Athreos/Karador put in work for me. Also i highly recommend trading, saving, selling a kidney for living plane and linvala. You're already running Armageddon, so might as well go for it. Also i notice you are going stax-ish but i'm not seeing the seedborn muse or other untap and recursion to go along with it. what kind of budget are you looking at playing with? here is my list. by no means amazing but it's doing okay. i think i need tutors. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/anafenza-hatebears-3/?cat=cost&sort=
Action_Mane, thanks for this primer. I've wanted to build an abzan hatebears deck for a long time, and never did because i wasn't convinced it would make sense in EDH (primarily what we play). after months of gatherer and just looking through my collection, i decided to google it (should have done this first i think) and came across your primer. within a week i went from a stack of cards that kinda meant nothing to a deck. here is my list now:somedumbjerk's deck
it killed it against Leovold. i basically made this deck because one member of our playgroup makes super degenerate decks, and boy does it feel good to punish him. Kambal is definitely going in my list. i'm struggling with room in my list. i'd love to up the mana count, either land or dorks, and i need to make room for Eternal Witness. only played three games with her and she is one of my favorite decks! i'll attempt to better document any interesting interactions. especially since my playgroup tends to play some strange stuff. basically, thanks for all the hard work. especially since your situation doesn't make it the easiest!
it makes the deck fast if you can get it to stick. the problem with it is generally not getting that much use out of it until the next turn if you have to hardcast it. at least the last few times i drew it that was my impression. it does work in my nylea deck and my elves deck though. those decks are more rampy so i can usually drop it early enough to force some wipes early game. by that time you generally have a hand full of threats. what's great about it late game, is you generally don't have much land left, so it can chain into some stupid stuff if you manage to cast stonecloaker a few times EOT. with this deck i'm all about having a few repeat effects, as once the table notices you, stuff tends to get exiled pretty quickly. especially if those repeats (potentially) fill my hand with threats. honestly thinking about adding Cream of the Crop but can't figure out what i want to cut.
Permeating Mass looks like a blast to play, especially with the AA lock. little bit of the pillowfort action, too before you drop and lock it. not sure if it warrants a cut, but it's cute. i thought about Eldritch Evolution but it's kind of a one time use birthing pod, so i became disinterested. i'll take a look at my CMC and tokens tonight when i play and see if i would have wanted it a few times. i'm liking the new set, but not for this deck.
Thanks for the suggestions Realm Seekers is very much on my radar. The problem with it is though, that they are rather clunky. To get to the first land I'd have to spend 6GGG and then it isn't even on the battlefield. I still think about finding a slot for them though.
I previously thought that Amulet of Vigor was like a $10 card and spending that on such a niche card wasn't worth it to me, but I just realized that it is actually much cheaper, so I'll try to pick one up and see if I can find a slot
when i first built this deck, i was just going to go cray cray ramp, and it started as a landfall/amulet package. it's either cute, or crazy good. never been annoyed to draw it. worst case it gets you a free mana, best case enough usable mana for another either stonecloaker ramp, or another important creature. also helps when you have a karoo.
I have shifted the focus in my list to more of a toolbox and recursion deck while still retaining the element of having a well protected board.
One card I found particularly amazing is Glacial Chasm. It helps to alleviate the early pressure that was already discussed as being problematic and lets us develop our board while our life total is protected. It also stops any damage based combos or annoying stuff like Nekusar.
Another card I found to be great is Ulvenwald Hydra. It gets powerful lands like Emeria, the Sky Ruin or Dusk Bowl while probably being the biggest creature on the board. Plus it has reach to protect from fliers.
Realm Seekers is pretty good for this as well. i don't use it in kara because my utility lands aren't really that big of a deal. although looking at your decklist it looks like you cut it in March. also your deck looks hella fast, any reason you don't run Amulet of Vigor? seems like that would almost always chain one additional creature for you with your low mana curve. no ideas as to what to cut though, so i almost didn't even make a suggestion.
had to move monday's game to tuesday because the Warriors game. this also meant four people nstead of six-8
game one i played Karametra. the table was Omnath elementals, Bruna aura's, and Rubinia. Bruna and Omanth are explosive. i managed to stay alive long enough for omnath to get taken out of the game, then kept alive (Barely) and took the game home. the best part was never saw archetype or avacyn, or any way to cheat them in. i won with an entwined Rude Awakening, took out bruna, hit up eerie interlude to untap most of my board (the lands still being creatures) and passed. this was definitely not the best play. i ended up winning thankfully because the Rubinia player whiffed on a top deck.
sadly, i didn't get to see any of the additions to the deck, but wanted to share that this deck can hold it's own without the main stars. that being said, i'm going to find some room for season's past today. i wanted that card pretty badly during this game, because my graveyard actually got full.
