Nukotoys will be showing off their new Monsterology trading card game that interacts with the iPad...Richard Garfield and Peter Adtkinson were part of the creative process for the cards themselves...I've seen them and they are badass!
(Feel free to skip to the last two paragraphs for a summarization if you dont want to read the entire post.)
You are correct, that combined shipping is possible, but then again, as you brought up before, you need to exclude outlyers, which my post did, I removed the three lowest and three highest of the outlyers, regardless of shipping they still would have been the outlyers.
The vast majority of completed listings even had free shipping, so for those, the shipping wasnt even a factor in it, and no combined shipping can be had on listings with free shipping anyway.
You are correct that its possible, with additional effort, to be able to get them for cheaper, but the amount ending in your $5-$6 range, are the outlyers, not the norm for the completed listings for the items. But, then I ask this. Just because I can get a normally $30 card across the board, for $20 a time or two because of a couple of lucky auctions, does that make the card worth $20 or $30 when 18 out of 20 times the item sells for $30+, but 2 times it managed to be acquired for a good deal at $20 each?
If you had linvalas for trade (I dont care if you do, thats not the point), what would you value them at? Would you value them at $5-6, or would you value them (right now) at $9ish?
As you pointed out, I deal with things from a retail perspective. One where I am doing over $100,000 in singles sales per year at a local brick and mortar store (pricing things at the lowest end of ebay buy it nows or lower). Trading at 2/3rds value, I currently average about $150,000 in trading per year. I also buy cards at 1/2 value of what I sell them at, and do about $100,000 of buying accordingly per year at the shop as well. I also sell on ebay, and I currently have an over 11,000 100% positive feedback rating (zero negatives, 1 neutral ever), and when I am listing, I average about $2-3k in sales per week on there, I price things low to move quickly (low margin, high volume model). My customers love my setup, and Ive managed to canniballize most of the local trading in our area, because they like my trade policy of being willing to take just about anything, and having everything (nearly) at all times. I still encourage trading among themselves, it just so happens that most people prefer my setup for whatever reason. Now as far as trading outside of a retail setting, you are correct, its been years (6 years in fact) since Ive traded outside of that setting, so comparing completed trades on here or other online venues would in fact show that you have more experience there than I do.
In the end, I believe this discussion from your perspective comes from your point that it is POSSIBLE to get Linvala for as low as the prices you mentioned. Just as my point is that while its possible to get them for that cheap, most dont sell for that cheap, and given what the cards are available for from online stores (any of them), available via ebay buy it nows (even the lowest of them), and taking into account the average range of ebay completed listings, that the fair value of the card right now would seem to be around $9 (which I imagine most people who keep themselves up on current valuations of cards when doing trading, would probably value it at when trading with someone else (If they were trading their linvala for other stuff), someone else wanting to trade for a linvala might value it less, because they would probably still be using the old values, or hoping to get the card for the old values, then again this is common as well when a card suddenly begins to rise in value.
Thusly, your point is valid, that it is POSSIBLE to get the card for as cheap as you mentioned. Just as my point is valid that the average selling rate for the card is around $9 (even ignoring shipping). In the end we each are arguing different rather than the same points. People on here, yourself and myself included, each have our own unique perspectives on how to value cards. The key is to better understand where each person is coming from so that there isnt confusion with different users thinking they are arguing the same point, when in fact each is arguing seperate points about the same topic. Hopefully this clears everything up for everyone :).
I did skip to the last two paragraphs and I do agree with what you are saying as well. Two different points and two different modes of thinking. Thank you for seeing my POV and I appreciate you seeing mine.
The following are the completed listings (auction and buy it now) that actually sold (were bought by someone) over the last week (and yes, shipping and handling charges do matter as they do influence which listings people choose to bid on and how much they are willing to bid). If you want raw data and facts, then youll get raw data and facts. The numbers dont lie, interpretations may differ, but the numbers are the numbers:
Singles from most recent to a week ago:
$11.92 (free ship) $11.92 total
$4.20 ($3.00 shipping) $7.20 total
$11.75 (free ship) $11.75 total
$7.80 ($1.50 shipping) $9.30 total
$7.16 ($1.50 shipping) $8.66 total
$6.06 ($1.95 shipping) $8.01 total
$10.49 (free ship) $10.49 total
$10.99 (free ship) $10.99 total
$11.99 (free ship) $11.99 total
$10.99 (free ship) $10.99 total
Listings for 2x Linvala from most recent to a week ago:
$17.50 ($1.11 shipping) $18.61 total ($9.30 per card)
Listings for 3x Linvala from most recent to a week ago:
$18.67 (free ship) $18.67 total ($6.22 per card)
Listings for 4x Linvala from most recent to a week ago:
$39.99 (free ship) $39.99 total ($10 per card)
$39.99 (free ship) $39.99 total ($10 per card)
$30.00 ($2.50 shipping) $32.50 total ($8 per card)
$39.99 (free ship) $39.99 total ($10 per card)
$34.19 ($3.00 shipping) $37.19 total ($9.30 per card)
$30.00 (free ship) $30.00 total ($7.50 per card)
There is the data. Feel free to analyze the data as listed (from all completed listings that actually sold within the last week on ebay, looking at english non-foil copies of the cards) to eithor further your point of view, or to try to show that mine was incorrect in some way. And to clarify this data is everything that is currently listed in ebay completed listings as of 12:40am pacific time. The most recently listed price that ended with a winning bid was at 5:49 pm pacific time.
