I dunno if anyone reads this thread anymore, but there have been a couple interesting printings over the last few years that seem potentially good for the deck (even if all "Slow Play" rules are still in full effect).
Syr Konrad, the Grim replaces the Sharuum+Station combo with a single card; thereby increasing the odds of milling a properly-ordered library from the 25% odds for {BS,DR,StH}{Emmy} up to 33% odds for {DR,SKtG}{Emmy} on a per-loop/per-attempt basis.
Teferi, Time Raveler is a planeswalker that does most of what Leyline of Anticipation offers, but with some added bounce flexibility, Force/Surgical protection, and a lower mid-game casting cost.
Creeping Chill which, while useless to our infinite-damage loop, can give another free 1-loop reroll around "Slow Play" rules.
Karn, the Great Creator can function as both a combo tutor or silver-bullet tutor (depending on sideboard) in addition to being a 1-way Null Rod.
And there are probably many other options, depending on how far afield you want to go, but the above all seem to be mostly on-plan. No clue if any of this is enough to overcome the "pseudo-Fizzle" odds that the "Slow Play" rules have introduced to the deck, however.
Basically, you assemble the three-piece-combo by (ideally) casting Rallier on turn-3 with another 1/3 of the combo in play and the other 1/3 in the graveyard (assuming Revolt is active). Then Rallier's ETB brings the missing third piece into play so you have Rallier+Altar+Ghostform/Saffi. From there, you repeatedly sac' Rallier to Altar to bin some cards (either yours or your opponent's deck, matchup depending) while having Ghostform/Saffi effects return Rallier to play (which then grabs Ghostform/Saffi for the reset) to empty either player's library.
As far as I can tell this combo works just fine with Emmy in the deck (so long as you're stacking triggers correctly) and can win via opponent-mill (or a 1-of Thassa's Oracle). So, what are your thoughts? Is GWb a bit too in-the-weeds for a variant of this deck (especially considering one well-timed instant-speed removal spell can disrupt the combo if you don't have an Ephemerate or such in hand)?
...I've been thinking about picking up Eldrazi and Taxes... how vital is aether vial for the deck to work?... would Thraben inspector be a useable replacement?...
However, if you look closely at how both those decks function you'll see that they've been heavily tweaked to run different gameplans.
Trying to make a no-Vial no-Chalice build (i.e. a "budget" version) workable is going to take some brewing design/thought on your part to make a coherent gameplan. Can you rely on racing the opponent without that virtual mana available from Vial? Is Wisp still good enough without it? Does the deck need more card draw (Copter, Inspector, etc.) if it can't rely on Vial tricks? You might also want to look into the no-Vial 'Jason Simard' build from GP Vancouver to see if any of those ideas could help with what you're able to work with.
... Obviously Smasher would be pretty impactful on those matches (I wouldn't side them in otherwise). However, I couldn't cast them without giving up cycling my Silent Clearings into something that could make a difference faster.
Did you already crack other Clearings before reaching that point?
I ask because "4-lands out, but can't cast Smasher" is a situation that could happen even if those Silent Clearings were Concealed Courtyards. Having more options isn't a bad thing (unless you're driving yourself insane).
That said, if you found you were cracking lands faster than normal in a typical game, and thus reaching 4cmc-5cmc is a couple turns slower in any given game, that's a different story. Going from ~4xGQ being the only consumable lands up to 7x-8x between GQ and SC might actually be a significant increase.
Basically, I'm wondering if it's a playstyle thing, where you have to sandbag a bit more (instead of cycling) when you've sided in Smashers.
Did the addition of carrion feeder add any new combos we can fetch?
Carrion Feeder is basically the same as Viscera Seer; though I suppose it can swing for lethal if you hardcast it on a previous turn rather than digging it out with Hulk.
... Yawgmoth, Thran Physician could be something young wolf + Essence Warden draw whole deck. Problem with this combo is i don't think the wolf can reanimate then have the -1/-1 counter applied, sacrificing to yawgmoth might disable the abilities target with nothing to put the counter on.
I'm pretty sure you're right about the timing issues regarding putting -1/-1 counters the very Young Wolf that you sacrifice for the effect; however, Young Wolf and Essence Warden being 1cmc creatures also makes them easy to cast in an earlier turn. Hulk-fetching Yawg+Wolf+Wolf might be perfectly fine when Warden is already in play (or something more permanent like Ajani's Welcome).
However, a different MH1 card that looks very good is Vesperlark. Being 3cmc compared to Reveillark's 5cmc (while still being able to revive Body Double) opens up a ton of new options for pulling win conditions out of the deck (Mogg and Death Cultist being the only 1cmc options that worked with Rlark for a kill loop). With 3cmc worth of cards to tutor, Zulaport Cuthroat becomes a very good target (and you can grab a backup Viscera Seer as well). Perhaps the biggest boon that Vlark has going for it is the very very attractive evoke cost of 2cmc; which is actually cheap enough to hardcast if you have the right combination of bodies in the graveyard.
