Yeah, you sure did analyze it well.
I agree with the "dead card issue" of point 1 and I was thinking to some changes to the original list you posted.
Point 2: it checks the p/t when narcomoeba enters the battlefield so it returning trigger will go on the stack before it becomes a 2/3 and of we have multiples swords they will activate...I'm quite sure.
Point 3: you are definetly right about the graveyard hate problem, I honestly didn't think about it well, I was just thinking to the interactions between the foundry and our other artifacts.
I will try and goldfish something in this direction and write down some thoughts. I also think that the dream of us all is that of having A Singularity Architect brew...
EDIT: I forgot to mention, and I don't if you realized it, that with Leyline and shaku in play we don't need Mesmeric Orb If we have the thopter Meek engine. We can just go infinite life and mana...
I'm not 100% sure that it works, but I may have found a way to give to the list with Leyline of Singularity that interactive twist that can make this deck win after game 1.
The card is Sword of the Meek.
With Narcomoeba being played on the battlefield it returns also on the battlefield attacched to it, but we can tap it also to have 1 mana more with the shaku.
If more Swords enter the battlefield at the same time the other ones die, so we should use the stack to tap the first sword right after entering the battlefield to untap the shaku and get 1 mana, then we make the second sword enter the battlefield sacrifice the first one and go on. We can have up to 4 additional mana each Narcomoeba we have. If slow play was still a problem...
But the real interesting thing is that were can actually have maybe 1 copy of Thopter Foundry in the mainboard and some other (2 or 3) in the side, so we can rearrange our plans to a more control deck If needed, maybe also without the Leylines.
I really like the 4 horsemen way and I think that can be one of the funniest decks in modern with a tuned brew.
Crunkyeah- You are the one who's testing hand the deck, so I do believe everything you say. I just pointed out how you could actively do something else than remanding on opponent's turn. I was thinking of an alternative situation in which for example they are going to be lethal and we have just an atlas with some counters out, because he managed to crash the combo, and we eventually manage to draw both a bunch of card out of atlas (for example dramatic reversal and runeflare) so we can for 3 mana deal like 10+ damage before they attack. It's something we must take in consideration imho, because not always we have all the right dishes on the table.
But, again I trust you when you say "we just have to wait"...it was just another angle.
I totally agree with you for Chalice. It's the best way we can stop discard, aggro, even combo as you stated out with ad nauseam. I just think you could dare to put the full 4 of postboard ejecting all the 1cmc we have (If we have) and just grind on their new almost half reduced deck. That's exaclty something I used to do with that charge-artifact based brew I mentioned some posts before. It is just a great way to take over many archetypes in modern. Just think of top control, infect, affinity, burn....they have like twenty 1cmc spells, and we can still manipulate the counters on chalice.
Don't know probably you already thought about it, but Spellskites?
Crunkyeah- still don't understand what I was looking at when speaking of infect with Clockspinning...sorry^^
I agree with your reply, just one thing that I want to add to your comment is the way you think about your finishers. Obviously Psyche can be better against Leylines and it can be that you face a lot of those, but being able to cast runeflare or something else on opponents turns can be glorious too, that's the same reason why I thought of Pyromatics...I think it depends mostly on the meta.
I think a good way to do a better deck than an already astonishing 60/40 winning in your local meta, could be focusing on what can overall put pressure against unprepared opponents or what can overall be good except for some bad matchups.
And my last word are: we need more speed!
Xenob8- that card is sure an interesting one, don't know but maybe a 1x can be sold for it.
Anyway I think this thread should be a primer, definetly.
So...
I've tried to build something with Kiora's Follower and mana dorks or untappers and it's something that consistently ramps for tons of mana, but it's also veeeeery weak to removals. For example a Pyroclasm or a more common in mb Kolaghan's Command just kill us easily.
I will show you anyway the direction that this deck could take with a sample creaturefull list and To Arms!
Please note that this is a quick list, not a full tested one
The curve is maybe a bit high, but we have 11 turn 1 drops plus 3 bolts. Mass hysteria was my choice for more speed, we can combo off with To Arms! If we have a Kiora's Follower and with dramatic reversal also only with 2 dorks (one must be Zur-Taa druid). Primal command for more interaction, Pyromatics If we manage to have infinite mana, as much as kessig. Primeval titan is another wincon.
Obviously this list lacks of tuning and I found that is terrible if we draw wrong...Maybe I should find space for something like Serum Visions or some kind of looter or dig spell.
We can win sometimes on turn 4, but maybe I should try with ssg to apply more pressure and imprevedibility.
However it seems that the deck becomes good If we hit cards that are not of this strategy, such as primal command or primeval titan and that means that probably that one is not the right direction...
Then I thought at other solutions and I came thinking to a bunch of cards that I just couldn't stick together: Fatestitcher, Blistercoid Weird plus Mantle of Paradise or Chriptolite Rites and Monastery Swiftspear or Monastery Mentor ...and I always ended like outside dramatic reversal I could only count on Kiora's Follower to untap the scepter and that means that the way I wanted to use To Arms as alternative combo piece just isn't worth it...
I don't know maybe you all think differently:)
But,
I've found myself more and more intrigued by this explosive artifact-charge strategy and I've also reasoned about other interesting stuff that I didn't see in this thread:
Stormchaser Mage: can be a 2-3x sideboard card, to surprise the opponent after he sided out all his creature removals; can become infinetly big and has evasion and haste, which is pretty good, and can be tutored with muddle
Clockspinning: does a lot with all the counters and when you are infinite with mana it can do even more just infinite times (for example you can't die to infect and you can take down all planeswalkers)
Dismantle: it's a regular slow artifact removal which can transform a Surge Node or a useless supercharged permanent into value for another one, maybe a 1x
Runeflare Trap: don't know but seems even better than Molten psyche as finisher for this brew
Lux Cannon: similar to atlas as it charges itself and then clears the board
Throne of geth: even If you sacrifice it right after entering the battlefield, it can completely change the set up of all our artifacts
Pyromatics: another wincon which can be both tutored and imprinted If needed
It's funny because what comes out from this brewing process is something right in between two artifact based brews that I made some time ago: one was charge-centered and the other was draw-centered. I want to see If I found those lists to help the set up of this one.
I think we just have to found a stable way to interact (or just avoid disruption) for games 2 and 3 without big revolutions
I hope this can help the brewing process!
Can't wait for more results...
P.S while I was writing I noted you last reports crunkyeah
Basically this deck loses to abzan and jund and any other deck that plays Abrupt Decay or Stony Silence...
I mean, which deck which plays low cmc permanents and isn't aggro could have a fair win against abzan or jund? I think we have three different ways:
-we can accept to be tremendously inferior to these decks game 1 and add some great and specific card post board (have many bad cards so we need to add many cards in sb, such as 4 Leyline of Sanctity for example)
-we can accept to be mostly inferior but we try to have overall answers to decks that hate us starting from the mb
-we accept to lose and hope they will eventually play bad and focus main and side to answer to other matchups
Honestly I will go all for second one. Winning the first game with such a deck is usually easier and more important than with other "well known" decks. If we manage to win first game they will have to go aggresively all in with destruction in game 2 and we have to take advantage from that angle. Imagine that we have some way to interact game 1 and win against jund. They will take in all artifact hate they have and take out for sure things such as terminate and maybe bolts. If we manage to survive after they use they Abrupt decays on opals or scepters we can put a very good pressure with creatures for example, that's why I was listing Stormchaser Mage
Anyway, an alternative option that I will take in consideration is attacking the mana base with things such as Blood Moon and Spreading Seas
I like your idea!
