Yeah I estimated sooo low HAHA.
Its actually 16 feldon's cane, maybe it gets a little higher with that. Thanks a lot FortyTwo for the input xD! I will try to finish this and make an estimation somehow.
I didn't get how Precursor golem effect is superior, but I will try to see a decklist with him that has been posted here. I mean, I guess with 4 of them for 4x triggers, I need to check how it works, thx!
Edit: I guess maybe Arcane Adaptation and swap mana crypt with black lotus to generate blue for it. Then swap the goblin ritual for Battle hymn, also putting your suggestions. I need to see how much damage the other decks got haha.
My nerdy feelings love this thread hahah.
I have searched for a deck like this, since I didn't find it I have a nice suggestion, probably not the most damage possible, I'm not sure how to do the math also haha, but it is based on my little EDH commander xD.
Didn't finish the deck still, but the idea is simple, put zada on the battlefield, draw your deck, generate mana, pump the team and do it like over 60 times, this would go infinite with Elixir of Immortality, so I left that out.
Start with:
Mox Ruby
Mana Crypt
Seething Song
Empty for 8 goblins
Ritual with the mana left for 8 red mana
Zada, Hedron Grinder
Target Zada with Fists of Flame, draw 9 cards
Use another ritual, Use some spells, Empty, another Fists of Flame, Platinum Angel to not lose to deck repeat to draw the whole deck, generate much more goblins, more mana, pump the team with Fists of Flame , which will give +53/0 for each creature in the first round, shuffle the whole gy back with a single Expedite in hand, draw the whole deck and give them haste, do it again and again... Fists start to give 100, 200, 300... for each creature
I think this can produce an absurd amount of damage, and non-infinite by the way, I hope someone finds this interesting also xD, Haze of Rage also makes absurd amounts of pump
A little guess here, I made an estimation that you would end up with something like 100k goblins, I think that s pretty close, the pumps are waaay harder to do it, because Haze would be cast like 100 times or more, and not all of them on the field until the last one. Its probably way over a billion damage already.
Edgar is not a problem because we play at 20 life. He would be a problem even in a 30 life format, because he gives the player an emblem that can't be interacted with and that generates tons of advantage. That is not an issue of life points, the card is basically perverting the idea of playing commander by giving you a free effect without ever needing to move your commander from the command zone. That's why it should be banned.
I disagree a bit here, there are decks that are powerful on 30HP and decks that are powerful on 20HP, This is clearly much more powerful on 20HP. The reason is what I said on the MTGO ban speculation thread, there are decks that do not care how many creatures you are putting into play, or whatever you are doing, as long as you are not disrupting enough or killing fast enough. The 10HP cushion is enough for a couple of decks to have a positive matchup against Markov, even more against Arahbo. Put this deck against Animar, Selvala, Nissa or Maelstrom Wanderer, such decks are hardly playable on 20HP or will be slower than Markov, Markov to be fast has too few interactions and therefore you need to ask the question for 30HP, how often can Markov kill on turn4/5? That is the turn for combo decks, and the reason why combo is not present on 20HP, Zurgo kills consitently on T4, so does Markov, but with 30HP how often does that happen if there is actually a hand that kills on T4 with 30hp.
I would actually say this will be a powerful deck on MTGO, but what will probably take the meta and are banwothy are Kess and Inalla, for how they fight the meta at 30hp.
Anyway all that said, I wouldn't worry too much if you are playing this deck on 30HP, but on DC it will probably get banned very soon, it fights the current meta with perfection, it does even better than Bruse. Bruse got banned because he putted C.A, life gaining and pressure all in the same deck, Markov does all that because Vampires have lifelink, creates token and pressures life points fast... He is a threat even bigger than Bruse was.
Well at Leviathan I've seen some reports, he looks to be competitive, but he has a hard time against decks that don't care about life points, those decks are just faster than the damage he can push through. Also a guy on a local Shop built him(they play MTGO list there), it looked like he did pretty good against the heavy blue decks and aggressive decks, but suffered a bit against big creature/combo decks like Nissa/Selvala/Animar...