An instant-speed Wheel that we can drop on an opponent's endstep like CoCo players get to do is definitely interesting.
I think the current Surgical Extraction meta still makes it hard to really pull off that big shields-down play reliably, though; but it could be that I'm just underestimating our ability to play Sorcerous Spyglass, Damping Sphere, etc.
Just one quick question? What do you guys want to see forum the primer update and how would you like me to make contributions? PM if it’s something in great detail.
I dunno if it'd be best posted somewhere on the front page Primer, in the Leonin Library, or stapled chronologically into the thread as quarterly updates... but I was a big fan of the "LSV Set Review"-esque thing that you did a couple times here highlighting D&T-relevant pickups. (Though I can't find an example to link to for the life of me.)
They sort of made for neat old signposts like "Oh yeah, AKH/HOU had some neat stuff like GBI, GideonOTT, Shefet Dunes, and Dusk/Dawn." especially when there's some 20/20-hindsight followup somewhere with the "Dang. We were totally sleeping on Thraben Inspector, guys." type commentary.
May I ask whether you could suggest a cheap(er) alternative manabase to build the deck on MTGO? The other cards are rather affordable, it's just the fetchlands (and shocklands, to a lesser extent) really...
If you trim down to Rakdos (like ktkenshinx and Exatraz have done on the previous page) you can save yourself the cost of those Scalding Tarns.
Their manabases each run some number of Fetches/Fastlands which are on the expensive end, but you can probably get by replacing them with a manabase centered around Shocks/Checklands.
You should probably grab a few MTGO copies of Through the Breach with the savings; it's a useful card for dodging graveyard hate and is cheaper on MTGO right now than it has been in a long time.
I've tried it ages ago (pre-AER), and retried it recently with Militia Bugler.
Initially, with nothing but once-per-turn topdeck draws it was very iffy getting the card in the games you needed it. So some games you drew Vial and Eidolon in that order and were golden, other games you got Eidolon without Vial and were screwed, and some games you're just wishing you'd draw the damn Eidolon. It was extremely high variance, but the goods never felt as great or as frequent as they needed to be.
With Bugler I found I was much more able to dig into Eidolons when I needed them, or filter past them when I couldn't play around them myself. This really reduced the variance and made them much more survivable. I'm not sure how truly viable it makes them, but it definitely feels much better than before. (It was also nice playing them with 2xCopter as Eidolons do about as much combat as the average Tidehollow Sculler.)
I don't have any sort of polished list, but will mention Scab-Clan Berserker works great as copies 5-X of Eidolon, and recommend heavily skewing the manabase toward red if you're considering this much double-red.
...So on T3 you would have about a 75-85% chance to hit with the standard mono white 14-18 hits (14 assumes you have a couple hits in hand when you cast it)...
Sure, an oldschool "Classic" Monowhite build might run something like 4xWisp 4xResto and 2xBigFlex (e.g. 3/X bodies like Brimaz, Serra, BigSisThalia) and would have about 10-in-28 bodies unfindable by Bugler... but you're not really going to slot Bugler into a list like that by trimming Thalias, Arbiters, etc.
If you trim about half the top-end to make room for Bugler, so that only 5-in-28 bodies whiff, then your T3 odds jump from 75-85% up to something more like 85-92% and it gets really hard to completely whiff with Bugler.
However, the most important thing about Bugler isn't that he simply replaces himself like a Matter Reshaper or something; the important thing is that he digs like a beast for what you want. If you're on a solid opener like T1 Vial T2 Thalia and your opponent kills Thalia because they really want to combo off later, then T3 Bugler is going to dig into a replacement Thalia for you to vial-in about 23% of the time. Yeah, it's not a sure thing, but it's definitely better than waiting on a topdeck. If you break it down into different outcomes it's 23% get the replacement Thalia we'd want, another 18% to get a retry with a second Bugler, then another 45% chance to card-replace with anything else, and only 14% chance to completely whiff. That distribution skews pretty nicely in our favor.
The other great thing about the card is how often it lets you see every part of your deck. Just landing one or two Buglers makes it really hard to "draw the wrong half of your deck" since you get to churn through so many more cards than usual, which really ups the consistency of the deck. In playtesting I've had 2x includes feel like 3x-4x includes I've been seeing them so often, which is just great for usually-decent-but-situationally-great maindeck cards (and phenomenal for sideboard tech). This actually opens up new deck-design considerations, as 2x includes of creatures like Vryn Wingmare or Aven Mindcensor (which can really put the screws to an opponent when we're ahead on a certain axis, but are quite lackluster when we're behind) can be more viable with Bugler there to filter to/through them.
