I've been saying this for a while - WotC should put full art land in every set, but they should be one to a booster box. It would make them valuable and sought after. It wouldn't effect standard at all and at only one per booster box they would hold value and not become ho-hum. They could just put it in the "rare" token slot on the printing sheet and voila, five full art basics in each set.
I understand shifting rarity due to the power of a card to dominate limited. I understand shifting rarity to ensure that collectors don't get super pissed when their $50 card plummets in price. But, this? Whatever.
EDH does involve a lot of deckbuilding. Its easier to just throw a couple of playsets together what could be fun instead of crafting 99 cards into an art.
It is played - but its getting rarer.
Imo its not a bad thing but people should be willing to just play fun decks either way. If i play with casual decks, it can be against EDH decks, or THG decks or whatever there is.
Are you serious? There's no "art" to crafting 60 card decks because of 4 ofs?
Not to raise the ire of commander players, but I see it the other way. Your commander largely determines a large part of the cards you'll put in your deck for most folks. Building 60 card casual decks, especially with cards commander players wouldn't even look at and were never tourney quality, is a challenging exercise.
To start, I don't hate Commander, but I do hate what it seems to have done to casual play.
I used to be able to go to FNM and then play casual magic with my love for my rare-jank inspired decks. Now, at least in my area, no one plays 60 card casual anymore. No more games of Emperor or multiplayer free for alls without 100 card, singleton decks. I ask around and people look at me either like they've never heard of such a thing or they offer to play me with their latest standard or modern brew (which I take them up on - it's fun trying to beat a well tuned deck with cards like Cowardice or Floodgate).
Is it just me and the area that I am in? Or do the days of playing four-ofs for fun seem to have disappeared?
The problem with current Eldrazi art and ORI art (by Kev Walker or others) is that it looks like taken from some '98 video game intro. Just compare Valor in Akros to the Heroes of M&M III intro. The same is true for the short intros for PT or current GPs. It looks horribly outdated. I used to enjoy most of Kev Walker's art, but the things I saw on some of the ORI cards makes me gouge my eyes.
Yep, Valor in Akros is a perfect example of what I'm writing about. It does look like something out of Heroes of M & M, circa 98.
Perhaps the title of my post should have been worded, why does WotC accept bad art, instead of me using the word artists, as I'm sure many of them can do better....?
When I referenced that my gripe with today's bad, IMO, digital art looks like a video game - I didn't mean video games of today, more like something from 10 years ago. Obviously, much of the art we get in MtG is awesome, such as the Feldon of the Third Path mentioned above. Compare that, however, to some of the work I referenced earlier. It's simply no contest when it comes to detail, texture, etc.
I haven't bought a pack in years, its always gonna be better to buy singles than to play the lottery. Also, dear OP, please do keep in mind that magic is growing in popularity, and that the number of cards DOES decrease over time through damage and wear. The other thing to keep in mind is that WoTC has entered a drastic downswing in power level recently. You can at least trade into modern with Origins/Khans. Can you see any cards in BFZ having any real value? I sure cant.
Those are good points. There are folks who don't buy packs. But, it is axiomatic that if no one buys packs the game will stop being printed. Given the "age of sleeves" I'm not sure how many cards are lost due to being destroyed, but that is a consideration. Doing what I suggested above, putting very small amounts of cards back into circulation, does stem the tide somewhat. And no, it does look like BfZ cards are largely a big swing and miss for any long term playability and long term value, foil rare commander worthy cards aside.
I never said I hate all digital art, or that all the "older" art was great, cuz it's not. What I said is that, when lazily done, digital art looks all the same: perfectly straight lines, no texture, no depth. The clothes look like those flat magnetic doll dress up things that little kids play with, etc.
Sooooo..... What you're telling me is that you posted a thread in order to say that you dislike some art and like others? What a revelation. I'm so glad you've come to these forums as you are a great credit to the Magic community.
No, assuming you've read my initial post, the question I posited was why WotC continued to accept substandard work over and over again. What you trolled me on was my reply to another posters post.
every time WotC reprints a card it's value goes down.
Thats completely not true. Tarmogoyf has gone up each time it's been reprinted.