I think he takes over the meta at DC because there is no combo, so he is just too fast for the meta, also vampires, most of them have lifelink which breaks the back bone of Zurgo
Basically what I see is that lifelink prays on the aggressive decks, and the tokens pray on the slower blue decks and also aggro decks, I guess his biggest weakness on 30HP are the big mana combo decks, that pushing 1/1 lifelink every turn is not enough to race them
I think he was talking about 30HP, because he said that before, but even at 30HP I never found so much problem with MW. If the deck is either fast enough, or can delay MW destroying lands/artifacts, it usually does very very well against it, a strong deck, but I also don't really consider it uninteractive.
Anyway, I think both his lists would be much better than it is now, a little more aggressive on WoTC list, but still pretty nice. Also why is no one "unbanning" Griselbrand xD? He is very very fair on commander 1v1, he as a commander was always tier 2 or more (the reason they said he is banned) and in the 99 he was never that incredible because reanimator never actually went over about 5% of the meta, which is pretty low.
@fsecco: that list is... Leviathan without Vial xD, which I think makes a lot of sense because well, Leviathan had all the experience from DC and made the decisions on that which I think is working pretty nice. They only differences I would make is keeping Yisan banned, not for its power only, but its a type of deck that I don't think is that interactive/needed for the meta,
ban Baral instead of Emrakul, the strategy is still alive through Vendillion Clique, which is much less oppressive and very fair.
Banning High tide is more than enough for Jace, or ban Jace itself since Teferi is indeed strong, but I don't consider it as a pain Jace was.
That's what I think about the format, but anyway, I see anyone here basically that draws up a ban list will come with something better than the actual.
I disagree about it can't be balanced, it can and it was.
Both 20HP and 30HP can be balanced, the thing is, WoTC is ignoring everything done over DC/Leviathan/any other Commander format and taking their own decisions, we all know Tasigur, Breya and others... But they just closed their eyes for it so its taking much longer for the list to be tunned. DC is taking a path that I don't think they even have an idea at what they are doing, like banning Geist is ok, but when you unban Cataclysm, unban Balance and only later think Geist is a problem is really weird... Well if Geist could've be a problem why unban the 2 best wraths for Geist if not the 2 best cards from it?
DC for me lost all its respect, and I'm not talking about LP, its about a bunch of choices that I don't have a minimum idea where they are coming from, like banning both chromes to unban Fastbond and whatever... For who has physical decks its very hard to keep up with it, WoTC is taking a blind path that we all know it will lead to nowhere, banning cantrips thinking that is what makes Breya, Tasi, Baral strong... while those 3 where crippled or banned in all 1v1 commander formats, even at 20HP where blue is not as much of an issue.
Resuming, 1v1 commander can probably be balanced, but when all formats take such a strange path of banlist, choices and rules, its very very hard for that to happen any time soon.
For me any color combination is playable, because I consider the commander to be what makes or not the deck playable. I'll give an example, red by its nature, is the worst color for multiplayer commander, red wants to kill fast and interacts with life points, which is exactly why I consider it the worse color for commander when the games are much longer and lifepoints are way higher, but mono-red has a LOT of strong commanders like Krenko, Zada, Daretti, Neheb, Purphoros and even more on the list, you build a deck with them at helm abusing their abilities and it looks like as if red is one of the best colors for commander when it isn't. For me that is what lacks Boros from actually being "tier 1" on multiplayer, there are few strategies that doesn't involve turning creatures sideways in Boros legends, and you need to hit for like what? 120, 160, 200 lifepoints? Not so easy right.
Resuming, it deepends on how cutthroat your friends are on their decks, since its a non-combo environment Boros gets a little boost already, and the best tunned Aurelia as you want to build, can do pretty fine on the table, just don't expect for the deck to be the deck to beat, because it probably won't. It can compete, it will be strong enough for multiplayer, but it won't be the best.
About Tabernacle:
Just a little about my opinion also on tabernacle... I think a lot of decks would be extremely fine playing against it, but if we think about a real world situation... Why should it actually needed be unbanned? So few people are going to have access for it, and it can be a crucial card on some decks to be considered fully tuned, I think this should also matter and not just power level. Today I think Candelabra is the most expensive card that is playable on high level in commander, and it is very specific for a single deck, high tide.
