Planning to make yet another collection manager tool for the heck of it and to get better at programming. I thought a neat feature would be to get meta decks from somewhere and find what cards from a representative build I already had. For instance, if Jeskai Control were to come back to tier 1 in standard (hey, I can dream!), I'd be able to see at a glance in the program that I had x/75 cards in the list from a recent GP or something. If any of y'all play Hearthstone, I'm thinking kind of like what Innkeeper can do in that regard.
Tried searching Google and no luck so far. Ideally it'd be sourced from mtgtop8 or tappedout, but at this point it's more about the concept of the thing... Anyone know of anything like this?
Just sold what I had bought into on MTGO to them ($80-100) 4.5 hour turnaround on a small order the day of the B&R update?! Even for my notoriously impatient self that's great. Quite a fair offer, which with their Cape Fear Games store credit option was just enough for an SOI box. Now if only I had a time machine or lived closer to them...
Only suggestion is that there needs to be a better way to transfer the digital cards - as a new guy it felt kind of sketchy, but apparently that's just how it's done.
Oh Lord I am excited for SOI. So many good things coming for this deck... That Nahiri they spoiled, and new Avacyn among others as a top end of the curve feels like it would be awesome.
Anyway, GP Houston was...not good Ran into a wall of Bant Company and ended up going 2-4 in the main event. I was happy though - 2 wins is far better than I did at the last GP I went to! Could get around to uploading my notes, but I've iterated on the deck so much since then that so it might as well be skipped. Next test for the deck is a PPTQ/1k tournament on Saturday, which should be interesting.
In the meantime, I got 4th in an FNM with it a couple weeks ago! Going for the win this week after having to skip last week's tournament. Have any of y'all thought about splashing :symb:? Kalastria Healer and perhaps Zulaport Cutthroat are amazing for tempo in this deck. Well, still testing the latter, but the Healer is what got me the top 4 (and my first top 8 ever) Bant Company is still a challenge, as is Eldrazi Ramp, but this is quickly becoming my favorite standard deck in a [i]long[/i] time. One of the top players at my LGS (went deep into day 2 at said GP) was on Atarka Red when I played him during the FNM and I managed to comfortably outrace that deck. Reckless Bushwhacker is an All-Star, no other way to put it.
Removal is still a question mark - I feel like the deck needs [i]something[i] to answer a big threat like Dragonlord Atarka, various planeswalkers, and so on, or to stabilize after an opponent goes wide with Collected Company or the like. So what did I do? Bought the deck on MTGO along with a playset of every removal spell in standard :laugh2::laugh2: of course. Figure I could use all the extra practice I can get if I'm setting my sights on PPTQs and such... Plus Friday nights just feel weird when I can't go out to an LGS and play - this could be the solution to that. I'll always be a paper player first and foremost, but getting more (and better) practice can help I would think.
Anyway, here's the latest iteration I've played with:
Now I put it out like that, 30 creatures seems a little heavy - maybe I'll tone it down for Veteran's Sidearm or something. Thoughts? I love the idea of Stoneforge Masterwork, but it feels more like a "win more" card that doesn't help if and when I really need the extra boost.
Unless I counted wrong, this deck is missing 4 cards and all of the equipment in the main board. How many equipment are you playing. Also, I think that adding a third color without fetches is a bad idea for this deck. It's viable now with fetched and fetchable duels, but in three weeks that will be gone.
...Huh, I could've sworn the 4x Captain's Claws were in there when I posted. I blame the leprechauns. You're right: 4 equipment sometimes feels light, but that is something I'm trying to figure out. The deck honestly feels like it benefits from some form of spot removal, but how to work it in?
I get what you mean about three colors, especially post-rotation. And yet, we aren't playing three colors, not really. Our only real card is Kalastria Healer, and we play her with the Ally Encampment the vast majority of the time anyway. Mardu Charm is in that version of the sideboard, but it was just a weird idea I was tossing around - in fact, I've dropped it again in my testing. The painlands aren't rotating out yet (ORI), and are mostly there to smooth out the manabase. Could be possible to drop the actual sources other than the encampments, but I had them so I tossed them in there.
I played Stoneforge Masterwork in Goblins... the problem is that it costs 2 to equip. It IS good if you need a 5/5 for some reason (maybe vs. red decks with damage based removal).
It costs 2 to equip it, and it does nothing if you have only one creature out unless I missed something with the way the card reads. Shouldn't be too often that that scenario occurs if we're speaking in an ideal sense, and maybe that's closer to reality as I practice more, but it's happened enough that the card feels like a real liability to me.
Oh Lord I am excited for SOI. So many good things coming for this deck... That Nahiri they spoiled, and new Avacyn among others as a top end of the curve feels like it would be awesome.
