And I think that since exile-and-give-you-a-token plays like a transformation, it fits in blue.
Of course it does, the people who think putting a creature in a graveyard and making a token makes more sense for a blue morph spell can't explain how that is more in flavor than exiling the creature where it can't can be so easily put into play right next to it's supposed new form. Or even worse, pongify on an indestructible creature is a total failure since it just puts a 3/3 into play for no apparent reason.
If the gripe with the card is that the cost is too low and too close to real creature removal that it comes close to stepping on the toes of colors who should have the best creature removal, well, I get that, white having the best mass creature removal and the best and cheapest single target creature removal has always annoyed me since that's supposed to be black's strength, I don't care if they can explain it away the color pie the issue is it's doing the job of another color and it's doing it better, and that's BS if you care about about balance.
oh get over it. the creatures get exiled, sure. but they get replaced with more creatures that can smash face. its an effect thats existed in blues part of the color pie since visions, it just doesn't show up much.
you people talk about blue as if it took your mother into the other room when you were a child and did terrible things to her.
the constant *****ing and whining when one color gets effective tools ensures that the colors will never be equally balanced and will constantly swing around wildly. thats the bigger issue here. wah wah wah blue pissed in my cheerios. wah wah wah red is too aggressive for blue. i get so tired of this **** every card.
i love everything about this card, and not because its blue.
Yeah, this is creature removal in blue the same way that a white instant that said "regenerate target creature then deal 3 damage to that creature" is burn in white. Yeah, it does the same damage as lightning bolt, but all it can really do is tap a creature and remove it from combat.
The mechanics used aren't really relevant if the end result fits with the flavor of the color and what it is supposed to be able to do.
The closest this comes to removal requires unsummon because of the way bounce works on creature tokens, and that's not anything new.
That's because it's a Creature Land and is subject to a lot of bizarre rules interactions.
Actually, this isn't as cut and dry as I thought, but I think this guy is going to let you cast lands, based on the wording "you may cast that CARD" . it specifically does not say spell.
Also, if you can't play lands with his ability, he's pretty weak, no life gain and helped your opponent topdeck something that's probably more useful to them than a land. Not even getting to offset all of that even a little by getting a free land out of this scenario, a pretty common one at that, would make him a complete liability way too often. He's a white and blue creature for heaven's sake, gambling with risky creatures that might screw you over is more of a red thing.
One big difference between it and Nightveil - you can't play lands off it.
I disagree. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir let's you cast dryad arbor "If a Dryad Arbor gains flash, or you have the ability to play Dryad Arbor as though it had flash (due to Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir or Scout's Warning, for example), you can ignore the normal timing rules for playing a land, but not any other restrictions. You can't play Dryad Arbor during another player's turn, and you can't play Dryad Arbor if it's your turn and you've already played a land."
Banisher Priest's ability causes a zone change with a duration, a new style of ability that's somewhat reminiscent of older cards like Oblivion Ring. However, unlike Oblivion Ring, cards like Banisher Priest have a single ability that creates two one-shot effects: one that exiles the creature when the ability resolves, and another that returns the exiled card to the battlefield immediately after Banisher Priest leaves the battlefield.
If Banisher Priest leaves the battlefield before its enters-the-battlefield ability resolves, the target creature won't be exiled.
So it's a single ability, in that it's two abilities they call one ability. Fine. They also said evermind didn't make cards it was spliced onto blue to start with (seriously, look it up). Then changed their minds since the rules said they were wrong. Then errataed it to have a color indicator.
Bah. I don't know why I'm trying to argue that the ability works the way I don't want it to work. There is something wrong with me.
No, since it uses an "until" clause. Just like Banisher Priest does.
The ability says until Gaea's Liege leaves play, but if Gaea's Liege has left play before the ability resolves, there's no Gaea's Liege around to leave play to trigger the "until ~ leaves play" part of the ability.
I would think.
Which might mean the until clause makes things work the way they already do, just in a less confusing way. I'm not sure now.
To make it work the way I wanted, and the way you didn't want, I think the wording would have to be "as long as ~ is in play" which I don't know if that even works with the rules of the game.
I like the way that Fiend Hunter and Oblivion Ring work. I like triggers and layers, love the stack, and I love being able to do things with those cards and things like Flickerwisp. It adds complexity and a uniqueness to the game. I think that a part of getting into this game should be learning those quirky interactions... that to me is the quintessential part of what makes this game special, all the secret tech that can you pick up once you learn triggers and such.