I take a lot of that when I think what should be unbanned, tabernacle can go in so many decks, different from legacy where only in Lands it actually fits well, here any control deck would be willing to use it, because it hits hard indeed in the creature heavy decks, I'm not a fan of giving restricted defensive powers for a couple of people who has more acquisitive ways to get it.
Its exactly the same thought I have for Bazaar of Baghdad, I have a Sidisi BUG deck, that would go EXTREMELY perfect for it, but I wouldn't like to see it unbanned, because even though it isn't nearly as broken as it is on Vintage, since we can't chain up dredge effects making zombies even close to what in vintage happens, it is a very very hard card to physically obtain and would be restricted to whoever has it.
I know price shouldn't come when you ban some card, but in the opposite direction the unban, it should be considered. If it gets unbanned and people use it, and also it isn't oppressive, then you will have a big problem to ban it "because of price tag". So I truly believe price should be considered before any unbans.
About Partner:
I'll disagree here who says partner mechanics is problematic, for me it isn't and I think we have enough data to show that. Vial is absurd, he is not made to 1v1 as you read the card it gives that away VERY VERY clearly, so he is just wrong. Bruse can be said as oppressive, but for me he was always a meta choice, he was just slightly more used than Zurgo (not all partner aggros had him), he had something like 16-17% in top8, Zurgo had 14%. He is a tier 1.5 deck when it comes to 30HP, and at 20HP he was the counterpart of Zurgo, which is why I said Zurgo will rocket lauch without him in the format. He simply could hold almost all agressive decks, which is why he became so popular,I don't think in DC or MTGO any other partner combination will go over 10%, unless some strange choice is made on the format for that to happen. And before all this, I had said Bruse would go up a lot in uses, because he just preys on most agressive decks while also being good against control since the partner mechanics is just so good against control decks, but Bruse was also good against aggressive decks... which brought out a deck that was good against the 2 main archetypes today on DC. I can't see any other partner doing both roles as I saw here, so I doubt any will take that much the meta, I do believe some combination will be tier 1, but at around 5-7% portion of the meta.
I'll disagree a bit, I don't think it will break anything on the format like some believe, but Hymn is not better than Mind Twist and randomly discarding is different than discard like the other card you posted. At mono-B, and only at it, maybe, maybe hymn is better, at any other deck that splashes black with something, mainly green, Mind Twist gives too much options, at any X from 2 to 7 it is an absurd card because of it giving the option of X. I don't think it needed to come to the format, not because of its power, but I don't know if people are noticing how much randomness they are trying to add to DC on the last updates, its FastBond that can give absurd starts, Mind Twist, Balance, Cataclysm... A lot of chaotic cards that can turn the game, I'm not sure if I aprove this ramdomness they are trying to add, as if ramdomness would be equals to balanced meta, for me it isn't.
They want, they are unbanning broken things to try that, I think that is a horrible approach... Unbanning Fastbond is the same as saying "Hey we want some combos here, so use this!", I hate the approach of lets unban some broken stuff to see if they make a deck out of it, because even if combo exists through that card, it doesn't help diversity at all, since all the others are just too slow. Combo is always the hardest do balance, since you need to put it in the borderline of non-playable and broken, right now all of them are on non-playable. For me in MHO, 25 HP would fix a LOT of things right now... Zurgo would not be an issue, Bruse wouldn't even need to be banned, 5 HP cushion balances out with the slower way combo/full control decks work on 100 card 1-of, and it isn't as large as 10HP... Anyway, maybe someday that can happen.
I think if there were a double ban with Zurgo and lets say its most powerful card... Price of Progress, Kari Zev would be fast, but not overkill as Zurgo is. I don't think filling Kari Zev for a bunch of 1-drops would be good, so I guess its speed is pretty slower than Zurgo for not having that 1 mana permanent and enough to give breathing space for other types of decks that gets destroyed by Zurgo to be able to play, still pretty hard, but maybe it will give half a turn more than Zurgo does. The thing about Zurgo is that it can be a ridiculous fast deck that can curve its drop on 2, since you guarantee a drop 1, which means your quality draws are just great for a burn deck, you get only the best 1-mana cards and curve the rest of the deck on 2 and 3, and some finishing 4-mana. That with 8 cards, pretty insane...