What are you, like 12? Way to ignore the first part of that sentence and quote only what fit your witty retort. Give yourself a big pat on the back for your useful, well-reasoned post.
Just an exercise here...at what point would you stop buying sealed product? When the EV for the pack fell to what point? $3.00? $2.00? $1.00? Zero dollars? There are many, many here who claim to love reprints of expensive cards (anything over $20 seems to be bemoaned). Absent the odd outliers, every time WotC reprints a card it's value goes down. Assuming WotC keeps printing modern masters and commander decks and duel decks with reprints eventually all those cards drop to near worthless value. I surmise that most people will not buy boosters when the cards within the packs are at that point. Sure, standard will always help buoy short term prices, but as long as reprints keep happening this is inevitable. How many more time do the fetch lands, for example, have to be reprinted before they become worthless? Once that happens, putting them in a set is no longer a way for WotC to boost sales. Moreover, many people buy extra booster boxes to hold for spec. Reprinting the cards in a particular older set greatly reduces the value of sealed product. When that keeps happening people stop buying extra boxes for spec and sales continue to decline. The more reprints WotC do, the more they water down the value of what we are paying for in a sealed product.
Instead, let's assume WotC never reprinted a card... Many would now argue that they will never be able to afford that polluted delta that was $100 (or whatever it costs) because they weren't playing then. But, if they are buying packs of the new set, they are also obtaining cards that also will never be reprinted again, and, hence, likely to have value - value that can be traded for that polluted delta they just have to have. So many standard playable, obtainable cards hit $20 or more. One only needs to trade with those for what one wants. For example, Lets say that same person played during RAvnica. He cracked a few doubling seasons or a foil chord of calling: there's his polluted delta right there. It's almost like polluted delta were in packs of Ravnica.
While WotC will never stop reprinting cards (way too many entitled whiners), there should be a happy medium because at some point reprints will cause the death of the game once the value of cards is low enough that people won't buy packs. The answer, as I've been saying to my friends for years, is the expeditions (not that I called them such, mind you). Now, if someone opens an expedition card they can trade it for almost any modern or legacy staple they want. New players have the chance to get whatever their hearts desire out of current packs. WotC could have been doing this all along. They have a very good idea of what will be playable in eternal formats out of each set. They could do alternate art, foil, textless, etc of these cards in every set at ultra rare to ensure that collectors have something and that everyone has a chance of opening a JtMS (trade for for it, duh) in any given pack. No need to endlessly reprint stuff making it all eventually worthless. The more WotC grows the value of its cards, the more people can still get what they want and the more packs they will buy. Mass, large scale reprints of valuable cards are bad for the long term health of this game.
Even reprinting not so valuable stuff is too. Take Felidar Sovereign as an example. It was $10 before. Now, it's essentially bulk and worthless. The EV of old zendikar boosters just went down some as a result. The more WotC reprints, the more this is true. Why would I buy extra boxes if I am sure this will continue to happen over the coming years? And let's all agree - WotC does want people buying extra boxes. And really? Felidar sovereign? You can't just come up with a different new mythic?
It's funny that you feel that way OP because I feel like the art in the older days of magic was done by 6 year olds... or MaRo.
I never said I hate all digital art, or that all the "older" art was great, cuz it's not. What I said is that, when lazily done, digital art looks all the same: perfectly straight lines, no texture, no depth. The clothes look like those flat magnetic doll dress up things that little kids play with, etc.
You don't seem to know much about digital art, but digital art looks exactly like an oil painting would look. The only difference is it is cheaper, easier fix mistakes and faster to do as you don't have to wait for paint to dry.
Igor Kieryluk is a brilliant artist. I don't see what you mean at all when you say "all straight lines" and "no shadowing or texture"
This piece of his for example has no straight lines, and plenty of shadows and texture.
This looks like "total crap" and "third rate"? Can you do any better?
This isn't third rate art at all. Wizards of the Coast does not hire scrubs. Kieryluk is one of the top fantasy artists in the world. Art is subjective but my opinions entirely disagree with what you've posted.
When printed at small size like magic cards are, Kieryluk's cards look find to me. I wish there was more stylized stuff like Rebecca Guay but I respect WoTC's art direction decision to try to make all the cards more unified with a realistic style.