Hey All! I know how much you nerds love seeing some data on the thread...
...So here's a hit-percentage table I made for everyone's favorite new card: Militia Bugler. Take a look, leave a like, and DM me here on mtgSalvation if you find any mistakes or have any ideas for improvements.
No splash at all, and the list is...
Any kind of advice or guide for sideboard/match ups is welcome
It might feel pretty unsplashed since the manabase isn't splashing for any specific color, but there's actually a significant Eldrazi splash you have going on with the 4xDisplacer 3xTKS and 4xTemple.
Part of your trouble with the posted list versus Affinity specifically is that you're so low on early 1-mana plays and fliers. Running Thraben Inspector can help you chump-clog the ground a bit earlier so you aren't dead as quickly due to lack of blockers. Some cheap fliers can also help in those instances where you don't have a Path/GQ ready versus a Ravager-pumped Inkmoth.
- Syr Konrad, the Grim replaces the Sharuum+Station combo with a single card; thereby increasing the odds of milling a properly-ordered library from the 25% odds for {BS,DR,StH}{Emmy} up to 33% odds for {DR,SKtG}{Emmy} on a per-loop/per-attempt basis.
- Teferi, Time Raveler is a planeswalker that does most of what Leyline of Anticipation offers, but with some added bounce flexibility, Force/Surgical protection, and a lower mid-game casting cost.
- Creeping Chill which, while useless to our infinite-damage loop, can give another free 1-loop reroll around "Slow Play" rules.
- Karn, the Great Creator can function as both a combo tutor or silver-bullet tutor (depending on sideboard) in addition to being a 1-way Null Rod.
And there are probably many other options, depending on how far afield you want to go, but the above all seem to be mostly on-plan. No clue if any of this is enough to overcome the "pseudo-Fizzle" odds that the "Slow Play" rules have introduced to the deck, however.The combo I was up against involved Renegade Rallier+Altar of Dementia and either (Kaya's Ghostform or Saffi Eriksdotter).
Basically, you assemble the three-piece-combo by (ideally) casting Rallier on turn-3 with another 1/3 of the combo in play and the other 1/3 in the graveyard (assuming Revolt is active). Then Rallier's ETB brings the missing third piece into play so you have Rallier+Altar+Ghostform/Saffi. From there, you repeatedly sac' Rallier to Altar to bin some cards (either yours or your opponent's deck, matchup depending) while having Ghostform/Saffi effects return Rallier to play (which then grabs Ghostform/Saffi for the reset) to empty either player's library.
As far as I can tell this combo works just fine with Emmy in the deck (so long as you're stacking triggers correctly) and can win via opponent-mill (or a 1-of Thassa's Oracle). So, what are your thoughts? Is GWb a bit too in-the-weeds for a variant of this deck (especially considering one well-timed instant-speed removal spell can disrupt the combo if you don't have an Ephemerate or such in hand)?
That said, something like the most recently posted 'SpiderSpace' MonoWhite Eldrazi/Stompy list on mtgGoldfish shows that running 4xVial isn't a requirement to win games (though the 4xChalice of the Void are even more expensive than Vial).
However, if you look closely at how both those decks function you'll see that they've been heavily tweaked to run different gameplans.
Trying to make a no-Vial no-Chalice build (i.e. a "budget" version) workable is going to take some brewing design/thought on your part to make a coherent gameplan. Can you rely on racing the opponent without that virtual mana available from Vial? Is Wisp still good enough without it? Does the deck need more card draw (Copter, Inspector, etc.) if it can't rely on Vial tricks? You might also want to look into the no-Vial 'Jason Simard' build from GP Vancouver to see if any of those ideas could help with what you're able to work with.
I ask because "4-lands out, but can't cast Smasher" is a situation that could happen even if those Silent Clearings were Concealed Courtyards. Having more options isn't a bad thing (unless you're driving yourself insane).
That said, if you found you were cracking lands faster than normal in a typical game, and thus reaching 4cmc-5cmc is a couple turns slower in any given game, that's a different story. Going from ~4xGQ being the only consumable lands up to 7x-8x between GQ and SC might actually be a significant increase.
Basically, I'm wondering if it's a playstyle thing, where you have to sandbag a bit more (instead of cycling) when you've sided in Smashers.
I'm pretty sure you're right about the timing issues regarding putting -1/-1 counters the very Young Wolf that you sacrifice for the effect; however, Young Wolf and Essence Warden being 1cmc creatures also makes them easy to cast in an earlier turn. Hulk-fetching Yawg+Wolf+Wolf might be perfectly fine when Warden is already in play (or something more permanent like Ajani's Welcome).
