Hollow One is insane as a 4-of. It's smaller than Delve creatures and lacks a relevant creature type, but if we have multiples of these in hand, we can just drop them in one turn, either very early or as enablers for Vengevine later on. The fact that these are practically Myr Enforcers that trigger Vengevines definitely makes them a consideration. With a playset of these in my deck, I might consider cutting all the cute tech cards (like Haunted Dead or Honored Hydra) and going down to 18 lands to go full aggro pre-sb. Chaining these with discard enablers like LolTroll or Cathartic Reunion is just too powerful. Not getting hit by Fatal Push is super relevant g1, too.
Opinions? Too cute?
P.S.: I just want to drop a LolTroll t2, dicard 3 creatures, and play one of these to recur some Vengevines, so I can stop playing Magic because it couldn't possibly get any better. I don't play Dredgevine to do fair things, after all
Edit: after making some adjustments to my current version, I noticed I simply couldn't fit 4 copies of this in my list. There might be a Super Vengevine-like aggro version of this deck, that relies less on the gy and instead focuses on beatdown through discard, but I don't think that's a great choice in the current meta. Linear, fair strategies do not match up particularly well against Grixis Death's Shadow.
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Jun 23, 2017Wow, I somehow didn't even consider this. Seems like a great one-off if you can make room for it. I often find myself struggling to push the last couple of damage through and this really helps with that, even if I only have 2 Bloddghasts and maybe an Amalgam out. Casting this for 4 might also just be gg. I'll try it out. I'm also super hyped for Eternalize, seeing how I've been fairly satisfied with a one-off Honored Hydra instead of the last Haunted Dead I had to cut for Conflagrates (those just do not work well together at all).Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
May 30, 2017Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)Quote from THUNDERWANG »This deck hss been a blast to play. I also prefer it over traditional dredge. How has Haunted Dead been testing for you guys?
glad you like it! Haunted Dead is great as a recurring blocker at instant speed, enables Amalgam, and most importantly lets us cast Gravecrawlers. That said, I recently moved my 2 sb Conflagrates back in the main 60, which seems really counter-intuitive with Haunted Dead. Since I also want to try out Honored Hydra as a recurrable zombie-beater, I cut the remaining copy of Haunted Dead for now. I'll let you know which one I prefer in a week or two
May 19, 2017Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)Quote from Soracak »I actually think 3 vengevines is not a bad idea since as a free payoff card it has the hardest trigger requirements between the likes of bloodghasts and amalgams.
By all means, try it out. I just think if we start cutting Vines we might as well play traditional Dredge. Recurring Vines also often is just gg. I'd really advise against reducing the chances of hitting one.
May 18, 2017Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)Quote from THUNDERWANG »Have any of you guys considered going 3 Vengevine in the main? Sometimes drawing too many vengevines can get a bit clunky.
Never go below 4 of things that recur in multiples and for free. Discarding things should not be a problem in any list.
May 13, 2017Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)Quote from Mykhoncho »Quote from Killer_Manfred »Btw, I was wondering about your high dredge count. Since the deck's so packed with staples, I always find it hard to accommodate more than 6 or 7 dredgers in my list. The consensus has been somewhere around 6 to 8 so far. What's your thought on that?
Stinkweed imp is our highest dredge count, so it's a 4 of.
Golgari thug is not only a dredger, but helps recur VV, so 4 of.
Loam is for conflag as stated before, so there's the 2. I might bring it down to one to try the haunted dead out.
Does anyone have any sideboard guidelines they would like to compare?
I don't like running 4 Thugs. They've always felt clumsy to me and I don't like being forced to put something on top of my library if I actually get around to casting it. These days, I don't have any problem whatsoever recurring Vines, anyways, so Thug for me is not much more than a blank dredge 4. Have you played other dredge counts which you could compare to your current number? I'd really like to reevaluate my/our understanding of what's a sensible dredge count. I sometimes feel like my list needs one or two more...
May 9, 2017Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)As far as the hydra goes, I haven't tested it, but it seems super cool. Maybe too slow though. And gets hit by push, no? And it doesn't trigger vv. =(
I does get pushed, sadly :/ I like it in the Haunted Dead spot as a recurrable zombie for Gravecrawler that also functions as a midgame threat. Might be too cute, though.
Insult // Injury
Hm, that card seems cool, but I don't know if in this style of deck. Most of the time, you will cast it from the gy and that cast is kind of meh. I think conflag is much better.
I agree. I just reaaally like the card. Limited has certainly not changed that...
I am looking at the sideboard and may replace the abrupt decay for Vengeful Pharaoh
As always, that depends on your meta. Often, Abrupt Decay is a way of dealing with problematic hate cards, though. Pharaoh doesn't really do that. Again, it's your call.
