We have updated our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
Dismiss
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Next
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Remember when we had to jump through hoops to get a zombie on the battlefield? Yeah, now there's Enbalm: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/so-much-amonkhet-news-2017-03-27
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on [Primer] Assault Loam
    Yesterday's testing was... interesting. We were all pretty exhausted, having been to a party till 8 in the morning the night prior. The result was most of us playing aggro decks that required as little thinking as possible. Let's just say it wasn't the greatest of matchups for my list. What I did take away from that evening, though, was that splashing black for efficient removal was a pretty dumb idea. I'll heed mykatdied's (great username, btw) advice and lean on gruul-coloured removal instead. I hate Bolt against Shadow and Goyf, but I found Assault takes care of those pretty neatly anyway. I'm also considering running Crawling Sensation main. It's another lategame wincon and might help me get there in the first place in this stupidly aggressive meta.
    All in all, I was surprised how well the deck operated, despite consistently being one turn short of winning (I think that's a Scapeshift problem). A few adjustments might buy me that time.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on [Primer] Assault Loam
    Thanks a lot for the feedback. The things this deck loses to most are early beats and hardcounter. Raven's Crime, being a pet card of mine, was an experiment that didn't work out too terribly well. Having bb as early as t3 is quite easy, but still much too cute. I love the Raven's Loam value machine, but, as you said, reaching that bbb sweetspot is crucial. Playing things like Urborg also isn't an option, since I need as many mountains as possible for Valakut. I'll move Crime to the sideboard against Tron and control.
    As far as removal is concerned, I'll try running a 3/2 split of Push and Decay. I noticed I basically never discard my fetches if able, since they don't help my mountain count when returning my gy off Reclamation. I also don't like having to pay like 5 life to fetch my entire board in case I have a follow up Emrakul. As it stands now, I'll replace the Crimes with Pushes and cut a Loam and a land for two Decays. 5 hard removal spells and 4 Assaults seems decent mb. Decay also helps against mb gravehate like Relic in Tron. Being an experienced Dredgevine player I can assure you that's a relevant interaction Wink

    I hope Sunday's testing will go well. Looks like I'll be facing Knightfall, Blue Moon, and Naya Zoo. Maybe also Skred Red.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on [Primer] Assault Loam
    Hi all (and hi Mazereon. Funny how I stumble upon you in every primer I visit. How do you do that with only 150 posts?),

    I've been brewing with a list that strays a little from the beaten path, introducing multiple wincons, and omitting mediocre cards like Molten Vortex. My number one priority for most Modern decks is to have different angles of attack, forcing your opponent to sideboard awkwardly and being able to always threaten a potential kill. The land count is a little more aggressive than that of most other lists I've seen, but I also cantrip much more and need more lands in the grave. I should also note that in my list Assault acts more as repeatable removal to survive against the super aggressive current meta (Zoo, Burn, Infect, Affinity, Shadow, ...) and only secondarily as another lategame wincon. Playing with this deck has been a blast, especially since it's much more complicated to pilot than expected. As always, I'm eager to get constructive criticism and would be delighted to see this thread get a little more active again Smile Here's the list:



    In case you're wondering, I chose this Emrakul since I needed a wincon that could not only be cast after Reclamation, but would also provide immediate benefits, even if it got removed or countered, while also not shuffling my library back in should I accidentally dredge it away with Loam. I considered OG Emrakul, but at 15 cmc she's simply not castable. 11 for this version, on the other hand, is pretty much exactly the number of lands I have in play after resolving Reclamation. At the same time, she doesn't die to the most common removal in the format (Push, Path, Decay, Terminate, Dismember, etc.) and is great against decks running counterspells, since it's usually horrendous for them to have their turn controlled (firing off Sphinx's Rev for 0, using removal on their manlands, drawing and discarding their best/non-land spells to hand size, etc.).
    So far, I have won most games with a t5 Scapeshift after Reclamation on t4. I'll do some testing during the weekend and get back to you with the results.

    Take care.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Since no one reacted to my post about Aftermath (here's the spoiler, in case anyone missed it: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/amonkhet/28554-dusk), let me do a quick write up on why this mechanic is amazing for us, despite being the ugliest piece of cardboard I've seen in a long time:


    Gravecrawler has always been a highly mediocre card that I've been running rather begrudgingly. It requires setup, has a mediocre body, is terrible on defence, makes me play jank like Haunted Dead, and costs 2 black to trigger Vengevine, a fact that has been consistently screwing me over ever since our mana base has become more red-centric. Aftermath not only promises Gravecrawler 5 - 8 (a number which is too high in my opinion, considering most of the time my problem isn't recurring my Vines, but getting enough of them into the graveyard), but could actually provide us a card that replaces Gravecrawler, making it more like a 1- or 2-of. That in turn means I can cut both of my Haunted Deads and play more interaction.

    What we realistically could expect is something like this:
    Frontside: creature - 3 or 4 mana, 2/2, when this enters the battlefield each player sacs a creature.
    Aftermath: 1 mana, no effect, 1/1

    Aftermath has to be a follow-up on the card's frontside, so a card that acts as removal, but also dies in the process is a great example. Once it's in the grave, you can play it as an overpriced recursive threat.

    I'm really excited what WoTC will do with this mechanic and am fairly confident we can expect a few new things to play around with. A 1cmc Aftermath creature might be asking a tad too much, though...
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    How do you feel about cutting the Neonates and the Allure for hand disruption? One of the strongest plays any midrange deck can have is t1 Thoughtseize and since you don't do that much on t1 anyway (you will virtually never cast Neonate before t2), adding 6 or 7 seven 1cmc discard spells seems really strong. I also like Grisly Salvage infinitely more than Gather. I remember keeping both Lightning Axe and Grisly Salvage up on t2 in my preo-SoI list. It freaks your opponent out and postboard often makes them play around removal when actually you're just keeping back your Salvage.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Aftermath gets me really excited. You know what that ability means for us, guys? We're gonna get dozens of new creatures to cast (!!!) from the gy.