Did you think about Crumbling Vestige and Vesuva?
Maybe can help the main strategy... Crumbling Vestige can be a 2 mana land with amulet or cobra and a three mana land with cobra and amulet.
If you have some lands but not enough for a valakut you can scapeshift for 3 Crumbling Vestige or Vesuva and have 6+ mana
Definetly!
I agree with everything you said, I will work a bit about a list and maybe goldfish a creature based list to let you have something to work on your own...
I was also thinking about a possible hybrid version of the two, just to reduce to minimum the "one way" factor, which becomes incredibly annoying after game 1
I like what you all are developing here, really....but I wanted to share with you the possibility of another twist of this interaction between isochron scepter andDramatic Reversal ...
I think that the biggest issue here is that a mass artifact removal kills us badly, and even a more specific one.
I was trying to make something work before the dramatic reversal was printed and that was a deck with Arbor Elf and/or Voyaging Satyr, Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch and Utopia Sprawl among with Kiora's Follower as untapper of Isochron Scepter with To Arms! imprinted on it.
Turn 1 land, Arbor Elf
Turn 2 land, Utopia Sprawl and Kiora's Follower
Turn 3 Isochron Scepter with either Dramatic Reversal or (in this case) a better To Arms to draw our deck and win
With dramatic reversal we can use the same engine having access also to another 4 copies of a viable turn 3 combo win.
I think that Oath of Nissa could be a good add, especially If we are building a list with 4+ planeswalkers, I always prefer Harmonize anyways...
I've seen that especially online, some people are always piloting a t&n with some results. There was even an article on channelfireball last month...
Through many matches that I played with this deck I must say I like at most a list with no Voyaging Satyrs, because they manage to be effective from turn3 as garruk and kiora do, but always the turn after they come on the battlefield, and they die to Pyroclasm. So I quit all of them to 3-4 maindeck Sylvan Caryatid, which is less a bomb, but definetly reliant in any case and gives us an easy access to splash.
I won like a ton of games with turn 2 Blood Moon, even against those superscary Eldrazis. This play is one of the best option for the current meta. Some decks simple die without an early fetch and some other are incredibly slow, while we lose at most one turn.
One of my biggest enemy was Twin, but...
Try this deck, it will give you back something for sure.
Tooth and Nail is a card everyone loves. It's difficult, but extremely satisfying to make it work. Its picture is amazing, also the newest one. It's effects embody the essence of Magic itself: put on the battlefield creatures as big as possible. An enormous card like this can only be the superstar of a deck that can exist only if build around it
Strengths:
The great amount of mana this deck can produce allows us to choose many expensive and powerful spells
It can be a mono colored deck
It can be splashed with any color without loosing in speed and intensity
It ca be very fast
It doesn’t require many lands to produce an incredible amount of mana
It’s almost non-played and it can surprise the opponent especially on game 1
Weaknesses:
It lets the opponent turn to the opponent
It’s not so much interactive
It uses many slots to mana advantage
It has a very linear and repetitive development
The History of Tooth and Nail
The history of this card and of the deck begins a while ago.
Once Darksteel, Mirrodin and Fifth Dawn were released Magic changed forever. Useless to say that for a long time almost every top 8 had Affinity decks in it (the real ones, the ones with affinity for artifacts and modular cards). Sometimes there were top 8s with 6 or 7 Affinity decks! But especially at the beginning, another deck was often present, even if in a minor quantity: Tooth and Nail. It wasn’t as quick and versatile as the other were, but you no what? It was a time bomb! If you let it ramp it didn’t forgive you. It was a disaster if 7GG were open in a turn, because with just one card you could win the game. This is specifically the deal with this deck, it’s a deck that closes with 1 card, just no set up other than a lot of mana.
This was the kind of list that was around at the beginning:
People started to fall in love with this huge strategy and this archetype was very popular among players, but its lack of versatility due to the enormous amount of mana needed to cast the powerful spells, made it disappear from the competitive scene just too early. Weenie, aggro and burn decks raised and there was no time for T&N. It did survive always in the hands of those who could be just crazy enough to use it in regular tournaments.
Here I come in the story with my personal experience. I began playing magic during the Kamigawa’s block, but I quickly fell in love with older cards, suco as Darksteel Colossus, or even Jareth, Leonine Titan and Phage the Untouchable, wonderful creatures. I could obtain pretty fast my copy of the colossus and I began playing with it in some random non competitive decks, but one day a guy at the local store told me there was a deck that could put it in play pretty easily and he told me about this great sorcery that I just bought the day after!
When I finally collected the entire list I needed for my Tooth and Nail deck I participate at my first tournament (extended, meanwhile Ravnica block was released and Magic changed forever again and more than ever). I won that tournament. It was great! I did participate to 3 extended tournaments in my city and I won 2 of them, with that deck: Tooth and Nail.
The game has changed a lot since then (ban, new cards...) and this deck didn’t play a significant role in modern format. With the introduction of strong colorless cards the Urza’s lands could do the difference even without 2 green manas and that meant logically that the faster format wasn’t including Tooth and Nail anymore.
But what makes this card so strong are strong creatures and with the releases of always more powerful creatures it becomes an even more effective card when it resolves. Therefore passionate players that never forget such archetypes have always kept in mind the idea to release T&N powers once again when the right time comes as this can be seen in some list among last years.
This one got some results:
From here we arrive straight to what we have now.
In the last year there’s a new reconsideration of this archetype.
How to play it
What is a modern T&N deck trying to do?
The main goal of the deck is trying to cast Tooth and Nail with entwine, which means we need a big amount of mana: 7GG. Once we are able to cast it, we search through our deck the two creatures we want and we put them into our hand as a result of the first effect; then we put two creatures from our hand onto the battlefield as a result of the second one. Obviously the two creatures we pick from our deck can be the same ones that we are putting onto the battlefield.
What are the best creatures to pick with Tooth and Nail's effect?
Currently, the most common combo is Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Xenagos, God of Revels. If they both mange to stay on the battlefield until the combat phase, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn gets +15/+15 and haste. There are other two creatures great combos, but this one is the most devastating and is almost impossible to stop.
How do I manage to have all that mana?
The most consistent and common way to have tons of mana is that of using cards such as Utopia Sprawl and Overgrowth to get more value from our lands and creatures like Arbor Elf and Voyaging Satyr to untap them. We can also use the devotion strategy with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and combine it with the cards above. Other ways can be the landfall development, with Lotus Cobra and Knight of Reliquary or the regular Tron ramping package (remember that this deck can't win before turn 4 with just Urza's lands).
Isn't this strategy a bit predictable?
It's true that we can't make many changes to our linear ramping system, but we should consider that the opponent is forced to stop us before letting us have tons of mana, which means use some early counters and removal necessarily, or try to be faster than we are and that is usually very difficult. Even if most of the cards have to be dedicated to mana and T&N casting, we can still adapt our last few slots to add some great "everyday" cards such as Primal Command and Acidic Slime, that are usually not considered in other decks, because of their high cmc. By doing so, we protect our main goal by getting more value from our deck and our battlefield and our opponent is always in a "following" position.