Anyway, GP Houston was...not good Ran into a wall of Bant Company and ended up going 2-4 in the main event. I was happy though - 2 wins is far better than I did at the last GP I went to! Could get around to uploading my notes, but I've iterated on the deck so much since then that so it might as well be skipped. Next test for the deck is a PPTQ/1k tournament on Saturday, which should be interesting.
In the meantime, I got 4th in an FNM with it a couple weeks ago! Going for the win this week after having to skip last week's tournament. Have any of y'all thought about splashing :symb:? Kalastria Healer and perhaps Zulaport Cutthroat are amazing for tempo in this deck. Well, still testing the latter, but the Healer is what got me the top 4 (and my first top 8 ever) Bant Company is still a challenge, as is Eldrazi Ramp, but this is quickly becoming my favorite standard deck in a [i]long[/i] time. One of the top players at my LGS (went deep into day 2 at said GP) was on Atarka Red when I played him during the FNM and I managed to comfortably outrace that deck. Reckless Bushwhacker is an All-Star, no other way to put it.
Removal is still a question mark - I feel like the deck needs [i]something[i] to answer a big threat like Dragonlord Atarka, various planeswalkers, and so on, or to stabilize after an opponent goes wide with Collected Company or the like. So what did I do? Bought the deck on MTGO along with a playset of every removal spell in standard :laugh2::laugh2: of course. Figure I could use all the extra practice I can get if I'm setting my sights on PPTQs and such... Plus Friday nights just feel weird when I can't go out to an LGS and play - this could be the solution to that. I'll always be a paper player first and foremost, but getting more (and better) practice can help I would think.
Anyway, here's the latest iteration I've played with:
Now I put it out like that, 30 creatures seems a little heavy - maybe I'll tone it down for Veteran's Sidearm or something. Thoughts? I love the idea of Stoneforge Masterwork, but it feels more like a "win more" card that doesn't help if and when I really need the extra boost.
Alright, so I've done a little more theorycrafting. Still not quite as certain on the sequencing of Ally Encampment to avoid having creatures killed as I would like to be, but that's a minor question that shouldn't distract us much more.
I really like the synergy Stoneforge Masterwork can give us. Count how many +1/+1 counters you could get attaching it to something like a Kor Bladewhirl. Per Gatherer. it doesn't have to be a 100% exact match to the creature type:
1/22/2016 The bonus is only +1/+1 per applicable creature, even if it shares more than one creature type with the equipped creature. For example, if the equipped creature is a Human Shaman and you control a Human Warrior, a Goblin Shaman, and another Human Shaman, the equipped creature will get +3/+3.
Need I say more??? Especially on one of those that has types in common with Gideon or Captains' Claws tokens...
6/22/2015 The last sentence of Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh’s activated ability isn’t a separate ability. The check happens only as that activated ability resolves. You must activate the ability in order to exile Chandra and return her to the battlefield transformed, even if Chandra has already dealt 3 or more damage during the turn.
Damn it. Maybe after sideboarding in Expedite it could work, but this deck just isn't built to throw those cheap burn spells out as easily. Maybe that's the spot the Sky Climber could go in?
Alternatively, -2 Chandra and -2 Chitinous Cloak gives us our 60...
Speaking of burn spells/removal, what about Immolating Glare? It seems like a strictly better Celestial Flare and might be a solution against Thunderbreak Regent/other annoying big guys...
Based on my limited testing results so far, Munda, Ambush Leader seems to be a much better selection for the 4 CMC slot than Pia & Kiran Nalaar simply because Haste and the Ally subtype fit well with the rest of the deck. Plus that draw fixing could potentially be extremely useful in the right circumstances. Just my opinion to be fair, but I'll have to consider Pia & Kiran Nalaar for the sideboard anyway - stacking equipment on thopters is a nice bit of evasion that the deck could use against blockers, in addition to the whole "four free damage to face by sacrificing them" bit.
Interesting that you think 14 artifacts is too much, but I see your point. Initially I just had the six listed in Teebs' idea, but felt it was too few. Made Bone Saw a 4-of both because almost-free +1/+0 and enabling Surge more readily. Added the Chitinous Cloaks on a hunch that it might be decent value by adding menace on top of the +2/+2, but after testing it I agree with your assessment that it's a bit too slow. 6 mana to play and equip it is a bit of a luxury we can't quite afford in this deck. Then added the Hedron Blades because I thought adding to the toughness as well could be valuable, and the deathtouch could help in the Eldrazi matchup. It could have enabled a nice trade against a Thought-Knot Seer or the like, but maybe a little too situational. Thinking of Stoneforge Masterwork instead.
What do you think about burn/removal spells to put in the sideboard? Rending Volley feels a little too situational with the color restriction, but then again, Roast also has a restriction on it and it's not too bad, I suppose, as long as Kolaghan and Thunderbreak Regents manage to stay away
In Game 3 of Round 4 I did in fact animate the Needle Spires! (I also equipped a bonesaw to the animated land... #thedream) Ended up trading it with a Thunderbreak Regent. Not sure who won on that one, but the double strike is nice...
