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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from ed06288 »
    everyone just CALM DOWN and give it a few more weeks, the set just came out a little over a week ago.
    if you really want the cards and have the money, sure go get what you need or whatever. its not that big a deal if you get them too soon.
    but if you don't need anything, and are just looking to round out your modern collection, i still think you need to wait a little longer.


    Bad advice. We've never seen a reprint on cards as desired as these fetchlands. Oh wait. Yeah we did. Khans reprints of Onslaught fetches. Keep in mind, Onslaught fetches were never Modern legal until the Khans set released.
    Price dropped from $94 to $55 almost immediately. Khans fetches started at about $20 - a $70 drop. And that is an unlimited printing. There is a reason Khans is the best selling mtg set of all time. Hint: It's not because of Anafenza.

    Now we have a limited set reprint of cards that were in a similar position as far as scarcity, price and demand. If demand for Onslaught fetches drove Khans to the all time sales record, what will demand do to MM17 fetch prices? You could not run out of Khans packs, they'd just print more. And yet fetches never dropped below $13 for Delta.

    I see an awful lot of people patiently waiting, thinking prices will drop. I liken the shock they are about to receive to the surprise of a person who puts a firehose nozzle to their mouth to get a drink. Stores sell fetches within hours of them being traded in.

    Go to TCGplayer.com and look at the price gaps between, say, Blood Moon old and new, and Damnation old and new. Now look at the price gaps old and new on fetches. For Tarn, there is no price gap. Sellers want the same price for Scalding Tarn, be it MM17 or Zendikar.
    If you can't read the sign that's right there in bold, and understand what it means, I can't help you. But I can say I tried to warn you. Is Economics really so hard to understand? Huge demand - the biggest MtG has ever seen. Limited printing. Connect the dots. When people ask for trades, the first thing they ask when they look through my MM17 binder, (I opened 16 boxes) 'Where's the fetchlands?'

    'Not trading my fetches.'

    Most of the pm's I received on facebook were requests for fetches, ignoring foil Goyf, foil Lili, foil Decay, Snaps, Guides, Moon, Cavern.

    Nope.

    It was all 'I need fetches. Which ones do you have?' as if I would gladly trade them all away. This in spite of the fact I explicitly stated in my posts I was trading exactly 0 fetches. Indeed, I was looking to trade for several.

    I said the same thing about Fatal Push in January. I said this card will NOT go down. The demand is way to high, even with an unlimited printing. Drafts that have 1 pack per person will not drive the price down. I had countless people call me an idiot and advise waiting a couple weeks to a month. It's been 2 full months now, and the price has risen from the $4 release price to $5.35. In a week, Amonkhet spoilers start, and Aether Revolt drafts start waning. Prices on Fatal Push have risen significantly this week. Hope you didn't sleep on those. Me? I bought 10 before release.

    You might be right about fetches. But I say we've never seen so basic a staple that is in such high demand reprinted only in a limited set. So carry on waiting. All the stars have aligned for your misery.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Looking at Tarn now, it is completely gone. The others are within $2 of each other.
    And that means prices will move up.

    Fast. The window on fetches will be over, and a lot of people will be caught flat footed. I still need to get 3 more, none Tarn.

    I smell a buyout brewing with attendant spike. My guess is we'll see movement Wednesday. Less than 225 listing for both issues of Tarn.

    I'm interested in seeing which version becomes more popular. Personally, I prefer the hologram as counterfeit insurance.

    Holy cow this did not take long. Look for Fetches to be in MM19 as well. They really need a Standard printing.
    I don't see Goyf in MM19, but rather, an even heavier dose of needed money hits, like all the artifacts.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Look for cards with a wide spread. For instance, Blood Moon has the following prices:

    MM17 $22.83
    Chr: $32.89
    8th: $35.87
    9th: $37.51

    Damnation:

    MM17: $24.11
    PLC: $45.04

    Marsh Flats:

    MM17: $25.74
    Zen: $35.01

    Wide spreads tell you the value is there, and the market will grab that value back in a hurry. The lower card price will move up to match the higher. The higher price is very much indicative of the true value, though it will dip. For instance, I'd say the true values of the cards listed above are around $28, $38 and $32 respectively.

    The caveat is the demand, of course. Damnation is not widely wanted, as few decks play it as a 4-of. The demand is largely EDH, meaning they'll sell, but 1 at a time, not 3 or 4 at a time. Thus, it will take back the gap at a slower rate than Moon or Flats.

    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from thomaster87 »
    So, all five MM17 fetches keep climbing up in their prices while stock keeps decreasing.


    Which is exactly as I predicted - in part. I said they would be back to their pre-spoiler price within 6 months.

    We'll see, but I knew the demand would be enormous, because we have to seriously question whether it will see a standard printing at all. Either get them now, or forever hold your peace. And not just the ones you need now, but all of them, because if you want to move into a deck with whoknowswhat color in 3 years? Tough luck. I'm looking to complete my 2nd playset, and I am competing with a lot of people trying to get their first.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    People are realizing that 1: this is not massively printed. 2: box openers are keeping the staples they got, and expanding into a dew deck, rather than trading into a deck. Put it this way: If you are getting into modern, you buy singles. If you are already into modern, you already know what new deck you want to build, or maybe you buy a box, see what you get, and move into a new deck that way.

    I cannot stress enough, and the above poster re-iterated, box buyers do not increase the available cards in the pool. They actually become singles buyers themselves, finishing out playsets, be it guide, fetches, mythics, whatever.
    Once you have a Guide, the hook is set, and oddly enough, the mentality becomes 'I got a guide!I can build burn now!' or 'I got a Death's Shadow, I want to make that deck now!' Yes, the logic is weird, but it happens.

    And yeah, people buying 2 more fetches because they got 2, or those in the market for the entire cycle. I pulled 34 fetches. 0 are for trade. The way I see it, I need 6 more.

    My advice? Get fetches now.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    There is a difference because of the GP's. Between those GP's and the drafts around the world, a LOT of product got dumped on the market all at once.

