So I have a Keranos deck I built within the last year. I just retooled it a little but I am stuck on 103 cards.
I am hoping to get your feedback as to what three cards are the most expendable from where you stand. I need to cut three more cards and am at an unusually hard impasse as to what those three cards should be. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
So most Keranos decks that I've seen are built like an izzet version of Talrand, just slinging tons of instants and sorceries. I was always a little puzzled by this because there are no bonuses to slinging spells like Talrand has with giving you tons of free 2/2 flyers. Yes, UR seems like it should be spell slinger. What Keranos always seemed like to me was a value generator with lots of abilities and features designed to abuse.
So I got a few ideas about how to just take advantage of everything Keranos offers bit-by-bit and decided to build this deck...
(1) Indestructible: Keranos has built in protection. I play in a token-heavy meta, so how about running tons of sweepers? Devastation, Jokulhaups, Obliterate, Cyclonic Rift, Blaspehmous Act, and company all help. Chandra's Ignition is almost perfectly designed for this deck. Chandra's Ignition is always a minimum of 6 damage to all creatures and all of my opponents. Considering, many of my creatures are indestructible, it starts to leave favorable board states. But Chandra's Ignition is mostly intended to be run with damage doublers on the table as a surprise wincon to my opponents to deal a lethal damage from out of nowhere. Thassa and both Ulamogs make the sweepers I run more relevant. Wiping the board and then seeing only your Keranos and Ulamog as the only creatures on the battlefield is satisfying.
(2) Devotion: Run lots of blue and red enchantments designed to slow the game down. The primary enchantments this deck looks for are the damage doublers...Repercussion, Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and Gratuitous Violence make Keranos' lightning bolts MUCH more threatening. Propaganda against token decks. Smoke slows any deck with an appreciable amount of creatures. Dismiss into Dream turns Keranos into a machine gun on my opponents' creatures. Burning Sands makes my creature removal doubly potent by taking away lands from opponents.
Once devotion is triggered, I can also put death touch enablers like Basilisk Collar, Quietus Spike, Gorgon's Head, and Gorgon's Flail onto Keranos to continue to make him more and more threatening.
(3) Reveal the first card you draw: Strionic Resonator, Thought Reflection, and Alhammarret's Archive all help draw double cards. Strionic Resonator also can deal double damage. But along with the damage doublers and the cantrip doublers start to turn Keranos into a singularly threatening entity on the board. Given his built in protection, the urgency to remove him somehow...someway...only increases as the game goes on. I also sought to put in all of the topdeck manipulation that I could so I could control what cards I see at the beginning of every turn. Sensei's Divining Top, Thassa, Crystal Ball, Scroll Rack, Jace, Saheeli, Temple of Epiphany, Serum Visions, Opt, and Dissolve all help me control my first card for maximum benefit.
There is a playset of counterspells in the deck designed to mainly protect my big spells and stop my opponents' most important spells. But this is not a deck that seeks to counter everything and turn a multiplayer commander game into solitaire.
I am currently three cards over the 100 limit. I am hoping to get feedback as to what are the three cards you think I should look at cutting most? Thanks!
My only problem with Aether Vial is that Rebels are basically Aether Vials in the sense that they play other rebels in a way that can't be countered. It seems too redundant, and maybe I'm wrong. I do agree with you Flavius that Force of Will may not have enough blue pitch cards...
As far as what both of you said about Gaea's Cradle and Training Grounds, Legacy Rebels have always had two big problems being competitive.
(1) They were never powerful enough and had no good win conditions. That changed when Mirror Entity came out giving a tutorable power buff for the entire Rebel army.
(2) Rebels are so mana hungry that they were always too slow to consistently compete in Legacy. Gaea's Cradle is cute, but it basically helps function as tutorable mana every turn and then swing for the fences with Mirror Entity. Without some sort of meaningful mana ramp, Rebels are simply too slow to compete. Gaea's Cradle seems like an absolute essential in this deck. I don't know how the deck competes without it. With regards to Training Grounds, I can see how basically after two copies of it on the board, it doesn't improve tutoring for other rebels because it can't reduce recruiting costs lower than 1. So two copies of Training Grounds can only cut the Falcon to 1 to recruit the next Rebel. But it does allow for even more powerful Mirror Entity power buffs, whether it is to play offense or defense.
