What's the best answer to Tron for us? There's a lot of people who play Tron in my meta. Is it really just GQ/TE and Surgical?
you can play up to 4 Ghost quarter MD in this deck and the manabase can handle it. Alongside expedition maps and (I play) 1 Tectonic Edge MD and another Tec Edge SB, the Tron matchup is manageable.
Thanks. I feel we'll be seeing a lot more of it now that Twin and Summer Bloom have been banned.
I'm also thinking SB Pithing Needle for Karn and Ugin.
My meta is dominated by Twin, Tron and Amulet. I've seen no aggro over the last 6 months at my LGSs. What would people recommend as sideboard for just the above three decks?
Curse of death's hold/Night and instant removal seems good for Twin, but what to do for Tron and Amulet? The ideas I've picked up from all the threads seem to be GQ and SE to get rid of their lands, but that seems a bit clunky.
Round them up and send them back. Make an example. Simple as that. Make it clear that their behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.
You can't, because it's not legal. As far as I'm aware in the EU, if someone is claiming asylum they get deported only if they commit a crime with a sentencing of a year or over.
I'm pretty sure stealing a wallet or sexual harassment have small sentences. Perhaps if someone is sentenced for rape, they will be deported.
So I was having a debate about the UR Twin matchup. Everyone knows what to bring in (claims, rending volleys, boil if you have them) but what to board out besides pyroclasm? I don't play MD Relic and I usually take out some number of Karns but I feel that Wurmcoil might be the right cut. I never want to tap out to play it and I feel karn can just steal the game easier. Maybe I just never draw my hate cards to be able to leave them up.
Wurmcoil Engine is better than Karn against Twin. Karn is good, but only if you get him out fast enough that exiling their lands can actually stall them from the combo, which means you need turn 3 Tron and him in hand and them not to have a Remand. Immediately afterwards, he becomes terrible because he does so little against the deck. Wurmcoil Engine is superior because its lifegain turns off their tempo plan permanently, meaning the combo becomes their only way to win. I take out all my Karns against Twin decks now.
Though the Relics (if played maindeck) are only worth cutting against UR Twin. If you're up against Grixis or RUG Twin, Relics are actually pretty darn good and very much worth bringing in postboard if they're in your sideboard.
Do you use Cavern of Souls to get the Wurmcoil out or do you just pray they don't have any counters?
The only deck i am kinda worried about is burn, so any tips on fighting that matchup with this version of the deck is helpful, but being able to win against UW Tron yesterday after they had Platinum Angel, Wurmcoil Engine, and Academy Ruins to buyback the angel multiple times was pretty epic, so that did help sway my opinion toward the jace version.
How have your matches played out?
And what changed to swing you more to the pro-Jace side?
Having 2 in the deck doesn't seem too much, how often do you see him? I was thinking of bumping him up to 4 as with 3 sometimes I miss him coming down early, so I'm interested to hear how you find 2 and what your strategy with him is
After lots of online jamming and a kind of terrible 3-3-0 drop SCG IQ experience (which i was worried about, considering my MODO testing started to go south in a hurry), i'm doing a complete 180 and I think Vryn Twin is terrible compared to the Jace-less version. Many traditional Grixis Twin decks did just fine at the SCG IQ i played in and i kept wishing i was on that deck.
Online and live, you lose a lot of games in between when you IoK someone and when you try to twin off. Its def easier, and better, to protect the combo through counter magic, as opposed to discard. I came to a lot of board stalls with Vryn Twin where i was finished firing off my discard and needed a combo piece to win. Jace is a terrible beater, so the combo is virtually the only way to go since you lack cards like Clique and (probably) Pestermites. Board stalls with the traditional version are great, because you are just drawing and countering anyways.
I've also been trying out Jace and am torn, though I'm quite new to Grixis Twin, so not particularly skilled with the deck. I picked up a playset of Jace when he was cheap and have some shiny ones, so I would be really happy to see him work in Twin.
Initially I took some counters out to fit Baby Jace and a couple more IoKs in. What seemed to happen with that deck is I kept wishing for more counters. Then I put some counters back in but removed more of the combo. This resulted in matches where I kept thinking "Where's my combo!?!"
Another issue I found with Baby Jace is I feel like I have to take Jace AoT out of the SB due to the Planeswalker rule. There's some token decks in my meta which AoT is good against though.
I guess at the moment when Baby Jace works it makes my deck feel more like a control deck than a combo deck, with the combo being the bomb. Perhaps there's a better balance, but at the moment I'm not really comfortable with the halfway house feel between control and combo which Baby Jace gives. Like I said I'm not particularly skilled though, so could be using the set-up wrong. I'm gonna keep playing around with it.
In the Jace version you should be playing control, not combo. By this I mean that you should seek to establish control and win going into the midrange, rather than combo out ASAP. Sometimes I win without my opponent even knowing I'm on Twin (I run a 4/3 split of exarch/twin), which makes the combo strong game 2. However, which hands you mulligan becomes tougher since you're not relying on the combo, but if you play Blue Jund it becomes more natural. I usually go for the combo if I have it early, or don't play it until they take care of one of my threats, in which case the combo comes down afree they've used up that removal. Jace deck is def control with a combo finish as your plan b, so 8 wouldn't recommend it if it's not your playstyle or if your meta is super fast (in which case the purer non-jace version is better)
I've been using the same split of exarch and twin and that's definitely how the deck feels: Control with a potential combo. I've actually won a couple of games with Jace's emblem.
