Hello, this is attempt to create a thread that is a little unusual. I don't know exactly what this deck going to look like or even the colors. But "I Freaken love puzzles"(Jace Beleren). At the end of the day magic is just one big puzzle. I think that we can use math to create the most optimal standard deck. Based on mtg gold fish's standard meta we can get a better representation of what the meta looks like exactly and how to fight it.
To start with I looked at how many removal spells a deck run's the average deck run's only 6.673%. so if we don't run any creatures we blank 6% of there deck there's only a 56.57% chance that there will be one removal spell in there opening hand. But the longer the game goes on the more likely there going to draw dead cards and then we start to beat them in card advantage(reflector mage wasn't counted as removal). Its things like this that I'm looking for a strategy and then the advantage to that strategy.
If I run Radiant flames in a three color deck it kills 41.66% of all creatures in bant company (all of witch have cmc 3 or less). But it only kills one creature in UR control or 1.66% of cards in the deck. but bant company is 15.16% of the meta and UR control is only 3.86% of the meta. giving in a meta of bant company and UR control(with the same percent) radiant flames is going to be poor against 1 in every 5 decks. so do we main deck radiant flames? once we calculate the percent of creatures that are in the meta that die to radiant flames then we might consider running it and then how many. Or maybe languish is better with out the 3 color requirement.
Hopefully after a while a deck starts to form for different strategies that we calculate to be superior. I'm predicting that the deck will end up being some kind of three color control deck just to start in a direction.
Atarka's command doesn't seem like its worth it. But splashing white I thing might be a good idea for removal (aka Declaration in stone). But it looks like we already have enough quality cards that it's not worth it to make our mana base worth it.
Todd's new list looks a lot better than the first list. But why no Fiery impulse seems better than return and anticipate. The negates and dispels in the board look nice to.
Avecyns judgment is madness card 5-8 because we can only play 4 fiery temper and we just need more for our enablers. Like Jace, Ruin diver and Thing in the Ice. If it proves that tempo is more important than card advantage we can play just the wind (which can't be copied with Goolgles).
On another note I'm worried about the threat density of standard with threats ranging from enchantments, lands, creatures and planes walkers. And all of our removal being condishinal I feel like this deck might fail because of the threat diversity. (Matbe try the madness counter spell) just a thought that we need to be worried about.
What do you guys think that the number on thing in the ice there should be in the deck. I haven't gotten much play with it should it be four 3? Or even two?
What do you guys think of brain in a jar the second ability being able to filter the top of your deck if you don't have instants or sourcerys in hand seems better than googles. getting to play a magmatic insight the turn it comes down seems good. I prefer it over googles, googles just comes down to late and doesn't do anything unless you have somthing in hand for it. I know that copying is a big deal but it just seems like over kill to me. Just some thoughts.
I think thing in the ice is better suited in a U/R prowess aggro deck the we got to see a little of after oath of the gate watch. The problem with playing thing in the ice is that it makes us give up our greatest advantage as a control deck the dead removal spells in our opponents hands. This can also be good because it will slow our openents board development down but it puts us back on card advantage and might allow our opponents to do somthing with there dead card. The successful control decks that I'm seeing are running planswalkers instead of creatures. The removal in this environment is really good so good that every deck is going to play a lot of it. This makes running only 7-8 creatures really unpleasant. There are three ways to solve this 1. Match the removal one for one with counter spells 2. Run more creatures 3. Live with it creatures die to removal. I don't personally don't like any of these but if i had to pick one it whould be that it's just going to die most of the time it's like jace he dies a lot but when he flips he's really good. My sungestion run more jace, jace unraveler of secrets is really good and also obnicsulis the walkers that give you enogh card advantage to just take games over.
Is it just or is Courser of Kruphix looking better and better the more that I think about it. But I'm not seeing it in any lists. Is there a reason why I'm not seeing it in any lists that I'm missing.
IDK if it's a good idea to play flip jace because he's not as easy to flip, but he has proven his power level. (Just some thought) I'm exited for the future of this deck (maybe after the eldrazi get banned).
Something to note, Bant Company/Knightfall actually have a good match-up against the Eldrazi decks. It may not be terribly one sided, but we're one of the few decks that don't struggle against them.
This might be one of the few decks that can get big enough to block down early enough. But only if e can get a turn one mana dork. We can probably only beat them consistently if there on a slower draw (aka no turn two thought knout seer). But we can board in worship to beat them post board. I don't see this deck being better then eldrazi right now at least. But good point.
Now that Splinter Twin is banned (R.I.P Twin) I've been looking for an alternitive modern deck. And Knightfall looks like a pretty good alternitive It might even fill the hole that Twin left in the meta. This deck seems to solve some of the problems that Twin had, Twin splashed black or green to play tarmogoyf or tasigur in order to fight midrange stompy decks and we have no shortage of good creatures to block with.
Twin chould win pre-board without the combo but our deck can do it much better Maybe we should consider running the retreats in the side board and only playing the combo when it's favrable, to catch our opponents off guard. Just like how twin could board the combo out we might want to board the combo in and just be a bant collected deck pre-board.
I think that the deck chould be teir one and that twin was just holding it down as the superior combo deck.
This is the list I have so far I haven't been able to play with it so far but hopefully soon.