I'm not sure about Chandra either. I felt as if superfriends might be a nice alternate win condition for the deck, plus she seemed easy to flip in theory - just equip a bonesaw and boom, 3 damage in a turn! Nobody at my LGS was sure whether that worked the way I think it could or if it had to be the tap ability - any judges lurking around here want to confirm? In any case, she just didn't have a chance to have the impact I wanted when putting her in. Not ready to give up on her quite yet, but I am considering Chandra, Flamecaller instead, but the CMC is a little high...
Heh, better to miss these triggers now than at Comp REL It ended up not mattering in the end, but that's why we test these things - I am notorious for missing triggers in my newer decks.
Haha, that UW Control deck sounds like one I would build! I don't play MTGO though, so it wasn't me ;P Have been brainstorming a brew with Singing Bell Strike though.
Not a problem! My post from last night reads a lot more spike-y than I had perhaps intended. I love to win, but I love doing it with an interesting deck - definitely a Johnny at heart! (aka there's a reason I'm here instead of in the 4C Rally thread) I literally copy+pasted from my notes in between rounds so it might sound fairly harsh and ~serious~, but in the end I'm planning on playing a so-called "rogue" brew at a GP next week! If it's not about fun, what's the point?
Edit: Mind explaining a bit about Ally Encampment? I'm not quite sure what you mean by the second ability. Using it for "Ally color" mana is a nice tech that has saved me a few times in testing for sure and has caused consternation for opponents when they fail to take it into account, think I only have 1W open and drop a Weapons Trainer for example What do you mean about the creature going back to your hand, though? From what I can tell it isn't for things in the 'yard, but I don't see how it works, exactly. Is it just an "in response" to the burn spell going on the stack? (my favorite phrase in this game, by the way)
Thought I'd contribute another field report from FNM tonight.
Overall: The deck is cheap for this standard, it's fast, and it's rather fun to play. It can compete with the top decks in the meta, but could use some tightening up to really shine.
First, my decklist, based off of Teebs' list up the thread:
Results: 1 - 3 overall. Pretty disappointing, to be honest, but that's why we playtest More importantly, it's a great starting point. Faced a fair amount of meta-ish decks tonight for FNM, with the exception of 4C Company. Would not be surprised to see half my LGS at the GP next week, to be honest...
Deck seems solid, but land balance is a thing to watch out for. Both games I had to mull to 6, and Game 2 I should have gone to 5 - was mountain locked until t4 or 5 which could be bad.
Ran out of steam in game 3. Deflecting Palm is not enough against decks that go wide. Game 2 didn't play BFZ Gideon early enough. Even if it seems unwise, getting all the +0 blockers is important. Still could have gone either way though. Good loss.
Round 3: vs (pure colorless?) Eldrazi Ramp loss 1-2
Was too timid game 1. F**k the thopters and just go for it. Game 2 went well, but again, mountains will be the end of me. Game 3, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger happened despite getting good pressure early. Also there is a card that sacrifices all permanents under X CMC, hard counter to the deck. Should have gone Deflecting Palm with this sideboard.
Game 1 he rather effectively controlled me. The X/1 nature of most of my creatures was my downfall here. Dies to cheap removal a la Wild Slash.
Game 2 kept a 1 land hand because f**k it, why not? I also had 2 Expedition Envoys and a Bonesaw in hand so I felt I could float it. I could. Munda, Ambush Leader I picked up from the dollar rares shelf was the MVP here. Great synergy with the deck, and haste > thopters easily.
Game 3: Good tempo aside from the removal aspect again getting in the way (though not as bad as G1). Got land flooded starting t4, which doomed me.
Any thoughts on how to improve the deck? I've noticed I tend to be timid around the big blocking Eldrazi (in fear of futile attacks, who knows?) so maybe Sparkmage's Gambit? Also if there's one thing that annoyed me about the R decks I played against, it was Thunderbreak Regent. Not sure where to slot in removal, though.
Also, I know it's 64 cards, but I am not sure what to cut down here. In addition, Kor Sky Climber is a card I'd love to see in the deck somewhere, but I can't just keep putting cards in, y'know?
Never gone 4/4 on foils before, so I was already pumped to see that. Then, the big guy. Holy crap I've been debating whether he would have a place in my deck for the last two weeks, but not curious enough to grab some off TCG.
I could make a few suggestions. U/W Control is Tier 2, atm, and fits within your description. The most competitive versions of the deck use Celestial Colonnade, Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, and Vendillion Clique but you don't have to have those to be super competitive. In fact, a large portion of the deck can be purchased easily within your budget. The problem is that its a steep climb up. Some decks you can build for $50 and then make slow $10-$30 upgrades here and there. Not this deck. You will build it for $50 and then your next upgrade will cost you $200 for a playset of Snapcaster Mage or Celestial Colonnade.