I'm going to try it for tomorrow night's game as well if i can get to this deck, hoping for three matches, this will be match 3. working on improving a few other of my decks so play testing time is at a premium. the only problem with season's past is i'm not finding too much stuff in the GY without mill or a ton of counterspells. but my group is getting better...
plus i pulled a foil Season's Past, so it's meant to be, right?
Shaman of Forgotten Ways won me a game i thought i was hosed on the other day. played it late after reaching the lock with avacyn/archetype. playing against a crazy surrak combo deck, a tasigur deck that was very reslient, and an ayli deck that just makes dudes to get rid of other dudes and can be really fast and controlish. they honestly should have won. i put together the lock last turn, and tasigur player had a Cyclonic Rift in hand but no blue sources. they forgot about the second part of the shaman. so i cast Wrath of God and activate. the ayli player gained some life but then i swung and killed him. definitely a win more card, but can surprise people. meta dependent. we aren't too competitive.
Your deck seems pretty good considering you're only building it with the cards you have and to a certain degree of budget. However, Cavern of Souls should not be in the maybe board if your deck is so tribal. Also, how does your playgroup deal with Villainous Wealth? Does an epic casting make the target scoop? Does your victim allow to play out the rest of the game with your spoils? I cut it from my deck because hitting someone with an X>40 Villainous Wealth meant the player scooping up afterwards.
so i've only cast it twice for less than 20 each time. it angers the group for sure. i ended up putting cavern in my elf deck, but this deck is more fun to play. i'll probably cut Villainous Wealth and replace it with Cryptolith Rite as if i get mana screw i can't do anything. thanks for the reply, i'll be play testing this over the next few weeks, hoping to get more than one game in.
first off, thank you so much for this primer. having the three options is huge, and that had to have been a lot of work. i've built a budgetish version of the zombie deck, and it's working pretty okay. some of the big money cards i just can't swing. the gold bordered Gaea's Cradle is only about $35, so i'll probably get that in the next few months or trade an expedition for the black bordered. below is my list:
so the maybe board is full of cards i own that i'm debating about putting in there. only played the deck a few times, so i'm getting the swing of it. going to play test tonight if my group can get their stuff together to come play. basically looking for suggestions on my weak points and any advice from the more experienced pilots.
also if anyone has any questions about certain inclusions or exclusions, i'll be more than happy to discuss! a lot of times i find myself hyperfocused on a theme and end up missing some obvious choices.
Silent Arbiter is great against elves, on top of the other suggstions. i bought the same deck as my intro deck and hated it, because my buddy got the green intro deck and would swarm me right away. board wipes are 100% worth the investment. also a budget combo to make people leave you alone is Stuffy Doll + Pariah's Shield.
just pick the elf guy, or whoever has a swarm and let damage come through. it's kind of a table politics thing, but it's fun. expensive to get out though.
deck as it sits for me
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/anafenza-hatebears-3/?cat=cost&sort=
it killed it against Leovold. i basically made this deck because one member of our playgroup makes super degenerate decks, and boy does it feel good to punish him. Kambal is definitely going in my list. i'm struggling with room in my list. i'd love to up the mana count, either land or dorks, and i need to make room for Eternal Witness. only played three games with her and she is one of my favorite decks! i'll attempt to better document any interesting interactions. especially since my playgroup tends to play some strange stuff. basically, thanks for all the hard work. especially since your situation doesn't make it the easiest!
it makes the deck fast if you can get it to stick. the problem with it is generally not getting that much use out of it until the next turn if you have to hardcast it. at least the last few times i drew it that was my impression. it does work in my nylea deck and my elves deck though. those decks are more rampy so i can usually drop it early enough to force some wipes early game. by that time you generally have a hand full of threats. what's great about it late game, is you generally don't have much land left, so it can chain into some stupid stuff if you manage to cast stonecloaker a few times EOT. with this deck i'm all about having a few repeat effects, as once the table notices you, stuff tends to get exiled pretty quickly. especially if those repeats (potentially) fill my hand with threats. honestly thinking about adding Cream of the Crop but can't figure out what i want to cut.
Permeating Mass looks like a blast to play, especially with the AA lock. little bit of the pillowfort action, too before you drop and lock it. not sure if it warrants a cut, but it's cute. i thought about Eldritch Evolution but it's kind of a one time use birthing pod, so i became disinterested. i'll take a look at my CMC and tokens tonight when i play and see if i would have wanted it a few times. i'm liking the new set, but not for this deck.
when i first built this deck, i was just going to go cray cray ramp, and it started as a landfall/amulet package. it's either cute, or crazy good. never been annoyed to draw it. worst case it gets you a free mana, best case enough usable mana for another either stonecloaker ramp, or another important creature. also helps when you have a karoo.
