Limited with this set seems like a blast, actually. I'm a big fan of cards like Siren's Ruse; it gives you a great payoff to committing to a tribe, but is totally serviceable outside of it. There are a lot of cards like these sprinkled throughout the set, and I think this is the way to do tribal in limited.
Frequently in the past we've seen tribal support which goes for trash to great depending on how committed you are to the tribe. I much prefer this way of doing things, and I think it will lead to good limited gameplay.
I think a neat interaction with this card is using it on any one of the raid creatures right after attacking with it, and possibly saving it if they block the creature, and getting the trigger again. And of course naturally the raid creatures are pirates so you'll get the draw too.
Ignores obvious reference to fatal push because it defeats his argument, then continues with the condescending remarks and yet another nickname given to me because.......well I guess attempting to bully people is the only way to win an imaginary argument against facts? Rainbows aren't needed. I specifically said earlier in the thread that I like this set because it's NOT amazing, but rather balanced and lends itself to creative deckbuilding; not just 2 mana instant speed removal that takes out the indestructible mythics. I like good removal, but we done need several busted removal spells just in one color.
Red: the color that has been relegated to a splash only color for the last few years finally has a tier 1 deck and the problem is that its too powerful? maybe it is, after years of playing WotC's failed Big Red experiment, its about time red was actually good again. I don't think I ever remember red being the strongest color. But hey, he finally made an actual point about green getting 5-6 playable cards each set and being pushed. But then the argument falls apart again when mentioning black, which still has a removal spell so "push"ed that its one of the best modern removal spells, at it's disposal, and blue is currently stronger cards wise in standard than it has been in around a decade. So what I'm really hearing is, "why can't black always be busted, because I like black, and it's not busted in this set, so the whole set is garbage, and I'm not condescending, you are"
There's an article at channel fireball that sums up my feelings of this set and I'll provide a link to it. This set reinforces existing archtypes in standard, it gives modern blue decks a new card draw spell, but overall, it's a commander set in disguise. Wizard's seems to be eating design space for the casual crowd and for weak tribal cards. Not dinosaurs, but the the other tribes that aren't on par with dinosaurs. Also, this set caters to certain colors while other colors get archaic draw, removal and discard.
Funny how you talk about a commander set, then you say that dinosaur is the strongest tribe. Dinosaurs won't make any impact in commander, they will be like a mayael the anima tribal wurm deck.
Hey don't fall for the trap of talking to this person. They just go on these threads and try to troll people. The truth is all of that person opinions are ripped straight from articles like the one they posted, rather than coming from actual analysis and thought. This set is meant to be a standard set that brings power creep back down to manageable levels by forcing players to make creative synergistic decks and not just jam another good stuff deck down everyone's throats. This set actually looks particularly weak for edh and I don't even routinely play it. but then again I actually read the cards and think about them rather than just dismiss them all as jank because they don't easily slide directly into my net deck
I really like sets like this. Not because I think it's amazing, but rather because I think it isn't. I appreciate that WotC took their time to make sure their are no Gideon, ally of zendikar or glorybringer type of cards that guarantee you win in limited and immediately spike in price. sets like this work to the advantage of people that like to brew and think about the interactions to make a deck good. Of course there are people that hate this set already, because is no clear cut best chase rare or mythic that warps limited at best or the meta overall at worst. I hope they keep making sets like this, because they help keep the meta fresh and not just the same old top 2-3 decks. not that standard at the moment is bad, I just think this set is a positive direction for the game= flavorful cards, strong but not busted rares, mythics that feel mythic (like it should be a 1 of in a deck) and awesome artwork. good job wizards.