How can we interact against faster decks or bad maychups?
This deck has an incredible added value in the sideboard (focusing for a moment on the aura-untap version). We have up to 4 potential additional win coins: Blood Moon. This card gives its best against Amulet Bloom or Tron decks and is incredible effective if early casted. Usually decks that have it in the sideboard, do cast it from turn 3 (as Splinter Twin for example), but we are able to cast it easily on turn 2 without slowing (so much) our main strategy and that is great. For other matchups, we should always consider that if we can generate much mana we become a time bomb for any opponent, so if we are not going to loose the next turn or in the next two turns we should avoid to waste our few removal spells and continue on our main strategy. The sideboard is vital for some very bad matchups (for example burn).
What can I do to improve my list?
In the "Card Choice" section there are many possibilities to build the deck. The local meta is significant especially for the sideboard options, but also for some main deck slots. Looking at the competitive lists can be also helpful.
Some suggestions:
Keeping an opening hand with no 1 drops is very dangerous, especially on game 1 or against Abzan or Control in general. If our low cmc cards are not there or are discarded, it can happen that without an early play we waste our first two three turns without being able even to set up some mana. That means that we become extremely weaker.
If we are sure not to lose in the next turn and we have pretty much mana on our side, it's often better to use it to cast Harmonize over a removal spell, such as Acidic Slime or Beast Within, for two reasons:
1. We usually play not many removals and we have to keep them for critical situations. 2. Harmonize could find another removal, the finisher or even 2 cards plus another Harmonize.
Observing the development of our opponent mana, tapping and early spells casting in game 1 is even more important than winning it. If our opponent plays a lot of 1 or 2 drops we can just side in something annoying, or if he counters a lot we should consider Choke orEyes of the Wisent and if he misses constantly land drops we can sideboard in Blood Moon or even Trinisphere (for example aggro lists such as Aura Hexproof or Infect). We should study our opponent behavior even if probably we wouldn't be able to interact in game 1.
Never erase completely a card that can be helpful even if it's not 4x. I've learnt that Tooth and Nail,Harmonize, Primal Command, Acidic Slime or Beast Within are cards that shouldn't be removed completely. Even if game 3 goes with just 1Acidic Slime and 2Harmonize due to some necessary massive sideboard changes, I suggest not to remove completely these everyday options from our deck.
Remember always the different ways we can use our spells. Even Tooth and Nail can be versatile. It can "just" be a 2 cards tutor for 5GG or it can put down an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn for half its cmc or even be cast for 7GG searching for Acidic Slimes destroying an Ensnaring Bridge after the choice to take out our two main combo pieces.
We don't need many lands. Don't put more than 22-23 lands in the list or there will be more than 15-16 potential dead draws later on! Sometimes we should consider to keep opening hands with just 1 land (green mana is required anyway)
Cards Choices
These are the cards that usually appear in T&N lists.
There's a short explanation of the choices, the average number of copies (when present) and another indication which goes as follows:
A = Always present; present in every competitive list
M = Mostly chosen; sometimes can be replaced, but usually not
S = Sometimes present; an alternative depending on the meta
R = Rarely used; usually not taken in consideration; not enough tested or very specific
BB = Between main and side board; for example 1 copy in the main deck and 2 in the side
The Core
These are the three combo cards. If T&N entwined doesn’t get countered, it’s almost always a game win.
Tooth and Nail
The entire deck develops around the possibility to cast this card entwined. It will be sometimes cast for 5GG. There are many combos of two creatures that can be chosen to win a game nowadays, but remember that if we manage to put this out it’s to win right after, so exclude non "incredible" combos, especially because we will have a very small amount of free slots for those. Someone prefers to take out some copies 1 or 2 after game one, but that depends on the matchup.
4, A
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
This deck is capable of hard casting it on turn 3. It’s not this the aim of the deck, but it should reminds us that one of the strongest creatures in magic has its perfect modern home here. Obvious target of T&N its not a dead card if drawn, because it can be casted and because T&N doesn’t put creatures from deck on the battlefield, it checks our hand.
1/2, A, BB
Xenagos, God of Revels
This is the second part of the combo pack. Its best friend Emrakul gains some speed with it and closes games. It will usually enter the battlefield as an indestructible legendary enchantment, so it’s very difficult to deal with him. It’s only a 5 cmc card and can win games also without Emrakul.
1, A
The Mana Creatures
We will use creatures that untap lands. Some alternatives are regular mana dorks or walls.
Arbor Elf
First turn Arbor Elf is the best opening for this deck. Llanowar Elves with steroids. Enables tons of mana with enchanted lands.
4, A
Voyaging Satyr
Same as above, but significantly slower. Can make the difference starting from turn 3.
4, A
Wall of Roots, Sylvan Caryatid, Overgrown Battlement
Walls can defend better than any other mana dork. Roots provides mana also remaining untapped and during our opponent’s turn and its thoughness is relevant. Caryathid is better for splashing colors and solid non removable option. Battlement is in the middle, but can generate also more than 1 mana.
2/4, S
Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch
First turn needs a mana strategy in this deck. They provide mana even without the fireworks of the untapping mode. Birds over Noble for red (and black) mana and flying. Noble over birds for a more aggressive plan.
2/4, R
We can choose between a great variety of lands, but remembering that there must be many forests to be sure that Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl can be activated and that our main sideboard lock shouldn’t hit us as well.
Forest
We could use just them, but they can be also well assisted.
10 at least, A
Fetchlands
Not only for splashing colors, also to remove some later dead cards.
3/6, A
Shocklands
We can basically splash any color in this deck and some shocklands are necessary, generally RG.
1/5, A
Kessig Wolf Run
Even if not indispensable, it can be a great alternative, especially in bad matchups. With this card and some mana we could win also with Birds of Paradise.
1, M
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
We should consider the opportunities given by the devotion strategy. We will have early green creatures and green auras and this land could also be untapped.
1/2, M
Urza's lands
Even if it's probably a slower alternative, the Tron package is just too powerful not to be considered. Think that we can also mix it with the land untappers.
4, S
Planeswalkers can do really the difference in this deck as in many others, but here they are a real added mana engine.
Garruk Wildspeaker
It’s first ability is simply perfect, but also the second one should not be forgotten. It can be used as a mana or creature provider for attacking or defensive phases. Last ability can be an alternative wincoin. Our opponent has to deal with this card no matter what his strategy is. It can hit the battlefield on turn 2, raise its loyalty, untap some mana and let us cast something else on the same turn.
2/4, A
Nissa, Worldwaker
As Garruk it can fuel our mana pool easily. Maybe stronger, but a little bit slower.
1/2, M
Garruk, Primal Hunter
That kind of annoying card that causes our opponent to switch to defense immediately. Some incredible value can be taken also from its second ability (otherwise we have just Harmonize as a way to draw additional cards).
1/2, S
Kiora, Master of the Depths
This is the new entry to our list. We must consider the addition of blue splash, but this card is like another Garruk Wildspeaker and can really shake matches if not contrasted properly. Remember it can untap an enchanted land and an untapping creature at the same time.
1/4, S
The Useful Creatures
Even if the linear strategy of ramping and casting the finisher is very powerful, we still can implement our consistency with some great adds, without slowing our main plan.