Im not trying to argue, Im simply trying to point out how and where I got my data from and possibly to understand better your point of view in regards to how you are determining what cards are going for and thusly their value.
For my own point of interpretation. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that we take and disregard the 3 lowest and 3 highest completed listings that actually sold:
This leaves us with a range of $8-$11 per card (shipped), with the vast majority being between $8-$10, giving a fair average value at around $9/card, which is just slightly below what the lowest buy it nows or online store prices and availability show as well.
The fun thing about auctions, is that if you have the time to commit to being able to keep track of the listings and be able to be at a computer to bid right when they are ending, you have the ability to win a listing for anywhere from normal price, to MUCH cheaper. The problem with those, is, you dont know how high the bidding would have gone if there was just one more bidder also trying to win it at the last minute, so while a listing may have ended cheaply, if say, I had tried to also bid on that listing, its hard to say where it would have ended up.
Anyhow, my interpretation aside, once again, the data list above is the actual data from the last week. If my interpretation is wrong, feel free to use the data to explain how, or simply feel free to explain your point of view using the data.
Again, we have determined numerous times on these forums that trying to factor in shipping costs is absolutely ridiculous. Why? Do you know how many of those buyers bought multiple items from the same seller? No. Do any of those seller combine shipping? Probably. Shipping costs are a set price put there by the seller, if it's a trade, there is no shipping cost, thus it doesn't factor in. I really don't understand why you continue to try and prove a point doesn't even factor in to my original statement that they can be had for $5-6. Based on your data that you seem to think I can't already see, I am correct. If you want to start nitpicking shipping costs, why don't you go contact all of those buyers and ask them if they combined shipping on any of those items or whatever. (Please don't btw, it's not really that important.)
Bottom line, I will probably never agree with your valuations on anything based on the simple fact that I really do know my values and I know how much I can get things for if I try...and I don't try that hard. I've been active on these boards and others for a while. I can see by your ref count that you are probably coming from a different place with your comments and might not have a true feel of a non-retail mtg environment. Hey, I could be wrong, maybe you have a thousand refs on pojo or something. If a few lazy people want to spend $100 to get a card RIGHT NOW or wait 5 days and bid to get it for $75 does that make the card's value $100? No. A classis example is buying here or on motl...people set values often based on average closed auction etc...(never is shipping costs factored in btw).
I understand that you are coming from a different point of view than I am, which is fine. But I think the both of us can agree to disagree.
Disclaimer: If Linvalas suddenly start closing at $20, please don't read this and start flaming.
Actually, the vast majority of completed listings over the last week (all but 2 or 3) have ended at about $8-$10 per card for multiples, or $10+ for singles. Just because 2-3 ended more cheaply, when the other 10-15 ended at the higher number is an indication that the correct current average value for the card is in fact in the $8-$12 range. There are no online stores that have NM copies available for cheaper than that, there are no buy it nows on ebay that are available for cheaper than that, and the vast majority of completed listings (auctions or buy it nows) have ended in that range over the last week (when a card goes up, data older than that no longer matters, and outlier numbers on both the low and high end being discarded, we get the above mentioned range.
Just some things to keep in mind. And keep in mind also that my data is coming from english, NM, listings available within the US. Anyone living outside the US is likely able to see listings that I am not, the same that I am able to see listings they may not.
With all due respect Jeff, I just don't think we ever see eye to eye on card values. I take out outliers such as one that recently closed for 11+ and one that just closed for 4+. The vast majority of Linvalas have closed below your 8-12 range. On top of that, it seems that there has not been ONE that has closed at that $12 mark...since, well, ever. Yes, the card is on an upward trend and might even hit $12 at some point...but she ain't there yet.
My main point is exactly what I said that they can be had for the $5-6 range if your find a good auction. I mean hey, I even had Linvalas on my sale thread on motl for 5 days at $6 each and 0 sold.
Ok, so that was the cheapest $$$/Linvala listing on eBay in the entire month of July...from a seller with 0 feedback. Not necessarily representative of her overall price. She's closer to ~$9-10 at the moment.
The lowest was 2 days ago at $4.20.
This isn't my opinion of value or anything like that. These are just facts.
I remember when $3-$5 was a few bucks...when did $12 become a few bucks?
$12?
Are you crazy?
They still can be had for under $5-6 a piece on ebay. Heck, one just closed a few minutes ago at 3/$18...and I actually bid it up at the last moment hoping to get some at $4.75 a piece.