My question for WeaponX, is what do you suggest the build look like without Training Grounds...Mono-W, still a U/W build, or something else? And what kind of cards would you take out and put in? Is there a better ramp card that I'm missing or do you have a concept you could show me that doesn't have TG? (I ask in all sincerity and not in any sort of confrontational manner)
So I've played a lot of different decks through the years, UR Delver being my current competitive deck. In the past, I played UW Landstill. But, I'm sure most everyone has a pet deck that they've had a thing for but it was never exactly Tier 1 level competitive. I am no different. I have a UW Trained Rebel deck that I really love. However, I play in a limited meta. (not a ton of guys at my FNM play legacy, they all just basically play EDH, Standard, and Modern)
Regardless, I want some feedback as to just how competitive all of you think this deck can be.
The deck revolves around Lin Sivvi, Defiant HeroMirror EntityRamosian SergeantDefiant FalconGaea's Cradle and Training Grounds, while using a robust counter set and draw engine. Basically, I'm looking for (1) general impressions of the deck and (2) how competitive it can be in legacy...I don't expect it to be a Tier 1 amazing legacy deck, but if it can be reasonably competitive, I'd be happy. Also, any obvious suggestions for improvement are always welcome, too. Thanks!
I am hoping to get your feedback as to what three cards are the most expendable from where you stand. I need to cut three more cards and am at an unusually hard impasse as to what those three cards should be. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
lands (39)
1x Arcane Lighthouse
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Command Tower
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Flooded Strand
1x Great Furnace
1x Grixis Panorama
12x Island
9x Mountain
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Shivan Reef
1x Spirebluff Canal
1x Steam Vents
1x Strip Mine
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Temple of Epiphany
1x Temple of the False God
1x Terrain Generator
enchantments (11)
1x Burning Sands
1x Dictate of the Twin Gods
1x Dismiss into Dream
1x Fevered Visions
1x Furnace of Rath
1x Gratuitous Violence
1x Propaganda
1x Repercussion
1x Rhystic Study
1x Smoke
1x Thought Reflection
1x Alhammarret's Archive
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Crystal Ball
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Gorgon Flail
1x Gorgon's Head
1x Izzet Keyrune
1x Izzet Signet
1x Quietus Spike
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Strionic Resonator
1x Thought Vessel
1x Thran Dynamo
sorcery (11)
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Chandra's Ignition
1x Day's Undoing
1x Devastation
1x Fabricate
1x Jokulhaups
1x Obliterate
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Serum Visions
1x Vandalblast
1x Arcane Denial
1x Brainstorm
1x Capsize
1x Chaos Warp
1x Counterspell
1x Cryptic Command
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Disallow
1x Dissolve
1x Mystic Confluence
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Negate
1x Opt
creature (7)
1x Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
1x Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Thassa, God of the Sea
1x Trinket Mage
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
planeswalker (2)
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1x Saheeli Rai
So most Keranos decks that I've seen are built like an izzet version of Talrand, just slinging tons of instants and sorceries. I was always a little puzzled by this because there are no bonuses to slinging spells like Talrand has with giving you tons of free 2/2 flyers. Yes, UR seems like it should be spell slinger. What Keranos always seemed like to me was a value generator with lots of abilities and features designed to abuse.
So I got a few ideas about how to just take advantage of everything Keranos offers bit-by-bit and decided to build this deck...
(1) Indestructible: Keranos has built in protection. I play in a token-heavy meta, so how about running tons of sweepers? Devastation, Jokulhaups, Obliterate, Cyclonic Rift, Blaspehmous Act, and company all help. Chandra's Ignition is almost perfectly designed for this deck. Chandra's Ignition is always a minimum of 6 damage to all creatures and all of my opponents. Considering, many of my creatures are indestructible, it starts to leave favorable board states. But Chandra's Ignition is mostly intended to be run with damage doublers on the table as a surprise wincon to my opponents to deal a lethal damage from out of nowhere. Thassa and both Ulamogs make the sweepers I run more relevant. Wiping the board and then seeing only your Keranos and Ulamog as the only creatures on the battlefield is satisfying.