Yeah, yeah. I get that digital art is here to stay, and I get that WotC wants realistic art. But the art doesn't have to be bad, there are plenty of artists who can do good work. Look at Grasp of the Hieromancer closely. There is no texture, no depth. The hair and clothes looks like they were dragged and dropped on to it. Everything is sharp and angular, like that from a video game 10 years ago. I'm not picking on Igor. No, there are plenty of other similar, "looks like crappy video game screen shot art." Arrogant Bloodlord by Mike Biereck and Stromkirk Noble by James Ryman suffer from the same. No texture, no depth. The buildings in Stromkirk Noble look like they were rendered on a computer, not hand drawn on a computer. Sorin's Vengeance is another good example of angular, depthless digital junk. Look at the sword on those perfectly angular, straight stairs...terrible IMO.
Compare that to (I'm just grabbing random stuff) Archers Parapet. No perfectly straight walls, we can see texture of the walls, one can discern depth from the arrows and cracks/diamond shapes in the wall, no crummy fog to obscure the lack of actual details. Or Bloodsoaked Champion, for another example. The clothes on the Champion actually look like they were meant to be there instead of selected from clip art. I'm sure that those two pieces are digitally made and I like them a lot. Compare that to Igor's Gather the Pack...
And no, all digital art does not look like all oil paintings would look. Some does. Others look like Infinite Reflection.
Ok, so I've been playing Magic since Unlimited and have seen the progression from hand-drawn artwork through to today's digital stuff. You can guess that I think the hand-drawn stuff is largely better, but I'll accept most of the digital stuff today. And, yeah, I miss the unique likes of the Foglios or Drew Tucker (and mostly Pete Venters...Pete, where are you?). I've been reading these thread for years, never with a need to post as I'm not one to generally bemoan the new set as most do or complain. But, the art of Igor Kieryluk has got me so miffed I had to post. It's so awful.
Have you looked closely at some of his stuff? It mostly looks like it was rendered by a video game. All straight lines, no shadowing or texture. Cheap computer generated looking fog obscuring the need for real detail. No depth. It's all so flat and lifeless and without and feeling of "real-ness." Infinite Reflection? Gather the Pack? Grasp of the Hieromancer? Eyeblight Massacre? Murder Investigation? Ravenous Demon? Selhoff Occultist? Whatever, it's all total crap that looks like it was generated during a game of Unreal Tournament.
I know I have to live with digital art, but c'mon Wizards some of this stuff is freaking third rate.
Are you serious? There's no "art" to crafting 60 card decks because of 4 ofs?
Not to raise the ire of commander players, but I see it the other way. Your commander largely determines a large part of the cards you'll put in your deck for most folks. Building 60 card casual decks, especially with cards commander players wouldn't even look at and were never tourney quality, is a challenging exercise.
I used to be able to go to FNM and then play casual magic with my love for my rare-jank inspired decks. Now, at least in my area, no one plays 60 card casual anymore. No more games of Emperor or multiplayer free for alls without 100 card, singleton decks. I ask around and people look at me either like they've never heard of such a thing or they offer to play me with their latest standard or modern brew (which I take them up on - it's fun trying to beat a well tuned deck with cards like Cowardice or Floodgate).
Is it just me and the area that I am in? Or do the days of playing four-ofs for fun seem to have disappeared?
Yep, Valor in Akros is a perfect example of what I'm writing about. It does look like something out of Heroes of M & M, circa 98.
Perhaps the title of my post should have been worded, why does WotC accept bad art, instead of me using the word artists, as I'm sure many of them can do better....?
Those are good points. There are folks who don't buy packs. But, it is axiomatic that if no one buys packs the game will stop being printed. Given the "age of sleeves" I'm not sure how many cards are lost due to being destroyed, but that is a consideration. Doing what I suggested above, putting very small amounts of cards back into circulation, does stem the tide somewhat. And no, it does look like BfZ cards are largely a big swing and miss for any long term playability and long term value, foil rare commander worthy cards aside.
No, assuming you've read my initial post, the question I posited was why WotC continued to accept substandard work over and over again. What you trolled me on was my reply to another posters post.
