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Magic Market Index for August 18, 2017
 
Treasure Cruisin' with Azorius Titan
 
Commander 2017 Digest
  • 1

    posted a message on How would you break the reserved list?
    The primary limiting factor that is keeping wizards from undoing the reserved list isn't the fear of legal allegations (They'd win the legal fight almost 100% guaranteed), but the fact they want to create a disposable, rotating card game first and foremost. That's what has been hurting them when it comes to modern and commander because the company itself doesn't know how to handle both a disposable game and the non-disposable one. Konami did the complete opposite of what Wizards did and went all out on one big format, reprinting just about all the high played cards repeatedly.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • 0

    posted a message on KMC perfect fit bending cards
    The problems I've had with KMC are with the outers and not the perfect fits. Right now the outer sleeves are very flimsy and easy to break even with riffle shuffling. I heard they dropped in quality, but this is a pretty big dip from the old version.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • 1

    posted a message on How would you break the reserved list?
    To be frank, wotc needs to adopt a strategy for printing cards that actually works with the audience they fostered when the game popularity exploded. The entire problem with card printings, prices, etc comes from the fact many people who have returned to the game find they dont have the time to put into it like they used to, so they have to take short cuts such as find deck lists online. It's a no brainer that these people will gravitate toward what sources qualify as legitimate, such as pro tour deck lists, and this puts a huge strain on a select few cards.

    If wizards breaks the reserved list, these same people will repeat this with any deck list that pops up in the now revived legacy. That's why I constantly feel like they need to drop prices on masters sets to get more copies out there and get more high value cards into pre-constructed products. They are doing the complete opposite of this over the last few years.

    To break the reserved list, they need to develop a means to sell the high demand singles. I know there are people scared of the whole carrion ants scenario, but times have changed since then and the audience is much bigger and just doesn't have the same mind set.

    Basically, we are in a world where the price of a card is not the trade value of the card in the traditional sense of usability in deck building, as engineered explosives for example is still a narrow side board card in comparison to a fetchland.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • 0

    posted a message on Fortunate Few Boneyard Scourge
    Fortunate Few feels like it loses out to Tragic Arrogance and Cataclysmic Gearhulk as far as being a political card. I just see everyone leaving each other with the absolutely worst card on the field possible on the resolution of the entire affair.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on Iconic Masters November 2017
    Quote from K-Man »
    Maybe smoothing out the seemingly hit or miss boxes, lowering to 7.99, adding 2-4 more higher end rares and 2-4 more uncommons would help some.
    Seems somewhat reasonable


    I think that would go a long way to help things with Iconic Masters. The big issue is that if it is like Eternal Masters and they target a lot of EDH cards and legacy cards, the prices on those are not necessarily from demand as much as the supply of the cards running low. EDH players tend to buy a lot of one off singles so you end up with the highest demand cards being where the roads intersect. Cards like Thousand Year Elixir and Sol Ring are pretty good examples of high demand EDH staples and their prices are holding pretty steady even with reprints. However, cards like Mikaeus, the Unhallowed are only bought be a few players and are priced that high due to a slow stripping of supply. If they mix in cards like Chalice of the Void they could shore things up a bit, but I'm skeptical.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on Iconic Masters November 2017
    Quote from Kangodo »
    Quote from RedGauntlet »

    Value decimated? Din't you get them to play the game so why they getting cheap now would do to you? If they were cheaper wouldn't be betetr to get?

    Because your 'idea' would quickly finish the game.
    It's also why we have a reserve list.

    If Wizards wants their game to die they are free to ignore the secondary market.


    Oh, they aren't ignoring it. In fact, it looks like they are trying to do some manipulation via how they are printing the sets. I am not a fan of the potential bar that WoTC is setting on the costs long term.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on Iconic Masters November 2017
    Considering Canadian guys response it looks like their strategy is working on up shifting pricing into categories. I'm still waiting to see what they do for the remaining cards and the edh specs, though. Iconic masters will be a good test I think.

    His concern is loss of trading power if the cards drop in price I think. That is a non-issue if the prices drop similarly on what cards are currently being played.

    As for comments about how blood moon is cheaper now than it was prior, that is actually a red herring.