    Fetchlands change the game entirely, though. I'm still of the mindset that the fetchland price drop wiull bve extremely shortlived, and that by May, the prices will be climbing. Not to their original positions, but I can see $75 Tarns and $50 Misty's by June. This print run simply is not large enough to satisfy demand, and once prices start going up, it's going to be a hard spike as people rush in to get theirs before it is too late. It really demands a standard printing.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Notes on 4 case opening - the Uncommon foil are indeed different. Some look blurry, out of focus, and the comment about being bold is very accurate.

    Collation is just so bad. If you get a good case, it's really really good. If you get a bad case, it's really really bad. How good and how bad?

    1st 2 cases: 2 Goyf, 2 Lili, foils Catacombs, Mesa, Lili, Goyf and Cavern. 3 Snapcaster, 2 Cavern, Linvala, 3 Tarn 5 Catacomb. Heavier on fetchlands in general, but 0 Misty.

    2nd 2 cases: 5 Entreat, 3 Domri, 4 Bonfire, 3 Temporal, 2 Olivia foil, 2 Olivia, 3 Resurgence, foil Entreat, Goyf, Linvala foil, 1 Snap, 0 Lili, 5 catacomb, 4 Misty, Cavern, 2 past in flames.

    Oddity: 2 Desecrator Demons in the entire 4 case lot. 1 Iok in the first case.

    I have a pack by pack breakdown on the first 14 boxes, I should post that somewhere. All this is off memory, rather than looking at my records.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Noxious Revival is rather an interesting include. It's kind of Snapcaster Mage lite. I like it, and will keep it in mind.

    What's with the Night of Soul's Betrayal?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from Saylord »
    I have a feeling the fetchlands are bottomed out, demand for these is huge, and people will buy a ton for resale down the road. The first week where stores and people are cracking all these boxes will keep them around the price they are at now but once the supply slo+ws down they are going to rise. The other cards in this set are not going to rebound like the fetches. If you need fetches I would buy them now.


    That's what I've been saying since Fetches were revealed.
    I opened 14 boxes (2 to go) and the #1 request I get is 'Are the fetches for trade? Tilt ensues when I inform them, No, I'm looking to finish the partials I have into another playset.

    People failed to understand the elemental math. Johnny opens a box, gets 2 fetches. Well, he needs 4, so we didn't remove a demand for 2 from the masses, we just created a demand for 2. And that's if he can trade the 2 he has into the 2 he needs, or he doesn't decide to just buy 3 more of what colors he pulled, as well as 4 of the colors he needs. Only the most foolish or desperate are trading fetches for non-fetches.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Keep the Tarn. it will gain value.

    As for the randomness, I don't mind randomness, but for it to be this bad? It's like they took the mythics and said, ok, these crap mythics will all go together, and these awesome mythics will all go together. It's like Fact or Fiction except your opponent gets to put them face down and you have to choose blind.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Just so you know, collation in MM17 is an absolute mess.

    Opened 4 cases (well, 3 and a half) yesterday. After case 1, I had exactly ONE IoK. I had 3 Snapcasters, a Goyf, foil Liliana, and ONE IoK.

    Now I consider that a fair trade, I'll trade 3 or 4 IoK for a Snapcaster all year long, but the problems run deeper.

    Cases run very hot, or very cold. My 1st 2 cases were incredible. Foil Lili, foil goyf, foil cavern, 4 scalding tarn, 2 reg goyf, 2 lili, Verdant Catacombs for days, lots of fetches.

    2nd 2 cases, well, let's just say I now have a playset of Bonfire of the Damned, Entreat the Angels and 3 Past in Flames and 3 Temporal Mastery.
    And if a playset of Entreat the Angels wasn't enough, how about a foil entreat? And foil Olivia Voldaren in back to back boxes in the same case? Hey, we'll even throw in a couple Sphinx's Revelation and Domri Rade, we wouldn't want you to feel bad. The only saving grace was the 4 Misty Rainforest. The first 2 cases, awesome as they were, had 0 Misty Rainforest. Did I mention collation is a mess? So, from 14 boxes, here's the fetchland collation:
    Scalding Tarn - 6
    Misty Rainforest - 4
    Verdant Catacombs - 8 and 1 foil
    Marsh Flats - 6
    Arid Mesa - 6 and a foil

    That's actually not bad, other than 0 in 2 cases, and 4 in 6 boxes.

    You want more collation issues? Desecration Demon. I have 1 regular. Every other rare I have at least 5 of, other than a certain fetchland. No complaints, he's not a guy I want to pull. I'm just glad its him and not, say, a fetchland (oh hello Misty Rainforest. Haven't seen you around much) or Damnation.

    Am hopeful I will pull another Misty in the last 2 boxes to even things out.

    At the end of the day, I had about 5 or 6 less IoK than the other notable uncommons like Serum Visions, Path and Terminate. I will mention in all that, I've only opened half of case 4, as I will be doing sealed with my nephews this weekend some time.

    I was hoping to come out of this with a foil cavern (check) a playset of Goyf, (3/4) a playset of Lili (2/4) and 2 playsets of fetches, and a lot of other staples to trade into the essentials I don't have (vials, chalices and crucibles being the biggest ones. Oh, and the nirvana of cracking packs, which has a value all it's own. If I do meet those goals, it will only be because I lucked out with foil goyf and foil lili. I'm going to have to cash up for the vials, chalices and crucibles, I think.
    We'll see what the last 2 boxes hold.

    For all that people complain about MM15, I opened 15 boxes, and while I got 0 goyfs, I was ok with it, because I got playsets, or near playsets of all the desirable mythics and rares. Opal (4) Bob (3 and 2 foils) Clique (4) Bitterblossom (4) Kozilek (4) Ulamog (4) Emrakul (3) Karn (2 and a foil) Comet Storm? 2. Prime Time? 2. Kiki Jiki, 2, Tezzeret, 2, Elsh Norn, 2 (she was one of the cheaper ones until just recently). All the value was in the higher end so no goyfs didn't sting as bad. Not to mention getting 6 or 7 of staples like Spellskite, Fulminator Mage, Noble Heirarch, Cryptic Command and so on. It got me into modern, and now, with MM17 I can build very nearly any modern deck.