Acidic slime
One of the most versatile creatures in green. It enters the battlefield starting from turn 3, which means it can let our opponent with just 1 land at the beginning of his third turn. Great main deck option against Amulet, Bogles, Affinity. Very useful in mid early, mid and late game. It has also a killing body as defender. Simply perfect.
1/3, A, BB
Eternal Witness
This card is in this deck from its first brew and this should say us something. It’s great after removals, discards and counterspells or to recast useful stuff, even T&N.
2/3, A
Scavenging Ooze
Great against graveyard based decks, can be pumped easily to switch to aggressive.
1/3, M, BB
Courser of Kruphix
It can tell us the right move to do for the next turn, while preventing us from drawing a land card when we don’t want it by playing it a turn earlier. It gets us some very useful life.
1/2, S
Oracle of Mul Daya
Same as Courser of Kruphix, but with a different effect. Can put us two lands on the battlefield in one turn
1/2, R, BB
The Useful Stuff
There are some cards that can definitely change in our favor the game. Most of them will be listed in the sideboard options.
Harmonize
This is probably the best deck for this card. Can be cast on turn 2 and give us all we need to win on the third one or do the same even in mid and later game. 3 cards for 4 mana in a deck that consistently wants 9 mana to close, means that we have average 2-3 mana open after casting it. It’s also one of the very few cards that we can use to go through our deck.
2/4, A
Primal Command
This is the card we want if we have to answer to anything. Even if we try to do everything on our own, the interaction with our opponent is often needed and this card gives us plenty of options. Life gain, removal, creature search, graveyard hate this is never a dead card.
2/3, A
Beast Within
One of the few instants we are going to cast with this deck. It’s super versatile and a great answer also against planeswalkers. There are some games where a good reading of the battlefield and this card can make the difference.
1/4, M, BB
Reap and Sow
One of the original cards of this deck. Can be an added value as a land searcher and destroyer.
2/3, R
This deck can cast expensive cmc creatures that enter the battledfield in mid early and mid game to change the match and close it. They are real alternative wincoins.
Wurmcoil Engine
One of the best creatures in modern. Can be considered an attacker or blocker, life gainer, creature destroyer and it generate also companions when dying. Also an alternative pick for T&N
1/2, M, BB
Thragtusk
A big creature with some great effects. Gains us much life and time, has an important body and becomes a two for one when it dies.
1/3, M, BB
Polukranos, World Eater
A big creature which can become immense and can enter the battlefield starting from turn 2.
1/2, S, BB
Dragonlord Atarka
Even if it’s more expensive than the others it’s the most powerful and gives us a valid finishing option. Extremely strong also as a T&N pick and against annoying creatures and planeswalkers.
1, R
Primeval Titan
This is always a good card, even in a deck that doesn’t evolve around it. Two more lands are something sweet.
1/2, R, BB
The Side Deck
The side deck of T&N is important as much as the other 60 cards. These cards are intended to be strong enough to be also placed in a main deck, but are too much specific for game 1. Some of them can definitely change a match. There's a lot of variety.
Blood Moon
This card is one of the reason why this deck can really beat any deck. The most broken deck of this format is probably Amulet Bloom, because it can win starting from turn 2, and this deck has a potential turn 2 Blood Moon which usually means a game win against them. We must not be scared to side it in, slowing our opponent and going faster through our main strategy.
1/4, A, BB
Choke
It can slow merfolk and more in general every control deck and can be cast from turn 2
2, M
Karn Liberated
Tron best turn 3 drop can be also our turn 3 drop, if we want to.
2, R
Xenagos, the Reveler
It can be another turn 2 or 3 great add in terms of speed (mana) and battlefield power (tokens)
1/2, R
Eyes of the Wisent
Makes our opponent think twice before trying to counter our spells.
2/3, S
Chalice of the Void
This is one of the best sideboard cards among with Blood Moon. Always a good choice, stops 0 cmc spells and else.
2/4, R
Trinisphere
A turn 2 trinisphere in a deck that is almost unaffected by it can be a real upgrade, especially against low cmc spells based decks.
2/3, R
Leyline of Sanctity
Even if we preventively have to splash white to be sure not to have a dead pick in hand, this can be the ultimate card in some matchups. Avoids discarding, bolts and other targeting dangers.
2/3, R
I like this CoCo style of your deck, I also do believe that it's a great option!
Did you test it?
I think that the only one big problem if we consider an Enduring Renewal combo deck with so many creatures, we can have the repeating problem of not ending the game in the first 3-4 turns for some reasons (counters, removals or discarding) and not being able to recover because we can't manage to draw a non creature card....at the same time our opponent knows every card in our hand.
This is why I personally prefer brews with a less amount of creatures, because a game can also go on with an active Enduring Renewal.
Hi!
Even if it's a month that people lost interest in this thread I want to share my opinions.
I've been creating new lists for Enduring Renewal since it has been reprinted back in 2007 (or 2006?)
One of my favorite cards of all time, its second name is "Combo".
I think we must consider that the core of the combo consist in only 3 cards and just one color, white, everything else can be set up looking on what our local metagame is...
Sometimes you can just put a bunch of Lightning Bolts or some removals, like a Path to Exile and Abrupt Decays and for this combo deck is just enough to win, but some other times you have to take other elements in consideration.
For example I've seen that in this thread you decided for cards such as Blood Artist and Zulaport Cutthroat, but I think they are just what puts this deck on a normal level and this deck should do better. If you rely on easy removable creatures you exclude the possibility of having a combo which relies on non removable creatures.
We also should have the possibility to play with an active Enduring Renewal and no creatures in hand or on the battlefield, unable to draw them regularly. In this case for example Postmortem Lunge is perfect!
Thinking turn by turn I'd like to say that perfect cards are:
turn1 Altar of the Brood, Wild Cantor or Ancient Stirrings (if we splash green), Serum VisionsSleight of Hand(if we splash blue), Mox Opal (for an artifact based deck) or even Endless One
turn 2 Hangarback Walker, Pentad Prism or a combination of the others above
turn 3 same as above or Enduring Renewal and goodbye
turn 4 Enduring Renewal and goodbye
Hi everyone!
I'm italian and I think "in a Magic(al) way" since 2005...
I've been following the forum since a couple of years and now I'm also a new user...
You did and still do a great job in this forum everyday!
Wonderful community!
I agree with the "dead card issue" of point 1 and I was thinking to some changes to the original list you posted.
Point 2: it checks the p/t when narcomoeba enters the battlefield so it returning trigger will go on the stack before it becomes a 2/3 and of we have multiples swords they will activate...I'm quite sure.
Point 3: you are definetly right about the graveyard hate problem, I honestly didn't think about it well, I was just thinking to the interactions between the foundry and our other artifacts.
I will try and goldfish something in this direction and write down some thoughts. I also think that the dream of us all is that of having A Singularity Architect brew...
EDIT: I forgot to mention, and I don't if you realized it, that with Leyline and shaku in play we don't need Mesmeric Orb If we have the thopter Meek engine. We can just go infinite life and mana...
The card is Sword of the Meek.
With Narcomoeba being played on the battlefield it returns also on the battlefield attacched to it, but we can tap it also to have 1 mana more with the shaku.