The problem is that Bruse kept Zurgo at a "low" 14%, now it will go to the 20% mark and that is very very predictable... probably some Karlov/lifegain and decks that can pray on Zurgo will be more playable, but I always hated the meta/anti-meta type of decks, it sufocates too many strategies.
Bruse the main archenemy of Zurgo is gone now, Geist the other not so great matchup of Zurgo also gone... Okay, who here is not going to play Zurgo or anti-burn? The meta will again be divided by 2 decks/archetypes.
Also Mind Twist? Really? what good does it bring to any meta? Also fastbond is stupid, having a possible turn 1 kill because of "luck" is not good for commander, we don't have a guaranteed daze/FoW to stop T1 kills. Moxes were banned because of fast mana and then you unban 2 fast mana through Ancient and Fastbond, WHAT?????
Sorry if you intend to ban Bruse, Zurgo NEEDS to go with it, Bruse is THE deck that kept Zurgo at "only" 14%, which is even higher then the banned Geist, also unbanning fast mana after banning fast mana doesn't make any sense...
I wanted an agressive approach for the banlist, but this looks just like wild guesses the same thing WoTC is doing, both of the formats should give hands together and disappear...
Geist only got to this point because of YOUR choices, why not just ban the cards that you had banned before? Cataclysm and Balance, so you unban those to ban Geist? non-sense...
Zurgo just got its two main enemies down, so lets play I don't know, Zurgo, some BW lifegain deck or Titania...
The problem is that they totally ignored EVERYTHING done for commander 1v1, and of course letting Vial play for so long, letting Breya/Baral/Tasigur/Jace play now its just awful in my opinion... I know Tasi/Jace are not doing that well, but that for me its because there are brutal decks before it, and when they go Tasi will take up the meta with Jace... Its like everything we've seen in DC/Leviathan, and they don't care about those datas, Breya/Tasigur got banned in DC, Jace/Baral got nerfed in Leviathan, they are just ignoring all that and making some weird decisions on their own, so its like a format from scratch, no one wants to enter a league they are forced to play with 3-4 commanders, DC got the number of players back then, because of the huge diversity it had, you can't expect people to be interested in the format when you see something like this:
Commander
I'm still on team 25 life, hoping for a sweet spot in between the two extreames created by 20 and 30.
That would be very good, the problem is that people thought 20hp would bring out the aggro decks, but aggro decks never do play on big card pools like this (see legacy for example), the best aggro cards are just meh on eternal card pool, burn does, so only burn gets to be played on the aggressive side, burn pushes decks to play midrangish since you need to be aggressive also while controling your life points, and that is exactly the meta we have now. Combo can not race any Bruse/Zurgo simply because you are 100-of singleton, for me raising 5 LP would make a WHOLE lot difference, that together with Baral/Jace Bannings, because they get very strong with higher LP would be a totally different format, where Zurgo and Bruse would still be powerful, but probably other decks would be playable again.
Both combo and full control need that 5 LP when you are singleton 100-of, its not that combo and control needs to be in higher life points to work well, its that on commander I really think you need to put a cushion to balance the extra time to set up both combo decks and full control decks.
The discussion of 30HP vs 20HP doesn't take anywhere, I understand the power of blue and YES this approach does work and reduces blue's power, BUT I think almost if not, everyone here agrees Tasigur just breaks the whole "commander math" and is very powerful and would be banworthy even in DC 20HP, that Breya got banned on DC 20HP where blue takes a much smaller part of the meta and that Baral is a 300% improvement on the already strong on 30HP, but fair Polymorph Vendillion.
The thing is, these commanders are OP, I think blue CAN be nerfed a lot, so I agree with FearDReaper about that this can work, BUT I really think the broken commanders should go first, the blue commanders that are taking the meta today are all nerfed/banned on DC, so its not a fair fight saying they are dominating because of 30HP, they are dominating because Breya, Tasigur and the now banned Vial WOULD dominate DC 20HP as they already have done that, Baral is the only one that is fair on 20HP that isn't on 30HP, but thats more because Vendillion polymorph was basically unplayable on DC 20HP.