    We won't even get into EMA. My case was such an extreme outlier (on the positive end) that it's not fair to compare it to anything. Case of a lifetime. And, to be fair, a lot of the value in EMA was in the previously unprinted foils, and even some that had been, which truly made for a lottery experience.

    All in all, the pendulum swung more toward the middle on this one. I have at least 2 of everything. I guess it wouldn't sting so bad if it were all evened out. I pity the fool who gets one of these rotten cases. I'd be beyond royally pissed if I paid $800 for one of the bad cases, where the top value was, in the one case, a lone Goyf, with no other mythic support, and in the other, a lone Snapcaster Mage, so far.

    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Whoah, hang on a minute.

    Mox Opal is always one of the first cards mentioned, along with Simian Spirit Guide as being in line for a ban.

    If it gets banned, the value will drop like, well, an opal (it is a stone, after all!)

    I'd be leery of buying a Mox Opal Masterpiece. My long term on that is Sell. The Arcbound Ravager is a Buy, as are every other masterpiece. 107/108 Masterpieces/Expeditions are a long term Buy, the lone exception is the Opal.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from Tanukimo »
    What about Footsteps of the Goryo?


    Footsteps doesn't grant the grabbed creature haste. That makes it a non starter right there with the sac at end of turn penalty.

    I think you want to look at stuff that's played, but has potential. Boros charm has a lot of play in it, but what about the other charms? Dimir Charm has a really sweet bauble like effect that messes up their next draw amongst other uses. My Twin deck of old used to put it on an Isochron Scepter and give them nothing but lands or anything but lands starting turn 3. Thats a strong potential for a spike if anyone ever found a way to abuse the effect.

    Other cards to look at closely are artifacts and enchantments. There are so many of them that do almost broken things, lots of deck builders are sitting there with a card thinking, if they ever make X.... Puresteel Paladin Cheerios deck were one of them. Mill is waiting for one last piece to blow up, and there go the Hedron Crab, Breaking // Entering, Jace's Phantasm etc with it.

    One card I really like to blow up someday is Altar of the Brood]. It's a wincon that ignores summoning sickness.


    Lands. Lands that have a specific function are always a threat to bust out.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Find stuff that has play value. I bought 100 Sudden Shock, because, well, a shock with split second? How can that not be good? So I bought a bunch, and within a year, it spiked. Same went for Ghost Quarter. Stuff people need, but don't realize yet.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    There seems to be much debate about the print run.

    'My lgs says this'
    Well, I know a distributor, and he says this'

    Etc.

    Regardless, people would be advised that the lack of 3 GP's opening packs means that there are a LOT more cases available to the public. Also means that supply will not reach the public as fast as it did in 2015.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    I predicted that Push would stay at $5 or even go higher. Not many believed. High demand card, and making matters worse is this standard is not popular, meaning less are drafting it. Even if you draft it, it's a 2 Kaladesh, 1 Aether Revolt draft.

    Don't look for prices to fall any time soon. Amonkhet is only a month away, and then the prices should start to slowly rise.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Nihilth isn't Goyf. It is effective, but the payoff is not worth the cost. Paying 1B for a turn 2 4/4 isn't the same as paying 1G and them milling them 8 or 10, and getting a 4/5 or 5/6 beater.
    The only way Nihilith would be better is if Goyf was getting Pushed every time.

    Goyf has a reaction. It stresses the opponent. They use their removal on him, and forget the 5/5 flyer that's actually a bigger threat due to their own lack of answering flyers.

    That's not to say Nihilith won't work, but between a 4/4 or Goyf, I'll take Goyf.

    And its completely ignoring the fact I am opening the door to Blossoming Defense to defend them. A door that may be opened wider. Black can't protect its creatures like white and green can. Black likes to sacrifice stuff, not keep it around.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Reviewing the BUg deck, I've decided on the following changes:

    In:
    4 Jace's Phantasm.

    Out:
    1 Fatal Push
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Verdant Catacombs

    What this does is shift the focus away from mill into an aggroish strategy.

    Ideally we play T1 Crab. The revelation of a T2 fetchland is not going to make them happy, with a Crab on table. Rather than mill 6, they may elect to remove the Crab. In this case, they have used a removal spell, and now we have an Instant and a Land in the graveyard, and Crab adds a creature. Play Goyf, and he is a 3/4 on turn 2, threatening to become even larger. Otherwise we can play a Glimpse, activating both Goyf and Phantasm for a T3 drop, not to mention the exiling possibilities. I do not think we want T2 Glimpse against a burn deck, though.

    On our turn 3 play, we prefer to grow the Goyf with a Glimpse or Breaking, either of which should trigger the Phantasm, which is our 3rd mana play of turn 3. Now we have a Goyf of 4/5, because we added a sorcery, and it may be a 5/6 if we milled an artifact or an enchantment, a 6/7 if both. On top of that, now the 5/5 flyer Phantasm is in play, and they are really regretting using their removal on the Crab. That can be a T4 win if they can't find an answer.

    Alternately, if they decide to let the crab mill, they have 6 cards in their graveyard, plus our land. T2 Goyf, and he is likely at least a 3/4, perhaps as much as a 5/6. T3 is the same play for a mill card and a Phantasm, putting them in the same hole. They will likely use a removal spell on Goyf, but they still face a crab, and a 5/5 flying Phantasm, and we have 3 more Goyfs floating around. I like the chances.

    Ideally they target the crab - in this deck he seems to be removal bait, and my guess he will be remarkably effective in G1 before they know about the Goyf. I'm not sure what their decision tree is going to be in G2, but it will likely involve Chalice if they have them. Adding Phantasm spreads out the threats over mana costs 1 and 2, allowing you options against Chalice. The idea is that they face too many threats to be able to remove them all, allowing you to win on the ground. This is a departure from our standard of winning via mill, but it may be the best we can do until we get the last piece(s).