I just hope Angrath is RB. It would be nice to finally have a standard playable RB walker since it has been a long time since the last. Plus this would be the first real RB walker, and not one that started out red affiliated and then adds black for a second PW card. Angrath being a Minotaur has me optimistic that this will be the case, and would be long overdue for Rakdos style players
There is a lot of life loss, drain type of cards in this set, so I can see where this card would be useful. I wouldn't, however, optimally play this card with an empty hand. I think this card is really at it's best if used when you still have 2-3+ other cards in hand, because then your opponent can only choose to exile the best options for what is already revealed (your board state). At that point they may go ahead and give you a card or two that they see as useless at the time but may very well synergize with a card or 2 still in your hand. I understand that hyper competitive players will always hate punisher cards, so you will never see them in tier 1 deck lists, but not because they couldn't or wouldn't be useful; but because above all else the hyper competitive want 'predictable' and 'consistent' cards only in their decks. That's fine, and a good strategy obviously, but choosing vanilla pushed cards every time does not mean the more variable consistency cards are 'bad'. This card can be great in the right builds as several people have said. I happen to love punisher cards specifically because they vary in consistency, making the games less routine and scripted. They also tend to surprise opponents who automatically dismiss them during spoiler season, and they have trouble dealing with them in actual gameplay. I like this card, I think it will be fun.
Are you playing solitaire or magic? In magic, your life total fluctuates throughout the game.
That's true, but how many people are going to cast this creature when they are at 6 life, bringing them down to 4, while playing against an Rx deck in a meta that has a bunch of haste bombs like glorybringer? exactly, no one. your analysis of this new card is that its not a good card if and only if you play it at the worst possible time, against the worst possible matchup. If those are the kind of plays you make, then you might want to consider switching to solitaire as you mentioned. For the rest of us, we aren't going to go out of our way to make easily one the best creatures printed in years immediately lose us the game.
Then what's the point of playing this creature? You provided the perfect situation, not me. Not all board states are ideal and you have to consider the worst possible outcome when playing a card like this against a very common and played card(s). Also, this isn't the best creature printed in the last few years, hell, it's not the best black creature printed this set. If it were, then black is screwed.
However, this card can and does compliment The Scarab God. If black had better removal and disruption, I could see it fit into a u/b re-animator shell.
First off, I didn't say it's THE best card printed in years, but rather one of them. Creatures that immediately impact life totals with and etb while leaving a sizable body tend to dominate entire meta's. thragtusk and siege rhino are two great examples of cards that did just that and where completely misjudged. Granted this card makes YOU lose life two, so it's worse in that regard, but it forces an opponent to use removal on it or sac 2 creatures to deal with it. This is clearly a build around type of card, and probably wouldn't be used in a deck that doesn't use it's life total a resource as Ashiok said.
What you mean about perfect situation baffles me. If you only judge a card by how good it is in it's worst situations, then you must be routinely playing the most vanilla and easy to gameplan against decks. If I'm expecting glorybringer every time on turn 5 from you, you are probably gonna be one of my easiest wins of the night. But someone dropping this new creature on me is gonna force me to actually have to think and not just slam the most expensive cards in the meta every turn.
This creature doesn't come close to the power level of thragtusk or siege rhino and will not take over a meta. That's delusional thinking. Saying it's one of the best cards printed in years is absurd.
The life loss done to you is very relevant, especially against aggro decks and decks that will, in effect, 3:1 you with a card like glorybringer. The effect is negligible and dangerous against the wrong decks. Also, there are zero cards to support the linear life loss like exquisite blood spoiled so far.
are you serious right now? 'especially against aggro decks?' you mean the only decks in any meta that don't care about their life total and are extremely weak to anykind of life loss? how about 'in effect 3:1 you with a card like glorybringer': first off, if you drop this card, you both loss life which is 1:1 and you have a big threat, then if they drop glorybringer they 2:1 you in that they hit you to the face and kill you brand new orc, BUT have to exert him to do so which IN EFFECT leaves them wide open for you to attack next turn. The problem with your logic is A: you don't understand actual ratios, B: you clearly assume that your opponent will only make the most stupid plays available, and C: have no actual understanding of how to build a deck that support the card you are evaluating.
You did mention a reanimator type of deck with the scarab god, which is a decent idea, but at that point is too much of a hassle to make him into a zombie or get him into the yard to reanimate to make worth it. Then you mentioned exquisite blood, which would be awesome with this card, but failed to see the plethora of cards in this set alone that drain your opponent and some that gain you life with that drain. And again, I can't stress this enough, because you seem to keep missing this, THIS CREATURE DRAINS YOUR OPPONENT ALSO. Which last I checked, if played BEFORE your attack, you can take 1/3 of their life and then swing for lethal. It's clear you aren't even truly beginning to think about how to make this card useful, you are just trying to find reasons to justify your original post that made it painfully obvious that you simply dismissed the card outright because it wasn't completely broken and obvious how to use it.