(2) Devotion: Run lots of blue and red enchantments designed to slow the game down. The primary enchantments this deck looks for are the damage doublers...Repercussion, Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and Gratuitous Violence make Keranos' lightning bolts MUCH more threatening. Propaganda against token decks. Smoke slows any deck with an appreciable amount of creatures. Dismiss into Dream turns Keranos into a machine gun on my opponents' creatures. Burning Sands makes my creature removal doubly potent by taking away lands from opponents.
Once devotion is triggered, I can also put death touch enablers like Basilisk Collar, Quietus Spike, Gorgon's Head, and Gorgon's Flail onto Keranos to continue to make him more and more threatening.
(3) Reveal the first card you draw: Strionic Resonator, Thought Reflection, and Alhammarret's Archive all help draw double cards. Strionic Resonator also can deal double damage. But along with the damage doublers and the cantrip doublers start to turn Keranos into a singularly threatening entity on the board. Given his built in protection, the urgency to remove him somehow...someway...only increases as the game goes on. I also sought to put in all of the topdeck manipulation that I could so I could control what cards I see at the beginning of every turn. Sensei's Divining Top, Thassa, Crystal Ball, Scroll Rack, Jace, Saheeli, Temple of Epiphany, Serum Visions, Opt, and Dissolve all help me control my first card for maximum benefit.
There is a playset of counterspells in the deck designed to mainly protect my big spells and stop my opponents' most important spells. But this is not a deck that seeks to counter everything and turn a multiplayer commander game into solitaire.
I am currently three cards over the 100 limit. I am hoping to get feedback as to what are the three cards you think I should look at cutting most? Thanks!
As far as what both of you said about Gaea's Cradle and Training Grounds, Legacy Rebels have always had two big problems being competitive.
(1) They were never powerful enough and had no good win conditions. That changed when Mirror Entity came out giving a tutorable power buff for the entire Rebel army.
(2) Rebels are so mana hungry that they were always too slow to consistently compete in Legacy. Gaea's Cradle is cute, but it basically helps function as tutorable mana every turn and then swing for the fences with Mirror Entity. Without some sort of meaningful mana ramp, Rebels are simply too slow to compete. Gaea's Cradle seems like an absolute essential in this deck. I don't know how the deck competes without it. With regards to Training Grounds, I can see how basically after two copies of it on the board, it doesn't improve tutoring for other rebels because it can't reduce recruiting costs lower than 1. So two copies of Training Grounds can only cut the Falcon to 1 to recruit the next Rebel. But it does allow for even more powerful Mirror Entity power buffs, whether it is to play offense or defense.
My question for WeaponX, is what do you suggest the build look like without Training Grounds...Mono-W, still a U/W build, or something else? And what kind of cards would you take out and put in? Is there a better ramp card that I'm missing or do you have a concept you could show me that doesn't have TG? (I ask in all sincerity and not in any sort of confrontational manner)
Thanks!
Regardless, I want some feedback as to just how competitive all of you think this deck can be.
4x Ramosian Sergeant
2x Children of Korlis
4x Defiant Falcon
1x Ramosian Lieutenant
2x Whipcorder
2x Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
2x Mirror Entity
1x Defiant Vanguard
4x Training Grounds
4x Force of Will
2x Counterspell
4x Brainstorm
2x Ponder
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Gaea's Cradle
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Flooded Strand
6x Plains
4x Island
The deck revolves around Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Mirror Entity Ramosian Sergeant Defiant Falcon Gaea's Cradle and Training Grounds, while using a robust counter set and draw engine. Basically, I'm looking for (1) general impressions of the deck and (2) how competitive it can be in legacy...I don't expect it to be a Tier 1 amazing legacy deck, but if it can be reasonably competitive, I'd be happy. Also, any obvious suggestions for improvement are always welcome, too. Thanks!