    6 more days to Modern Masters!

    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from WizardMN »


    Also, I don't think your "trick" actually works. The only card that directly clones Karn is Clever Impersonator and you can't clone your own Karn without putting one into your graveyard due to the Planeswalker Rule before you can activate either ones ability. So, you would need your opponent to have Karn and you to have Impersonator to do what you want and even then it doesn't do a whole lot (besides get rid of their Karn of course). I doubt any sort of "trick" is relevant in the price increase.


    I don't see why it wouldn't. In the same way the Summer Bloom deck used to cast their bouncelands, (untapped with Amulet of Vigor), and then, with the bounce on the stack, tap it for 2 mana before the bounce resolves, you create a copy of Karn, and then use his ability in response to the legendary rule. Also much like sacrificing Fulminator Mage in response to lethal damage or removal to destroy a land.

    That's how I see it. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Cards rise for a variety of reasons. One that has been hitting over the past 5 years and will continue to hit is collectability.

    I remember fondly playing in the backyard with my 2 brothers and sister. We had Luke, Leia, R2D2, C3PO and Darth Vader. We each had our own character, and 1 extra. Many many hours were spent being galactic heroes of the Lucas order.

    It was no surprise to me that Start Wars figures later had a huge price increase.
    The same phenomenon has carried for sportcards of the 1960's, various phenomenon of the 80's like California Raisins, TMNT, Cabbage Patch dolls, and so on.

    Most recently we have seen it with Pokemon, and Magic.

    People get older, actually start reaching some semblance of earning potential, and have surplus income. Yet they feel something is missing, and they wander backwards to what made them happy. The icons of their childhood are one of the first things they look at.

    There may be a lot more room for growth in the middle years of Magic, from 2000 - 2010. All of those kids are now reaching 25 - 35. For even older collectors, midlife crisis will soon hit. They may buy a Corvette. Or they may buy Power 9.

    It's a real phenomenon, and it complicates matters for players of a still living game. Most of the time, when they go back to collect, the fads have long since passed on. In this case, it has not.

    For this reason, investment in RL cards could pay off handsomely, even the lesser priced cards. I would urge that if you do so, select only the highest M/NM grades and slab them, as the buyers are very picky about getting the best examples. It's like signed first edition books - condition matters.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Thought Scour gets played in my mono blue deck. Haven't tried it in Dimir. I guess it depends on what you want, filter and cantrip (Serum Visions) or uber card draw (Visions of Beyond) or mill and cantrip (Thought Scour).

    Wall of Omens is a new one, also you could just go Fog Bank or Wall of Denial. Denial is expensive, but it sure soaks up a lot!

    Hide // Seek sounds hilarious, and is a cheaper Crypt Incursion. Great for Emrakul. Why is this not played more in Esper? I really like that one!

    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    No, there was discussion about it on reddit the other week, and someone posted a comment by a staff member (may not have been Maro) that basically said they do shortprint various commons and uncommons.

    Probably the best recent example that was publicized was Wastes in OGW.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Maro has confirmed that commons and uncommons come in different rarities. Was on his blogatog once.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    In anticipation of Modern Masters 3 giving me the fetches, Lilies and Goyfs I do not have, here is my BUG Mill deck.

    Thoughts? (Other than this competes with Jund for expense. o.0)

    1 Breeding Pool
    2 Forest
    3 Ghost Quarter
    2 Island
    3 Misty Rainforest
    1 Overgrown Tomb
    3 Polluted Delta
    2 Swamp
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Watery Grave
    4 Archive Trap
    3 Blossoming Defense
    4 Breaking // Entering
    2 Extirpate
    3 Fatal Push
    4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
    4 Hedron Crab
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Surgical Extraction
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Visions of Beyond

    Sideboard:
    4 Chalice of the Void (Cheerios)
    4 Grafdigger's Cage (Death's Shadow)
    4 Hurkyl's Recall (Affinity)
    3 Melira, Sylvok Outcast (Infect)

    Not super happy with the sideboard, and it's based upon a U/B mill deck's weaknesses, I need to look at it more.
    Maindeck, biggest thing, I think, is I want 1 more Visions. Did not add Crypt Incursion, I guess testing will show if it is needed.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Absolutely right. We cannot equate commons and uncommons across all sets. A Coldsnap common may well be a Kaldesh rare, and an uncommon an AER Mythic.

    This chart will explain things a whole lot better:

    https://i.redd.it/0bio4d3nmsjy.png

    Coldsnap is the lowest on the chart, lower even than the 3 Kamigawa sets. I think it also demonstrates just how limited the Masters sets are, because the major rares are definitely the type to get listed, despite that its filled with 'filler' stuff. None of the other sets around it can come close to having as much pure value. That so little is listed shows the difference between unlimited and limited sets.

    Since the rumors of high production are dying out, I think it's safe to say that MM17 will be similar to MM15 and EMA.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Modern Masters did absolutely NOTHING for U/B Mill, other than drop Snapcaster prices a bit. Added a few cards that punish Mill to the pool, like Goyf, Abrupt Decay and LotV. I was hoping for a Glimpse reprint, as that would have dropped the price of the major piece and maybe enticed a few players in.

    Esper got Path and Stony Silence.

    All in all, Mill got worse, because other decks got threats and answers price lowered.

    Mill will remain a non-tier deck awaiting a breakthrough card. Since I will open 2ish playsets of Misty Rainforests and likely a few Goyfs, (hopefully a full playset) I will be testing a Sultai mill with Goyf and trying Melira in the sideboard. I'll have to look and see what else G offers. Even just Blossoming Defense for Crab may help.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Basilisk Collar was a fluke. It spiked 2 weeks ago. Going to be some mad people out there. Hopefully they bought from CFB.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Ensnaring Bridge is hit and miss, especially with 4 Visions of Beyond.

    I'd add Breaking/Entering.

    An alternative is to add Memory Erosion. It is the mill version of Eidolon of the Great Revel that will add up turn after turn in the same manner as Mesmeric Orb. I'll likely replace 2 Mind Funeral with 2 Memory Erosion in the main, and if it works, increase it to see if it gets even better.