For me they should go first and THEN there should be an analysis on how to decrease the dominance if there is any still, they took the other way around, it can work, but it wouldn't be the route I would rather go.
Its actually 16 feldon's cane, maybe it gets a little higher with that. Thanks a lot FortyTwo for the input xD! I will try to finish this and make an estimation somehow.
I didn't get how Precursor golem effect is superior, but I will try to see a decklist with him that has been posted here. I mean, I guess with 4 of them for 4x triggers, I need to check how it works, thx!
Edit: I guess maybe Arcane Adaptation and swap mana crypt with black lotus to generate blue for it. Then swap the goblin ritual for Battle hymn, also putting your suggestions. I need to see how much damage the other decks got haha.
I have searched for a deck like this, since I didn't find it I have a nice suggestion, probably not the most damage possible, I'm not sure how to do the math also haha, but it is based on my little EDH commander xD.
Didn't finish the deck still, but the idea is simple, put zada on the battlefield, draw your deck, generate mana, pump the team and do it like over 60 times, this would go infinite with Elixir of Immortality, so I left that out.
How it goes, opening hand:
Zada, Hedron Grinder Mox Ruby Mana Crypt Seething Song Empty the Warrens Fists of Flame Brightstone Ritual
Start with:
Mox Ruby
Mana Crypt
Seething Song
Empty for 8 goblins
Ritual with the mana left for 8 red mana
Zada, Hedron Grinder
Target Zada with Fists of Flame, draw 9 cards
Use another ritual, Use some spells, Empty, another Fists of Flame, Platinum Angel to not lose to deck repeat to draw the whole deck, generate much more goblins, more mana, pump the team with Fists of Flame , which will give +53/0 for each creature in the first round, shuffle the whole gy back with a single Expedite in hand, draw the whole deck and give them haste, do it again and again... Fists start to give 100, 200, 300... for each creature
I think this can produce an absurd amount of damage, and non-infinite by the way, I hope someone finds this interesting also xD, Haze of Rage also makes absurd amounts of pump
A little guess here, I made an estimation that you would end up with something like 100k goblins, I think that s pretty close, the pumps are waaay harder to do it, because Haze would be cast like 100 times or more, and not all of them on the field until the last one. Its probably way over a billion damage already.
Unfinished still
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
1 Seething Song
4 Empty the Warrens
1 Platinum Angel
4 Brightstone Ritual
4 Fists of Flame
4 Feldon's Cane
4 Heat Shimmer
4 Cranial Archive
4 Thran Foundry
4 Perpetual Timepiece
4 Haze of Rage
1 Expedite
I disagree a bit here, there are decks that are powerful on 30HP and decks that are powerful on 20HP, This is clearly much more powerful on 20HP. The reason is what I said on the MTGO ban speculation thread, there are decks that do not care how many creatures you are putting into play, or whatever you are doing, as long as you are not disrupting enough or killing fast enough. The 10HP cushion is enough for a couple of decks to have a positive matchup against Markov, even more against Arahbo. Put this deck against Animar, Selvala, Nissa or Maelstrom Wanderer, such decks are hardly playable on 20HP or will be slower than Markov, Markov to be fast has too few interactions and therefore you need to ask the question for 30HP, how often can Markov kill on turn4/5? That is the turn for combo decks, and the reason why combo is not present on 20HP, Zurgo kills consitently on T4, so does Markov, but with 30HP how often does that happen if there is actually a hand that kills on T4 with 30hp.
I would actually say this will be a powerful deck on MTGO, but what will probably take the meta and are banwothy are Kess and Inalla, for how they fight the meta at 30hp.
Anyway all that said, I wouldn't worry too much if you are playing this deck on 30HP, but on DC it will probably get banned very soon, it fights the current meta with perfection, it does even better than Bruse. Bruse got banned because he putted C.A, life gaining and pressure all in the same deck, Markov does all that because Vampires have lifelink, creates token and pressures life points fast... He is a threat even bigger than Bruse was.