If more Swords enter the battlefield at the same time the other ones die, so we should use the stack to tap the first sword right after entering the battlefield to untap the shaku and get 1 mana, then we make the second sword enter the battlefield sacrifice the first one and go on. We can have up to 4 additional mana each Narcomoeba we have. If slow play was still a problem...
But the real interesting thing is that were can actually have maybe 1 copy of Thopter Foundry in the mainboard and some other (2 or 3) in the side, so we can rearrange our plans to a more control deck If needed, maybe also without the Leylines.
I really like the 4 horsemen way and I think that can be one of the funniest decks in modern with a tuned brew.
But, again I trust you when you say "we just have to wait"...it was just another angle.
I totally agree with you for Chalice. It's the best way we can stop discard, aggro, even combo as you stated out with ad nauseam. I just think you could dare to put the full 4 of postboard ejecting all the 1cmc we have (If we have) and just grind on their new almost half reduced deck. That's exaclty something I used to do with that charge-artifact based brew I mentioned some posts before. It is just a great way to take over many archetypes in modern. Just think of top control, infect, affinity, burn....they have like twenty 1cmc spells, and we can still manipulate the counters on chalice.
Don't know probably you already thought about it, but Spellskites?
I agree with your reply, just one thing that I want to add to your comment is the way you think about your finishers. Obviously Psyche can be better against Leylines and it can be that you face a lot of those, but being able to cast runeflare or something else on opponents turns can be glorious too, that's the same reason why I thought of Pyromatics...I think it depends mostly on the meta.
I think a good way to do a better deck than an already astonishing 60/40 winning in your local meta, could be focusing on what can overall put pressure against unprepared opponents or what can overall be good except for some bad matchups.
And my last word are: we need more speed!
Xenob8- that card is sure an interesting one, don't know but maybe a 1x can be sold for it.
Anyway I think this thread should be a primer, definetly.
I've tried to build something with Kiora's Follower and mana dorks or untappers and it's something that consistently ramps for tons of mana, but it's also veeeeery weak to removals. For example a Pyroclasm or a more common in mb Kolaghan's Command just kill us easily.
I will show you anyway the direction that this deck could take with a sample creaturefull list and To Arms!
Please note that this is a quick list, not a full tested one
LIST
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Flooded Grove
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Temple Garden
1 Primeval Titan
4 Kiora's Follower
2 Zhur-Taa Druid
4 Arbor Elf
2 Voyaging Satyr
//Spells:
2 Primal Command
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Isochron Scepter
4 Dramatic Reversal
3 To Arms!
2 Everflowing Chalice
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Mass Hysteria
1 Pyromatics
The curve is maybe a bit high, but we have 11 turn 1 drops plus 3 bolts. Mass hysteria was my choice for more speed, we can combo off with To Arms! If we have a Kiora's Follower and with dramatic reversal also only with 2 dorks (one must be Zur-Taa druid). Primal command for more interaction, Pyromatics If we manage to have infinite mana, as much as kessig. Primeval titan is another wincon.
Obviously this list lacks of tuning and I found that is terrible if we draw wrong...Maybe I should find space for something like Serum Visions or some kind of looter or dig spell.
We can win sometimes on turn 4, but maybe I should try with ssg to apply more pressure and imprevedibility.
However it seems that the deck becomes good If we hit cards that are not of this strategy, such as primal command or primeval titan and that means that probably that one is not the right direction...
Then I thought at other solutions and I came thinking to a bunch of cards that I just couldn't stick together: Fatestitcher, Blistercoid Weird plus Mantle of Paradise or Chriptolite Rites and Monastery Swiftspear or Monastery Mentor ...and I always ended like outside dramatic reversal I could only count on Kiora's Follower to untap the scepter and that means that the way I wanted to use To Arms as alternative combo piece just isn't worth it...
I don't know maybe you all think differently:)
But,
I've found myself more and more intrigued by this explosive artifact-charge strategy and I've also reasoned about other interesting stuff that I didn't see in this thread:
Stormchaser Mage: can be a 2-3x sideboard card, to surprise the opponent after he sided out all his creature removals; can become infinetly big and has evasion and haste, which is pretty good, and can be tutored with muddle
Clockspinning: does a lot with all the counters and when you are infinite with mana it can do even more just infinite times (for example you can't die to infect and you can take down all planeswalkers)
Dismantle: it's a regular slow artifact removal which can transform a Surge Node or a useless supercharged permanent into value for another one, maybe a 1x
Runeflare Trap: don't know but seems even better than Molten psyche as finisher for this brew
Lux Cannon: similar to atlas as it charges itself and then clears the board
Throne of geth: even If you sacrifice it right after entering the battlefield, it can completely change the set up of all our artifacts
Pyromatics: another wincon which can be both tutored and imprinted If needed
It's funny because what comes out from this brewing process is something right in between two artifact based brews that I made some time ago: one was charge-centered and the other was draw-centered. I want to see If I found those lists to help the set up of this one.
I think we just have to found a stable way to interact (or just avoid disruption) for games 2 and 3 without big revolutions
I hope this can help the brewing process!
Can't wait for more results...
P.S while I was writing I noted you last reports crunkyeah
Basically this deck loses to abzan and jund and any other deck that plays Abrupt Decay or Stony Silence...
I mean, which deck which plays low cmc permanents and isn't aggro could have a fair win against abzan or jund? I think we have three different ways:
-we can accept to be tremendously inferior to these decks game 1 and add some great and specific card post board (have many bad cards so we need to add many cards in sb, such as 4 Leyline of Sanctity for example)
-we can accept to be mostly inferior but we try to have overall answers to decks that hate us starting from the mb
-we accept to lose and hope they will eventually play bad and focus main and side to answer to other matchups
Honestly I will go all for second one. Winning the first game with such a deck is usually easier and more important than with other "well known" decks. If we manage to win first game they will have to go aggresively all in with destruction in game 2 and we have to take advantage from that angle. Imagine that we have some way to interact game 1 and win against jund. They will take in all artifact hate they have and take out for sure things such as terminate and maybe bolts. If we manage to survive after they use they Abrupt decays on opals or scepters we can put a very good pressure with creatures for example, that's why I was listing Stormchaser Mage
Anyway, an alternative option that I will take in consideration is attacking the mana base with things such as Blood Moon and Spreading Seas
Did you think about Crumbling Vestige and Vesuva?
Maybe can help the main strategy... Crumbling Vestige can be a 2 mana land with amulet or cobra and a three mana land with cobra and amulet.
If you have some lands but not enough for a valakut you can scapeshift for 3 Crumbling Vestige or Vesuva and have 6+ mana
What do you think?
I agree with everything you said, I will work a bit about a list and maybe goldfish a creature based list to let you have something to work on your own...
I was also thinking about a possible hybrid version of the two, just to reduce to minimum the "one way" factor, which becomes incredibly annoying after game 1
Meanwhile I will follow your reports
I think that the biggest issue here is that a mass artifact removal kills us badly, and even a more specific one.
I was trying to make something work before the dramatic reversal was printed and that was a deck with Arbor Elf and/or Voyaging Satyr, Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch and Utopia Sprawl among with Kiora's Follower as untapper of Isochron Scepter with To Arms! imprinted on it.