    Hedron Crab does do solid work, but I like him as a G2 add. Your data is helpful. Did you have any games against Soul Sisters? A friend of mine is running that, and it goes wider than I can deal with. Thank goodness Damnation is getting an MM3 reprint, I'll be adding one somewhere.

    With the Snapcaster reprint, I'll get back to my mono blue control mill.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    In light of talk of huge print runs, I'm thinking current EV of MM3 may be something like $400 - $500 a box, which will spur a massive amount of sales. All those sales will drop prices to the point that in 3 months time, the EV of MM3 is still $250, which means people will still be drafting it or opening it here and there.

    It completely abuses S,PBKASO's reprint equity theory, but they may have research data that told them go for it, or forever forget about cashing the equity in. That tells me that maybe Wizards was being told, make modern cheaper, because it's losing steam as a format.

    Or they may burn Modern to the ground, because in November, they will announce a replacement format, leaving all of us holding the bag in a new Legacy-like ghost town.

    In the meantime, Modern should pick up a lot of new players. Let's hope they stay with it after their first run-in with Lantern, Tron, Infect or Affinity!
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from cleedude »
    Is it me or is this like halfway being made Commander Masters? Like this MM is going to tank the price of optimal mana and premium removal for commander. And a Zur reprint? What the heck?


    Unlike you and me and everyone else, WotC spends money on research. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they have bots that crawl over the major card selling sites to mine data on what is selling, and how fast in relation to market triggers like unbannings, GP results, and the Pro Tour.

    All of that data will tell them 1 thing: The fastest growing format in Magic over the past 2 years has easily been Commander. It is easy to see Commander being targeted with every release.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Did Modern just meet it's Chronicles?
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    My LGS owner told me that suppliers are telling him, there will be NO 2nd wave. Get what you want now, or forever hold your peace.

    I'd imagine distributors got a lot of calls this morning and afternoon. Zenfetches will MOVE this product.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Amazing. I'll have as many as 2 playsets of each fetchland after this. I'm excited. I actually think the price of Zenfetches will rise, because the demand. This essentially ends any possibility of them being in Standard. If you want them - ever, now is the time. Expect any dip to be shortlived. I'm certainly not trading any.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Death's Shadow makes a big showing at SCG Indy.

    As such, I want to deconstruct it for Dimir. I'll allow an Esper expert to deconstruct it for Esper.

    Looking at the decklists, they have a lot of ways to attack Ensnaring Bridge, Mesmeric Orb and artifacts in general.
    Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse, Kolaghan's Command, Ancient Grudge, Kataki, War's Wage, Inquisition of Kozilek {IoK) and Thoughtseize.

    If you have Ensnaring Bridge, you want to get one out G1 if you can, because that completely stops their deck. Yes, they will remove it, but it allows you to board them out in game 2, while they will possibly bring in all their artifact hate. Everything I said about Ensnaring Bridge also goes for Mesmeric Orb. These 2 are great bait to shift them the wrong way for game 2. Don't go so far that it costs you game 1 though.

    They do play Grafdigger's Cage in the sideboard so Snapcaster Mage can and maybe should be boarded out if you play it game 1.

    If you are a lost cause for game 1, you can go all in and exile all their artifact removal. This will set them to thinking Ensnaring Bridge is your only out. Board them out, and bring in more exilers, if you can.

    Their deck is really reliant upon bringing their life total down to make Death's Shadow a winning beater. Cards that do this for them are: Street Wraith, Fetchlands, Shocklands and Thoughtseize. Making Mill's job harder: Tarmogoyf is in the deck. Fatal Push helps, here. They have a LOT of fetchlands, so mulligan to Archive Trap is the safe move. Not a ton of creatures, looking at just the 2 top 8 decks, there is 13 in one, and 12 in the other. Making matters worse for them, those 25 creatures are tied up in 4 cards, one of which is a 1 of, primarily used as a pump.
    Exiling Death's Shadow, of course, puts an end to that strategy. For that matter, you can exile Tarmogoyfs as well, and they have no creatures until turn 4 or 5. If you can jump on their creatures right away, Liliana, the Last Hope becomes a dead card.

    They have the ability to completely wreck your hand with 4 Thoughtseize, 4 IoK, and some Collective Brutality. On the play, they are likely to fetch, so you can get an Archive Trap (or 2!) in when they are on the play before they get their mana to disrupt you as well as immediately exiling something with Surgical Extraction. You will, however, lose your Extirpate if you have one. Your ideal hand will contain an Archive Trap and Surgical Extraction. As to what to exile, I'm not sure. One of their creatures is a really safe bet, but considering they have so much hand disruption, a safer move on their T1 may be to exile Thoughtseize or IoK, simply because they likely have one in hand. If you can get the one out of their hand before they can play it, your ahead of their game. Playing the priority game.

    All in all, if you can remove their 3 creatures, the game is over. Board out Ensnaring Bridge or Crypt Incursion, and side in exilers.
    2 if their 3/4 creatures are Pushable, and the singleton can be Pushed on Revolt. With their hand disruption, if you don't exile them, they will make it very hard to get any mill cards off. Making it even harder is Liliana of the Veil is in some decks, so you can't hold anything once you are in topdeck mode. As long as you get that T1 Archive Trap off and you keep the board clear, they will deck before you do.

    If I missed anything, go ahead and mention it. I used the decklists of Michael Majors (5th, SCG Indy) and Justin Cohen (6th, SCG Indy).

    Their creatures:
    4x Death's Shadow (both)
    4x Tarmogoyf (both)
    4x Street Wraith (both)
    1x Ghor-Clan Rampager (Michael Majors only)


    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    I think inclusion of zenfetches could drive the price higher. It would end the dream of them appearing in Standard within the next 2 years, and may prompt panic buying to get the playsets. That would spur sales initially, but in the long run, it would taint Modern with the Legacy brush of having a manabase financially out of reach for most.

    That would not be good for the longevity of Modern, though it would be a great time for Wizards to introduce a new format.