I think he takes over the meta at DC because there is no combo, so he is just too fast for the meta, also vampires, most of them have lifelink which breaks the back bone of Zurgo
Basically what I see is that lifelink prays on the aggressive decks, and the tokens pray on the slower blue decks and also aggro decks, I guess his biggest weakness on 30HP are the big mana combo decks, that pushing 1/1 lifelink every turn is not enough to race them
Anyway, I think both his lists would be much better than it is now, a little more aggressive on WoTC list, but still pretty nice. Also why is no one "unbanning" Griselbrand xD? He is very very fair on commander 1v1, he as a commander was always tier 2 or more (the reason they said he is banned) and in the 99 he was never that incredible because reanimator never actually went over about 5% of the meta, which is pretty low.
@fsecco: that list is... Leviathan without Vial xD, which I think makes a lot of sense because well, Leviathan had all the experience from DC and made the decisions on that which I think is working pretty nice. They only differences I would make is keeping Yisan banned, not for its power only, but its a type of deck that I don't think is that interactive/needed for the meta,
ban Baral instead of Emrakul, the strategy is still alive through Vendillion Clique, which is much less oppressive and very fair.
Banning High tide is more than enough for Jace, or ban Jace itself since Teferi is indeed strong, but I don't consider it as a pain Jace was.
That's what I think about the format, but anyway, I see anyone here basically that draws up a ban list will come with something better than the actual.
Both 20HP and 30HP can be balanced, the thing is, WoTC is ignoring everything done over DC/Leviathan/any other Commander format and taking their own decisions, we all know Tasigur, Breya and others... But they just closed their eyes for it so its taking much longer for the list to be tunned. DC is taking a path that I don't think they even have an idea at what they are doing, like banning Geist is ok, but when you unban Cataclysm, unban Balance and only later think Geist is a problem is really weird... Well if Geist could've be a problem why unban the 2 best wraths for Geist if not the 2 best cards from it?
DC for me lost all its respect, and I'm not talking about LP, its about a bunch of choices that I don't have a minimum idea where they are coming from, like banning both chromes to unban Fastbond and whatever... For who has physical decks its very hard to keep up with it, WoTC is taking a blind path that we all know it will lead to nowhere, banning cantrips thinking that is what makes Breya, Tasi, Baral strong... while those 3 where crippled or banned in all 1v1 commander formats, even at 20HP where blue is not as much of an issue.
Resuming, 1v1 commander can probably be balanced, but when all formats take such a strange path of banlist, choices and rules, its very very hard for that to happen any time soon.
Resuming, it deepends on how cutthroat your friends are on their decks, since its a non-combo environment Boros gets a little boost already, and the best tunned Aurelia as you want to build, can do pretty fine on the table, just don't expect for the deck to be the deck to beat, because it probably won't. It can compete, it will be strong enough for multiplayer, but it won't be the best.
Just a little about my opinion also on tabernacle... I think a lot of decks would be extremely fine playing against it, but if we think about a real world situation... Why should it actually needed be unbanned? So few people are going to have access for it, and it can be a crucial card on some decks to be considered fully tuned, I think this should also matter and not just power level. Today I think Candelabra is the most expensive card that is playable on high level in commander, and it is very specific for a single deck, high tide.
I take a lot of that when I think what should be unbanned, tabernacle can go in so many decks, different from legacy where only in Lands it actually fits well, here any control deck would be willing to use it, because it hits hard indeed in the creature heavy decks, I'm not a fan of giving restricted defensive powers for a couple of people who has more acquisitive ways to get it.
Its exactly the same thought I have for Bazaar of Baghdad, I have a Sidisi BUG deck, that would go EXTREMELY perfect for it, but I wouldn't like to see it unbanned, because even though it isn't nearly as broken as it is on Vintage, since we can't chain up dredge effects making zombies even close to what in vintage happens, it is a very very hard card to physically obtain and would be restricted to whoever has it.
I know price shouldn't come when you ban some card, but in the opposite direction the unban, it should be considered. If it gets unbanned and people use it, and also it isn't oppressive, then you will have a big problem to ban it "because of price tag". So I truly believe price should be considered before any unbans.