Turn 1 land, Arbor Elf
Turn 2 land, Utopia Sprawl and Kiora's Follower
Turn 3 Isochron Scepter with either Dramatic Reversal or (in this case) a better To Arms to draw our deck and win
With dramatic reversal we can use the same engine having access also to another 4 copies of a viable turn 3 combo win.
What do you think?
I've seen that especially online, some people are always piloting a t&n with some results. There was even an article on channelfireball last month...
Through many matches that I played with this deck I must say I like at most a list with no Voyaging Satyrs, because they manage to be effective from turn3 as garruk and kiora do, but always the turn after they come on the battlefield, and they die to Pyroclasm. So I quit all of them to 3-4 maindeck Sylvan Caryatid, which is less a bomb, but definetly reliant in any case and gives us an easy access to splash.
I won like a ton of games with turn 2 Blood Moon, even against those superscary Eldrazis. This play is one of the best option for the current meta. Some decks simple die without an early fetch and some other are incredibly slow, while we lose at most one turn.
One of my biggest enemy was Twin, but...
Try this deck, it will give you back something for sure.
Tooth and Nail is a card everyone loves. It's difficult, but extremely satisfying to make it work. Its picture is amazing, also the newest one. It's effects embody the essence of Magic itself: put on the battlefield creatures as big as possible. An enormous card like this can only be the superstar of a deck that can exist only if build around it
Strengths:
Weaknesses:
The history of this card and of the deck begins a while ago.
Once Darksteel, Mirrodin and Fifth Dawn were released Magic changed forever. Useless to say that for a long time almost every top 8 had Affinity decks in it (the real ones, the ones with affinity for artifacts and modular cards). Sometimes there were top 8s with 6 or 7 Affinity decks! But especially at the beginning, another deck was often present, even if in a minor quantity: Tooth and Nail. It wasn’t as quick and versatile as the other were, but you no what? It was a time bomb! If you let it ramp it didn’t forgive you. It was a disaster if 7GG were open in a turn, because with just one card you could win the game. This is specifically the deal with this deck, it’s a deck that closes with 1 card, just no set up other than a lot of mana.
This was the kind of list that was around at the beginning:
10 Forest
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Duplicant
4 Eternal Witness
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelion
1 Viridian Shaman
2 Oblivion Stone
4 Reap and Sow
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Talisman of Impulse
4 Tooth and Nail
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Duplicant
4 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Mephidross Vampire
1 Mindslaver
4 Plow Under
2 Sundering Titan
People started to fall in love with this huge strategy and this archetype was very popular among players, but its lack of versatility due to the enormous amount of mana needed to cast the powerful spells, made it disappear from the competitive scene just too early. Weenie, aggro and burn decks raised and there was no time for T&N. It did survive always in the hands of those who could be just crazy enough to use it in regular tournaments.
Here I come in the story with my personal experience. I began playing magic during the Kamigawa’s block, but I quickly fell in love with older cards, suco as Darksteel Colossus, or even Jareth, Leonine Titan and Phage the Untouchable, wonderful creatures. I could obtain pretty fast my copy of the colossus and I began playing with it in some random non competitive decks, but one day a guy at the local store told me there was a deck that could put it in play pretty easily and he told me about this great sorcery that I just bought the day after!
When I finally collected the entire list I needed for my Tooth and Nail deck I participate at my first tournament (extended, meanwhile Ravnica block was released and Magic changed forever again and more than ever). I won that tournament. It was great! I did participate to 3 extended tournaments in my city and I won 2 of them, with that deck: Tooth and Nail.
This was my list:
The deck wasn't played so much during the last years of extended.
When Modern made its appearance in Magic universe, some people tried again. There were some lists with post lands like this one:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eye of Ugin
10 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Vesuva
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Magus of the Candelabra
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Painter's Servant
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Urabrask the Hidden
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Rampant Growth
3 Scapeshift
3 Tooth and Nail
2 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
4 Nature's Claim
1 Oblivion Stone
4 Plow Under
1 Sundering Titan
1 Terastodon
1 Tooth and Nail
3 Trinisphere
The game has changed a lot since then (ban, new cards...) and this deck didn’t play a significant role in modern format. With the introduction of strong colorless cards the Urza’s lands could do the difference even without 2 green manas and that meant logically that the faster format wasn’t including Tooth and Nail anymore.
But what makes this card so strong are strong creatures and with the releases of always more powerful creatures it becomes an even more effective card when it resolves. Therefore passionate players that never forget such archetypes have always kept in mind the idea to release T&N powers once again when the right time comes as this can be seen in some list among last years.
This one got some results:
11 Forest
1 Khalni Garden
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Overgrown Battlement
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 Wall of Roots
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Explore
4 Tooth and Nail
4 Expedition Map
3 Creeping Corrosion
1 Damping Matrix
1 Dismember
1 Forest
1 Karn Liberated
3 Obstinate Baloth
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Seal of Primordium
From here we arrive straight to what we have now.
In the last year there’s a new reconsideration of this archetype.
What is a modern T&N deck trying to do?
The main goal of the deck is trying to cast Tooth and Nail with entwine, which means we need a big amount of mana: 7GG. Once we are able to cast it, we search through our deck the two creatures we want and we put them into our hand as a result of the first effect; then we put two creatures from our hand onto the battlefield as a result of the second one. Obviously the two creatures we pick from our deck can be the same ones that we are putting onto the battlefield.
What are the best creatures to pick with Tooth and Nail's effect?
Currently, the most common combo is Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Xenagos, God of Revels. If they both mange to stay on the battlefield until the combat phase, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn gets +15/+15 and haste. There are other two creatures great combos, but this one is the most devastating and is almost impossible to stop.
How do I manage to have all that mana?
The most consistent and common way to have tons of mana is that of using cards such as Utopia Sprawl and Overgrowth to get more value from our lands and creatures like Arbor Elf and Voyaging Satyr to untap them. We can also use the devotion strategy with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and combine it with the cards above. Other ways can be the landfall development, with Lotus Cobra and Knight of Reliquary or the regular Tron ramping package (remember that this deck can't win before turn 4 with just Urza's lands).
How would it be a perfect development?
The best start for this deck is a firs turn Forest with Arbor Elf, a second turn Forest and Utopia Sprawl, tapping the enchanted land, untapping it generating 4 mana casting Garruk Wildspeaker or Overgrowth or Harmonize. If we begin like this we could also be able to cast by hand a turn 3-4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn drawn too early.
Isn't this strategy a bit predictable?
It's true that we can't make many changes to our linear ramping system, but we should consider that the opponent is forced to stop us before letting us have tons of mana, which means use some early counters and removal necessarily, or try to be faster than we are and that is usually very difficult. Even if most of the cards have to be dedicated to mana and T&N casting, we can still adapt our last few slots to add some great "everyday" cards such as Primal Command and Acidic Slime, that are usually not considered in other decks, because of their high cmc. By doing so, we protect our main goal by getting more value from our deck and our battlefield and our opponent is always in a "following" position.
How can we interact against faster decks or bad maychups?
This deck has an incredible added value in the sideboard (focusing for a moment on the aura-untap version). We have up to 4 potential additional win coins: Blood Moon. This card gives its best against Amulet Bloom or Tron decks and is incredible effective if early casted. Usually decks that have it in the sideboard, do cast it from turn 3 (as Splinter Twin for example), but we are able to cast it easily on turn 2 without slowing (so much) our main strategy and that is great. For other matchups, we should always consider that if we can generate much mana we become a time bomb for any opponent, so if we are not going to loose the next turn or in the next two turns we should avoid to waste our few removal spells and continue on our main strategy. The sideboard is vital for some very bad matchups (for example burn).
