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  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Norin the Wary - Heads I win, Tails you lose.
    Even if Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon fall under "We don't want to play anyway" or "And throw away the key" it's only -2 per game and can hinder the blue players.

    Pyroblast effects sound pretty good with that much blue around. So does a copy of Fork, Reverberate, or Dualcaster Mage, netting you "Copy Cat" (are there a lot of kicked Rite of Replication?). That also brings Mindclaw Shaman to mind.

    Memory Jar, Mindslaver, Stranglehold, Gravity Sphere/Chaosphere, Planar Chaos, and/or Grip of Chaos may be useful. The chaotic effects from Gaka's build seemed to have foiling certain kinds of metas in mind.

    Land hate without destroying them: Burning Earth, Manabarbs, Price of Glory, and - just because there's so much blue - Scald.

    Stuff that's not hard:
    • "A whole lotta nothing fancy", same thing with "Primal Strength" with a turn 2 Genesis Chamber
    • "Basic Training", though a bit of a race with green
    • "Command Decision", even if you have to do it yourself
    • "First Blood", as you said
    • "Necromancer" could happen with artifact creatures and Daretti or Welder
    • "Be Aggressive" == "I attack with Norin... oops!"

    Edit: If it's 90% blue, doesn't that seem a bit skewed? Like there's something incentivizing the lean towards blue?
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Norin the Wary - Heads I win, Tails you lose.
    Out of curiosity, the extra turns rule seems to be under One Time Negatives by says "for every two consecutive extra turns". Do the infinite turn takers get a lot of negative points or just -2?
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Norin the Wary - Heads I win, Tails you lose.
    Quote from Nintura »
    Question, do we have a list of primers and/or deck lists people are using and can we get them all in one post so it's simpler for people to read or view? I have my league starting this Wednesday and while I'll have to modify some of the deck to play cards that gain points, I've been wanting to do Norin for a long time.
    Pretty sure this is the only Norin primer on the forum, but any posted lists are scattered through the thread. Compiling the lot is a tall order for Wednesday. Might be quicker to give the league rules and whatnot for suggestions.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Panharmonicon question
    No, because Ephara triggers at the beginning of each upkeep and checks if a creature entered the battlefield last turn, but is not triggered directly by the creature entering the battlefield. Panharmonicon won't make her trigger multiple times and you'll draw one card.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on What fair strategies do you dislike?
    Quote from DirkGently »
    So...run enchantment removal?

    On that note, personally I hate decks that don't have ways to react to enemy plays. No removal, no counters, just 100% focused on doing their own thing and hoping it kills everyone else before someone else does the same. Trying to police multiple players at once while no one else contributes can be pretty frustrating.
    You think? I'm pretty sure I had plenty, just unlucky that I didn't draw into it.

    That doesn't sound like a "fair" strategy you don't like, though. Just poor deckbuilding, which is certainly vexing.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest - abusing the stack with a plethora of strategies!
    Quote from The Codfather »
    In a token-sacrifice Mazirek deck though, which is better: Gyre Sage, Cryptolith Rite, or Rishkar?
    Gyre Sage and it's cousin Viridian Joiner are quite different than the other two, as they will be able to produce a lot of G on their own with multiple +1/+1 counters, but the other two enable something else. Rishkar can be pretty handy since he himself is a creature for receiving +1/+1 counters and being a threat instead of just a tool. However he only enables G, whereas Cryptolith Rite would enable B as well (or any other color you might want).

    If I'm making tokens and I want to keep most of them around for combat and sacrifice some when needed for effects and pumping the others, I personally prefer Cryptolith Rite over Rishkar as it enables both colors, is slightly harder to remove, and doesn't require my creatures to have +1/+1 counters on them.

    There is also a slight drawback to Sage versus Joiner in that Sage won't produce any mana right away -- it has to have +1/+1 counters on it. Joiner doesn't, but its drawback is that it costs a mana more which competes with the other 3-drops in the list. And it's easy enough to trigger Evolve on Sage at least once.

    So I launched into that because I don't view this as a mutually exclusive decision between Sage, Rite, and Rishkar. I don't view them all as the same role and I'd want to run Sage and the Rite. With things like Reyhan, Last of the Abzan and Death's Presence (if you run that) the Sage could produce tons of mana.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on U/B Rogues Tribal
    Quote from SirFrancois »
    you should actually think about metallic mimic and oona's bodyguard....seems pretty explosive to me
    Oona's Blackguard is already in a lot of folks' lists. I'm not sure Metallic Mimic adds enough for me considering it has no evasion compare to some of the 1-drops that do, but I suppose that will depend on one's build.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Zada - Grinding Up An Arcane Storm


    Not a token spell, but it's definitely a good pump spell option. Not sure it would replace Rouse the Mob for me (and certainly not Temur Battle Rage) but I like it. Not as much as Expertise. That one's busted.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Paradox Engine thoughts
    Quote from Goldenbelmont »
    No one else see the Infinite black mana combo with this??
    Turn 1 : Swamp, Sol Ring, Mana Vault
    Turn 2 : Swamp, Paradox Engine
    Turn 3 : Isochron Scepter exiling Dark Ritual, Tap Sol Ring Activate Isochron Scepter, Black floating... Repeat.
    There are 57 varieties of infinite mana combos with this probably. I'm a little jaded to that now, especially since there are already mana infinite mana combos (including in black). Paradox Engine is a busted combo-enabler for sure that I'll Krosan Grip on sight if I can just like Ashnod's Altar, Rings of Brighthearth, and other enablers.

    Though I might still acquire a copy. For science.