It hits you and your opponent, then they play a glorybringer, or dinosaur with haste and you're dead. Great card, though.
right, because 1/3 of 20 equals 16 to make your scenario actually work. Great math, though.
Are you playing solitaire or magic? In magic, your life total fluctuates throughout the game.
That's true, but how many people are going to cast this creature when they are at 6 life, bringing them down to 4, while playing against an Rx deck in a meta that has a bunch of haste bombs like glorybringer? exactly, no one. your analysis of this new card is that its not a good card if and only if you play it at the worst possible time, against the worst possible matchup. If those are the kind of plays you make, then you might want to consider switching to solitaire as you mentioned. For the rest of us, we aren't going to go out of our way to make easily one the best creatures printed in years immediately lose us the game.
Then what's the point of playing this creature? You provided the perfect situation, not me. Not all board states are ideal and you have to consider the worst possible outcome when playing a card like this against a very common and played card(s). Also, this isn't the best creature printed in the last few years, hell, it's not the best black creature printed this set. If it were, then black is screwed.
However, this card can and does compliment The Scarab God. If black had better removal and disruption, I could see it fit into a u/b re-animator shell.
First off, I didn't say it's THE best card printed in years, but rather one of them. Creatures that immediately impact life totals with and etb while leaving a sizable body tend to dominate entire meta's. thragtusk and siege rhino are two great examples of cards that did just that and where completely misjudged. Granted this card makes YOU lose life two, so it's worse in that regard, but it forces an opponent to use removal on it or sac 2 creatures to deal with it. This is clearly a build around type of card, and probably wouldn't be used in a deck that doesn't use it's life total a resource as Ashiok said.
What you mean about perfect situation baffles me. If you only judge a card by how good it is in it's worst situations, then you must be routinely playing the most vanilla and easy to gameplan against decks. If I'm expecting glorybringer every time on turn 5 from you, you are probably gonna be one of my easiest wins of the night. But someone dropping this new creature on me is gonna force me to actually have to think and not just slam the most expensive cards in the meta every turn.
raiders' wake could have some potential in an improvise style deck with herald of anguish. I'm not saying its good, but swinging for 5 each turn into them discarding 2 cards and losing 4 life could end games quickly
You can drop him t3 in mono red after a t2 Wily Goblin... but expecting a 2 activation turn anytime early is awfully ambitious.
yes I agree it's ambitious, and very unlikely to happen, it's just the fact that it is possible. That alone forces your opponent to have to react to or deal with the creature rather than advancing their own board state. Even one activation, which is all but guaranteed if it survives to your next turn, puts enough pressure on them to do the same. however the card is pretty useless against control. Rather than hate on cards when they are first spoiled, which I am in no way claiming you are doing, I try to find the optimal ways of using them or just making them useful.
It hits you and your opponent, then they play a glorybringer, or dinosaur with haste and you're dead. Great card, though.
right, because 1/3 of 20 equals 16 to make your scenario actually work. Great math, though.
Are you playing solitaire or magic? In magic, your life total fluctuates throughout the game.
That's true, but how many people are going to cast this creature when they are at 6 life, bringing them down to 4, while playing against an Rx deck in a meta that has a bunch of haste bombs like glorybringer? exactly, no one. your analysis of this new card is that its not a good card if and only if you play it at the worst possible time, against the worst possible matchup. If those are the kind of plays you make, then you might want to consider switching to solitaire as you mentioned. For the rest of us, we aren't going to go out of our way to make easily one the best creatures printed in years immediately lose us the game.
Wow, you slap flying on that dinosaur and it resembles several mythics of red's past, so I'm shocked that was printed at uncommon. yes a rare people would call it dollar bin jank, but at uncommon it's crazy good. captivating crew is beyond just a limited bomb. with all the treasure token's, and a lot of them in red, it's not impossible to drop this turn 4 and steal their best 2 creatures turn 5 and swing for the win. yes your ramp would need to be near perfect up to that point, but with the lotus vale land it is a possibility
Wow. This wrath alone makes me want to buy this set. I don't even care about the creature part, which is still huge. It's the "remove indestructible" and planeswalker part that has me drooling. Finally a way to not get hosed by the Gideon's of the world. And no, shock doesn't do enough for the "red gets tons of awesome burn" people who pretend red in standard hasn't been a splash only color for too long a time. Atarka red was it, and it needed to splash green to even have a chance. This finally opens the door for the Big Red they have been desperately trying to push and failing so miserably at. Great card
I think a neat interaction with this card is using it on any one of the raid creatures right after attacking with it, and possibly saving it if they block the creature, and getting the trigger again. And of course naturally the raid creatures are pirates so you'll get the draw too.