However, a different MH1 card that looks very good is Vesperlark. Being 3cmc compared to Reveillark's 5cmc (while still being able to revive Body Double) opens up a ton of new options for pulling win conditions out of the deck (Mogg and Death Cultist being the only 1cmc options that worked with Rlark for a kill loop). With 3cmc worth of cards to tutor, Zulaport Cuthroat becomes a very good target (and you can grab a backup Viscera Seer as well). Perhaps the biggest boon that Vlark has going for it is the very very attractive evoke cost of 2cmc; which is actually cheap enough to hardcast if you have the right combination of bodies in the graveyard.
I think the current Surgical Extraction meta still makes it hard to really pull off that big shields-down play reliably, though; but it could be that I'm just underestimating our ability to play Sorcerous Spyglass, Damping Sphere, etc.
They sort of made for neat old signposts like "Oh yeah, AKH/HOU had some neat stuff like GBI, GideonOTT, Shefet Dunes, and Dusk/Dawn." especially when there's some 20/20-hindsight followup somewhere with the "Dang. We were totally sleeping on Thraben Inspector, guys." type commentary.
Their manabases each run some number of Fetches/Fastlands which are on the expensive end, but you can probably get by replacing them with a manabase centered around Shocks/Checklands.
You should probably grab a few MTGO copies of Through the Breach with the savings; it's a useful card for dodging graveyard hate and is cheaper on MTGO right now than it has been in a long time.
Initially, with nothing but once-per-turn topdeck draws it was very iffy getting the card in the games you needed it. So some games you drew Vial and Eidolon in that order and were golden, other games you got Eidolon without Vial and were screwed, and some games you're just wishing you'd draw the damn Eidolon. It was extremely high variance, but the goods never felt as great or as frequent as they needed to be.
With Bugler I found I was much more able to dig into Eidolons when I needed them, or filter past them when I couldn't play around them myself. This really reduced the variance and made them much more survivable. I'm not sure how truly viable it makes them, but it definitely feels much better than before. (It was also nice playing them with 2xCopter as Eidolons do about as much combat as the average Tidehollow Sculler.)
I don't have any sort of polished list, but will mention Scab-Clan Berserker works great as copies 5-X of Eidolon, and recommend heavily skewing the manabase toward red if you're considering this much double-red.
Sure, an oldschool "Classic" Monowhite build might run something like 4xWisp 4xResto and 2xBigFlex (e.g. 3/X bodies like Brimaz, Serra, BigSisThalia) and would have about 10-in-28 bodies unfindable by Bugler... but you're not really going to slot Bugler into a list like that by trimming Thalias, Arbiters, etc.
If you trim about half the top-end to make room for Bugler, so that only 5-in-28 bodies whiff, then your T3 odds jump from 75-85% up to something more like 85-92% and it gets really hard to completely whiff with Bugler.
However, the most important thing about Bugler isn't that he simply replaces himself like a Matter Reshaper or something; the important thing is that he digs like a beast for what you want. If you're on a solid opener like T1 Vial T2 Thalia and your opponent kills Thalia because they really want to combo off later, then T3 Bugler is going to dig into a replacement Thalia for you to vial-in about 23% of the time. Yeah, it's not a sure thing, but it's definitely better than waiting on a topdeck. If you break it down into different outcomes it's 23% get the replacement Thalia we'd want, another 18% to get a retry with a second Bugler, then another 45% chance to card-replace with anything else, and only 14% chance to completely whiff. That distribution skews pretty nicely in our favor.
The other great thing about the card is how often it lets you see every part of your deck. Just landing one or two Buglers makes it really hard to "draw the wrong half of your deck" since you get to churn through so many more cards than usual, which really ups the consistency of the deck. In playtesting I've had 2x includes feel like 3x-4x includes I've been seeing them so often, which is just great for usually-decent-but-situationally-great maindeck cards (and phenomenal for sideboard tech). This actually opens up new deck-design considerations, as 2x includes of creatures like Vryn Wingmare or Aven Mindcensor (which can really put the screws to an opponent when we're ahead on a certain axis, but are quite lackluster when we're behind) can be more viable with Bugler there to filter to/through them.
Militia Bugler Math
GoogleDoc: Here
Hey All! I know how much you nerds love seeing some data on the thread...
...So here's a hit-percentage table I made for everyone's favorite new card: Militia Bugler. Take a look, leave a like, and DM me here on mtgSalvation if you find any mistakes or have any ideas for improvements.
Part of your trouble with the posted list versus Affinity specifically is that you're so low on early 1-mana plays and fliers. Running Thraben Inspector can help you chump-clog the ground a bit earlier so you aren't dead as quickly due to lack of blockers. Some cheap fliers can also help in those instances where you don't have a Path/GQ ready versus a Ravager-pumped Inkmoth.