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Dec 9, 2017lyonhaert posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps GaloreSome Italian versions of cards are pretty cheap, but that one doesn't appear to be. I was able to get an Italian Field of Dreams for a mere 25% of the price of the English version (new condition, too), but Italian Chains looks to be 75% of English. The flowchart would be a nice touch, though.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
Dec 9, 2017lyonhaert posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps GaloreI'm a big fan of using artifacts to support the enchantments, and that one is an excellent find. I'd considered saving up to eventually get a Chains, but the more functional deterrent is how often I know I'd have to explain how it works. Even in the same evening, to the same people. No, thank you. Finally got to use Ice Cauldron one evening recently (different deck, of course), and quickly realized that I better be able to use it a lot for its functional value to overcome the overhead cost of educating players.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
Dec 8, 2017lyonhaert posted a message on List your favourite "go big" commander. Nothing else.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
Dec 7, 2017Yeah, it'd be nice to lean more heavily one way or the other for those pieces. If I were to go that rout, I'd probably run Torpor Orb and lean toward activated abilities since a large portion of the list already is activated abilities and/or death triggers. Orb would only affect these cards:Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
- Abhorrent Overlord is still a 6/6 flyer, which is pretty good with all ETB shut off.
- Disciple of Bolas would do nothing.
- Faceless Butcher would do nothing.
- Gonti, Lord of Luxury would have deathtouch, which is okay. His ETB is probably the biggest loss.
- Massacre Wurm loses only half its abilities and still has a decent body.
- Noxious Gearhulk would still be a 5/4 menace, but losing the ETB removal+lifegain hurts a bit.
- Sepulchral Primordial is rather in the same boat as a 5/4 intimidate.
- Slum Reaper would do nothing.
- Solemn Simulacrum could still die for a card, but wouldn't ramp. I'm okay with that since it's a staple for everybody else doing the same.
Dec 6, 2017Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
Ah, okay. Hopefully the way I'm organizing it will work well enough I won't need it, but at least it's there. I was thinking there is (or used to be) a length limit on posts that primers would hit and then need the second post for overflow.
We'll see if I go for actual Primer status, but I really like this deck and wanted to take a shot at putting together that much structured information about it.
I do know some other primer writers like DementedKirby who give alternate decklists, so that's a possibility I'll consider down the road. I'd probably consider adding a section for a more budget-friendly list before a competitive list. I just don't have fun with stax that keeps other players from playing the game at all. I'm okay with speedbumps and bottlenecks. For example, Chainer can play around Storage Matrix fairly well. I'm also okay with Contamination if it comes down just before a loop to protect that or fish for countermagic, but sticking it on turn 3 to jam up the rest of the table for turn after turn isn't my thing.
The competitive list goes fully onboard with resource denial, tax effects, and forced sacrifice effects, creating a truly oppressive and comprehensive Stax package. Definitely not for casual playgroups, I think that this is a good starting point to consider.
You might also decide not to include it at all. No worries!
I really don't like destroying people's lands, especially — except for spot removal of ridiculous lands. I consider Phyrexian Obliterator a testing spot for this reason because it could be used as a sometimes unblockable 5/5, but instant speed reanimation could abuse it to utterly destroy somebody's board state in the face of a Blasphemous Act or as a surprise blocker.
By the way, where did this competitive example come from?
It is pretty good. I just wish it had flying or something. I once pumped it up to 19/19 and attacked to provoke a chump block to get rid of their creature. Then I resolved Disciple of Bolas and sacked it to that. Fun times.
Dec 4, 2017Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
Good to hear, thanks.
I like that one and will probably try it once I get a copy, though the sorcery speed thing hurts. I do keep forgetting about it, so thanks for reminding me. Added to my wishlist!
It could indeed produce a lot of mana and accumulate many counters. It just doesn't quite match up with my play style with Chainer because I most often activat him on other people's turns for combat tricks or pseudo-haste. Most of my opponents are trying to play their decks and deal with the battlefield and tend to lose awareness of the potential of any creature in any graveyard coming to the battlefield at a moment's notice. I think that's Chainer's main advantage. For that reason I've preferred land-ramp, a recurrable land booster or two, and I have loops that are at least self-sustaining on mana and life if they're not producing endless supplies of it (Phyrexian Altar is a ridiculous card).
Once I've honed this approach to Chainer more I might test Black Market (almost certainly in Vedalken Orrery's slot) just to see how it affects how I play the deck, but so far I've had plenty of mana and wanted more life. I feel like Nirkana Revenant would be more likely to keep a slot than Market, though.
Note to self: make a Notable Exclusions section in the Card Choices section.
Dec 1, 2017lyonhaert posted a message on Anyone have budget builds for these 5 commanders..This might get more attention if you ask an admin to move it to the EDH general forum.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
There's also a pinned thread in this forum called List of Multiplayer Primers with links to primer threads located in this forum. There is also a pinned thread in the EDH general forum that serves as a Commander Decklist Database of all the decklist threads in this forum. Budget threads get a special notation next to their entry in that database.
