I agree on the Stubborn Denial, indeed I cut them. Going low on fatties also means that sometimes you just don't have ferocious. Discards + removals seems the way to go.
What I don't undestand, even thought I sometimes shave on them myself, is WHY Scour should be cutted in the match-up. You're pratically playing a 52-cards deck, with Serums and Scours, so sideboarding in some removals in spite of a card which is most likely to draw another removal or a piece of disruption seems really strange. It's not even a grindfest, when you can shave on Scours because every card in your deck really matters. And having them to search for removals (to Snap-cast them when you're short on) seems good enough. SO, we really lack of any other cuttable card in the maindeck?
Scour's primary purpose is and always will be to enable an early Tasigur or Angler when you need to apply pressure immediately. Delver and Shadow are decks where you need to constantly reasses whether you're the aggro deck or the control deck. Sometimes, you just need a turn 2 threat in order to have a chance of winning. In matchups where we don't need to be the aggro role immediately, Scours are much less important to the gameplan. It's true that it helps with Snapcaster, but that's really just an added bonus and not a reason enough alone to keep it in.
The red unstable mutation seem playable in Modern. Zoo wants it. Delver may even want it. Swinging with a 6/5 flyer on turn 2 with a mana left open to Spell Pierce seems reasonable.
Delver already had access to Unstable Mutation from the Timeshifted printing and didn't want it. It's a neat card, but the fact that it's red makes it even worse in Delver.
I also don't misdirection is enough to make any noticable change, either. It might be better than mana leak sometimes, but if the difference between 2 and 3 was insignificant, you'd have seen someone mention rune snag in the past years.
Rune Snag is a huge nonbo with some of the most important Control pieces in existence: Delve creatures and Snapcaster Mage. It also has to be played as a 4-of to be consistently worthwhile, and I don't think most lists run 4 Mana Leak (usually 2-3).
I'm not saying that Miscalculation is amazing or anything, because it's definitely not. But Rune Snag isn't a good point of comparison.
Totally agree. Rune Snag might be more played if the graveyard wasn’t such an avid resource for most decks and trying use it as a comparison to Miscalculation is a bit off-base.
The ability to cycle Miscalculation would probably make it a small upgrade for most decks that want a Mana Leak effect. The main flaw of Mana Leak is how quickly it loses potency when the game drags on. It also looks silly in your hand when you're staring down a Cavern of Souls. Cycling helps soften both those problems by being able to trade it during those situations.
Miscalculation reprint anyone? That would be a welcome addition to Modern. It might be a bit too hopeful though, even if Stoddard has been talking about swinging the pendulum to stronger answers.
I know its not a really good reason, but one concern for having both Preordain and Serum Visions legal in modern is that a lot of decks would end up playing both and since the effects are the same except for doing things in a different order, players could mix up the order when playing one of the two.
For example, cast Serum Visions scry first then draw. Or the opposite.
Might happen or might not, but it could lead to many judge calls.
Seems like a moot point as you said. Plenty of cards in modern have similar effects that people could potentially confuse. That should have no bearing on whether the card is a safe unban or not.
The only reason I suggest Grapeshot is because Storm would still exist with Warrens, but it would be at least a turn slower and goblins can be blocked if you have enough creatures for it to matter. I know there are other decks P&P would help, but none that Wizards hates half as much, nothing that couldn't be tolerated doing well. I am sure that I am missing one, but it would also be the fastest deck and probably the most powerful with the canttips. I don't hate the deck, my hand disruption UB decks enjoys eating all combo decks equally
Just because I don't pay attention to the really minor decks the way I should, what other decks would become too much with those cards?
Infect becomes a lot more consistent in particular with Become Immense. Cheerio's would probably be t1 with them. It slows them down, but the ability to find protection or another Paladin just makes them a lot more consistent. The issue is that preordain and ponder make a lot of these decks a lot more consistent.
All of those decks are Tier 3 or lower, except for Ad Naus which is Tier 2 and not a T4 rule violator. I don't understand why people are terrified about these decks getting Preordain. Multiple Tier 2 and 3 reactive decks would benefit from Preordain too, which would likely balance out or downright outweigh the combo boost.
I think this is spot on. Combo decks might get a boost in consistency, but control and tempo decks often have favored matchups against combo. Preordain also boosts consistency in control and tempo.
An unban seems more likely at the next announcement. Wizards has the habit of throwing random curve-balls now and then, but most people seem to have Jace, the Mindsculptor as the front-runner for a ban.
Talk is just that. People jump on these forums every day spouting claims of needed bans all the time, so I wouldn't invest too much concern into talk unless it's pretty resounding and backed by data.
I got to put in more games with my control deck than I have really been able to before yesterday, I got to play for a solid couple hours. I had been fine with Mana Leakand spells of that ilk, but my group doesn't sideboard, we don't want our meta to get inbred, so it is about the best possible maindeck. I know the issues here, I say it to explain why I didn't side in other spells.