    Also, congratulation on the 3-1, Nutzbox. The list looks very resilient, although I still don't think it's a good idea to only have 4 dredgers. You seem to have gotten quite lucky to have a Stinkweed in your opener that often...
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Btw, is anyone still fooling around with the Varolz-Death's Shadow version? A friend of mine played a brew yesterday and although it was far from streamlined, that thing looked strooonk. Midrange Golgari has gotten loads of great additions in the past months (Grim Flayer, Push, ...) and might be worth another shot. It' also a great time to buy Goyfs, just saying.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Testing went very poorly yesterday. I kept whiffing on dredges and drew into too many lands. During my first 3 matches (all of which I lost 1-2) I had to mulligan down to 6, keeping slow and monodirectional hands. I missed Grave-Troll quite a bit, but only because my dredges were so bad in the first place. I think I just was very unlucky and don't think I should read too much into those games. Not having played in over a month, I also made terrible mistakes in most of my matches. To sum everything up: I wasted my time testing and your time making you read this. I hope I get better results next time. Upcoming test matches include Infect, Blue Moon, Knightfall, Naya Burn, Naya Zoo, and some Death's Shadow variants.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Wow, thanks for the heads up! Great so see a list get somewhere. I also missed Travis' videos. Here are the links for anyone who wants to check them out:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75zRS6ff64k&

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVTP1g69H70

    Cutting down on Reunions is something worth talking about. I still find the card immensely powerful, even if only cast as a discard outlet that cycles (although I often still get in some decent dredges with it). I might consider going down to 2 in order to make the list more versatile. I could cut another Haunted Dead, going down to 1, and instead try running 2 Conflagrates again. I'll do some testing tomorrow night with some friends who are going to the Mkm series with me. We've already started preparing, running some gauntlets and figuring out matchups. We have access to pretty much all the tier 1 and 2 decks, so I'll write up some testing results while we're at it.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    As I mentioned before, I didn't really have problems shifting from dredge 6 and 5 cards to dredge 5 and 4. Yes, the deck is less explosive, but it's still really fast. Recurring Vengevines hasn't been my focus with this deck for months. Most of my games I win with Bloodghasts, Amalgams, and LolTrolls. Gravecrawlers help push through damage and Vengevines usually end the game when they're triggered, but I don't focus on them as much, anymore.

    The list, I believe, hasn't had any finishes in the last years because traditional Dredge took over and got all the attention. Before that, Tron was extremely popular for a long time and a matchup we simply couldn't win with the pre-SoI list. I also don't think the deck was very good back then. Lastly, Eldrazi Winter took care of the rest and made it impossible to play anything else for a while. And certainly not Dredgevine.

    I hope I will at least make day 2 in September, so we finally get another tournament report for this thread, but we'll se about that. I, for my part, still like the current list and am convinced it's the most versatile and potent iterration of the Vengevine decks.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    To be honest, I don't think this list is streamlined enough. 4 dredgers is either too few or too many and cards like Insolent Neonate are plain bad if you don't discard dredgers with it. If you want to abandon the graveyard approach, I recommend taking a look at the Super Vengevine primer, found here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/767281-rg-super-vengevine

    If you want to keep this list, try cutting the Imps and Neonates for more enablers (Satyr Wayfinder, Sinister Concoction, Conflagrate, etc.). I'd also consider Prized Amalgams.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from creamy99 »
    I'm honestly surprised 2 is a good count. For me, cards which are dead in the yard were always either a one-of or a playset because it's so bad to dredge them away.
    I want to up the count to 4. I haven't had enough time to test specifics, but I need to find something to cut.


    Any changes yet?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    I'm honestly surprised 2 is a good count. For me, cards which are dead in the yard were always either a one-of or a playset because it's so bad to dredge them away.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from nutzbox »
    does anyone feel the all-in dredge (6 or more dredger) approach for dredgevine to be more inconsistent nowadays? i keep getting bad hands and mulligans are also terrible, the deck really feels clunky.


    I honestly haven't experienced any consistency issues thus far. I have, however, noticed that it has gotten slower. Still, I'd trade speed for less grave hate anytime and am confident the deck hasn't gotten worse, but maybe even better.

    Btw, people have to realise Dredgevine takes a completely different approach than "normal" Dredge and I don't understand comments saying it's just a clunkier version of it. The pros and cons have been discussed before and I won't get into that now, but I will say this: Dredgevine is incredibly complex to operate (it took me multiple months of playing before even spotting subtle, but important decisions I had previously not noticed that tremendously increased consitency) and maybe those people have picked up the deck and didn't get it to work. That's certainly how I felt the first few weeks (though admittedly, that was long before Shadows).
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Very true. If you can't win with a bunch of angry vegetables, a giant squid won't help you either. That's Modern 101.
    On a more serious note: Have the people still running two Haunted Dead ever considering swapping one out for a Rampager? I don't know what I like more, the nice end-of-declare-attackers flying blocker from Haunted Dead or the chance of great openers with a one-of elephant. Creamy, didn't you mention you might try Greenbelt a while back?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on [AER] Aggroffinity! (Improvise, Aggro)
    Hey, nice take on the deck. A few things I've noticed:
    I'm not sure Fireweaver is efficient enough to act as a reliable wincon, especially with your rather low artifact/Cheeri0 count.
    Why no Bastion Inventor? Basically nothing in the current meta kills that card. Inventor's Goggles helps that, too.
    Although I like Paradoxial Outcome in this deck, 4 mana is a lot. I'm also not huge on MomHug (Reunion). Why not just run Reverse Engineer? I've been really impressed with that card, even in Modern. It's so much stronger than Thoughtcast.