    Here is the question: what was the price of a snapcaster mage in standard when Innistrad was released? Smile If you know what I'm thinking, keep an eye on what they reprint in iconic masters.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 1

    posted a message on Iconic Masters November 2017
    I thought the same way about the up shift in rarity on pre mythic sets until I saw snapcaster mage and cavern up shifted. This isn't being done for consistency, it is being done to create chase cards.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on Iconic Masters November 2017
    @dontrike, the issue with the reprints is that they are insisting on upshifting rarity on many of the older uncommons. They gave a reason before for this, but the reality is that greed is blinding them and they are trying to turn anything popular into a chase card. They need to downshift the rarity on a lot of cards or they will never be able to reprint them all effectively. They have almost no control over the marketing of singles and the upshift strategy will eventually make the formats too expensive to play.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 1

    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from LEH »
    Quote from Seymour_TUBES »
    Yeah, Porphyry Nodes definitely spiked. Went from ~$2 to ~$10 on TCG a couple days ago. Looks like nobody's buying it at that price, though.


    Do you know why it spiked? Is it new tech in UW Control or something? Yeah, I'm glad I got mine when they were jank 20p rares or something.


    It's speculation due to legacy. There was a lot of talk over drop of honey and how it's not hard to splash for the node over the reserved list card. Since the market cost to own that monopoly estate was low people jumped on it.
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Booster box questions
    To amend my statement, I'd say if you want to build a deck, check out Strictly Better MTG on youtube. He does a lot of standard deck techs, including budget ones and rotation proof ones that are very good at FNM. I've played two of his deck techs back when SOI was still fresh and it was a blast (Red Black Madness Vampires). That one is still legal, but will be rotating relatively soon. Well, that or Jewel Osco having the Halloween candy already out is throwing me for a loop.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • 0

    posted a message on Iconic Masters November 2017
    Iconic Masters sounds a bit like a rebranded Eternal Masters, actually. I'm suspecting it will be aimed at Legacy and EDH / Commander largely because of all the surveys they have been sending out along with how the market really favors the sealed Commander Products. Last year they sold out rather fast and it's been a constant performer for Wizards that works both with casual players and legacy / competitive players.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 1

    posted a message on Iconic Masters November 2017
    Quote from Reesepuff »
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Different games have different problems. The one MtG has revolves around the card pool being managed horribly by Wizards of the Coast for the non-rotating formats. It is to the point that there are significant numbers of people who import illegal cards and forgeries to avoid the high secondary market prices because paying for 50-80+ per card when a deck can potentially require 8 or more of these high priced cards is well outside the financial realm of most people playing the game. While the game can certainly be played without these older cards, the high prices and net decking are putting their over the entire modern format.

    The hope that a lot of people are carrying at the moment is that Wizards is potentially turning things around on card availability with this coming year. Commander has always been a place they've used to reprint some staples and with two masters sets plus a return set they have a lot of room to bring back needed cards from the start of modern or before.

    The trouble I'm seeing is just the sheer volume of reprints needed across the entire board and a huge number of them are mythics now. They need to downshift the rarity on a bunch of cards they upshifted. Trying to kill a card by withering it on the vine doesn't work if the card is heavily played in modern or some other format. Snapcaster Mage was a disaster at mythic and the same with Cavern of Souls. The company is basically responsible for throwing those into the super high price category.


    Magic card availability is becoming more and more prevailing. I'm unsure how long you've been playing for but magic did change its printing policy during the start of Return to Ravnica block. Prior to that time a set would only be printed for a few limited months when that set was the newest. After RtR the sets are now printed on demand until two years later when the set rotates out of standard. This printing process has allowed far more cards to be issued and collected. Cards like snapcaster mage and liliana of the veil never dropped below 30 when that block rotated out, but even though they were a reprint all shock lands never stayed above 10 when they rotated. Watery grave is still a 15 dollar card after being released 5 years ago. Cards have become affordable, but unfortunately every single card they've ever printed cannot become affordable otherwise what's the point to magic being a collectible anyways?

    I've been playing since 2000, and intrinsic value is one of the things that has always kept players around. What's the point of spending money on cards if there's no return value? What the point of playing a game where you get nothing back? As we move foreword magic has to, and is evolving to accommodate the ever growing number of players vs the demand for cards which in my opinion has been handled quite well. With an MSRP of 3.99 a pack there has to be some form of value there, otherwise who would buy them? Just like in life everybody can't afford to do the same thing everyone else can. Unfortunately modern, and legacy should very well be left to the players who have worked hard at gaining their collection and want something to show for it. Eventually wizards will make another non rotating format to compensate for modern prices.


