off which is a basic feature of just about every game. Really really lazy or wrongheaded.
The economy has gotten slower this time around and we were suggesting it was too slow before with only 2 sets. Now with 4 it's really bad and you don't even get to pick what set you get packs from when you 'win' a bonus pack. Auto RIX.
As expected there are a few bugs here and there with the new sets but not atrocious.
There is still no set game timer. This is awful. Too many afk and minimize surfing warriors rudely making their opponents wait for simple land go situations. I can't imagine tolerating 3 game matches against such slow and intentionally slow opponents.
No surprise Friday night is a UB bloodbath as people build towards Scarab God decks.
The game could be really good with a little work in the right areas but we're not sure they're caring about some of the things we're reporting.
I get fed up and quit more than I really want to keep playing both from the game and the other players.
they're introducing BRAWL to make more sales instead of fixing their problem (low standard participation) and playable card prices. They should be putting the full weight of promotions, ads, design, and LGS support behind making their game fire every Friday no matter what.
Oh yea... and if you like this one card... you'll have to buy a box because card prices aren't high enough.
Nope. Not buying in. You shouldn't either.