    There probably are not-so-oppressive ways to use it, such as in a deck without mana rocks (or just a couple of non-crazy ones like Marble Diamond) and without crazy activated abilities like Arcanis. Combined with some instant-speed combat tricks it could just be pseudo-Vigilance. But it also doesn't make a lot of sense to build a deck with such restrictions around a single card just in case you happen to get it on the field.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Zada - Grinding Up An Arcane Storm
    This one's a winner in my eyes: Kari Zev's Expertise

    That could pretty much straight replace Traitorous Blood in my build. Heck, might even run them together, but I'm probably going to favor Expertise.

    Edit: Apparently the code that generates the link when I preview my post is different than the code when the page normally renders, so here.

    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on What fair strategies do you dislike?
    Quote from LnGrrrR »
    Quote from lyonhaert »
    Quote from ArkthePieKing »
    Hardcore, bloodthirsty, grinding, terrible control. The kind of control that makes the entire experience static, and you know the game is won even though the control player doesn't actually have their wincon and won't for another 10 turns. That's excruciating to play against in my opinion.
    Definitely agree with this. Worst experience was somebody with Sek'Kuar who had Attrition and Grave Pact in play with Reassembling Skeleton or similar creature. For almost 2 hours (it was late and people were playing slow, too) nobody could keep a creature on the board because of him. I was at 39 life the entire time. I eventually drew exile for the recurring creature and he plopped down another recurring creature so everybody scooped. Terrible game. Excruciating is a good word for it. I tend to concede a lot earlier now if I'm not enjoying the game.


    How did he not win? If he was recurring Reassembling Skeleton then sac'ing it, he should have an army of 3/1s with haste against opponents with barely any board state.
    I don't remember him having that many of the 3/1s, so either he didn't have his commander in play enough or he was sacrificing those to Attrition as well to keep the board totally clear. He could have also been mana screwed somehow. It's also possible that the skeleton was the recurring creature that appeared later and the first one was one of the cockroaches or Nether Traiter. I am a little bit fuzzy on the details since it was a couple years ago.

    Edit: I do remember now he lost the first recurring creature to a well-timed Rakdos Charm from another player.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    Call for Unity seems like it could interact with the deck, but not in a meaningful way that really adds. It seems it would only add counters if we have Skybind/Cloudstone Curio out and Daxos and mana to make spirits. In that case, we're already doing pretty good.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Norin the Wary - Heads I win, Tails you lose.
    Release the Kitties is certainly usable for the creatures. I have hit more than 3 artifacts with Spree before when a player had multiple large mana rocks out and it was the first artifact removal I drew.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on What fair strategies do you dislike?
    Quote from ArkthePieKing »
    Hardcore, bloodthirsty, grinding, terrible control. The kind of control that makes the entire experience static, and you know the game is won even though the control player doesn't actually have their wincon and won't for another 10 turns. That's excruciating to play against in my opinion.
    Definitely agree with this. Worst experience was somebody with Sek'Kuar who had Attrition and Grave Pact in play with Reassembling Skeleton or similar creature. For almost 2 hours (it was late and people were playing slow, too) nobody could keep a creature on the board because of him. I was at 39 life the entire time. I eventually drew exile for the recurring creature and he plopped down another recurring creature so everybody scooped. Terrible game. Excruciating is a good word for it. I tend to concede a lot earlier now if I'm not enjoying the game.

    Quote from Onering »
    Voltron is my pet peeve. Aside from LD, its the easiest archetype to play poorly. Poor threat assessment, targeting a single player rather than spreading it out (when that player isn't an immediate threat or running a deck that eats Voltron, in either case the targeting is warranted), and a general tendency to over commit and get blown out. Playing online, I hate going up against Voltron, because you know if you get open they'll try to take you out even if its a stupid move. Although, I will say it depends on the commander, Kemba tends to be played better in my experience, possibly because she doesn't rely on auras and she makes an army, so you don't get blown out by a single wrath and she lets the pilot play defense more effectively. I think the biggest issue might be that Voltron is something a lot of new players try because it seems fun, and then they suck at it and make bad decisions, while more experienced players know how to play the archetype well and aren't annoying with it. Its the sort of archetype that lets noobs get a kill or two easily each game without winning, which makes it harder to identify what they are doing wrong. The other noob friendly archetypes, like good stuff, don't let you randomly one shot people nearly as often, so they aren't as annoying. To make my point shorter, Voltron is annoying when the pilot can't distinguish between when he or she can kill a player, and when he or she should.
    Poor threat assessment and incorrect sportsmanship for a casual format. I have one group I sometimes play with where most of the time it seems I'm the only one who won't attack somebody who doesn't have a defense up. They have a longer history with 1-on-1 kitchen table decks than they do with multiplayer EDH (and then a couple of them get most of their play time 1-on-1 against each other). It's been challenging trying to get the lightbulb to click that punishing the least threatening player isn't appropriate. Haven't quite found an explanation that clicks.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest - abusing the stack with a plethora of strategies!
    Quote from DementedKirby »
    Definitely worth consideration. I did take out Hardened Scales from the Main Build but this is a creature. Meaning it will benefit from potentially "doubling +1/+1 counters" (just like Hardened Scales did). Notice also that it doesn't specify counters. Meaning that charge counters and any special counters are also affected. However, that also means that any -1/-1 counters will also be counted. Depending on its price, I will definitely try to find a slot for it in the Budget Build.

    Additionally, since I run Meren of Clan Nel Toth, this helps to give me two experience counters when I would normally receive one per each of my creatures that dies. I imagine that many Atraxa, Praetors' Voice players will consider this for their proliferation deck.
    Also (some are obscure):
    Does Meren really need the help? Smile

    The Atraxa superfriends pilots aren't going to care for it.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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