Building the core for cheap? Absolutely!
Clear upgrade path? Check!
Competitive enough to take to the events you've described both in budget form and non-budget form? Bingo!
Cost of upgrade path? How many extremities are you willing to part with?
Depending on how you want to upgrade this deck, the cheapest next step would be running Ojutai's Command over Dissolve. I hesitate to suggest that upgrade because you would probably end up removing Ojutai's Command later on as well and its not so cheap that the cost is ignorable.
Next I would focus on replacing Glacial Fortress with Hallowed Fountain and Prairie Stream. That's going to help the consistency of the deck imminsely given how relatively affordable of an upgrade it is.
There are a lot of other fun decks out there. This just fits what you already have and your estimated budget. Its certainly good enough for an FNM.
I will say this though, and this is really for anyone getting into Modern, you might be surprised as to what kind of deck you finally latch on to. It is always hard starting off because of the investment you are making and you don't want it to be the wrong one. I started off with Goblins, then went to Soul Sisters, then B/W Tokens, then Stompy, then U/W Control, then Aristocrats, then my own B/r Control build, then Mono-U Tempo (Ninja/Bear/Delver). It was the last three decks I found that have been the most fun decks and the decks I am best able to pilot. I saw that to say this: Aristocrats was very easy for me to get into because of my time in B/W Tokens because of the staples that cross over. Aristocrats made my time getting into B/r Control easier, again, because of the staples. Its a lot of money to shell out $20-$25 for Path to Exile + $60 for Thoughtseize + $20 for Remand but its probably worth it. Any deck that runs Staples (U/W Control is good for that with Path and Remand being even moderatly budget obtainable). Your journey around Modern will probably take you through many decks and the more cross over cards you have, the easier it is to make that transition. One of the biggest problems people have getting into new decks is the mana base. Fetches are expensive but shocks and the new "Tangolands" or whatever can really help with that burden. Its a shame that one of the first things to get cut when building a budget deck are the lands because they are one of the most universally useful. If you ever find yourself with funds to spend on Magic, pick up lands. I find Pucatrade to be VERY helpful in this. I created a wish list of cards I want, even really expensive ones, and then just trade off old cards I no longer want. Eventually I get enough "points" and someone sends me a really expensive card out of no where and I spent zero money out of pocket to do it.
Interesting. I do love me some UW control and will be looking into this. That said...I've had a terrible RW Goblins idea in my head all day that I'm tempted to try out. I see that goblins aren't quite in the meta these days, though that hasn't stopped me in Standard...
As a Goblins player, I can tell you that Goblins is not doing very well. Tribal strategies rely on lords - lords that are small. Goblins falls apart easily with a well-timed removal spell. Merfolk can avoid this because blue opens up disruption in the form of counterspells and Spreading Seas. Goblins cannot unless you run land destruction, which can be crippling but is slow you down a lot because the cheapest Modern LD gets is 3 cmc(at least, that's the case for good LD), which is when you want to be dropping more creatures, not time walking your opponent, which is surprisingly ineffective in this deck. I've lost countless games by swinging for lethal, and then having my opponent remove Goblin Chieftain and getting killed in the next few turns because I need to play defense, which is not what a mono-red deck (or any aggro deck, for that matter) wants to be doing. I suggest sticking with UW Control. It can be built with any budget and is still incredibly competitive. $50 UW Control decks 4-0ing dailies or winning FNM's is not unheard of. Goblins, on the other hand, can just get blanked by drawing one too many lands. Goblins is fun for the first 9-12 months, but gets really old after a while. I have a mono red list I can send you if you want to see it.
Hmmm, I'll definitely look into building UW control for sure, then - I do love that archetype after all, and if it can really be that viable on a budget, why not? Speaking of, you wouldn't happen to have one of those $50 lists handy, would you? I'm still in the phase of even trying to find out how vibrant the local modern scene is. While I'm definitely comfortable getting the list you suggested over time (including snapcasters, eventually), if I could take it for a spin under that it would be awesome.
My name is Charles, and (if you couldn't guess) I'm from Texas. Only been playing Magic seriously since DTK standard, but I've made it out to FNM more often than not. Also been to GP DFW this year. I'm pretty competitive when it comes down to it, but I like competing on my terms - decks that I've had more of a hand in building than just finding a list somewhere. Sometimes it works well, most of the time it doesn't. But hey, having fun is what it's about, isn't it?
I was that guy who was running a UW control shell the week everyone at my LGS seemed to be playing Elves
Anyway, found this place when a friend suggested I come here to check out the Modern primers after I mentioned how bad standard prices were getting. Loads to learn, but it's going to be good.