Counterspellneeds to be in the format. I had t2 Delver swinging with all of the counterspells I could want (I saw 7 total in one game)and it didn't do enough because my opponent drew them again from Remand or got to be able to pay the tax. the games went long and I know part of it was on me and even more on the quirks of the group, but even in a format with as little mana as Modern often has, Leak just isn't good enough alone, nor is Remand. Counterspell proper is what is needed, or the Revolt equivalent
The quickest way for your meta to get inbred is to omit sideboards. Sideboards are meant to help you deal with strategies that attack from weird or unfair angles. The first person who shows up with Dredge, Bogles or any deck that plays magic on a slightly different access just cleans house. Sideboards are your friend in regulating degenerate activity.
Why should we take your word for needing Counterspell in the format when your limited testing ignores a key piece of the format? We play more games post-board than pre-board. Although I agree that Counterspell would be a welcome addition to the format, I highly doubt it solves much of blue's current "problem" in the format.
What do you guys think about Spreading Seas for land hate?
Spreading Seas, despite costing 1 less than all the other popular choice for land hate, is suboptimal. It draws you a card, but that’s rather irrelevant in most Tron matchups. It only hits one land and doesn’t put them behind on mana, like the other choices.
Blood Moon – Shuts off all of their extra mana producing lands and slows them down by at least 2-3 turns. Also shuts off other random utility lands like Sanctum of Ugin and Cavern of Souls EldraziTron variants. Molten Rain – Can be recurred with Snapcaster Mage and it deals damage (important with Tron, because you need to finish the game fast). Fullminator Mage – Can be recurred with Kolaghan’s Command and has a body.
Against Tron, you're living on borrowed time. Turning one of their lands into a "fair" land is often not good enough. Getting rid of one of their lands, or turn ALL of their lands into "fair" lands, sometimes is good enough.
Cermonious Rejection SEEMS great, until you use it to counter a World Breaker or an Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. The cast triggers are often enough to put you far enough behind for them to re-stabilize and while they just Sanctum of Ugin right back into another World Breaker or Ulamog.
Attacking Tron's land base, while applying an immediate clock seems like the best way to fight the deck. If there's anything you want to disrupt in the deck, it's their land searching effects.
Staticaster is nice since you can fetch it with Traverse and it has flash, but I feel like Pyroclasm has always done the sweeper job better. I can't think of any matchups that I'd rather have Staticaster over pyroclasm, aside from using it to clear out Lingering Souls tokens. Pyroclasm flips Delver, it can be flashed back with Snapcaster and it loads the grave for Reveler. Clasm also cleans up any x/2's on the battlefield.
Yeah, my experience with Regionals was pretty similar. Went 1-3, and then dropped. I took the Traverse/Bauble build, expecting to encounter tons of GBx, Aggro decks and Grixis.
Round 1 vs Kiki-Chord 2-0
This round I dominated. Landed quick Goyfs both games. Game 2 I landed Blood Moon on turn 3 and he scooped almost immediately.
Round 2 vs GR Tron 1-2
The games were close, but I desperately miss Shoal in this matchup. Also, Delver would not flip for 4 straight turns, giving him time to find an answer to Blood Moon.
Round 3 vs Grishoalbrand 1-2
First game a simple Mana Leak stopped an accelerated Through the Breach and my Goyf cleaned up. Game 2 I had a Denial for the first Goryo he attempted, but nothing for the Through the Breach he cast next turn. Final game I Mana Leaked a Goryo, only to have to a Pact of Negation shut me out.
Round 4 vs GR Tron 1-2
Felt like a repeat of my round 2 GR Tron matchups.
I think I’m going to head back to tinkering with Shoal versions, with some amount of Sleight of Hands. I LOVE Traverse in any match that goes grindy (aside from tron), but Shoal is just too darn good at being a speed bump for anything unfair.
110 dorra is cheap?? For that amount you could two AAA console games and pretty much anyone with little bit of sanity can say that is a total ripoff.
Apples to Oranges friend. Any hobby has a cost attached to it and as long as Magic cards are a collectible, there will always be financial decisions involved. And Jund is only one deck. If you want to play Jund, then you have to shell out the dough. Your video game example is sort of a moot point; some old NES games cost upwards of $20k for a copy and if you resign yourself to playing ONLY the most expensive game... then yes. Playing video games looks like a ripoff for the money you pay, as might buying into Jund.
If you compare Modern to Standard and Legacy, the price tag to play competitively seems reasonable.
Scour's primary purpose is and always will be to enable an early Tasigur or Angler when you need to apply pressure immediately. Delver and Shadow are decks where you need to constantly reasses whether you're the aggro deck or the control deck. Sometimes, you just need a turn 2 threat in order to have a chance of winning. In matchups where we don't need to be the aggro role immediately, Scours are much less important to the gameplan. It's true that it helps with Snapcaster, but that's really just an added bonus and not a reason enough alone to keep it in.