    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    That is very true. In the long run, we'll see holograms matter, and that's when Masterpieces and Expeditions will rise. Right now, the floor is low on these cards. Long term? They'll be where the new border $1000 cards come from.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    The LGS I ordered mine from got 15 cases confirmed, perhaps more later. If fetches are included, demand will explode.

    Don't worry, they learned their lesson from Chronicles.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    I locked in for 4 cases in December. Regardless of what happens, I'm having me a pack opening extravaganza starting at midnight! Grin

    I want a playset of Lili, and a foil Cavern of Souls. Zenfetches would be unreal, but I remain skeptical. 2 more days!2 more days!2 more days! 2 more days!
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Sooooo, are they mythics or rares?

    Either way, I win. Mythic, I get roughly a playset of each. Rare, I get roughly 2 playsets, and prices don't come down like they would if they were a Standard release.

    I'm skeptical though. Zen fetches would consume most of the value in a box, leaving little room for anything else. Some say it would send the price upward, since MM is not an unlimited release like Standard. People would have to purchase now, or wait for upwards of a decade. Really, it would be a very, very bad thing for Modern's continuity and repel new players. I just don't see it happening.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Yes, it utilizes Altar of the Brood, with some other changes.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    For the Mill Purists:

    Just for giggles, I modified Cheeri0s into a mill deck. I think it's even faster now? Seems like it's a T2 deck pretty consistently. It's mono-white using Opals for U when necessary. I'd put it together, but my wallet is tapped out from MM17. I'll proxy it up and test it nevertheless.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    This is odd:

    Griselbrand: up .16
    Stoic Angel: no change
    Domri Rade: down .05

    Seeing that these are confirmed MM17 includes, shouldn't the price be tanking?
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    If you bought copies of Preordain in hopes of a jump, and are complaining about it not being unbanned yet, I have no words.....

    WTH? Memory Jar? I bought 25 copies back when it was $7. Woohoo! There's a spec win!
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Good report. In the future, jotting a couple lines in the dead time before the next matches are posted helps refresh the memory.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Brace yourselves. JTMS unban supposedly incoming. Don't think he really fits in mill, but who knows?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Well.

    It has begun.

    Spoiler Season for Modern Masters started a week early. I'm in love. Smile

    New art for Snapcaster Mage? OMG I LOVE it! My old/Innistrad set may be hitting the trade binder!
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    I've been toying with the idea of abusing Mesmeric Orb. The only problem is, the only decent tap effect that I can find is War's Toll. All of the blue 'Tap creature' or 'tap land' cost too much for the effect gained.
    If we could find something like Mana Drain (and that is even banned in Legacy!) that gives us a cost effective way to tap creatures or lands. Training Grounds and Eldrazi Displacer would work, but is slow.

    War's Toll could be devastating. Basically traps them into casting all their spells in one, and only one phase. No holding up mana for your turn, either. Could be something we look at splashing to stop control, or other reactive decks. Probably protects a Crab very well, as they commit all their mana on just that one spell, making Orb really pay off. I'm going to be taking a close look at this one for the sideboard.

    Does anyone know of a cheap (3 cmc or less) card that taps all of an opponents creatures and/or even better, lands?
    Best if it is in blue or black.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    At this point, it is not a matter of if, but when Mox Opal gets a ban. Same likely goes for the Guide cycle, as ubernostrum pointed out.

    EDIT: Looking at GP Vancouver, I see 0 Cheerios and 1 Affinity (Top 8) in the top 32. Have not looked at the other GP's. Mox Opal may be safe - for now.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Thanks, Greg. Even though our decks have some differences, it is always nice to observe how you attack their deck, and specifically how you board against them. Valuable info.

    Leylines didn't show up today. 0-2, 0-2, and never went off a single time. The highlight was an ~18 yo girl pulling a Masterpiece Platinum Angel. Shrieked, running around and jumping up and down excited. Turns out she plays angels and has wanted one for years. Now she has The. Best. One. Watching wins like that is fun.

    Waiting for Keith's report. I hope the silence means he is grabbing all the sleep he can for day 2.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Pretty good! 3-1 is very impressive, and you learned a valuable anti-affinity lesson in a no pressure situation. That will help tomorrow. Thanks for sharing that with us so we can be on the lookout for it!

    I'm cheering for you. Leaving in 15 minutes to play a $7 win-a-box Legacy tourney (I'm playing Leylines. I can't wait! First Legacy tourney.)
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Lili is pretty iconic. New art would not be well received. My guess is, new art was a warning on Snapcaster Mage, and a few others, most of which I suspect will be 10th ed. or older.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    The writer of the article anticipates a lot of Cheerios at the GP. As much as the 3 staples (Paladin, Retract and Opal) have risen the past month, I have to agree.

    I'm a fan of overboarding to the losses (melira x4 and Hurkyl's x4) in order to even the playing field. The first defense is understanding the deck and how it works so we can effectively deconstruct it.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Modern Masters is, admittedly, a crapshoot. The EV of the boxes is determined by what is included, and that is a decision made as much as 12 months ago. However, random spikes we've largely forgotten over the last year means there could be surprising value in the box. Cards like Chalice of the Void, Surgical Extraction and Leyline of the Void which just recently spiked can end up giving boxes a value a bit better than EV. I'm not remembering any cards suffering a major slump, excepting Snapcaster Mage, and to a degree, Lili, but these are expected entries, and that's the very reason for the slump. There is Arcbound Ravager, but prices are slowly picking up on Affinity, meaning it's going to show a comeback. Blossoming Defense really helped the deck.

    There is also the chance that some element of Cheerios is in the deck, dropping the price even further and enticing even more players into the format. Problem with that is, a ban would be badfeels.

    I think it is fair to say more cards have risen in value than have slumped in the past 12 months.