I could make a few suggestions. U/W Control is Tier 2, atm, and fits within your description. The most competitive versions of the deck use Celestial Colonnade, Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, and Vendillion Clique but you don't have to have those to be super competitive. In fact, a large portion of the deck can be purchased easily within your budget. The problem is that its a steep climb up. Some decks you can build for $50 and then make slow $10-$30 upgrades here and there. Not this deck. You will build it for $50 and then your next upgrade will cost you $200 for a playset of Snapcaster Mage or Celestial Colonnade.
Building the core for cheap? Absolutely!
Clear upgrade path? Check!
Competitive enough to take to the events you've described both in budget form and non-budget form? Bingo!
Cost of upgrade path? How many extremities are you willing to part with?
Depending on how you want to upgrade this deck, the cheapest next step would be running Ojutai's Command over Dissolve. I hesitate to suggest that upgrade because you would probably end up removing Ojutai's Command later on as well and its not so cheap that the cost is ignorable.
Next I would focus on replacing Glacial Fortress with Hallowed Fountain and Prairie Stream. That's going to help the consistency of the deck imminsely given how relatively affordable of an upgrade it is.
There are a lot of other fun decks out there. This just fits what you already have and your estimated budget. Its certainly good enough for an FNM.
I will say this though, and this is really for anyone getting into Modern, you might be surprised as to what kind of deck you finally latch on to. It is always hard starting off because of the investment you are making and you don't want it to be the wrong one. I started off with Goblins, then went to Soul Sisters, then B/W Tokens, then Stompy, then U/W Control, then Aristocrats, then my own B/r Control build, then Mono-U Tempo (Ninja/Bear/Delver). It was the last three decks I found that have been the most fun decks and the decks I am best able to pilot. I saw that to say this: Aristocrats was very easy for me to get into because of my time in B/W Tokens because of the staples that cross over. Aristocrats made my time getting into B/r Control easier, again, because of the staples. Its a lot of money to shell out $20-$25 for Path to Exile + $60 for Thoughtseize + $20 for Remand but its probably worth it. Any deck that runs Staples (U/W Control is good for that with Path and Remand being even moderatly budget obtainable). Your journey around Modern will probably take you through many decks and the more cross over cards you have, the easier it is to make that transition. One of the biggest problems people have getting into new decks is the mana base. Fetches are expensive but shocks and the new "Tangolands" or whatever can really help with that burden. Its a shame that one of the first things to get cut when building a budget deck are the lands because they are one of the most universally useful. If you ever find yourself with funds to spend on Magic, pick up lands. I find Pucatrade to be VERY helpful in this. I created a wish list of cards I want, even really expensive ones, and then just trade off old cards I no longer want. Eventually I get enough "points" and someone sends me a really expensive card out of no where and I spent zero money out of pocket to do it.
Interesting. I do love me some UW control and will be looking into this. That said...I've had a terrible RW Goblins idea in my head all day that I'm tempted to try out. I see that goblins aren't quite in the meta these days, though that hasn't stopped me in Standard...
Honestly, not much. I've been entirely a standard player but the prices are just getting to be too much - Jace, new Gideon, and now Ulamog, you know. Opened a few packs of MM2015 and a friend at my LGS gave me a bunch of randoms I need to sort through, but I doubt I have many if any staples at the moment.
I do, however, have a full playset of Flooded Strand from Khans block if that can help. Might have a Bloodstained Mire or two lying around as well. Kinda shelved my RB idea in DTK standard before I knew fetches were a thing.
Going to sort through that section of my collection, will put in anything that seems particularly interesting as an edit here.
Colors I like to play:
I'm drawn the most toward U/W kinds of things. but I'm really open to things. Currently I have a G/B ramp deck I was working on in standard before I realized how much it was going to cost to really finish it...
As for modern, friends have suggested I look into Merfolk or Elves, but if it were that simple I wouldn't be posting here, now would I
Styles:
Really, anything other than pure aggro. I guess I'm kind of a tempo/midrange kind of guy. Have played control and combo as well, but just seem to like striking a balance between your pure "I'll counter your counter of my counter" style of play and being able to finish out matches before turns are called.
Hell, I take that first part back. Burn shenanigans do sound interesting too, though I'd be tempted to splash W or something. I'm a deckbuilder at heart, so give me something to work off of and I'll be happy
Budget:
Oh boy, the key question. I'd say probably can comfortably build between $100 and $200 if I stagger it out over a decent amount of time - I think my favorite standard deck got up to around $150 by the time I was done with it - but I'd also like something that I can play with some substitutions while I'm waiting. Of course, given Modern doesn't rotate I wouldn't mind gradually spending more and more to buy my way into one of those decks on mtgtop8 after a while once I grow comfortable in reading the format, understanding the meta, etc. Let's say a core under $100 if possible, but a clear upgrade path over time. I don't need to go for the extreme $10 budget decks that you can find on tappedout per se, but I can't exactly be buying snapcasters on impulse, y'know?
I'd say around the $15-$20/card mark is where I start having second thoughts about my singles buying.