What can I do to improve my list?
In the "Card Choice" section there are many possibilities to build the deck. The local meta is significant especially for the sideboard options, but also for some main deck slots. Looking at the competitive lists can be also helpful.
Some suggestions:
These are the cards that usually appear in T&N lists.
There's a short explanation of the choices, the average number of copies (when present) and another indication which goes as follows:
Tooth and Nail
The entire deck develops around the possibility to cast this card entwined. It will be sometimes cast for 5GG. There are many combos of two creatures that can be chosen to win a game nowadays, but remember that if we manage to put this out it’s to win right after, so exclude non "incredible" combos, especially because we will have a very small amount of free slots for those. Someone prefers to take out some copies 1 or 2 after game one, but that depends on the matchup.
4, A
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
This deck is capable of hard casting it on turn 3. It’s not this the aim of the deck, but it should reminds us that one of the strongest creatures in magic has its perfect modern home here. Obvious target of T&N its not a dead card if drawn, because it can be casted and because T&N doesn’t put creatures from deck on the battlefield, it checks our hand.
1/2, A, BB
Xenagos, God of Revels
This is the second part of the combo pack. Its best friend Emrakul gains some speed with it and closes games. It will usually enter the battlefield as an indestructible legendary enchantment, so it’s very difficult to deal with him. It’s only a 5 cmc card and can win games also without Emrakul.
1, A
Arbor Elf
First turn Arbor Elf is the best opening for this deck. Llanowar Elves with steroids. Enables tons of mana with enchanted lands.
4, A
Voyaging Satyr
Same as above, but significantly slower. Can make the difference starting from turn 3.
4, A
Wall of Roots, Sylvan Caryatid, Overgrown Battlement
Walls can defend better than any other mana dork. Roots provides mana also remaining untapped and during our opponent’s turn and its thoughness is relevant. Caryathid is better for splashing colors and solid non removable option. Battlement is in the middle, but can generate also more than 1 mana.
2/4, S
Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch
First turn needs a mana strategy in this deck. They provide mana even without the fireworks of the untapping mode. Birds over Noble for red (and black) mana and flying. Noble over birds for a more aggressive plan.
2/4, R
Magus of the Candelabra, Kiora's Follower
Another untapping option entering on the first turn and a stronger but multicolored Voyaging Satyr.
1/4, R
Lotus Cobra
If we want to choose the landfall option this is the right card.
4, R
Knight of the Reliquary
Always in a landfall optic. Remember that this card has a new wonderful friend (Retreat to Coralhelm)
The trick we can do with our lands is thanks to these cards, which give us the opportunity to generate so much mana from just a few lands.
Utopia Sprawl
Super cheap, it provides more mana starting from turn 2, also indispensable for color splashes. Enchants just forests.
4, A
Overgrowth
Great mana advantage from this card, which can be doubled easily. Enchants any land, but provides only green mana.
3/4, A
Fertile Ground
Weaker than the other two, but still useful. Great for heavily splashed lists and as an alternative turn 2 drop.
2/3, M, BB
These above are the quickest and the most consistent. The other are usually not played at all. I will just list them.
Dawn's Reflection, Sheltered Aerie, Verdant Haven.
We can choose between a great variety of lands, but remembering that there must be many forests to be sure that Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl can be activated and that our main sideboard lock shouldn’t hit us as well.
Forest
We could use just them, but they can be also well assisted.
10 at least, A
Fetchlands
Not only for splashing colors, also to remove some later dead cards.
3/6, A
Shocklands
We can basically splash any color in this deck and some shocklands are necessary, generally RG.
1/5, A
Kessig Wolf Run
Even if not indispensable, it can be a great alternative, especially in bad matchups. With this card and some mana we could win also with Birds of Paradise.
1, M
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
We should consider the opportunities given by the devotion strategy. We will have early green creatures and green auras and this land could also be untapped.
1/2, M
Urza's lands
Even if it's probably a slower alternative, the Tron package is just too powerful not to be considered. Think that we can also mix it with the land untappers.
4, S
Other basics, painlands, checklands
If we want to be sure to have other opened options.
1/3, R
Planeswalkers can do really the difference in this deck as in many others, but here they are a real added mana engine.
Garruk Wildspeaker
It’s first ability is simply perfect, but also the second one should not be forgotten. It can be used as a mana or creature provider for attacking or defensive phases. Last ability can be an alternative wincoin. Our opponent has to deal with this card no matter what his strategy is. It can hit the battlefield on turn 2, raise its loyalty, untap some mana and let us cast something else on the same turn.
2/4, A
Nissa, Worldwaker
As Garruk it can fuel our mana pool easily. Maybe stronger, but a little bit slower.
1/2, M
Garruk, Primal Hunter
That kind of annoying card that causes our opponent to switch to defense immediately. Some incredible value can be taken also from its second ability (otherwise we have just Harmonize as a way to draw additional cards).
1/2, S
Kiora, Master of the Depths
This is the new entry to our list. We must consider the addition of blue splash, but this card is like another Garruk Wildspeaker and can really shake matches if not contrasted properly. Remember it can untap an enchanted land and an untapping creature at the same time.
1/4, S
Even if the linear strategy of ramping and casting the finisher is very powerful, we still can implement our consistency with some great adds, without slowing our main plan.
Acidic slime
One of the most versatile creatures in green. It enters the battlefield starting from turn 3, which means it can let our opponent with just 1 land at the beginning of his third turn. Great main deck option against Amulet, Bogles, Affinity. Very useful in mid early, mid and late game. It has also a killing body as defender. Simply perfect.
1/3, A, BB
Eternal Witness
This card is in this deck from its first brew and this should say us something. It’s great after removals, discards and counterspells or to recast useful stuff, even T&N.
2/3, A
Scavenging Ooze
Great against graveyard based decks, can be pumped easily to switch to aggressive.
1/3, M, BB
Courser of Kruphix
It can tell us the right move to do for the next turn, while preventing us from drawing a land card when we don’t want it by playing it a turn earlier. It gets us some very useful life.
1/2, S
Oracle of Mul Daya
Same as Courser of Kruphix, but with a different effect. Can put us two lands on the battlefield in one turn
1/2, R, BB
There are some cards that can definitely change in our favor the game. Most of them will be listed in the sideboard options.
Harmonize
This is probably the best deck for this card. Can be cast on turn 2 and give us all we need to win on the third one or do the same even in mid and later game. 3 cards for 4 mana in a deck that consistently wants 9 mana to close, means that we have average 2-3 mana open after casting it. It’s also one of the very few cards that we can use to go through our deck.
2/4, A
Primal Command
This is the card we want if we have to answer to anything. Even if we try to do everything on our own, the interaction with our opponent is often needed and this card gives us plenty of options. Life gain, removal, creature search, graveyard hate this is never a dead card.
2/3, A
Beast Within
One of the few instants we are going to cast with this deck. It’s super versatile and a great answer also against planeswalkers. There are some games where a good reading of the battlefield and this card can make the difference.
1/4, M, BB
Reap and Sow
One of the original cards of this deck. Can be an added value as a land searcher and destroyer.