You guys are completely projecting on the, "Guy using fiend hunter and cloudshift is an egocentric spike douche" angle. Gimme a break! I've explained this interaction to many new or inexperienced players, in Modern and in casual. Every time I explained it, I have been polite, and I wasn't being a "rules-lawyer" either. I don't really see a point in that. I'd rather just teach people about all the cool stuff you can (Or used to be able to...) do in this game. The players that I explained the interaction to all thought it was really unique and cool, and they were all seemed very intrigued by it, like they had "leveled up" in the game or something.
I'm actually genuinely sad that WOTC would take this route, since from my experience new players were eager to try out all kinds of interactions with Cloudshift and Restoration Angel and all their various ETB creatures.
I really don't see a point or need in alienating players like me who enjoy those kinds of interactions just to lower the skill curve by a little bit. You're actually hurting newer players in the long run by taking away their ability to learn the quirks of the game and become more skilled.
Edit: And the new Rotlung Reanimator is pretty sweet.
I want cards to work the way they were meant to work and so does Wizards and most players. I am sorry you have a problem with this.
Of course it does, the people who think putting a creature in a graveyard and making a token makes more sense for a blue morph spell can't explain how that is more in flavor than exiling the creature where it can't can be so easily put into play right next to it's supposed new form. Or even worse, pongify on an indestructible creature is a total failure since it just puts a 3/3 into play for no apparent reason.
If the gripe with the card is that the cost is too low and too close to real creature removal that it comes close to stepping on the toes of colors who should have the best creature removal, well, I get that, white having the best mass creature removal and the best and cheapest single target creature removal has always annoyed me since that's supposed to be black's strength, I don't care if they can explain it away the color pie the issue is it's doing the job of another color and it's doing it better, and that's BS if you care about about balance.
I don't throw around the phrase "giant piece of ****" unless I think a card really really deserves it. This card really really deserves it.
Yeah, this is creature removal in blue the same way that a white instant that said "regenerate target creature then deal 3 damage to that creature" is burn in white. Yeah, it does the same damage as lightning bolt, but all it can really do is tap a creature and remove it from combat.
The mechanics used aren't really relevant if the end result fits with the flavor of the color and what it is supposed to be able to do.
The closest this comes to removal requires unsummon because of the way bounce works on creature tokens, and that's not anything new.
They wrestled completely naked though, so he's kind of half right.
Actually, this isn't as cut and dry as I thought, but I think this guy is going to let you cast lands, based on the wording "you may cast that CARD" . it specifically does not say spell.
Also, if you can't play lands with his ability, he's pretty weak, no life gain and helped your opponent topdeck something that's probably more useful to them than a land. Not even getting to offset all of that even a little by getting a free land out of this scenario, a pretty common one at that, would make him a complete liability way too often. He's a white and blue creature for heaven's sake, gambling with risky creatures that might screw you over is more of a red thing.
I disagree. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir let's you cast dryad arbor "If a Dryad Arbor gains flash, or you have the ability to play Dryad Arbor as though it had flash (due to Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir or Scout's Warning, for example), you can ignore the normal timing rules for playing a land, but not any other restrictions. You can't play Dryad Arbor during another player's turn, and you can't play Dryad Arbor if it's your turn and you've already played a land."
I am sure there is a good reason for that, but man, that has got to be a pretty annoying limitation of the rules as far as design goes.
The ability may as well not use the stack at this point.
So it's a single ability, in that it's two abilities they call one ability. Fine. They also said evermind didn't make cards it was spliced onto blue to start with (seriously, look it up). Then changed their minds since the rules said they were wrong. Then errataed it to have a color indicator.
Bah. I don't know why I'm trying to argue that the ability works the way I don't want it to work. There is something wrong with me.
Correctly? What does that even mean?
The ability says until Gaea's Liege leaves play, but if Gaea's Liege has left play before the ability resolves, there's no Gaea's Liege around to leave play to trigger the "until ~ leaves play" part of the ability.
I would think.
Which might mean the until clause makes things work the way they already do, just in a less confusing way. I'm not sure now.
To make it work the way I wanted, and the way you didn't want, I think the wording would have to be "as long as ~ is in play" which I don't know if that even works with the rules of the game.
Can't you bounce Gaea's Liege once the ability is on the stack to make something a forest permanently?
I want cards to work the way they were meant to work and so does Wizards and most players. I am sorry you have a problem with this.