Level of Competition:
FNMs for now, with an eye toward building up to not going 0-3 drop at a GP at some point in the not too distant future. Possibly noteworthy to mention, the LGS closest to me that does modern seems to do a monthly Win-a-Box and will be hosting an SCG Modern IQ soon, so I think it might be on the more competitive end of the spectrum...
Tried searching Google and no luck so far. Ideally it'd be sourced from mtgtop8 or tappedout, but at this point it's more about the concept of the thing... Anyone know of anything like this?
Thanks!
Only suggestion is that there needs to be a better way to transfer the digital cards - as a new guy it felt kind of sketchy, but apparently that's just how it's done.
...Huh, I could've sworn the 4x Captain's Claws were in there when I posted. I blame the leprechauns.
I get what you mean about three colors, especially post-rotation. And yet, we aren't playing three colors, not really. Our only real
It costs 2 to equip it, and it does nothing if you have only one creature out unless I missed something with the way the card reads. Shouldn't be too often that that scenario occurs if we're speaking in an ideal sense, and maybe that's closer to reality as I practice more, but it's happened enough that the card feels like a real liability to me.
Anyway, GP Houston was...not good
In the meantime, I got 4th in an FNM with it a couple weeks ago! Going for the win this week after having to skip last week's tournament. Have any of y'all thought about splashing :symb:? Kalastria Healer and perhaps Zulaport Cutthroat are amazing for tempo in this deck. Well, still testing the latter, but the Healer is what got me the top 4 (and my first top 8 ever) Bant Company is still a challenge, as is Eldrazi Ramp, but this is quickly becoming my favorite standard deck in a [i]long[/i] time. One of the top players at my LGS (went deep into day 2 at said GP) was on Atarka Red when I played him during the FNM and I managed to comfortably outrace that deck. Reckless Bushwhacker is an All-Star, no other way to put it.
Removal is still a question mark - I feel like the deck needs [i]something[i] to answer a big threat like Dragonlord Atarka, various planeswalkers, and so on, or to stabilize after an opponent goes wide with Collected Company or the like. So what did I do? Bought the deck on MTGO along with a playset of every removal spell in standard :laugh2::laugh2: of course. Figure I could use all the extra practice I can get if I'm setting my sights on PPTQs and such... Plus Friday nights just feel weird when I can't go out to an LGS and play - this could be the solution to that. I'll always be a paper player first and foremost, but getting more (and better) practice can help I would think.
Anyway, here's the latest iteration I've played with:
4 Kalastria Healer
4 Expedition Envoy
4 Firemantle Mage
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Kor Bladewhirl
2 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
2 Munda, Ambush Leader
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Weapons Trainer
4 Devour in Flames
Land - 22
2 Battlefield Forge
4 Ally Encampment
5 Plains
2 Needle Spires
5 Mountain
2 Caves of Koilos
2 Smoldering Marsh
3 Celestial Flare
4 Deflecting Palm
4 Mardu Charm
4 Roast
Now I put it out like that, 30 creatures seems a little heavy - maybe I'll tone it down for Veteran's Sidearm or something. Thoughts? I love the idea of Stoneforge Masterwork, but it feels more like a "win more" card that doesn't help if and when I really need the extra boost.
I really like the synergy Stoneforge Masterwork can give us. Count how many +1/+1 counters you could get attaching it to something like a Kor Bladewhirl. Per Gatherer. it doesn't have to be a 100% exact match to the creature type:
Need I say more??? Especially on one of those that has types in common with Gideon or Captains' Claws tokens...
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh won't work in this deck as well as I would have hoped. Again, per Gatherer:
Damn it. Maybe after sideboarding in Expedite it could work, but this deck just isn't built to throw those cheap burn spells out as easily. Maybe that's the spot the Sky Climber could go in?
Alternatively, -2 Chandra and -2 Chitinous Cloak gives us our 60...
Speaking of burn spells/removal, what about Immolating Glare? It seems like a strictly better Celestial Flare and might be a solution against Thunderbreak Regent/other annoying big guys...
Based on my limited testing results so far, Munda, Ambush Leader seems to be a much better selection for the 4 CMC slot than Pia & Kiran Nalaar simply because Haste and the Ally subtype fit well with the rest of the deck. Plus that draw fixing could potentially be extremely useful in the right circumstances. Just my opinion to be fair, but I'll have to consider Pia & Kiran Nalaar for the sideboard anyway - stacking equipment on thopters is a nice bit of evasion that the deck could use against blockers, in addition to the whole "four free damage to face by sacrificing them" bit.
Interesting that you think 14 artifacts is too much, but I see your point. Initially I just had the six listed in Teebs' idea, but felt it was too few. Made Bone Saw a 4-of both because almost-free +1/+0 and enabling Surge more readily. Added the Chitinous Cloaks on a hunch that it might be decent value by adding menace on top of the +2/+2, but after testing it I agree with your assessment that it's a bit too slow. 6 mana to play and equip it is a bit of a luxury we can't quite afford in this deck. Then added the Hedron Blades because I thought adding to the toughness as well could be valuable, and the deathtouch could help in the Eldrazi matchup. It could have enabled a nice trade against a Thought-Knot Seer or the like, but maybe a little too situational. Thinking of Stoneforge Masterwork instead.