It's a 1-2 of in some Maverick sideboard builds, but it's used a ton in EDH. So multiple format use and, well, it's an angel. It's still only a few bucks...
Crypt Ghast is really, really good.
1. Crypt Ghast <--sooooo good with Extort
2. Smite
3. One Thousand Lashes
www.nukotoys.com/monsterology
www.facebook.com/nukotoys
It depends on what day. We meet casually for EDH in Thursday nights in the City and can meet up on the weekends for Legacy...but also in SF
I did skip to the last two paragraphs and I do agree with what you are saying as well. Two different points and two different modes of thinking. Thank you for seeing my POV and I appreciate you seeing mine.
Again, we have determined numerous times on these forums that trying to factor in shipping costs is absolutely ridiculous. Why? Do you know how many of those buyers bought multiple items from the same seller? No. Do any of those seller combine shipping? Probably. Shipping costs are a set price put there by the seller, if it's a trade, there is no shipping cost, thus it doesn't factor in. I really don't understand why you continue to try and prove a point doesn't even factor in to my original statement that they can be had for $5-6. Based on your data that you seem to think I can't already see, I am correct. If you want to start nitpicking shipping costs, why don't you go contact all of those buyers and ask them if they combined shipping on any of those items or whatever. (Please don't btw, it's not really that important.)
Bottom line, I will probably never agree with your valuations on anything based on the simple fact that I really do know my values and I know how much I can get things for if I try...and I don't try that hard. I've been active on these boards and others for a while. I can see by your ref count that you are probably coming from a different place with your comments and might not have a true feel of a non-retail mtg environment. Hey, I could be wrong, maybe you have a thousand refs on pojo or something. If a few lazy people want to spend $100 to get a card RIGHT NOW or wait 5 days and bid to get it for $75 does that make the card's value $100? No. A classis example is buying here or on motl...people set values often based on average closed auction etc...(never is shipping costs factored in btw).
I understand that you are coming from a different point of view than I am, which is fine. But I think the both of us can agree to disagree.
Disclaimer: If Linvalas suddenly start closing at $20, please don't read this and start flaming.
With all due respect Jeff, I just don't think we ever see eye to eye on card values. I take out outliers such as one that recently closed for 11+ and one that just closed for 4+. The vast majority of Linvalas have closed below your 8-12 range. On top of that, it seems that there has not been ONE that has closed at that $12 mark...since, well, ever. Yes, the card is on an upward trend and might even hit $12 at some point...but she ain't there yet.
My main point is exactly what I said that they can be had for the $5-6 range if your find a good auction. I mean hey, I even had Linvalas on my sale thread on motl for 5 days at $6 each and 0 sold.
The lowest was 2 days ago at $4.20.
This isn't my opinion of value or anything like that. These are just facts.
$12?
Are you crazy?
They still can be had for under $5-6 a piece on ebay. Heck, one just closed a few minutes ago at 3/$18...and I actually bid it up at the last moment hoping to get some at $4.75 a piece.
So yeah, a few bucks.
The Foil fetches are nearly all NM and the FBBs range from SP-NM.
I've been a member here for a while and it looks like it might be time to hang it up :/.
I'm putting together funds for a home. I need to sell these within the month. What is the best way? Is it better to break it up or sell it as a whole?
Thanks and I appreciate your time.
4x Badlands (1 FBB German, 3 FBB Italian)
4x Bayou (4 FBB Italian)
4x Plateau (1 FBB French, 2 FBB German, 1 FBB Italian)
4x Scrubland (1 FBB French, 3 FBB Italian)
4x Savannah (1 FBB German, 1 FBB French, 2 FBB Italian)
4x Taiga (2 FBB French, 2 FBB German signed)
4x Tropical Island (2 FBB German, 1 FBB French, 1 FBB Italian)
4x Tundra (2 FBB French, 2 FBB Italian)
4x Underground Sea (1 FBB French, 1 FBB Italian, 2 FBB German signed)
4x Volcanic Island (3 FBB French, 1 FBB German)
4x Polluted Delta (4 FOIL Ons)
4x Flooded Strand (2 FOIL English Ons, 1 FOIL Portuguese, 1 FOIL French)
4x Wooded Foothills (4 FOIL signed Ons)
4x Bloodstained Mire (4 FOIL signed Ons)
4x Windswept Heath (4 FOIL Ons)
4x Misty Rainforest (1 FOIL Eng, 2 FOIL Italian, 1 FOIL Spanish)
4x Marsh Flats (4 FOIL)
4x Verdant Catacombs (4 FOIL)
4x Scalding Tarn (1 FOIL Eng, 1 FOIL French, 2 FOIL Italian)
4x Arid Mesa (4 FOIL)
That's because you're looking at BIN prices...
You need to bid to get better prices dude.
Full-art Avengers are a different market completely. They will continue to slowly rise over time.
To the thread title...both cards will plummet. See Troll Ascetic, Nantuko Shade, Grim Lavamancer, Pithing Needle, etc...