    Hope this helps!
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Glad to be of help Wink
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on [AER] Aggroffinity! (Improvise, Aggro)
    Hi guys,
    Ive fallen in love with the concept of this deck and I really think it's a great brew that might turn out to be competitive. Here's my take on it:



    I'm aware the land count is aggressive, but this deck has an average mana cost (considering Improvise reductions) of around 2 to 3 and Renegade Map often is just a better land because it enables Revolt, taps for mana, and makes Choked Estuary playable. The deck needs to draw into action and enablers simultaneously and more than two lands will often make an opener unkeepable. Additionally, mulligans really hurt this deck, since I always find myself being one card short of the absolute nut draw (t2 5/6 Bastion Inventor being the most common case). I also like the midrange approach this version can take, utilising Tezzeret's multifunctionality and the ability to draw into a barrage of undercosted beaters with Engineer. I put together loads of grixis-coloured drafts, but found the payback compared to the immense strain on the mana base lacking (reasons to go grixis include: Unlicensed Disintegration, Maverick Thopterist, Enraged Giant, Sweatworks Brawler...). I also played around with Sly Requisitioner as a cheap 3/4 with upside, but found it lacklustre. Barricade Breaker was great in some cases, but the lack of evasion (I'm not a big fan Key to the City, because it's too mana-intensive and I don't have things to discard. Might be good with Scrap Trawler and Scrapheap Scrounger) and the fact that it gets wrecked by sorcery speed removal make it terrible. Bomat Courier and Hope of Ghirapur didn't fit my list, because I need untapped enablers, but I like their effects in general and can see them being useful in other lists (Ongoing Investigation comes to mind). Lastly, it might be worth looking into a boros equipment list running Inventor's Apprentice, Toolcraft Exemplar, Weapons Trainer, Stoneforge Masterwork, Captain's Claws, Stone Haven Outfitter, Sram Senior Edificer, Sweatworks Brawler, Bone Saw, Inventor's Goggles, Heart of Kiran, Enraged Giant, and things like Cogworker's Puzzleknot.

    I love how many sweet interactions/variants this deck offers and I'm sure we'll discover some hidden gems if we keep brewing Smile
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    I really dislike Salvage effects in a dredge list and Gather the Pack is definitely not better than Grisly Salvage in my opinion. I also don't understand how this deck lacked t2 plays, since LolTroll, Reunion, or even two 1 cmc creatures are often great lines of play in my experience. Even if you don't dredge with Momhug (wich doesn't happen too terribly often with 7 dredgers total), discarding action and drawing 3 cards is still great, especially postboard. I can understand wanting to move Trolls to the sideboard, but they're too multifunctional for me to ever consider going below 4. Vengevine and Bloodghast are the kind of cards you either play a playset of or none at all. Especially Ghast, which just triggers passively without much of a setup, gets significantly worse in lower numbers. I'd rather think about cutting a Haunted Dead. Those are great as one-offs and I've considered cutting one myself.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    I'd accept that it's a midrange approach rather than a combo approach. Satyr and Greenbelt do not recurr from the graveyard and Amalgam is very specific.
    I agree to Satyr and Amalgam not being good in your list. Greenbelt on the other hand seems really decent, especially because you're taking less of a combo approach and have more control over what gets into your graveyard.

    I feel that Dredgevine's power comes from its Delve creatures.
    We don't even run Delve anymore...

    I find it important to experiment and to consider new approaches that are brought forward here, but I think we have come to a point here at which we're losing focus and have strayed away from the path. I'm no mod, but the way your list is shaping up I feel it rather belongs in the RG Super Vengevine thread. As I said before, I like your approach and I especially like the idea behind Super Vengevine, but we have to keep in mind which impression new people who come to this thread get when they read through the last couple of pages; and right now it's not really representative of Dredgevine.
    I don't want to snub anybody, so I won't say anymore about this for now. I'm eager to find out how other members feel about this whole thing.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    I agree. This list basically trades explosiveness for value and resilience, so I like Jack-of-all-trades cards like Concoction better. The interaction with Commune is neat, too, and I encourage you to try it out. Angler definitely is better than Tasigur in all our lists, as well. Tasigur's ability is not really important, imo.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Oh, one more thing: how many of you keep Thoughseizes in the side? I run two and am considering swapping them out for Inquisitions. Opinions?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Hi Dragon, hi Soracak,

    thanks for the comments. I feel Soracak has already summarised some of the key differences between the approaches perfectly and just want to add that we're also favoured in most post-board matchups. Dredge is insanely fast and certainly more consistent than we are, but cards like LolTroll are, as I've stated a couple days back, surprisingly strong in Modern. The recent surge of Fatal Push certainly helps that, too.

    Btw, it currently looks like I'll be taking Dredgevine to the Mkm-series in Hamburg this fall. It's a big tournament with a 5-digit main prize and I'm excited to finally give this badboy a spin on a bigger event. Expect a thorough report!
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    I like keeping two. My strategy usually is to win through hate (depends on the matchup, though). Dredging away as soon as possible and trying to build up early pressure often works quite well if your opponents expect you to take a more grindy approach post-sideboard. Once they exile my graveyard by turn 3 or 4 (2 if you're unlucky), I usually have a couple creatures on the board and done some damage, so I can afford to switch over to drawing cards again. In those situations, Abrupt Decay just ends the game.

    With Angler gone, what is your approach to combatting hate? I rely heavily on LolTroll, especially against white decks. Dropping it t2 and not getting it Path'ed is insane. Gravecrawlers and Vengevine are also surprisingly effective in Modern if your opponent has to focus on both shutting your gy off and developing a board state. Dumb beaters ftw.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    I'm not a big fan of Gurmag Angler in your list because you don't have a lot of cards enter your graveyard, but mostly only targeted discard. Gurmag Angler and other delve cards only really shine when you run loads of cards that are dead in the graveyard. I'd also play more than 4 copies of 2 mana discard enablers like Lotleth Troll. I suggest running 4 Lotleth Trolls and maybe 1 or 2 Noose Constrictors.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from omeghon »
    Hi guys this is my version of dredgvine,is BG i'm testing it 1 year( with eldrich expansion i have found a lot of new entry Smile ),this is my last version,i appreciate some feedback from you guys ( because the community of my country is ***** and only copy paste list on internet :/ ) btw here we go with the list