What do you think about burn/removal spells to put in the sideboard? Rending Volley feels a little too situational with the color restriction, but then again, Roast also has a restriction on it and it's not too bad, I suppose, as long as Kolaghan and Thunderbreak Regents manage to stay away
In Game 3 of Round 4 I did in fact animate the Needle Spires! (I also equipped a bonesaw to the animated land... #thedream) Ended up trading it with a Thunderbreak Regent. Not sure who won on that one, but the double strike is nice...
I'm not sure about Chandra either. I felt as if superfriends might be a nice alternate win condition for the deck, plus she seemed easy to flip in theory - just equip a bonesaw and boom, 3 damage in a turn! Nobody at my LGS was sure whether that worked the way I think it could or if it had to be the tap ability - any judges lurking around here want to confirm? In any case, she just didn't have a chance to have the impact I wanted when putting her in. Not ready to give up on her quite yet, but I am considering Chandra, Flamecaller instead, but the CMC is a little high...
Heh, better to miss these triggers now than at Comp REL
Haha, that UW Control deck sounds like one I would build! I don't play MTGO though, so it wasn't me ;P Have been brainstorming a brew with Singing Bell Strike though.
Not a problem! My post from last night reads a lot more spike-y than I had perhaps intended. I love to win, but I love doing it with an interesting deck - definitely a Johnny at heart! (aka there's a reason I'm here instead of in the 4C Rally thread) I literally copy+pasted from my notes in between rounds so it might sound fairly harsh and ~serious~, but in the end I'm planning on playing a so-called "rogue" brew at a GP next week! If it's not about fun, what's the point?
Edit: Mind explaining a bit about Ally Encampment? I'm not quite sure what you mean by the second ability. Using it for "Ally color" mana is a nice tech that has saved me a few times in testing for sure and has caused consternation for opponents when they fail to take it into account, think I only have 1W open and drop a Weapons Trainer for example
Overall: The deck is cheap for this standard, it's fast, and it's rather fun to play. It can compete with the top decks in the meta, but could use some tightening up to really shine.
First, my decklist, based off of Teebs' list up the thread:
4x Ally Encampment
2x Battlefield Forge
7x Mountain
2x Needle Spires
7x Plains
Creature (26)
2x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
4x Reckless Bushwhacker
4x Weapons Trainer
4x Expedition Envoy
4x Firemantle Mage
4x Kor Bladewhirl
2x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Bone Saw
4x Captain's Claws
2x Chitinous Cloak
4x Hedron Blade
Planeswalker (2)
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3x Brute Strength
4x Deflecting Palm
4x Expedite
2x Relic Seeker
2x Zada's Commando
Results: 1 - 3 overall. Pretty disappointing, to be honest, but that's why we playtest
Round-by-Round breakdown:
Round 1: vs Jund Dragons win 2-0
Sideboard
-2 Firemantle Mage -2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
+4 Deflecting Palm
Thoughts:
Deck seems solid, but land balance is a thing to watch out for. Both games I had to mull to 6, and Game 2 I should have gone to 5 - was mountain locked until t4 or 5 which could be bad.
Also forgot the flip Kytheon trigger on G1
Round 2: vs Mono Red loss 1-2
-4 Firemantle Mage
+4 Deflecting Palm
Ran out of steam in game 3. Deflecting Palm is not enough against decks that go wide. Game 2 didn't play BFZ Gideon early enough. Even if it seems unwise, getting all the +0 blockers is important. Still could have gone either way though. Good loss.
Round 3: vs (pure colorless?) Eldrazi Ramp loss 1-2
-2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar -1 Bonesaw
+3 Brute Strength
Was too timid game 1. F**k the thopters and just go for it. Game 2 went well, but again, mountains will be the end of me. Game 3, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger happened despite getting good pressure early. Also there is a card that sacrifices all permanents under X CMC, hard counter to the deck. Should have gone Deflecting Palm with this sideboard.
Round 4: vs Mardu Dragons loss 1-2
-4 Hedron Blade
+4 Deflecting Palm
Game 1 he rather effectively controlled me. The X/1 nature of most of my creatures was my downfall here. Dies to cheap removal a la Wild Slash.
Game 2 kept a 1 land hand because f**k it, why not? I also had 2 Expedition Envoys and a Bonesaw in hand so I felt I could float it. I could. Munda, Ambush Leader I picked up from the dollar rares shelf was the MVP here. Great synergy with the deck, and haste > thopters easily.
Game 3: Good tempo aside from the removal aspect again getting in the way (though not as bad as G1). Got land flooded starting t4, which doomed me.