Spells:
4 path to exile
4 collected company
3 retreat to coarlalhelm
creatures:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxadon Smiter
3 Birds of Paradise
4 noble hierarch
3 Geist of Saintraft
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 eternal witness
2 reflector Mage
lands:
4 Flooded strand
4 windswept Heath
1 breeding pool
1 hallowed fountain
1 temple garden
1 gavony township
1 seheri step
1 horizon canopy
4 plains
4 forest
IDK if it's a good idea to play flip jace because he's not as easy to flip, but he has proven his power level. (Just some thought) I'm exited for the future of this deck (maybe after the eldrazi get banned).
kiki jiki is the same cmc but its triple red so it cant go into grixis, and it dies to all the creature removal (aka bolt).
The splinter twin shell is already designed to be a proactive reactive combo deck. being hit with emrekul isn't technically lethal but its pretty game ending and snap and or bolt finish it out.
I'm a former twin player trying to find a deck that can play anything like twin. I was wondering what you guys would think about taking the grixsis twin shell and putting in four emrekul and four through the breach instead of the twin combo. Please any advice would help I just don't find modern fun without a highly interactive combo deck.
Is anyone thinking of playing the combo of Eldrazi Diplacer, Brood monitor and cutthroat.
It chould be a pretty funny win con that your opponent won't see coming, or. Just threaten it like splinter twin in modern.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers, seems good it can get (crackling doom, roast, fiery impulse, Jeski Charm) and might even be a reason to play read the bones over painful truths.
If dark pact has proven anything cruel unltimatum is a good card. The only question is remorseless punishment close enough to see play, or does it give your opponent to much choice.
To start with I looked at how many removal spells a deck run's the average deck run's only 6.673%. so if we don't run any creatures we blank 6% of there deck there's only a 56.57% chance that there will be one removal spell in there opening hand. But the longer the game goes on the more likely there going to draw dead cards and then we start to beat them in card advantage(reflector mage wasn't counted as removal). Its things like this that I'm looking for a strategy and then the advantage to that strategy.
If I run Radiant flames in a three color deck it kills 41.66% of all creatures in bant company (all of witch have cmc 3 or less). But it only kills one creature in UR control or 1.66% of cards in the deck. but bant company is 15.16% of the meta and UR control is only 3.86% of the meta. giving in a meta of bant company and UR control(with the same percent) radiant flames is going to be poor against 1 in every 5 decks. so do we main deck radiant flames? once we calculate the percent of creatures that are in the meta that die to radiant flames then we might consider running it and then how many. Or maybe languish is better with out the 3 color requirement.
Hopefully after a while a deck starts to form for different strategies that we calculate to be superior. I'm predicting that the deck will end up being some kind of three color control deck just to start in a direction.
Todd's new list looks a lot better than the first list. But why no Fiery impulse seems better than return and anticipate. The negates and dispels in the board look nice to.
On another note I'm worried about the threat density of standard with threats ranging from enchantments, lands, creatures and planes walkers. And all of our removal being condishinal I feel like this deck might fail because of the threat diversity. (Matbe try the madness counter spell) just a thought that we need to be worried about.
What do you guys think of brain in a jar the second ability being able to filter the top of your deck if you don't have instants or sourcerys in hand seems better than googles. getting to play a magmatic insight the turn it comes down seems good. I prefer it over googles, googles just comes down to late and doesn't do anything unless you have somthing in hand for it. I know that copying is a big deal but it just seems like over kill to me. Just some thoughts.
It's really good when we combo off because if for some reason we don't kill them we gained some life from the Courser.
This might be one of the few decks that can get big enough to block down early enough. But only if e can get a turn one mana dork. We can probably only beat them consistently if there on a slower draw (aka no turn two thought knout seer). But we can board in worship to beat them post board. I don't see this deck being better then eldrazi right now at least. But good point.
Twin chould win pre-board without the combo but our deck can do it much better Maybe we should consider running the retreats in the side board and only playing the combo when it's favrable, to catch our opponents off guard. Just like how twin could board the combo out we might want to board the combo in and just be a bant collected deck pre-board.
I think that the deck chould be teir one and that twin was just holding it down as the superior combo deck.
This is the list I have so far I haven't been able to play with it so far but hopefully soon.
Spells:
4 path to exile
4 collected company
3 retreat to coarlalhelm
creatures:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxadon Smiter
3 Birds of Paradise
4 noble hierarch
3 Geist of Saintraft
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 eternal witness
2 reflector Mage
lands:
4 Flooded strand
4 windswept Heath
1 breeding pool
1 hallowed fountain
1 temple garden
1 gavony township
1 seheri step
1 horizon canopy
4 plains
4 forest
IDK if it's a good idea to play flip jace because he's not as easy to flip, but he has proven his power level. (Just some thought) I'm exited for the future of this deck (maybe after the eldrazi get banned).
The splinter twin shell is already designed to be a proactive reactive combo deck. being hit with emrekul isn't technically lethal but its pretty game ending and snap and or bolt finish it out.
It chould be a pretty funny win con that your opponent won't see coming, or. Just threaten it like splinter twin in modern.
If dark pact has proven anything cruel unltimatum is a good card. The only question is remorseless punishment close enough to see play, or does it give your opponent to much choice.