    There is also a strong possibility that MM17 foreshadows Standard for the next year, as MM15 did.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Hurkyl's Recall on their end step may trap them with more than 7 cards in hand, and they have to discard down. As a bonus, you will know exactly what is in their hand, so a timely Surgical/Extirpate can be a double whammy. I'd focus on Mox Opal or Retract, if they discard one it's a sure bet they have a 2nd in hand. Even exiling an equipment means they are more likely to fizzle when trying to combo off. The article you linked warns to never sideboard below 19 copies. If we can help them get below that number, our odds apparently improve.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    You run Hurkyl's Recall on their end step, and they bring 8, 9, 12 cards back to their hand, and they have to discard down to 7. You'll know exactly what is in their hand, so a Surgical/Extract gives a double whammy.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Keith, KEEP THE OBORO!

    Utilizing it will trigger Revolt on Fatal Push. That's a really good reason to keep it - you get Revolt, without losing anything. You don't even lose 1 life for a fetch, or a card from Orb.

    I guess a major takeaway is: if you ever see Grapeshot in a graveyard, EXILE IT!
    Hurkyl's Recall on their end step will also devastate them.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Mmmmmm. Modern Masters season! I can't wait. Spoilers are 11 days away!


    While it's always a crapshoot ordering early, I've locked in my 4 cases. Now to see what's going to be included.

    We are pretty much assured Snappy and Lili, with Cavern and Goyf as possibles. Could also see Guide, Vial, Chalice and Bridge. Blood Moon is a no, Magic is moving away from 'unfun' as seen in Standard.
    It's the little things that intrigue me at this point, the $10 - $25 cards.

    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Mill players are like Wildlife Biologists. We both stir through the s**t and determine from that what is going on.


    Mill 10 and see if you can figure out their deck. If you can, you know what you need to surgically extract.

    Sideboard from there. I prefer a very narrow sideboard aimed at my worst matchups.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    3 weeks into Aether Revolt, and Fatal Push is holding solid at $5 a copy.

    I don't think it's going down anytime soon.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    If they are in Modern Masters, the value of the boxes would skyrocket, and it would be MM13 all over again.

    And then the value of Zenfetches would also skyrocket. Would be bad feels all around.

    Just ordered 4 cases of MM17 at the LGS. Not at all pleased to get home and find Modern got yet another tournament cut.

    Is Modern dying? Acts like this will lead to it....
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Surgical Extraction is not a win more card. It is a 'win the game right now' card. As such, it goes in the main, because it ends so many combo games immediately. Surgical Extraction is WHY we are so good against combo.

    I'm not willing to dink around and hope they do not pull one of their other 3 copies before I can mill them out. Nope. I'm applying my 'coup de grace' right then and there. Do as you like, I don't give 2nd chances.

    Not only that, but it slows down and hurts non combo decks. Do you know why you use Surgical Extraction on Tarmogoyf?
    Because you just made him the 5/6 everyone fears by milling the opponent. I don't know if you have looked at the mill cards, but we have very little chance to mill them out in the 4 turn clock Goyf just gave us. Your best hope is Mind Funeral, which you declare unplayable. (What you do against Chalice of the Void on 2 beside scoop, IDK.) When I Mind Funeral an opponent, I find they usually mill 12 - 14, and are really frustrated/tilted by it. That's an additional advantage to me when they feel that pressure. They stop playing around cards like Archive Trap.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    If they are in Modern Masters, the value of the boxes would skyrocket, and it would be MM13 all over again.

    And then the value of Zenfetches would also skyrocket. Would be bad feels all around.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Not much change in my deck. I'm not on MTGO, so I don't get to play as much as others. Trying to find room for 4 Fatal Push. Found space for 2 so far.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Timba, I say Archive Trap is control because the first time they get hit with it, it affects their play the rest of the game.

    Hit them T1, and then Ghost Quarter their shock or other dual T3, and bluff that you have another in hand, they'll decline to search. I've done that several times. At that point, you've made it a control card.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Blood Moon won't see a reprint. Modern has shifted to a point where those kinds of cards (including Boil, Spreading Algae, land destruction and Winter Orb) are considered 'unfun'.

    Instead, we are getting power creep in the form of Cryptolith Rite, Inspiring Statuary, Aetherworks Marvel and Paradox Engine foisted upon us. Magic is getting faster and faster - and they keep pushing big nasty teethy creatures.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Reading the comments of the past few days, there are some fundamental misunderstandings of the Mill deck that I want to clear up. Consider this a sort of 'White Paper' for mill. For most of you, this is 'Well, DUH!' But some readers may need a little more insight to the nuances of balance, or may not know at all.

    First and foremost, Mill is an aggro deck. We are racing against a very inefficient clock. In MTG, most clocks go to 20, but ours goes to 60, and then, often to 75. So why do we race this clock? Often, our opponents are unprepared for the different race, or not as prepared. Mill aims to take advantage of that lack of preparation. Other times, the meta may swing more heavily in favor of mill, becoming combo heavy, which Mill excels against.
    Mill really likes to beat combo decks on turn 2, with a Glimpse the Unthinkable, followed by a Surgical Extraction.

    Mill is not a control deck. Aggro and control are opposite play styles. Oddly enough, because Mill is not fast enough as an aggro deck, we add elements of control to the deck to gain time. This, however, does not make Mill a control deck. Too many control cards will make it such though, to the detriment of the deck.

    In our 60 card main deck, we aim to strike that perfect balance of aggression and control that enables us to win. The crucial balance point is always found on the control end, and never on the aggro end. To make this simple, imagine a long scale, with pure aggro at one end, and pure control at the other. A pure aggro Mill deck will very rarely win, because in a turn 4 format like Modern, we simply do not have enough powerful mill cards to ensure that we can mill them out. Assuming the opponent keeps a 7 card opening hand, and that we are on the draw, we must mill an average of 13 cards per turn, and that would win the game on the 4th turn - after our opponent has had his 4th turn. That is 1 Archive Trap per turn, only to lose. Clearly, we must slow the game down. We do this by adding control to the game.

    A pure gas aggro deck will rely on blowout cards to win the game. Cards like Temur Battle Rage, Become Immense, Mutagenic Growth, etc, can accelerate the damage they do. Mill cannot do that. It has a pace to it, limits. We cannot play Mind Sculpt, and then add on more mill with an interrupt, thus mill demands the controlling restraint upon the opponent. (Yes, I know Twincast is a thing.)