If you take Loam out, you may as well not run conflag
That's the reason I had originally moved Conflagrate to the side. It's just super dead in some matchups. Then again, the matchup we're it's good, Loam + Conflag just wrecks everything, so it still might be worth mainboarding. I'll give it some thought.
Btw, I was wondering about your high dredge count. Since the deck's so packed with staples, I always find it hard to accommodate more than 6 or 7 dredgers in my list. The consensus has been somewhere around 6 to 8 so far. What's your thought on that?
May 7, 2017Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)Quote from Mykhoncho »Went 5-0 @ a fairly competitive FNM last with this bad boy:
I believe this is the best variation of Dredgevine for now. I think it may be as powerful as the T1 dredge, but nobody plays this version. It's so consistent and synergistic and I don't think it folds that bad to gy hate. Conflag + loam were the allstars this evening and it is what gives the deck the reach/removal it desperately needed. I'd love to hear any feedback. Thanks in advance.
Congrats on the 5-0 and thank you for the report. I agree that this kind of list is the most competitive and am glad to see it put up some nice results. This is most likely the list I'll be bringing to a big tournament this autumn.
Recently, I have moved the Loams to the side to only bring them in in attrition matchups. That way, I can focus on outracing them g1, which we do better than most decks, anyways. We also have to win g1 or the deck's in a really tough spot, since gravehate is still an issue, albeit less so than for other graveyard-based strategies. What are your thoughts on that?
You're not running Haunted Dead, has that been an issue? Do you think you would have liked a one-of Honored Hydra in any of the matches? What about Insult // Injury?
May 2, 2017Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)Quote from Dos_Rouge »one of the things thats driving me nuts in playing my current deck is I lose all of my lilliana's to the dredging of life from the loam or I never draw seismic assault.
to remedy the problem of dredging away my bombs i'm thinking of running 2 Creeping Renaissance in the deck.
this way i can revive multiple lost bombs.
have you guys tried creeping renaissance before?
I haven't, but it seems like a nice one-of. If the game stalls out, you can also just return all your lands to your hand and hit them in the face with Assault. Do you mind posting your list again? I'm very sceptical about Lili in most lists, since she needs cheap resilient creatures to support her, so I'd love to see in what kind of shell you run her.
May 1, 2017Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)Quote from tarmotwin »Back from a big week-end with some news about The Gitrog Monster.
Round one: Esper Death's Shadow
I Suprised him withseismic assault on third 3, throw enought damage next two turns to kill. Win first game easy
Lost the next two against negate, spell snare,and heavy pressure from tasigur, the golden fang, Gurmag Angler and abviously Death's Shadow.
Still Could have won third 2 times. I had him at lethal once (8 lifes), but he Collective Brutality drained 2 life and he finished the game at 1.
Round two: Eldrazi Aggro
Won first game and third game.
Inquisition of kozilek, Thoughtseize away matter reshaper,thought-knot seer.
Lightning bolt killed Metallic mimic and early Walking ballista, but I'm not sure about Lightning bolt me nether. Still need something else likeFatal Push.
round three: (Playing against this guy each time I go there, pairing are random right?;) Grixis Control
Lost both for some good playing inquisition of kozilek my Seismic Assault, tasigur, the golden fang,lightning bolt/Snapcaster mage/lightning bolt my face.
So The Gitrog Monster will hit the shelf for a while, concentrating on a more Jundish deck I'm use to play. I'm going to list another more aggressive deck this week, looking on @Killer_Manfred 's advices. I felt like sideboarding him out each game because I needed every land in hand to destroy early threats, almost never going to 5 lands in play. Or maybe pratice a more late game playline? Maybe more Fatal Push would have helped?
Big week ahead so I'll be reading the primer for the next friday night magic
Thanks for the report, mate. There's definitely no shame in losing to those decks. Let us know when you come up with a Jund list. I'll happily steal your ideas if I like the list ;p
Apr 29, 2017I hate to triple-post because people tend to feel brickwalled by that and don't answer even one of the replies as a result, but I just couldn't wait to share my experiences from yesterday with you guys.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
The deck's completely bonkers. I played a couple matches against Grixis Death's Shadow (one of the strongest Modern decks right now, imo) and it's clearly a very good matchup for us; probably something like a 60/40. Here are a few notable things:
- Shadow of the Grave is great. Not only because it represents a decent mid- to lategame finisher, but also because with two open mana it effectively counters targeted discard.
- Bob is one of the best cards in the deck. It's removal, card advantage, and a clock all in one. It played out even better than I'd expected it to.
- Worm Harvest is awesome. In two turns I went from losing badly to Shadow and Tasigur to winning the game. 5 mana for 6+ tokens every turn is not reasonable.