    Creature:
    1xBirds of Paradise
    4xBloodghast
    4xGravecrawler
    4xNoose Constrictor
    4xVengevine
    1xUlvenwald Tracker
    3xPhyrexian Obliterator
    2xGnarlwood Dryad
    Istant:
    2xAbrupt Decay
    2xGrisly Salvage
    Sorcery:
    2xCollective Brutality
    3xInquisition of Kozilek
    2xTraverse the Ulvenwald
    Planeswalker:
    1xLiliana, the Last Hope
    2xNissa, Voice of Zendikar
    Land:
    4xVerdant Catacombs
    1xBloodstained Mire
    2xHissing Quagmire
    2xUrborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2xWoodland Cemetery
    3xOvergrown Tomb
    4x forest
    5x swamp

    Sideboard:
    1xPithing Needle
    2xChoke
    2xSurgical Extraction
    1xGolgari Charm
    2xGnaw to the Bone
    1xPhyrexian Revoker
    1xAcidic Slime
    2xCreeping Corrosion
    2xTorpor Orb
    1xNaturalize



    Ftfy:



    Hey, glad you found your way here. First off, let me say that I think there's no real reason (other than to go budget) to not include red in a Dredgevine list. There's just so much powerful stuff going on, that the deck loses quite some punch without it.

    Nevertheless, if you want to stay g/b, here's a few thoughts on your list:
    1. Only a single Birds of Paradise seems loose. I'd also recommend trying the Varolz + Death's Shadow combo if you run a playset of BoP
    2. I'm not a fan of Ulvenwald Tracker when you could just run better removal. Especially if you only run a single copy
    3. Enablers like Grisly Salvage need to be as consistens as possible, so I'd at least run a full playset. You might also consider things like Satyr Wayfinder
    4. Phyrexian Obliterator seems really hard to cast reliably on turn 4 in this deck. What's your experience with it?
    5. If you want to run planeswalkers, I'd cut all three and replace them with 3 Liliana of the Veil. This also helps with the number of discard outlets in your deck, which seems a little low
    6. Lotleth Troll is a great aggressive creature for little mana that also functions as a discard enabler. It's definitely much better than Noose Constrictor
    7. Greenbelt Rampager looks really good in your list. I'd give it a try
    8. This is true for basically every green Modern deck, but if you don't mind the price tag include a couple of Tarmogoyfs.

    Hope these tips help
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on TreesKaidekaphobia - A Tree of Perdition Combo Deck
    Hey, how are all of you doing? Smile

    As of late, I felt like picking up this deck again, especially with new cards like Fatal Push. Are any of you still interested in making this deck a thing? I'm currently working on a version without Assault Formation and am debating whether I still like Eldritch Evolution. Being able to effectively play 4+ copies of Tree is great, but having to rely on 2 cmc dorks feels bad (although I like Wall of Roots, in general). I also want to try Hope of Ghirapur because it's great to sac. before playing Tree or any other combo piece, removal when combined with Diminish, and one evasive power for the Tree + Diminish route.

    I put an updated list on the front page.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Awesome, glad I could help! Good luck with your tournament.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    I think upping the number of Greenbelts is far more effective than adding a single Faerie Impostor. I'm also not a big fan of only running 4,5 dredgers, especially if you're considering Reunion or Looting. I also wouldn't recommend playing Dakmor Salvage in such a colour-demanding deck. A Swamp is probably better. Collective Brutality for me is more of a sideboard card. Conflagrate does a better job enabling and removing, imo. Lastly, I'm not sure what you need the Neonate for, since you will very rarely have both a Neonate and a dredger in your opener. I'd prioritse upping the number of Greenbelts instead.

    I'll be honest, I think this approach to Dredgevine is much less effective than just going for a full on dredge variant, BUT I won't knock it till I try it. Let us know how it performs, if you like!
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Modern Cheeri0s - Puresteel Equipment Storm
    Congratulations on Top8'ing! Do you guys think it's still worth it to buy Retracts (for 4 euros each)? I want to buy into the archetype, anyway, and I definitely don't mind doing so with a little profit on the side Grin
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    It's super strong. I cut 2 Conflagrates for it, which says a lot. Great against aggro, great as an engine, just great all around.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    I think so, too. That and Relic.

    We're incredibly fast g1, so I've rarely missed removal preboard. I used to run 2 Conflagrates, but it's quite bad with Haunted Dead and I won't cut it for Conflagrate.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Sure thing:



    I'm not sure about my mana base, anymore, since I haven't updated it in a long time. I might cut another basic for a Mountain, although the problem with that is that I want two basic Swamps against aggro and Bloodmoon to be able to chain Gravecrawlers. I have been extremely happy about how the landbase performed, but recent changes might require me to tweek a thing or two. Oh, btw: the 2/4-split of Catacombs and Mire were originally a budget choice, but I actually like it better like this, now that the deck is more r/b than it used to be a year ago. Other than that, I'm not sure about the sideboard post AER. I expect less hate, so I don't think I want enchantment removal for R.i.P., anymore. Abrupt Decay has always felt clunky, but it's just so incredibly versatile and reliable that I don't feel comfortable cutting it. Darkblast seems good in theory, but has never done too much for me. I'll keep it in, nonetheless. It's strong in the Infect or Tokens matchup. I also don't like Ghost Quarter or Loam as individual cards, but the lock simply is a free win against certain decks, so I'll stick with it for now.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Greenbelt looks really good. Nice find, Creamy!