About Partner:
I'll disagree here who says partner mechanics is problematic, for me it isn't and I think we have enough data to show that. Vial is absurd, he is not made to 1v1 as you read the card it gives that away VERY VERY clearly, so he is just wrong. Bruse can be said as oppressive, but for me he was always a meta choice, he was just slightly more used than Zurgo (not all partner aggros had him), he had something like 16-17% in top8, Zurgo had 14%. He is a tier 1.5 deck when it comes to 30HP, and at 20HP he was the counterpart of Zurgo, which is why I said Zurgo will rocket lauch without him in the format. He simply could hold almost all agressive decks, which is why he became so popular,I don't think in DC or MTGO any other partner combination will go over 10%, unless some strange choice is made on the format for that to happen. And before all this, I had said Bruse would go up a lot in uses, because he just preys on most agressive decks while also being good against control since the partner mechanics is just so good against control decks, but Bruse was also good against aggressive decks... which brought out a deck that was good against the 2 main archetypes today on DC. I can't see any other partner doing both roles as I saw here, so I doubt any will take that much the meta, I do believe some combination will be tier 1, but at around 5-7% portion of the meta.
The problem is that Bruse kept Zurgo at a "low" 14%, now it will go to the 20% mark and that is very very predictable... probably some Karlov/lifegain and decks that can pray on Zurgo will be more playable, but I always hated the meta/anti-meta type of decks, it sufocates too many strategies.
Also Mind Twist? Really? what good does it bring to any meta? Also fastbond is stupid, having a possible turn 1 kill because of "luck" is not good for commander, we don't have a guaranteed daze/FoW to stop T1 kills. Moxes were banned because of fast mana and then you unban 2 fast mana through Ancient and Fastbond, WHAT?????
Sorry if you intend to ban Bruse, Zurgo NEEDS to go with it, Bruse is THE deck that kept Zurgo at "only" 14%, which is even higher then the banned Geist, also unbanning fast mana after banning fast mana doesn't make any sense...
I wanted an agressive approach for the banlist, but this looks just like wild guesses the same thing WoTC is doing, both of the formats should give hands together and disappear...
Geist only got to this point because of YOUR choices, why not just ban the cards that you had banned before? Cataclysm and Balance, so you unban those to ban Geist? non-sense...
Zurgo just got its two main enemies down, so lets play I don't know, Zurgo, some BW lifegain deck or Titania...
Commander
11/07/17
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-...
1
Breya, Etherium Shaper
Fluffypingo
2
Breya, Etherium Shaper
The_Sensei
3
Breya, Etherium Shaper
7720
4
Breya, Etherium Shaper
nprawdzik2
5
Breya, Etherium Shaper
2H_NMR
It got banned on DC for a reason right?...
That would be very good, the problem is that people thought 20hp would bring out the aggro decks, but aggro decks never do play on big card pools like this (see legacy for example), the best aggro cards are just meh on eternal card pool, burn does, so only burn gets to be played on the aggressive side, burn pushes decks to play midrangish since you need to be aggressive also while controling your life points, and that is exactly the meta we have now. Combo can not race any Bruse/Zurgo simply because you are 100-of singleton, for me raising 5 LP would make a WHOLE lot difference, that together with Baral/Jace Bannings, because they get very strong with higher LP would be a totally different format, where Zurgo and Bruse would still be powerful, but probably other decks would be playable again.
Both combo and full control need that 5 LP when you are singleton 100-of, its not that combo and control needs to be in higher life points to work well, its that on commander I really think you need to put a cushion to balance the extra time to set up both combo decks and full control decks.
The thing is, these commanders are OP, I think blue CAN be nerfed a lot, so I agree with FearDReaper about that this can work, BUT I really think the broken commanders should go first, the blue commanders that are taking the meta today are all nerfed/banned on DC, so its not a fair fight saying they are dominating because of 30HP, they are dominating because Breya, Tasigur and the now banned Vial WOULD dominate DC 20HP as they already have done that, Baral is the only one that is fair on 20HP that isn't on 30HP, but thats more because Vendillion polymorph was basically unplayable on DC 20HP.
For me they should go first and THEN there should be an analysis on how to decrease the dominance if there is any still, they took the other way around, it can work, but it wouldn't be the route I would rather go.