Any thoughts on how to improve the deck? I've noticed I tend to be timid around the big blocking Eldrazi (in fear of futile attacks, who knows?) so maybe Sparkmage's Gambit? Also if there's one thing that annoyed me about the R decks I played against, it was Thunderbreak Regent. Not sure where to slot in removal, though.
Also, I know it's 64 cards, but I am not sure what to cut down here. In addition, Kor Sky Climber is a card I'd love to see in the deck somewhere, but I can't just keep putting cards in, y'know?
2 Origins and 2 BfZ - felt like playing the Jace lotto
Notable pulls:
Pack 1 Origins: foil Kytheon's Irregulars
Pack 2 Origins: foil Wild Instincts, Pia and Kiran Nalaar, and I doubt I'll ever not find the Origins-art Dragon Fodder to be awesome.
Pack 1 BfZ: foil Stone Haven Medic, Ugin's Insight. Also a few Eldrazi that my GB ramp deck could use.
Pack 2 BfZ: foil Complete Disregard, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Never gone 4/4 on foils before, so I was already pumped to see that. Then, the big guy. Holy crap I've been debating whether he would have a place in my deck for the last two weeks, but not curious enough to grab some off TCG.
Hmmm, I'll definitely look into building UW control for sure, then - I do love that archetype after all, and if it can really be that viable on a budget, why not? Speaking of, you wouldn't happen to have one of those $50 lists handy, would you? I'm still in the phase of even trying to find out how vibrant the local modern scene is. While I'm definitely comfortable getting the list you suggested over time (including snapcasters, eventually), if I could take it for a spin under that it would be awesome.
My name is Charles, and (if you couldn't guess) I'm from Texas. Only been playing Magic seriously since DTK standard, but I've made it out to FNM more often than not. Also been to GP DFW this year. I'm pretty competitive when it comes down to it, but I like competing on my terms - decks that I've had more of a hand in building than just finding a list somewhere. Sometimes it works well, most of the time it doesn't. But hey, having fun is what it's about, isn't it?
I was that guy who was running a UW control shell the week everyone at my LGS seemed to be playing Elves
Anyway, found this place when a friend suggested I come here to check out the Modern primers after I mentioned how bad standard prices were getting. Loads to learn, but it's going to be good.
Interesting. I do love me some UW control and will be looking into this. That said...I've had a terrible RW Goblins idea in my head all day that I'm tempted to try out. I see that goblins aren't quite in the meta these days, though that hasn't stopped me in Standard...
Honestly, not much. I've been entirely a standard player but the prices are just getting to be too much - Jace, new Gideon, and now Ulamog, you know. Opened a few packs of MM2015 and a friend at my LGS gave me a bunch of randoms I need to sort through, but I doubt I have many if any staples at the moment.
I do, however, have a full playset of Flooded Strand from Khans block if that can help. Might have a Bloodstained Mire or two lying around as well. Kinda shelved my RB idea in DTK standard before I knew fetches were a thing.
Going to sort through that section of my collection, will put in anything that seems particularly interesting as an edit here.
Colors I like to play:
I'm drawn the most toward U/W kinds of things. but I'm really open to things. Currently I have a G/B ramp deck I was working on in standard before I realized how much it was going to cost to really finish it...
As for modern, friends have suggested I look into Merfolk or Elves, but if it were that simple I wouldn't be posting here, now would I
Styles:
Really, anything other than pure aggro. I guess I'm kind of a tempo/midrange kind of guy. Have played control and combo as well, but just seem to like striking a balance between your pure "I'll counter your counter of my counter" style of play and being able to finish out matches before turns are called.
Hell, I take that first part back. Burn shenanigans do sound interesting too, though I'd be tempted to splash W or something. I'm a deckbuilder at heart, so give me something to work off of and I'll be happy
Budget:
Oh boy, the key question. I'd say probably can comfortably build between $100 and $200 if I stagger it out over a decent amount of time - I think my favorite standard deck got up to around $150 by the time I was done with it - but I'd also like something that I can play with some substitutions while I'm waiting. Of course, given Modern doesn't rotate I wouldn't mind gradually spending more and more to buy my way into one of those decks on mtgtop8 after a while once I grow comfortable in reading the format, understanding the meta, etc. Let's say a core under $100 if possible, but a clear upgrade path over time. I don't need to go for the extreme $10 budget decks that you can find on tappedout per se, but I can't exactly be buying snapcasters on impulse, y'know?
I'd say around the $15-$20/card mark is where I start having second thoughts about my singles buying.
Level of Competition:
FNMs for now, with an eye toward building up to not going 0-3 drop at a GP at some point in the not too distant future. Possibly noteworthy to mention, the LGS closest to me that does modern seems to do a monthly Win-a-Box and will be hosting an SCG Modern IQ soon, so I think it might be on the more competitive end of the spectrum...