Other than the combo what are your threats? I've just got a Tasigur and Pia MB atm.
I have been testing the Jace version a lot recently, and the matchup i am expecting to shore up more with it is the jund/junk matchup, and i still feel unfavored with the jace version.
With Jund I've found they tend towards a discard topdeck war anyway, so Jace Twin just kinda plays into their game plan (in my humble opinion).
After lots of online jamming and a kind of terrible 3-3-0 drop SCG IQ experience (which i was worried about, considering my MODO testing started to go south in a hurry), i'm doing a complete 180 and I think Vryn Twin is terrible compared to the Jace-less version. Many traditional Grixis Twin decks did just fine at the SCG IQ i played in and i kept wishing i was on that deck.
Online and live, you lose a lot of games in between when you IoK someone and when you try to twin off. Its def easier, and better, to protect the combo through counter magic, as opposed to discard. I came to a lot of board stalls with Vryn Twin where i was finished firing off my discard and needed a combo piece to win. Jace is a terrible beater, so the combo is virtually the only way to go since you lack cards like Clique and (probably) Pestermites. Board stalls with the traditional version are great, because you are just drawing and countering anyways.
I've also been trying out Jace and am torn, though I'm quite new to Grixis Twin, so not particularly skilled with the deck. I picked up a playset of Jace when he was cheap and have some shiny ones, so I would be really happy to see him work in Twin.
Initially I took some counters out to fit Baby Jace and a couple more IoKs in. What seemed to happen with that deck is I kept wishing for more counters. Then I put some counters back in but removed more of the combo. This resulted in matches where I kept thinking "Where's my combo!?!"
Another issue I found with Baby Jace is I feel like I have to take Jace AoT out of the SB due to the Planeswalker rule. There's some token decks in my meta which AoT is good against though.
I guess at the moment when Baby Jace works it makes my deck feel more like a control deck than a combo deck, with the combo being the bomb. Perhaps there's a better balance, but at the moment I'm not really comfortable with the halfway house feel between control and combo which Baby Jace gives. Like I said I'm not particularly skilled though, so could be using the set-up wrong. I'm gonna keep playing around with it.
If my opponent casts an instant or sorcery on Jace, like Path to Exile, Wild Slash or Crackling Doom, and then I tap Jace, does Jace's whole ability go on the stack? Or just the first part where I draw and discard a card, then my opponents spell, then the rest of Jace's ability?
I honestly think if you're not playing 4 Ulamog's you're doing it wrong. Get in some early ramp, some radiant flames to burn early aggro, some Nissa's Renewal for rebalancing your health and getting some land out, a bit of tutelage, then just exile the hell out of everything with Ulamog's. Feels good.
Good point
Thanks. I feel we'll be seeing a lot more of it now that Twin and Summer Bloom have been banned.
I'm also thinking SB Pithing Needle for Karn and Ugin.
Curse of death's hold/Night and instant removal seems good for Twin, but what to do for Tron and Amulet? The ideas I've picked up from all the threads seem to be GQ and SE to get rid of their lands, but that seems a bit clunky.
You can't, because it's not legal. As far as I'm aware in the EU, if someone is claiming asylum they get deported only if they commit a crime with a sentencing of a year or over.
I'm pretty sure stealing a wallet or sexual harassment have small sentences. Perhaps if someone is sentenced for rape, they will be deported.
Do you use Cavern of Souls to get the Wurmcoil out or do you just pray they don't have any counters?
How have your matches played out?
And what changed to swing you more to the pro-Jace side?
Having 2 in the deck doesn't seem too much, how often do you see him? I was thinking of bumping him up to 4 as with 3 sometimes I miss him coming down early, so I'm interested to hear how you find 2 and what your strategy with him is
I've been using the same split of exarch and twin and that's definitely how the deck feels: Control with a potential combo. I've actually won a couple of games with Jace's emblem.
Other than the combo what are your threats? I've just got a Tasigur and Pia MB atm.
With Jund I've found they tend towards a discard topdeck war anyway, so Jace Twin just kinda plays into their game plan (in my humble opinion).
I've also been trying out Jace and am torn, though I'm quite new to Grixis Twin, so not particularly skilled with the deck. I picked up a playset of Jace when he was cheap and have some shiny ones, so I would be really happy to see him work in Twin.
Initially I took some counters out to fit Baby Jace and a couple more IoKs in. What seemed to happen with that deck is I kept wishing for more counters. Then I put some counters back in but removed more of the combo. This resulted in matches where I kept thinking "Where's my combo!?!"
Another issue I found with Baby Jace is I feel like I have to take Jace AoT out of the SB due to the Planeswalker rule. There's some token decks in my meta which AoT is good against though.
I guess at the moment when Baby Jace works it makes my deck feel more like a control deck than a combo deck, with the combo being the bomb. Perhaps there's a better balance, but at the moment I'm not really comfortable with the halfway house feel between control and combo which Baby Jace gives. Like I said I'm not particularly skilled though, so could be using the set-up wrong. I'm gonna keep playing around with it.
If my opponent casts an instant or sorcery on Jace, like Path to Exile, Wild Slash or Crackling Doom, and then I tap Jace, does Jace's whole ability go on the stack? Or just the first part where I draw and discard a card, then my opponents spell, then the rest of Jace's ability?
Thanks.
16 copies in the top eight, 87 copies in the top 64 and that is because he is all hype and no substance?
I don't think so.