    I don't understand why people shy away from the dredge mechanic, especially now that we don't have to fear gravehate as much anymore. I only had 2 Imps in my list, anyway, so 2 of my Trolls only get a dredge downgrade of 1, which really doesn't hurt the deck at all. The 2 remaining Thugs are much worse, but still not a big deal. Metawise, this deck has probably even become better now and therefore I don't think we should go back to older variants that don't utilize many of the post-Innistrad things that have finally given this deck tier 2 potential. Wayfinder and co. had their uses, but in the end were only there because we didn't have access to faster things. Neonate and Reunion changed that and I don't want to pass up on them now that they're there.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Only playing 4 dredgers seems wayyyy to few. I think we agreed on 6 to 7 as a bare minimum once.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Although it's neat tech, I think Cryptbreaker is much too cute. As for Smuggler's Copter, I like minimizing the amount of cards that are dead in the yard and even if I wouldn't care, would probably just run Gurmag Angler over anything else. Swapping out Trolls for Thugs and Stinkweeds seems decent. The days in which I played Salvage or Wayfinder are definitely gone.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Thug is 10 bucks now? I have like 6 of those lying around. Sweet.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Like mentioned before by Pizzap, Fwtal Push will make midrange much more popular, which in turn makes creatures such as LolTroll and Angler worse.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    I don't think we have to worry about dredgers. I'll just play Golgari Thug and up my Stinkweed count. I expect less hate, so I don't recommend shying away from the all-in dredge version. Gurmag Angler seems bad with Fatal Push around.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Modern Cheeri0s - Puresteel Equipment Storm
    Quote from Be_lakor »
    Do What you have to do. Do you want them for coolness factor or because of lowest price?


    For the lowest price, obviously. What's the point in asking about a "coolness factor" (whatever that is. This is MTG, we're not turning cool again any time soon ;p)?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Modern Cheeri0s - Puresteel Equipment Storm
    Guys, I need a quick second guess: I'm about to buy 2 Russian and 2 Japanese Paladins for 20 euros. Smart or not?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Modern Cheeri0s - Puresteel Equipment Storm
    Just dropping by to say congratulations Smile Hope we'll see more of you guys in Modern from now on, I've always had a soft spot for this deck <3
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Stumbled on this just now, looks like we missed a top 8 this year by only hairsbreadth:

    http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpla16/dredgevine-with-austin-bach-2016-05-22
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from creamy99 »
    The Mountain has met my expectations. It's saved me a lot of life since being more relient on red. I don't foresee the mountain coming out unless a ban happens.

    Nature's Claim is in there and has been nice. I don't particularly like the lifegain, but I'm too lazy to try out other 1 CMC graveyard hate removal spells XD


    Sounds good, I'll adjust my sd after AR will have been released.
    As far as Nature's Claim goes, the only realistic alternative would be Natural State and I dislike its inability to hit Leyline.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from creamy99 »
    The Mountain helps save some life since Reunion came out, so I rely more heavily on red lately. Nature's Claim is a way to deal with the extra GY hate that's been circulating since actual Dredge has been a thing for a few months. I needed a cheap way to do it. Since the format sped up, it's a great way. Notice I don't keep anything over 2 CMC out of the board except for Gnaw to the Bone!


    I'm well aware why they're in there, Creamy Wink I just wanted to know how you've liked them so far, if they met your expectations, or if you could possibly think of alternatives.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from jackad7 »
    Wow. So looks like everyone is grabbing the pitchforks over on the ban thread. Im thinking what is the best case scenario if there is a ban? Personally i thought grave-troll because it hurts us the least and it will slow dredge just enough to taper it off. This also would have less people play graveyard hate and help us move up a bit. Worst case scenario I think would be bloodghast. He is probably one of the most valuable cards to us right now because of his ability to recur zombies for free.


    Aww, man. I just bought an alt art Grave-Troll...

    Gameplay-wise, if anything other than the Troll gets banned, I'll probably stop playing the deck for a while. I don't think there's a big incentive to ban anything, though. The Dredge-hype has long passed and the deck's nowhere near as oppressive as other things. If WotC decides to pull another bs-move, banning a deck that's "not fun to play against", besides not performing oppressively well, I'll lose the last bit of faith I have in their competence.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from SonicKaos »
    I thought I'd share my current list here because the deck seems like great fun with the new cards that came out recently.



    I think there are a couple of changes that could be made, but overall I am happy with it so far. Juse this afternoon I had a crazy turn 2 that ended with me having a gravecrawler, a Hooting Mandrills, 2 Vengevines and a bloodghast on the table.

    I'm considering the following changes so far though:

    1. I would switch the Breeding Pool for a Steam Vents if I had one.
    2a. I would consider replacing the two Hooting Mandrills for Golgari Grave Troll if I had them as well. The Mandrills have been great and very explosive so far, but I could use a bit more dredge power sometimes to be more consistent. It's a trade off either way really, but both are good.
    2b. I would also like to try switching Hooting Mandrills for 1 Golgari Grave Troll and one more Gurmag Angler. the extra power and toughness stand up to Tassigur better and it's a zombie to boot. costs one more though, which results in needing to exile a recurring creature to pay for it occasionally and that's no fun.
    2c. I would try replacing Hooting Mandrills with Tassigur. The one extra toughness is great and the ability may (rarely) be relevant. It also costs the same as Mandrills which is awesome, but losing out on trample is unfortunate. I think Mandrills can push more damage through early game because of that. Again, another trade off.

    That's pretty much it at the moment. Just a couple of mall adjustments to be made I think... and a sideboard.

    Vengeful Pharaoh has been awesome so far as well btw. It's a wonderful deterrent against decks that attack only with one or two key creatures because they can't do anything about it game 1 at least. It's also easy to get back in the grave if it activates. If not I have also won by hard casting it before, because it's a zombie to boot!


    Hey, welcome to the thread. 4 dredgers seems wayyy to few, I'd go up to at least 6 or 7. I also don't think delve creatures are the way to go, anymore, considering there's barely anything to exile with it that would be dead in the yard otherwise. Pharaoh I have been wanting to try for a while now. I had a copy in the side around a year ago, but didn't bring it in too often. With the newfound popularity of Tron, it's probably a good time to run it again.

    Speaking of sideboards, what is everyone running currently? We haven't talked about this in a while and I feel mine is in need of revision. Conflagrate seems like the major change as of late, but there are other cards to discuss, as well. Is anyone still running Life From the Loam main? I noticed I haven't cast that card in months, although I have one in my top 60 and another one in the side. It only seems really solid in conjunction with Ghost Quarter.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    LolTroll and sad aggro.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Has anyone tried the new fastlands? I don't know how much I like Copperline Gorge in my black-heavy list anymore.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from Polymorph »
    Quote from Polymorph »
    ...