    The perfect Mill deck slides the bar toward control only as much as is necessary to win. Too far, and we are inefficient. We drag the game out so long the opponent pushes through, or finds a way around us. Too little, and we lose for being too weak against opposing strategies.

    The difficulty comes in the form of every deck on the other side of the table requiring a different balance point of us.

    Every card in the deck is assigned an aggro or control role. Even lands can have an aggro or control role. For instance, Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, is an aggro card, because it directly feeds an aggro strategy in Hedron Crab. The same applies to fetchlands. On the other end of the scale, a land like Shelldock Isle is considered control, because it is reacting to a set milestone. The same applies to Visions of Beyond. Yes, the result is usually a furtherance of our mill strategy, but it remains a control role. Basic lands have an aggro role up to a certain number - after that number, the assume a negative control role, slowing us down with out any net benefit. We are not assigning a number to this, because the number changes with every game, let alone every opponent. Any time you draw an unneeded land (flooded) you have reached your aggro/control tipping point. This applies to deckbuilding as well as during play.

    Obviously, cards like Glimpse the Unthinkable, Mind Funeral, Mesmeric Orb etc are aggro cards. We need not spend much time discussing those. The real question is, what constitutes control? The simple answer is, anything that reacts to the opponent's attempted line of play. By this definition, Archive Trap is a control card, oddly enough. Fatal Push and Path to Exile are control cards. Crypt Incursion. Your entire sideboard.

    The crucial element in building your deck is to only include exactly enough control to defeat his plan. Some are a 4 of, like Archive Trap. Others the line is much, much blurrier. For instance, Crypt Incursion? How many copies do we run? In my opinion, Crypt Incursion is the tell all card. An aggro mill will run 2. If mill runs 1, it's going very aggro,and needs to justify only having one. If it runs 3, it is becoming decidedly controlling, and again, needs to justify it.

    What about Surgical Extraction/Extirpate? Are they mill or control? They are control cards, affecting the line of play the opponent can take from that point on. Ghost Quarter? Control. Snapcaster Mage? Control.

    The number of aggro cards are very few in a mill deck. The more aggressive, or 'all in' the mill, the more targeted the control needs to be. For instance, a mill deck using Mesmeric Orb needs to have more specific control
    than a deck without it. It needs to have a different response. In a mill deck with MO, you are hitting the opponent constantly, but most importantly, during his untap phase. This requires instant reactability, even if you are tapped out. For this reason, I'd use Surgical Extraction over Extirpate, because the ability to remove a threat needs that immediate response before he can possibly cast a 2nd copy out of hand before we could wait to untap. If I run Tome Scour, I run a higher amount on Surgical over Extirpate to react faster. If I run Fatal Push or Path to Exile, I can use Extirpate, because I have more safety valves.

    I hope that this explanation of Mill as a marriage of aggro and control, and the proper definition of every card as aggro or control aids in finding that perfect balance.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    We do not know for sure that Lili and Snap will be present. Of course, if they are not, it will probably send sales through the floor, but that is no guarantee. You could say it is a sort of 'Lili, Snap, Damnation. Pick 2' situation.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    There was a lot of stuff in MM15 that foreshadowed the BFZ block. I wonder if that will be the case again, where MM17 tells us a lot about the block after Amonkhet?
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    If you want more control, try Perpetual Timepiece rather than a titan. I detest the thought of milling my own win-cons away, Snap or no Snap.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Playing Mesmeric Orb, you really need to also run an Eldrazi Titan. Their face when you Orb your Eldrazi, and all those Snapcasters, Glimpses, and Fetches go back into your library.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Quote from KeithsGenome »
    Quote from Daeyel »
    Timba, do not feel bad for criticisms.

    We do have a saying in English, that if you are going to point out problems, be sure to have solutions.

    But even if you do not have a solution, you still want to let others know about the problems. Criticism should be constructive.

    I've been pondering a shift in mana for Mill. Paradox Engine and Inspiring Statuary beg to be abused, considering all the card draw we have, or potentially have.

    Problem is, that does slow us down a lot. I'll look at it.


    How would you abuse either of those? What nonland permanents are you hoping to untap? What artifacts are you hoping to tap to pay colourless mana, and what would you use that colourless mana for?


    My mind is tinkering with running some number of Inspiring Statuary and Paradox Engine. We already have Ensnaring Bridge. Some decks have Mesmeric Orb. Add in Dimir Signet and we have a card we can tap for mana, or tap for Statuary, and it untaps with every spell we cast due to Paradox Engine. Combine that with our ability to draw with Serum Visions and Visions of Beyond....

    It might be too much to run all in a single deck, or too slow, or or or but it is on my mind.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    Timba, do not feel bad for criticisms.

    We do have a saying in English, that if you are going to point out problems, be sure to have solutions.

    But even if you do not have a solution, you still want to let others know about the problems. Criticism should be constructive.

    I've been pondering a shift in mana for Mill. Paradox Engine and Inspiring Statuary beg to be abused, considering all the card draw we have, or potentially have.

    Problem is, that does slow us down a lot. I'll look at it.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Snapcaster is going to be very high demand. I already have a playset, so any I pull (should be 6 - 8 copies) go in the trade binder, but I'm very specific about what I am looking for in return. It's such an in-demand card, so I can be picky, even if the amount of play it sees is lower than in the past.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    LotV would be reprinted at mythic, and that would affect her prices as much as 2 reprintings affects Goyf.

    I'm convinced WOTC wants the top price of Modern to be $100, and will reprint Goyf until it gets there.

    Best bet is to look through your M13 and M15 lists and see what was reprinted. For instance, Bob was printed in both 13 and 15, so it is unlikely to be reprinted. That's an indication you should buy it now.
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on [Deck] UBx Mill
    https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/5qegqr/true_turn_0_win_in_modern/

    According to the comments, it made the front page for a while.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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