Hey don't fall for the trap of talking to this person. They just go on these threads and try to troll people. The truth is all of that person opinions are ripped straight from articles like the one they posted, rather than coming from actual analysis and thought. This set is meant to be a standard set that brings power creep back down to manageable levels by forcing players to make creative synergistic decks and not just jam another good stuff deck down everyone's throats. This set actually looks particularly weak for edh and I don't even routinely play it. but then again I actually read the cards and think about them rather than just dismiss them all as jank because they don't easily slide directly into my net deck
are you serious right now? 'especially against aggro decks?' you mean the only decks in any meta that don't care about their life total and are extremely weak to anykind of life loss? how about 'in effect 3:1 you with a card like glorybringer': first off, if you drop this card, you both loss life which is 1:1 and you have a big threat, then if they drop glorybringer they 2:1 you in that they hit you to the face and kill you brand new orc, BUT have to exert him to do so which IN EFFECT leaves them wide open for you to attack next turn. The problem with your logic is A: you don't understand actual ratios, B: you clearly assume that your opponent will only make the most stupid plays available, and C: have no actual understanding of how to build a deck that support the card you are evaluating.
You did mention a reanimator type of deck with the scarab god, which is a decent idea, but at that point is too much of a hassle to make him into a zombie or get him into the yard to reanimate to make worth it. Then you mentioned exquisite blood, which would be awesome with this card, but failed to see the plethora of cards in this set alone that drain your opponent and some that gain you life with that drain. And again, I can't stress this enough, because you seem to keep missing this, THIS CREATURE DRAINS YOUR OPPONENT ALSO. Which last I checked, if played BEFORE your attack, you can take 1/3 of their life and then swing for lethal. It's clear you aren't even truly beginning to think about how to make this card useful, you are just trying to find reasons to justify your original post that made it painfully obvious that you simply dismissed the card outright because it wasn't completely broken and obvious how to use it.
First off, I didn't say it's THE best card printed in years, but rather one of them. Creatures that immediately impact life totals with and etb while leaving a sizable body tend to dominate entire meta's. thragtusk and siege rhino are two great examples of cards that did just that and where completely misjudged. Granted this card makes YOU lose life two, so it's worse in that regard, but it forces an opponent to use removal on it or sac 2 creatures to deal with it. This is clearly a build around type of card, and probably wouldn't be used in a deck that doesn't use it's life total a resource as Ashiok said.
What you mean about perfect situation baffles me. If you only judge a card by how good it is in it's worst situations, then you must be routinely playing the most vanilla and easy to gameplan against decks. If I'm expecting glorybringer every time on turn 5 from you, you are probably gonna be one of my easiest wins of the night. But someone dropping this new creature on me is gonna force me to actually have to think and not just slam the most expensive cards in the meta every turn.
yes I agree it's ambitious, and very unlikely to happen, it's just the fact that it is possible. That alone forces your opponent to have to react to or deal with the creature rather than advancing their own board state. Even one activation, which is all but guaranteed if it survives to your next turn, puts enough pressure on them to do the same. however the card is pretty useless against control. Rather than hate on cards when they are first spoiled, which I am in no way claiming you are doing, I try to find the optimal ways of using them or just making them useful.
That's true, but how many people are going to cast this creature when they are at 6 life, bringing them down to 4, while playing against an Rx deck in a meta that has a bunch of haste bombs like glorybringer? exactly, no one. your analysis of this new card is that its not a good card if and only if you play it at the worst possible time, against the worst possible matchup. If those are the kind of plays you make, then you might want to consider switching to solitaire as you mentioned. For the rest of us, we aren't going to go out of our way to make easily one the best creatures printed in years immediately lose us the game.
right, because 1/3 of 20 equals 16 to make your scenario actually work. Great math, though.