    That surprises me, because I feel this is the most we've ever been in agreement about the deck. We're currently at a point where we have less than 4 flexspots and basically only disagree on what and how much to cut for Cathartic Reunion. Obviously, I'd recommend my list, but as long as you run 4 Vengevine, 4 Gravecrawler, 4 Bloodghast, 4 Prized Amalgam, one or two Haunted Dead, 4 Insolent Neonate, 3 or 4 Lotleth Troll, between 6 and 9 dredgers, 4 Faithless Looting, 3 or 4 Cathartic Reunion, and around 20 lands, you're good to go.


    Ok, great.
    I just scrolled over and therefore were missing the main points.

    Is it possible to run the Version with Birds of Paradise and Varolz, or is this strictly worse than the common Build?


    It just makes the deck more grindy, which is not the place I personally want to be. We lose a lot of speed, but I find the combo extremely sweet, so if you want to try it out, by all means do.
    As far as I know, no onr has really been playing an updated Varolz list post-Innistrad, though. Our list is extremely tight atm, so I really don't know what you could cut for it.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from DolphinBat »
    Yup, that's pretty much the list.

    Played some more games in the past days. Life from the Loam is not as effective as I thought and I find myself wishing it was just the other Stinkweed Imp whenever it hits the yard, and I also don't run Conflagrate anymore. With Cathartic Reunion, even without the dredge engine, you still get to draw 3 cards and discard relevant creatures, which helps me hit the land drops I need. Dakmor Salvage as a 1-of is also good as it gave me that very last land drop I needed to set up my Ghasts and Amalgams. And Haunted Dead saved me in 2 games by being a graveyard discard outlet as well as giving me a spirit chump blocker, so I'll never be taking her out again.

    I moved the Loams to the sideboard, but I'm not really sure what matchups to side them in for. Postboard, grave hate is inevitable so siding in Loam seems pretty bad. I'm not sure though, any advice?


    It depends on your approach to combatting grave hate. These days, I just try to win through effects that only exile the yard once (like Relic). Coincidentally, decks that run Relic, most notably Tron, are also very weak against Loam + Ghost Quarter. Because Tron is a problem pre-board, I like to keep a single Loam, as well as a GQ in my land flex spot (instead of Dakmor Salvage), in the main.
    Against more permanent hate effects like RiP, I first try to race and then once my gy gets switched off, finish my opponent off with dumb beaters. LolTroll can also just win these games on its own if the opp doesn't find a Path. I wouldn't recommend Loam in these matchups.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from Polymorph »
    Is there a stock list to start with?

    I read through the past couple of pages, but there was no censensus about the best possible build.


    That surprises me, because I feel this is the most we've ever been in agreement about the deck. We're currently at a point where we have less than 4 flexspots and basically only disagree on what and how much to cut for Cathartic Reunion. Obviously, I'd recommend my list, but as long as you run 4 Vengevine, 4 Gravecrawler, 4 Bloodghast, 4 Prized Amalgam, one or two Haunted Dead, 4 Insolent Neonate, 3 or 4 Lotleth Troll, between 6 and 9 dredgers, 4 Faithless Looting, 3 or 4 Cathartic Reunion, and around 20 lands, you're good to go.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    This is more of a fun idea I had while watching the PT coverage than a serious question, but what do you guys think of Evershrike combined with cards like Rancor or Edge of Divinity? It's way too many card slots for us to sacrifice, but a turn 3 7/7 or 6/5 flyer that comes back when you kill it seems sweet.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    I like 7 because it's often enough to hit another dredger off of dredging, while not sacrificing too many active card slots. I'd love to play more to increase consistency, but first of all can't find the slots, and secondly don't want to have multiples in my opener. 7 is minimum, though, imo. That number might also very well increase with Reunion. What is your consensus (if there already is one) on it, btw? I think it's powerful enough that we want to run 4, even if it's dead in the yard. Casting one t2 is often just game.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Sounds good. I'll try it without the Conflagrates.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from Skitzafreak »
    So I've been doing some testing with the list Manfred posted, and I think I am just going to cut the Conflagrates to test out Cathartic Reunion. In most cases you're only discarding 1-3 cards with Conflagrate anyway, and being able to Dredge a bunch in replace of the damage seems worth it. However not being able to cast it from the graveyard might be a bit of a downside, but we will see.


    Thanks for the testing. What do you think of cutting the Loam, a Haunted Dead, and only a single Conflagrate? I just found it too valuable against decks that go wide or to sometimes push through that little bit of damage needed to kill your opponent.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from DolphinBat »
    Thanks!

    Yeah I understand. I remember some years ago, I ran 20 lands, casted looting t1 on the draw and was still stuck on 1 land for about 4 turns, losing that game out right.

    I'm on mobile, but here's a gist of my list:

    3 Blackcleave
    2 Copperline
    4 Verdant
    4 Bloodstained
    2 Blood Crypt
    1 Overgrown
    1 Stomping
    1 Twilight Mire
    1 Swamp
    1 Forest

    4 Gravecrawler
    4 Insolent Neonate
    4 Lotleth Troll
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Amalgam
    4 Stinkweed
    4 Grave Troll
    4 Vengevine

    4 Looting
    2 Reunion
    1 Conflagrate
    1 Life from the Loam

    I tried this but found that Reunion definitely needs to be either 3-4, as it's won me many games by just being in my opening hand, at least in testing. The conflagrate is my only answer to maindeck t2 oozes, and sometimes it's not enough. Loam is there for value, but I could see putting it in the sideboard instead.