Not sure about the others, but there is a political/control budget list for Phelddagrif by DirkGently in this thread.
Nov 30, 2017Posted in: Commander (EDH)
Lifegain is possibly just a bandaid — it depends entirely on whether that cost of life for cards is helping you win or helping you lose. If you lose games quite often because you lose so much life that it's easy for your opponents to finish you off and you rarely win, then it could be a problem, but may also need a different solution (see below). However if you're still winning an appropriate percentage of games and just happen to be low, then there isn't really a problem. As in, welcome to card draw in B. My favorite deck is monoblack and it taught me my life is as much a resource at my disposal as mana is.
I understand the suggestion, however in my playtesting, I seem to lose lots of life via card drawing : Phyrexian Arena, Underworld Connections, greed, necropotence, Razaketh, the Foulblooded and Erebos, God of the Dead all require life loss payment. Same goes with Phyrexian Reclamation. Anguished Unmaking makes me lose more life... All this lifeloss really starts to add up and without Whip of Erebos or True Conviction (although Authority of the Consuls and Blind Obedience can truly help), there isn't much helping towards regaining that life. And I'm not even mentioning the life lost from my opponents either...
SO, for these reasons, I am thinking to try Death Grasp, not so much to deal with a creature, moreso to fling the damage at an opponent when I have many lands in play. Perhaps I will remove it once playtesting has shown its limits. I wish there was another key enchantment with Lifelink...
Keep track of how much life you spend on your stuff and how much life you lose due to opponents (maybe use pen and paper and next to each life total change for your life put "me"/"them" and do the math later). If the majority of that life lost is from your stuff, then why aren't you winning with all that card draw? If it's mostly from them, what is the source of the life loss and is there already an answer to it in the deck? Is it instead "political" — e.g. you draw so much early on that your opponents see you as a threat and gang up.
If a bit more lifegain truly is the solution, then I prefer more permanent ones that keep giving versus the one-time spells — Basilisk Collar, Noble Purpose, Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Gray Merchant is probably the best of these. I don't run any of these, but I don't run Noble Purpose because I don't run True Conviction for its lifelink but rather the double strike.
Nov 30, 2017I like Darkprophet's suggestion of cutting Death Grasp. We're going to start sounding like broken records about Anguished Unmaking, though.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
Attrition is a YMMV card. It would be quite useful for me in my playgroup, but I somehow haven't even drawn it yet. Even without playing it, you could make a note to yourself to analyze during your games every problematic creature you would want to destroy if you had Attrition in play, and split the count between valid and invalid targets for Attrition. The ratio of invalid:valid targets should help you make a more informed decision. The easiest place to start this analysis is with the other commanders in your playgroup.
Nov 30, 2017I'd rather run Condemn before running Soul Snare. But that's assuming I'm already running Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, and any other instant spot removal that's better than Condemn and still, for some reason, need more spot removal.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
Soul Snare may be a rattlesnake, but it wouldn't be a very good one, I bet, but that's playgroup dependent. Sometimes the creature you need gone is Guttersnipe or Purphoros (if they manage let him become a creature), which are not going to attack you. And a green deck will just blow up the Snare before attacking. Spot removal is one of the things that usually shouldn't be telegraphed, if possible. Wonderfully repeatable stuff like Attrition are one of the exceptions.
Stuff like Sphere of Safety, Ghostly Prison, and No Mercy are all better at sending attacks elsewhere, usually.
Edit: Test it if you want and see if it's useful. Hypothesizing about the usefulness of cards only goes so far since our circumstances are different.
Nov 29, 2017Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
Game Recap —
I had a pretty interesting game last Sunday where I got to practice some new interactions, most of which are from additions originating with the thematic rebuild.
Had Thawing Glaciers in my opening hand with two swamps and drew Deserted Temple. Decided to drop the Glaciers turn one so I could activate it next turn.
Bloodghast and Phyrexian Altar did a super impression of Lotus Cobra with all this land fetching (including from a couple of fetchlands). After I cast Rings of Brighthearth, I spent a turn using all of these to go to town on ramping as many basics as I could until I had only three swamps still untapped for either activating Chainer or casting Withering Boon. It was, unfortunately, a long turn — I need to practice these kinds of interactions so I have a rote understanding of how much mana it takes for each cycle of interactions.
With Kaseto, Orochi Archmage and The Ur-Dragon chipping away at my life, Kagemaro, First to Suffer got a lot of use as a wipe, and X was never less than 7 thanks to Grim Haruspex and Bloodghast. The first time, I cast Kagemaro from hand. The second was a bit more desparate and I reanimated him with Chainer and activated him, killing Chainer, too. After this is the turn I ramped like mad, so I had no problem casting Chainer for 5BB.
We also got pretty lucky that Descendants' Path revealed his Scourge of Valkas after the wipe and it went to the bottom of his library.