    To explain this blunty, it's not always about how much gets printed in bulk, but how much gets opened, who is opening it, and the rarity of the cards. The trouble the game has gotten into is that once cards go out of print the rarity scheme used to make draft viable limits the number of constructed playable cards, as the majority of those cards typically are at the rare and mythic level. So high demand cards, which more often then not are at those levels, quickly escalate in price. Wizards answer to addressing this is completely wrong. They basically got the feedback "we need more cards!" and instead of printing the exact cards people are asking for, they've printed even more draft sets as supplementary sets at a high MSRP. Just about the only set to date that was probably passable was Modern Masters 2013 and even then the limited run plus the high MSRP per box did little to help things on the market.

    Also, cards don't need to be 80 dollars ever. Cards can have intrinsic value and still cost 30 usd on the secondary market tops. The prices on the second hand market right now are from a complete lack of properly addressing demand at all by wizards and are no different than the amibo shortage issue that happened in the past or the shortage of Nintendo Classic Mini consoles that resulted in a scalpers market. Just because the TCG market has had the issues longer due to being more susceptible to it and enfranchised players are used to it doesn't make it any less wrong.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from ET1 »
    Price is a function of supply and demand. A card being overpriced means that the price of the card is above where the demand and supply curves intersect (in a hypothetical supply and demand economic model). What causes overpricing is often delayed effects such as price memory or future expectations. Standard isn't exactly an example of overpricing as the price of standard cards usually reflects the amount of play it receives in both standard and all other formats. Karn is likely overpriced right now due to price memory as well as future expectations (likely not going to be reprinted soon and thus supply on the market will likely fall).


    Price is a function of how well the company is addressing demand, which it is absolutely not doing despite people saying they want the cards. Instead, what they have done is basically "Oh, you want the cards. Let our marketing team figure out the prices and we'll get back to you. Oh okay, people are paying 80+ for the card, so we'll put it in here at mythic for you in the masters set that we charge 240 msrp for. Here you go!"

    This isn't addressing demand, it's using the lack of availability on the secondary market to maximize profits. It doesn't help players or collectors and it just drives speculators into a frenzy. I don't know, I just think the entire TCG model seems like it is difficult to run in a world where people can never forget about older cards. They got this slowly growing pool of cards that needs to be managed and even though a Arcbound Ravager may be 40 usd today, people still remember when it was 15 dollars and that is the kind of price a lot of players expect from heavily played cards. That and their penchant for novelty over playability in standard is getting a bit long in tooth.
    Posted in: Modern
  • 1

    posted a message on Iconic Masters November 2017
    Different games have different problems. The one MtG has revolves around the card pool being managed horribly by Wizards of the Coast for the non-rotating formats. It is to the point that there are significant numbers of people who import illegal cards and forgeries to avoid the high secondary market prices because paying for 50-80+ per card when a deck can potentially require 8 or more of these high priced cards is well outside the financial realm of most people playing the game. While the game can certainly be played without these older cards, the high prices and net decking are putting their shadow over the entire modern and probably the commander format now.

    The hope that a lot of people are carrying at the moment is that Wizards is potentially turning things around on card availability with this coming year. Commander has always been a place they've used to reprint some staples and with two masters sets plus a return set they have a lot of room to bring back needed cards from the start of modern or before.

    The trouble I'm seeing is just the sheer volume of reprints needed across the entire board and a huge number of them are mythics now. They need to downshift the rarity on a bunch of cards they upshifted. Trying to kill a card by withering it on the vine doesn't work if the card is heavily played in modern or some other format. Snapcaster Mage was a disaster at mythic and the same with Cavern of Souls. The company is basically responsible for throwing those into the super high price category. Hopefully they don't waste any slots doing upshifts with Iconic Masters and we see some downshifts happen on a few cards. Noble Hierarch needs some help here after her price just went to the sky, but I think in Iconic Masters we are more likely going to see Bloom tender as it's an elf with some more flexibility on fixing.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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