    Oh yeah, sideboard!:

    2 Decay
    2 Grudge
    2 Gnaw
    2 Lightning Axe
    2 Darkblast
    1 Life from the Loam
    4 Collective Brutality (Really aggro meta)


    Hi, I'm sorry I couldn't get back to you earlier, but I was in Berlin for a couple of days. I personally would start with 3 Reunions and then decide after playing a bunch whether you would have wanted to see it more often. I'd start with either cutting the Loam (not a big fan of that, though) or a Stinkweed. I have found that running 7 dredgers is enough, 8 should be perfect. Not sure how those numbers change with Reunion.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on [Primer] UR Dragonaut - Eye Candy - Nivix Blitz
    Awesome! Thanks for the tips, I'm excited to play it.
    Posted in: Established
  • 1

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Fools seldom differ, nutzbox. At least I feel more confident about my opinion now Grin


    @DolphinBat (awesome name, btw): Mind posting your decklist, so we can figure out some cuts together? I'm sure we can get a playset of Reunion into your list somehow withtout going down to 18 lands.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from DolphinBat »
    Can this deck run on 18 lands? I'm trying to find room for Cathartic Reunion but the list is just too tight with the whole Vengevine engine. Confused


    I wouldn't recommend it, honestly. 19 already seems like a stretch (which I'll be trying out post-Kld), because being stuck on one land is so incredibly bad with this deck. You can easily keep one-land-hands if you have cards like Faithless Looting in your hand, but with only 17 other lands left in your deck I don't feel so confident about this line of play anymore. I always try to get to 3 lands if possible, so I can flashback Looting as an emergency option or to chain LolTroll into Gravecrawler. This way I also can play Conflagrate for 0 and then flashback it, but that's a super fringe case (has happened to me, though).
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on [Primer] UR Dragonaut - Eye Candy - Nivix Blitz
    Thanks for the fast response. I adjusted the decklist. What do you think?

    Posted in: Established
  • 0

    posted a message on [Primer] UR Dragonaut - Eye Candy - Nivix Blitz
    Thanks for the great feedback. This is the list I came up with. Criticism is highly appreciated:



    Not sure how many lands I need and how many of those should come into play untapped... I also have no idea how many double strike-pumps to run. Am I right in assuming Assault Strobe is much better than Temur Battle Rage?
    Posted in: Established
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from Skitzafreak »
    What up, Skitza? Long time no see.

    This is my current list:

    I've been wanting to cut the 20th land for a long time and will do so once Kld hits. I'm still unsure whether Cathartic Reunion will be a 4- or 3-of, but I will definitely move the Ghost Quarter to the side, cut a Conflagrate, and probably a Haunted Dead. I might also have to fit in another dredger to make Reunion more reliable.


    Are the 2 Catacombs/4 Mire a budget choice? I know I myself would prefer 4 Catacombs.

    That also seems like a large number of basic lands, I'm used to running 1-2.

    Have you run into any troubles not having a random blue source to cast Amalgams with?

    How have 2 Haunted Dead been working out for you? I know when I was looking at putting my list back together, I only really wanted to put one in the deck. It does seem a bit much while you also have 3 Conflagrate in there.


    Yes, the Mires are due to budget reasons. In all my time playing this deck I have only experienced a single situation in which I needed to fetch a Forest instead of a Shock. The upside of playing a playset of Catacombs is so miniscule that I don't see a point in spending 80 euros for two more of them.

    Regarding the basics, I found having two Swamps vital in winning against aggressive decks. Being able to chain Gravecrawler into Gravecrawler or LolTroll into Crawler off of basics has been great.

    So far, I only had a single game where Amalgam was stuck in my hand and even than I would have rather flashbacked a Looting.

    Haunted Dead has been great as a two-of because I very often chain Neonate into a dredger t1 and being able to return a Haunted Dead on your opponent's 2nd turn to trigger Amalgams or to enable Crawlers t3 is awesome and ups my consistency a lot. That being said, I can see going down to 1, although I'm quite sure it makes the deck worse (but making room for Reunion is both difficult and necessary, so I'll begrudginly do it). It sometimes interferes with the Conflagrates, you're right, and the 3rd Conflagrate is certainly the easiest cut. But I have been liking how often I actually see one in the grave. Still, it's an aweful card to have in your opening hand and I rarely cast it before t4, anyway. 2 is probably the right number.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from Skitzafreak »
    This forum seems pretty dead as of late and I am not surprised about that when I read some of the things here. Cathartic Reunion is the most broken thing that has happened to Modern in a long while and I will definitely use it as long as it's around. I don't know how many of the old regulars' lists look like atm, but mine almost plays like 'normal' dredge nowadays, meaning I dump my hand by t2 and flood the board. LolTroll is nice if I have it, but only really necessary against hate. I also don't know why I haven't swapped out all my removal for Conflagrates a long time ago; card's just busted.


    Speaking of old regulars, hi how you doing.

    Unfortunately for me my War Veges have been on the shelf for a while. My meta devolved to the point where I had some people actually mainboarding RiP :\

    I've been piloting Lantern Control for the time being but am definitely looking are doing some destructive gardening again. What's your current list looks like?


    What up, Skitza? Long time no see.

    This is my current list:



    I've been wanting to cut the 20th land for a long time and will do so once Kld hits. I'm still unsure whether Cathartic Reunion will be a 4- or 3-of, but I will definitely move the Ghost Quarter to the side, cut a Conflagrate, and probably a Haunted Dead. I might also have to fit in another dredger to make Reunion more reliable.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from jackad7 »
    This forum seems pretty dead as of late and I am not surprised about that when I read some of the things here. Cathartic Reunion is the most broken thing that has happened to Modern in a long while and I will definitely use it as long as it's around. I don't know how many of the old regulars' lists look like atm, but mine almost plays like 'normal' dredge nowadays, meaning I dump my hand by t2 and flood the board. LolTroll is nice if I have it, but only really necessary against hate. I also don't know why I haven't swapped out all my removal for Conflagrates a long time ago; card's just busted.

    From what I've gathered you're blaming my opinion on the lack of activity in this thread? Sorry but that was my first post in four months on this thread so if there's issues try blaming someone else. I was giving my opinion on the card, I said that personally I'm no going to try it right away, I never liked tormenting voice and I'm not sure I would like this so I'll stay with what I like. I said if other people have success I'll give it a try so by all means prove that I am wrong and show me it's good. I'll gladly play it. Your post seems overly hostile for me simply giving my opinion on a card.