- The bycicle lands are awesome. Smoothing out your draws while also hitting the grave feels great. 3 seems like a decent count, as well.
- Collective Brutality is nice since it buys a lot of time and gets the engine going. Hitting Fatal Push and Temur Battle-Rage is very relevant.
- I liked Vessel of Nascency. Drawing me lands, milling them, and finding Bobs and Assaults in the midgame is neat tech. I don't like having to have early access to green mana, though; especially if I plan to find Assaults with it. I'm excited to find out how well it synergises with sb cards (Relic of Progenitus, Leyline of the Void, etc.).
I haven't tried Raging Ravine, but the card seems decent. Not producing black is quite bad, though. For anyone interested, here's my updated list. I'd appreciate some sb recommendations!
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Creatures (4):
4 Dark Confidant
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
2 Raven's Crime
1 Worm Harvest
4 Life from the Loam
3 Shadow of the Grave
2 Vessel of Nascency
4 Seismic Assault
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
2 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Graven Cairns
2 Canyon Slough
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 Ghost Quarter
Apr 29, 2017First of all, I like the Gitrog Monster in this deck. 5 mana is a lot and it's easily disrupted, but it's neat tech and if you want to play it, I see no reason why not.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
But there are a few things I would change in your list. You can find the conceptual background for my reasoning in the Jund primer here: (link follows).
- Goyf: This card is not as good in your list as in a typical Jund list for a simple reasons: Liliana of the Veil is an insane discard engine that also grows Goyf once she hits the grave. Without her, your Goyf will often lose against opposing ones or Tasigurs.
- discard: 4 Inquisitions is great, but you want to make sure you can fire targeted discard off on turn 1. For that reason, you usually play a split of either 4/2 or 3/3 Inquisitions/Thoughtseizes. These also grow your Goyf.
- Noxious Revival: I like Kolaghan's Command better in this spot.
- removal: I'm not sure how much I like Lightning Bolt in this list. In times of two different tier 1 Death's Shadow decks, Fatal Push seems much more effective.
I'm in the process of figuring out a sideboard myself, so I can't say anything about yours for now. I hope someone else can jump in to help you.
My phone is starting to lag, so I'll end it here. I hope this feedback helps you smooth out your list. Let us know how it performs
Apr 29, 2017Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Creatures (7):
3 x The Gitrog Monster
4 x Tarmogoyf
4 x Seismic Assault
1 x Maelstrom Pulse
4 x Faithless Looting
4 x Inquisition of Kozilek
4 x Life from the Loam
1 x Raven's Crime
1 x Noxious Revival
1 x Kolaghan's Command
2 x Terminate
2 x Abrupt Decay
4 x Lightning Bolt
2 x Blood Crypt
1 x Stomping Ground
1 x Overgrown Tomb
4 x Wooded Foothills
4 x Bloodstained Mire
1 x Verdant Catacombs
2 x Swamp
1 x Mountain
1 x Forest
2 x Dakmor Salvage
1 x Fire-lit Thicket
1 x Graven Cairns
1 x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 x Blaclcleave Cliffs
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Crumble to Dust
1x Glaring Spotlight
2x Golgari Brownscale
1x Obstinate Baloth
1x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Tormod's Crypt
Fixed that for you I'm on mobile, so I'll post a second reply containing my feedback.
Apr 23, 2017Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)Quote from mykatdied »Cut 2 fetchlands and 1 canyon slough. You have more than enough fetches to start and although I am also excited for the cycle lands I don't want more than two. This isn't legacy where we have Mox Diamond and cycle lands that cost 1 so the 2 mana cycle cost and no way to fetch untapped is still a cost that limits how many you actually want.
You're probably right on the bycicle lands. I'll go down to 2. Cutting a fetch seems a little suspect when I plan on reliably killing 3 and 4 drops, imo.
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Jun 17, 2017Awesome deck idea! Here's my take on it:Posted in: Articles
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Lifegain (11):
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
3 Suture Priest
4 Norin the Wary
4 Genesis Chamber
3 Hidden Stockpile
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Burn at the Stake
3 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
1 Westvale Abbey
I like the interaction between Hidden Stockpile and Norin, generating board advantage while also providing deck manipulation. Suture Priest and Genesis Chamber is a nice combo that both threatens your opponent's life total and stalls out the game. Bitterblossom could also be a valuable addition to the deck, especially in combination with Purphoros.
I realise this is no longer a budget deck, but some of the interactions are too sweet for me to pass up.
Sep 8, 2016Killer_Manfred posted a message on Remember the Weatherlight, Part 5c: Imperfect PartsYou describe perfectly why this chain of refurbished articles was a great step to take for this site. I thoroughly enjoyed them and hope for more things like it published on Salvation in the futurePosted in: Articles
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