Delver already had access to Unstable Mutation from the Timeshifted printing and didn't want it. It's a neat card, but the fact that it's red makes it even worse in Delver.
Totally agree. Rune Snag might be more played if the graveyard wasn’t such an avid resource for most decks and trying use it as a comparison to Miscalculation is a bit off-base.
The ability to cycle Miscalculation would probably make it a small upgrade for most decks that want a Mana Leak effect. The main flaw of Mana Leak is how quickly it loses potency when the game drags on. It also looks silly in your hand when you're staring down a Cavern of Souls. Cycling helps soften both those problems by being able to trade it during those situations.
Miscalculation reprint anyone? That would be a welcome addition to Modern. It might be a bit too hopeful though, even if Stoddard has been talking about swinging the pendulum to stronger answers.
Seismic Swans won a TCG event recently and Saffron Olive did a budget version of the deck.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-77-46-tix-42-land-swan-hunt-modern
The Saffron Olive effect.
Seems like a moot point as you said. Plenty of cards in modern have similar effects that people could potentially confuse. That should have no bearing on whether the card is a safe unban or not.
Edit: What those guys above me said!
I think this is spot on. Combo decks might get a boost in consistency, but control and tempo decks often have favored matchups against combo. Preordain also boosts consistency in control and tempo.
An unban seems more likely at the next announcement. Wizards has the habit of throwing random curve-balls now and then, but most people seem to have Jace, the Mindsculptor as the front-runner for a ban.
Talk is just that. People jump on these forums every day spouting claims of needed bans all the time, so I wouldn't invest too much concern into talk unless it's pretty resounding and backed by data.
The quickest way for your meta to get inbred is to omit sideboards. Sideboards are meant to help you deal with strategies that attack from weird or unfair angles. The first person who shows up with Dredge, Bogles or any deck that plays magic on a slightly different access just cleans house. Sideboards are your friend in regulating degenerate activity.
Why should we take your word for needing Counterspell in the format when your limited testing ignores a key piece of the format? We play more games post-board than pre-board. Although I agree that Counterspell would be a welcome addition to the format, I highly doubt it solves much of blue's current "problem" in the format.
Spreading Seas, despite costing 1 less than all the other popular choice for land hate, is suboptimal. It draws you a card, but that’s rather irrelevant in most Tron matchups. It only hits one land and doesn’t put them behind on mana, like the other choices.
Blood Moon – Shuts off all of their extra mana producing lands and slows them down by at least 2-3 turns. Also shuts off other random utility lands like Sanctum of Ugin and Cavern of Souls EldraziTron variants.
Molten Rain – Can be recurred with Snapcaster Mage and it deals damage (important with Tron, because you need to finish the game fast).
Fullminator Mage – Can be recurred with Kolaghan’s Command and has a body.
Against Tron, you're living on borrowed time. Turning one of their lands into a "fair" land is often not good enough. Getting rid of one of their lands, or turn ALL of their lands into "fair" lands, sometimes is good enough.
Attacking Tron's land base, while applying an immediate clock seems like the best way to fight the deck. If there's anything you want to disrupt in the deck, it's their land searching effects.
Round 1 vs Kiki-Chord 2-0
This round I dominated. Landed quick Goyfs both games. Game 2 I landed Blood Moon on turn 3 and he scooped almost immediately.
Round 2 vs GR Tron 1-2
The games were close, but I desperately miss Shoal in this matchup. Also, Delver would not flip for 4 straight turns, giving him time to find an answer to Blood Moon.
Round 3 vs Grishoalbrand 1-2
First game a simple Mana Leak stopped an accelerated Through the Breach and my Goyf cleaned up. Game 2 I had a Denial for the first Goryo he attempted, but nothing for the Through the Breach he cast next turn. Final game I Mana Leaked a Goryo, only to have to a Pact of Negation shut me out.
Round 4 vs GR Tron 1-2
Felt like a repeat of my round 2 GR Tron matchups.
I think I’m going to head back to tinkering with Shoal versions, with some amount of Sleight of Hands. I LOVE Traverse in any match that goes grindy (aside from tron), but Shoal is just too darn good at being a speed bump for anything unfair.
Apples to Oranges friend. Any hobby has a cost attached to it and as long as Magic cards are a collectible, there will always be financial decisions involved. And Jund is only one deck. If you want to play Jund, then you have to shell out the dough. Your video game example is sort of a moot point; some old NES games cost upwards of $20k for a copy and if you resign yourself to playing ONLY the most expensive game... then yes. Playing video games looks like a ripoff for the money you pay, as might buying into Jund.
If you compare Modern to Standard and Legacy, the price tag to play competitively seems reasonable.