Had an interesting round of combat where dragons resolved Thundermaw Hellkite while I had Abhorrent Overlord and six harpies. In response I sacked them for black mana and waited for him to do something else so I could respond. He cast Blade of Selves but didn't have enough mana to attach it, and I responded by reanimating the Overlord and getting my flyers back. He attacked me with Kaalia and dropped Mordant Dragon, I think. Blocked and killed them. Definitely a poor choice to attack me then.
The third time I used Kagemaro, however, I was at 12 life and the dragons player had resolved Kokusho on the previous turn. I sacked my Abhorrent Overlord and harpies for mana (I had plenty, but I wanted to stretch it just in case and I needed another reanimation target aside from Kagemaro). I activated Chainer targeting Kagemaro and let that resolve — 9 life. I activate Chainer targeting the Overlord — 6 life. Rings triggers and I respond to it by activating Kagemaro. To this, finally, I respond by sacrificing Chainer, Bloodghast, and Haruspex to raise my cards in hand to 8 and let Chainer go to the graveyard.
Kagemaro's ability resolves, doing -8/-8. Kokusho dies and triggers, which resolves and knocks me down to 1 life. I pay 2 to the Rings trigger to copy Chainer's ability and target Chainer. That resolves and he's back as a nightmare. His original ability resolves and brings back Overlord. I cast the Claws of Gix in my hand, sacking 3 harpies to bring my life up to 4 so I can activate Chainer once and reanimate Kokusho. From there I looped him with Chainer, Phyrexian Altar, and Overlord for the win.
To be candid, I thought I had completely goofed on the math and couldn't activate Chainer again (and had helped kill myself) when I hit 1 life the first time because I had set my hand down before lining up activations. I had been ignoring the Claws of Gix in my hand up until then. It got me out of a corner that I'd put myself in because I wanted to try the Chainer-flickers-himself trick to get around Kagemaro, but I probably could have just cast him for 7BB easily and had enough to reanimate Kokusho.
I also had Wurmcoil Engine in my graveyard, Head Games and Memory Jar in my hand. So I probably could have stabilized my life and duked it out in combat with the dragons using Abhorrent Overlord and harpies to block and then use Jar and Games to tutor 7 of his best remaining dragons out of his deck and make him dump them. That Scourge of Valkas would have been pick #1!
After reflecting for a while —
Starting to think I need a bit more lifegain and artifact recursion, so I'm considering removing Vedalken Orrery for Trading Post or Myr Retriever and possibly switching Shred Memory to Suffer the Past or Crypt Incursion. The only problem I see with Crypt Incursion is not hitting the artifacts that certain red decks enjoy recycling. I'll wait until after more games to decide that. I might have enough lifegain and just didn't find it.
My thoughts on tutors are definitely changing a bit. I'm okay with the power level of this deck creeping upward since it's my favorite, but what I was actually concerned about in regard to limiting my tutors was always winning the same way or finding combo pieces too easily/quickly. So goal is flexibility and some inconsistency in what win conditions get used.
I've done pretty well without Caged Sun/Nirkana Revenant so far, and that's without putting Crypt Ghast on the battlefield yet, either. So while the ramping-instead-of-boosters experiment is successful so far (they get blown up way less often), the swamp boosters are probably more powerful as ramp, mathematically. I like Bubbling Muck as a ritual, even though Nirkana Revenant should only ever cost BBB+3 life. But I found myself also wondering if Extraplanar Lens's proper place is as a booster that supplements a primarily land ramp approach. Cheapish enough to serve as a ritual if it gets immediately blown up, but way better than a ritual if it sticks. The ramp also seems to extend its range of usefulness further into the mid-game from the late-game. One of these days I'll test it. If Phyrexian Altar keeps sticking, Lens probably will, too.
Updating OP soon.
Nov 28, 2017Posted in: Commander (EDH)
That is true, 1v1 data doesn't count toward social aspects.
Nov 28, 2017Getting beat is just going to happen sometimes. I played this weekend and lost to RU spellslinger. Somebody who can counter your enchantments is just going to be a tough matchup.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
In long-term playgroup politics, 75% is probably too much and could build Archenemy reputation (especially if you don't play other decks that lose more often to lower that percentage). If there are 4 players, winning about a quarter of them +/- is the average. Naturally, winning an above-average number of games builds that reputation. You definitely shouldn't be shooting for 100%.
Also, we generally try to avoid "pulling ahead" until late game so we don't get targeted, but reputation from winning often could still cause you to be targeted. But given your win ratio with this list so far, we could be playing against stronger opponents.
As for early choices with Enlightened Tutor, I try to save it until I know what I want since it will replace a draw. Land Tax is good if you start with some discard stuff or it looks like you're not going to make land drops. Protection for Daxos isn't bad, either, like Lightning Greaves to protect from spot removal. Card draw like Phyrexian Arena is good if you have BB (this is one I have no problem casting before Daxos). If you're up against tokens/reanimator/flicker then Authority of the Consuls could be a good early enchantment. Or you could just search for a cheap mana rock, Expedition Map, or Wayfarer's Bauble. The latter two could be really good choices if I already have other things covered already and have recursion such as Emeria Shepherd or Sun Titan in hand.
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