2/3, R
Chromatic Star, Chromatic Sphere, Expedition Map, Sylvan Scrying, Ancient Stirrings
If we choose the Tron style these cards are a must.
3/4, S
This deck can cast expensive cmc creatures that enter the battledfield in mid early and mid game to change the match and close it. They are real alternative wincoins.
Wurmcoil Engine
One of the best creatures in modern. Can be considered an attacker or blocker, life gainer, creature destroyer and it generate also companions when dying. Also an alternative pick for T&N
1/2, M, BB
Thragtusk
A big creature with some great effects. Gains us much life and time, has an important body and becomes a two for one when it dies.
1/3, M, BB
Polukranos, World Eater
A big creature which can become immense and can enter the battlefield starting from turn 2.
1/2, S, BB
Dragonlord Atarka
Even if it’s more expensive than the others it’s the most powerful and gives us a valid finishing option. Extremely strong also as a T&N pick and against annoying creatures and planeswalkers.
1, R
Primeval Titan
This is always a good card, even in a deck that doesn’t evolve around it. Two more lands are something sweet.
1/2, R, BB
The side deck of T&N is important as much as the other 60 cards. These cards are intended to be strong enough to be also placed in a main deck, but are too much specific for game 1. Some of them can definitely change a match. There's a lot of variety.
Blood Moon
This card is one of the reason why this deck can really beat any deck. The most broken deck of this format is probably Amulet Bloom, because it can win starting from turn 2, and this deck has a potential turn 2 Blood Moon which usually means a game win against them. We must not be scared to side it in, slowing our opponent and going faster through our main strategy.
1/4, A, BB
Choke
It can slow merfolk and more in general every control deck and can be cast from turn 2
2, M
Creeping Corrosion, Nature's Claim, Naturalize, Ancient Grudge (etc...)
After many years the deck to beat is always affinity and we have only to choose the right cards to knock it out.
2/4, A
Firespout
It’s our Pyroclasm, but can hit what we need depending on our battlefield state.
2/3, S
Creeping Mold
More removals during difficult games can make the difference. Remember that it can’t take down creatures and planeswalkers.
2/3, S
Lightning Bolt
If we splash red this card must be at least considered
2/3, R
Obstinate Baloth
Alternative to Thragtusk with a potential turn 2 casting, resistant to Lightning Bolt, discarding friend and life gainer.
1/2, S
Spellskite
It’s always one of the best cards against specific removal spells.
1/2, S, BB
Nylea's Disciple
Very useful against aggro and burn, provides us some life and has a solid body.
1/2, R
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Lets us the pleasure of casting T&N undisturbed.
1 to 2, S
Karn Liberated
Tron best turn 3 drop can be also our turn 3 drop, if we want to.
2, R
Xenagos, the Reveler
It can be another turn 2 or 3 great add in terms of speed (mana) and battlefield power (tokens)
1/2, R
Eyes of the Wisent
Makes our opponent think twice before trying to counter our spells.
2/3, S
Chalice of the Void
This is one of the best sideboard cards among with Blood Moon. Always a good choice, stops 0 cmc spells and else.
2/4, R
Trinisphere
A turn 2 trinisphere in a deck that is almost unaffected by it can be a real upgrade, especially against low cmc spells based decks.
2/3, R
Leyline of Sanctity
Even if we preventively have to splash white to be sure not to have a dead pick in hand, this can be the ultimate card in some matchups. Avoids discarding, bolts and other targeting dangers.
2/3, R
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Stomping Ground
2 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Acidic Slime
4 Arbor Elf
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
4 Voyaging Satyr
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
3 Primal Command
4 Tooth and Nail
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
4 Overgrowth
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Blood Moon
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Choke
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Feed the Clan
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Nature's Claim
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Rending Volley
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Arbor Elf
4 Voyaging Satyr
1 Eternal Witness
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Thragtusk
1 Acidic Slime
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Beast Within
4 Overgrowth
4 Harmonize
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Primal Command
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Tooth and Nail
2 Nature's Claim
2 Beast Within
4 Bramblecrush
2 Creeping Mold
1 Thragtusk
2 Acidic Slime
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Here is the article with some videos of different matchups
4 Stomping Ground
1 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Acidic Slime
4 Arbor Elf
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Voyaging Satyr
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
3 Primal Command
4 Tooth and Nail
2 Fertile Ground
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Overgrowth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Blood Moon
2 Choke
1 Creeping Corrosion
3 Firespout
4 Nature's Claim
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
There's a short but interesting interview to Verhulst by Nicolas Cuenca
2 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Spellskite
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 All Is Dust
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
2 Oblivion Stone
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Tooth and Nail
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Nature's Claim
2 Pyroclasm
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Rending Volley
1 Shatterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thragtusk
There's also an article with some videos by Frank Lepore
Did you test it?
I think that the only one big problem if we consider an Enduring Renewal combo deck with so many creatures, we can have the repeating problem of not ending the game in the first 3-4 turns for some reasons (counters, removals or discarding) and not being able to recover because we can't manage to draw a non creature card....at the same time our opponent knows every card in our hand.
This is why I personally prefer brews with a less amount of creatures, because a game can also go on with an active Enduring Renewal.
For your deck, did you think about Summoner's Pact, especially for Wild Cantor but also for an unexpected Voice of Resurgence
Even if it's a month that people lost interest in this thread I want to share my opinions.
I've been creating new lists for Enduring Renewal since it has been reprinted back in 2007 (or 2006?)
One of my favorite cards of all time, its second name is "Combo".
I think we must consider that the core of the combo consist in only 3 cards and just one color, white, everything else can be set up looking on what our local metagame is...
Sometimes you can just put a bunch of Lightning Bolts or some removals, like a Path to Exile and Abrupt Decays and for this combo deck is just enough to win, but some other times you have to take other elements in consideration.
For example I've seen that in this thread you decided for cards such as Blood Artist and Zulaport Cutthroat, but I think they are just what puts this deck on a normal level and this deck should do better. If you rely on easy removable creatures you exclude the possibility of having a combo which relies on non removable creatures.
We also should have the possibility to play with an active Enduring Renewal and no creatures in hand or on the battlefield, unable to draw them regularly. In this case for example Postmortem Lunge is perfect!
Thinking turn by turn I'd like to say that perfect cards are:
turn1 Altar of the Brood, Wild Cantor or Ancient Stirrings (if we splash green), Serum Visions Sleight of Hand(if we splash blue), Mox Opal (for an artifact based deck) or even Endless One
turn 2 Hangarback Walker, Pentad Prism or a combination of the others above
turn 3 same as above or Enduring Renewal and goodbye
turn 4 Enduring Renewal and goodbye
This means that we can adjust the first turns with some other cards we want to play not damaging the combo flux.
This are cards I would consider for example for a black shell:
Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek
Plunge into Darkness
Liliana, Heretical Healer
Orzhov Charm
and even
Surgical Extraction
Liliana of the Veil
I agree with the Johnny Syndrome problem and as soon as we think about this deck as a pot for versatile cards it can become a serious alternative.
P.s. First post, be gentle please! ^ ^
I'm italian and I think "in a Magic(al) way" since 2005...
I've been following the forum since a couple of years and now I'm also a new user...
You did and still do a great job in this forum everyday!
Wonderful community!