    I'm sorry. No, that's not what I meant. I was sick at the time and confined to my bed for almost 2 weeks, which as an athlete made me absolutely crazy and bitter. Again, I'm sorry for being so rude.
    That said, I can see why one wouldn't like Reunion. It's very dependent on a deck that simply does not care about hand size, since only a few interactive cards like Lightning Axe or LolTroll can make casting it feel absolutely terrible. I'm super excited to test it and will report back. I'm convinced this card will break Modern and lead to some kind of banning.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on [Primer] UR Dragonaut - Eye Candy - Nivix Blitz
    Hi, I've been wanting to play an u/r(/g) Shotgun deck for a long time and figured pauper was the perfect format for it. I was very happy when I discovered this thread and would love to contribute. A few questions right off the bat: why is Mutagenic Growth so underrepresented? It seems great as both counter-hate and on the offensive. Secondly, what do you think about Gut Shot? Is it too low-impact? Thirdly, this is a pet card of mine, so I'm very biased, but why does no one run Immolating Souleater? With protection and pump in hand this seems insane.

    I'll come up with a list once I've gotten some feedback. Thanks a lot in advance Smile

    Edit: I've also seen some lists run Brute Force. Why not run Titan's Strength? I'm a big fan of Scry, so are the 2 extra toughness that relevant against burn or in combat?
    And also, what's a critical mass of creatures? It seems to be somewhere around 15 in this kind of deck. That way statistically every 4th draw is a creature, which equals 2 creatures by t2.

    Edit2: Too bad Vigorous Charge is selesnya. Insane sb-option.
    Posted in: Established
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    I have a few problems with this list, but I obviously can't argue with the results. My Italian is far from perfect, why exactly does this list run a split of 3 Narcomoebas and 3 Bloodghasts? It says something about dredging turn 1 with Neonate, but I didn't quite understand that... Other than that, I don't get only playing 3 LolTrolls and not running more Conflagrates. The card's just busted. I also don't see any flex spots, which will become a problem when trying to find room for Cathartic Reunion, once Kld is out.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from nutzbox »
    @killer manfred

    just a question: since your deck plays like a normal dredge deck, are you still using a playset of vengevine?


    Yes, of course. This is DredgeVine after all. Besides, I'm still convinced we are a comparably strong deck since we do not just fold to grave hate (that's why LolTroll is so great and it's also why cutting the Gurmag Angler-Salvage package was so hard for me). Also, 4/3 hasty V-8 war vegetables are simply so much more impressive than a bunch of jellyfish and a single big rhino without evasion. I've gotta admit that the Bridge-Gargadon combo is pretty sick, though. Although you have to get really lucky to be able to use it as an effective way of 'combating' gravehate and I don't like it outside of that scenario (with the exception of being great against Anger of the Gods of course).
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    This forum seems pretty dead as of late and I am not surprised about that when I read some of the things here. Cathartic Reunion is the most broken thing that has happened to Modern in a long while and I will definitely use it as long as it's around. I don't know how many of the old regulars' lists look like atm, but mine almost plays like 'normal' dredge nowadays, meaning I dump my hand by t2 and flood the board. LolTroll is nice if I have it, but only really necessary against hate. I also don't know why I haven't swapped out all my removal for Conflagrates a long time ago; card's just busted.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from nutzbox »
    ohlala! nice card, i will definitely play it. i think life from the loam is now a must if you plan to use this card with conflagrate or haunted dead.

    i also think that this card would push golgari thug as the second dredge card of choice instead of stinkweed imp in order to have a higher chance of casting 2-creatures at turn 3 and 4 for vengevine requirement


    How exactly do you plan on using this with Conflagrate or Haunted Dead? It only produces card parity, not advantage. And honestly, I don't think I would ever want to cast a Golgari Thug on t3. We run LolTrolls and Crawlers, which I think is the most efficient way of triggering Vines. In case I don't mill any Vines and/or Crawlers I'm very content to just flashback Looting to dredge twice, whipe the board with Conflagrate, cast Loam, or play a Haunted Dead eot. Nowadays I often abandon the Vine plan and just beat down with Bloodghasts, Amalgams, and Gravecrawlers. If Thug was a zombie, I'd definitely run him for the Thug-Gravecrawler-Vengevine chain.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Cathartic Reunion is absolutely bonkers and should have never been printed. What do we cut for it?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Do we play Scraphead Scrounger or is it not worth a slot?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • 0

    posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from Dejadal »
    I'm really not sure how I feel about this deck right now :/
    Unless Gravecrawler 5-8 gets printed, it just feels strictly worse than dredge when it comes to aggro. Right now I'm thinking it would be strongest as a midrange (leaning towards aggro) deck with utility spells that help the gameplan (lightning axe, darkblast, collective brutality, etc.)
    I playtested an all in (dredgeless) aggro version with the Varolz + Shadow combo dumped in. I didn't really expect it to work (it didn't) even with 2 lead the stampede and playsets of looting and salvage. On average, it was a turn too slow and would overkill the last turn.

    I've been slowly reworking it a few cards at a time and this is where I'm at right now

    4 vine
    4 crawler
    4 Lotleth
    2 grim Flayer (as troll 5&6 kinda)
    4 birds of paradise
    3 varolz
    3 deaths shadow
    3 bloodghast
    2 flamewake phoenix (haven't tested yet, used to be 1 ghast and 1 collective Brutality

    4 looting
    4 salvage
    1 darkblast
    1 brutality
    2 lightning axe

    19 lands, fetch/shock/basic pool
    Haven't had any mana issues yet

    Any suggestions?

    (This is just a for fun deck and something to use against newer players in my group. I bring Dredge to tournaments)


    Bloodghast is one of those cards that you should always run as a playset, I think. I'd also consider Narcomoebas, seeing that they're great Varolz-targets.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.