What are you, like 12? Way to ignore the first part of that sentence and quote only what fit your witty retort. Give yourself a big pat on the back for your useful, well-reasoned post.
Instead, let's assume WotC never reprinted a card... Many would now argue that they will never be able to afford that polluted delta that was $100 (or whatever it costs) because they weren't playing then. But, if they are buying packs of the new set, they are also obtaining cards that also will never be reprinted again, and, hence, likely to have value - value that can be traded for that polluted delta they just have to have. So many standard playable, obtainable cards hit $20 or more. One only needs to trade with those for what one wants. For example, Lets say that same person played during RAvnica. He cracked a few doubling seasons or a foil chord of calling: there's his polluted delta right there. It's almost like polluted delta were in packs of Ravnica.
While WotC will never stop reprinting cards (way too many entitled whiners), there should be a happy medium because at some point reprints will cause the death of the game once the value of cards is low enough that people won't buy packs. The answer, as I've been saying to my friends for years, is the expeditions (not that I called them such, mind you). Now, if someone opens an expedition card they can trade it for almost any modern or legacy staple they want. New players have the chance to get whatever their hearts desire out of current packs. WotC could have been doing this all along. They have a very good idea of what will be playable in eternal formats out of each set. They could do alternate art, foil, textless, etc of these cards in every set at ultra rare to ensure that collectors have something and that everyone has a chance of opening a JtMS (trade for for it, duh) in any given pack. No need to endlessly reprint stuff making it all eventually worthless. The more WotC grows the value of its cards, the more people can still get what they want and the more packs they will buy. Mass, large scale reprints of valuable cards are bad for the long term health of this game.
Even reprinting not so valuable stuff is too. Take Felidar Sovereign as an example. It was $10 before. Now, it's essentially bulk and worthless. The EV of old zendikar boosters just went down some as a result. The more WotC reprints, the more this is true. Why would I buy extra boxes if I am sure this will continue to happen over the coming years? And let's all agree - WotC does want people buying extra boxes. And really? Felidar sovereign? You can't just come up with a different new mythic?
I never said I hate all digital art, or that all the "older" art was great, cuz it's not. What I said is that, when lazily done, digital art looks all the same: perfectly straight lines, no texture, no depth. The clothes look like those flat magnetic doll dress up things that little kids play with, etc.
Yeah, yeah. I get that digital art is here to stay, and I get that WotC wants realistic art. But the art doesn't have to be bad, there are plenty of artists who can do good work. Look at Grasp of the Hieromancer closely. There is no texture, no depth. The hair and clothes looks like they were dragged and dropped on to it. Everything is sharp and angular, like that from a video game 10 years ago. I'm not picking on Igor. No, there are plenty of other similar, "looks like crappy video game screen shot art." Arrogant Bloodlord by Mike Biereck and Stromkirk Noble by James Ryman suffer from the same. No texture, no depth. The buildings in Stromkirk Noble look like they were rendered on a computer, not hand drawn on a computer. Sorin's Vengeance is another good example of angular, depthless digital junk. Look at the sword on those perfectly angular, straight stairs...terrible IMO.
Compare that to (I'm just grabbing random stuff) Archers Parapet. No perfectly straight walls, we can see texture of the walls, one can discern depth from the arrows and cracks/diamond shapes in the wall, no crummy fog to obscure the lack of actual details. Or Bloodsoaked Champion, for another example. The clothes on the Champion actually look like they were meant to be there instead of selected from clip art. I'm sure that those two pieces are digitally made and I like them a lot. Compare that to Igor's Gather the Pack...
And no, all digital art does not look like all oil paintings would look. Some does. Others look like Infinite Reflection.
Have you looked closely at some of his stuff? It mostly looks like it was rendered by a video game. All straight lines, no shadowing or texture. Cheap computer generated looking fog obscuring the need for real detail. No depth. It's all so flat and lifeless and without and feeling of "real-ness." Infinite Reflection? Gather the Pack? Grasp of the Hieromancer? Eyeblight Massacre? Murder Investigation? Ravenous Demon? Selhoff Occultist? Whatever, it's all total crap that looks like it was generated during a game of Unreal Tournament.
I know I have to live with digital art, but c'mon Wizards some of this stuff is freaking third rate.