Realm Seekers is pretty good for this as well. i don't use it in kara because my utility lands aren't really that big of a deal. although looking at your decklist it looks like you cut it in March. also your deck looks hella fast, any reason you don't run Amulet of Vigor? seems like that would almost always chain one additional creature for you with your low mana curve. no ideas as to what to cut though, so i almost didn't even make a suggestion.
game one i played Karametra. the table was Omnath elementals, Bruna aura's, and Rubinia. Bruna and Omanth are explosive. i managed to stay alive long enough for omnath to get taken out of the game, then kept alive (Barely) and took the game home. the best part was never saw archetype or avacyn, or any way to cheat them in. i won with an entwined Rude Awakening, took out bruna, hit up eerie interlude to untap most of my board (the lands still being creatures) and passed. this was definitely not the best play. i ended up winning thankfully because the Rubinia player whiffed on a top deck.
sadly, i didn't get to see any of the additions to the deck, but wanted to share that this deck can hold it's own without the main stars. that being said, i'm going to find some room for season's past today. i wanted that card pretty badly during this game, because my graveyard actually got full.
link to tapped out: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/karametra-hexproofindestructible-1/
thanks for this thread again, this might just be my favorite deck!
plus i pulled a foil Season's Past, so it's meant to be, right?
so i've only cast it twice for less than 20 each time. it angers the group for sure. i ended up putting cavern in my elf deck, but this deck is more fun to play. i'll probably cut Villainous Wealth and replace it with Cryptolith Rite as if i get mana screw i can't do anything. thanks for the reply, i'll be play testing this over the next few weeks, hoping to get more than one game in.
1x Butcher of Malakir
1x Corpse Connoisseur
1x Corpse Harvester
1x Death Baron
1x Diregraf Captain
1x Dowsing Shaman
1x Filth
1x Forgotten Creation
1x Gempalm Polluter
1x Grave Scrabbler
1x Gravespawn Sovereign
1x Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
1x Havengul Lich
1x Hell's Caretaker
1x Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Krosan Restorer
1x Loaming Shaman
1x Narcomoeba
1x Noxious Ghoul
1x Nullmage Shepherd
1x Nyx Weaver
1x Possessed Skaab
1x Profaner of the Dead
1x Riftsweeper
1x Risen Executioner
1x Satyr Wayfinder
1x Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1x Thunderfoot Baloth
1x Undead Alchemist
1x Undead Warchief
1x Vengeful Pharaoh
1x Wonder
1x Yavimaya Elder
1x Zombie Trailblazer
1x Zulaport Cutthroat
1x Blighted Woodland
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Coral Atoll
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Everglades
5x Forest
1x Golgari Rot Farm
5x Island
1x Jungle Basin
1x Mirrorpool
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Nephalia Drownyard
1x Opulent Palace
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Simic Guildgate
9x Swamp
1x Temple of the False God
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Unholy Grotto
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Westvale Abbey Flip
Enchantment (8)
1x Conspiracy
1x Endless Ranks of the Dead
1x Grave Betrayal
1x Mortuary
1x Opposition
1x Parallel Lives
1x Phyrexian Reclamation
1x Rooftop Storm
Artifact (4)
1x Akroma's Memorial
1x Altar of Dementia
1x Coat of Arms
1x Mesmeric Orb
1x Army of the Damned
1x Buried Alive
1x Dread Summons
1x Ever After
1x Gaea's Blessing
1x Life from the Loam
1x Rise from the Grave
1x Victimize
1x Villainous Wealth
Instant (4)
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Empty the Pits
1x Grisly Salvage
1x Sudden Reclamation
Maybeboard (10)
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Cryptolith Rite
1x Dread Return
1x Extract from Darkness
1x Liliana's Indignation
1x Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest
1x Prized Amalgam
1x Vedalken Orrery
1x Whip of Erebos
so the maybe board is full of cards i own that i'm debating about putting in there. only played the deck a few times, so i'm getting the swing of it. going to play test tonight if my group can get their stuff together to come play. basically looking for suggestions on my weak points and any advice from the more experienced pilots.
also if anyone has any questions about certain inclusions or exclusions, i'll be more than happy to discuss! a lot of times i find myself hyperfocused on a theme and end up missing some obvious choices.
just pick the elf guy, or whoever has a swarm and let damage come through. it's kind of a table politics thing, but it's fun. expensive to get out though.