MTG Salvation

Ohhhhh I see. Thank you both very much.

It works, but the next turn, that deathtouch insect will kill whatever that 4+ power creature is.

I could really use some help here. Added Frenzied Goblin and two more Goblin Heelcutters to my sideboard. I could really use some help with what else I can be doing, both to main and sideboard. Just came back to MTG after 15 years away, so I'm still learning all the cards. Thanks in advance!

Here's the Red-Green Bees deck.

Quote from CharonsObol »

Quote from randomdragoon »

What would be cool (and I don't think anyone has really done this before) is if you did the above, but with some simple rules on mulligans (e.g.: Always keep 5 cards, and always mulligan 0, 1, 6, or 7 land hands). Obviously the rules need to be tweaked to the land count because you aren't playing 18 lands if you don't intend to keep 1-landers.

Actually, this sort of thing HAS been done, and it's located here.

Other useful probability resources can be found here and here.

Thanks! Great resources.

Quote from randomdragoon »

What would be cool (and I don't think anyone has really done this before) is if you did the above, but with some simple rules on mulligans (e.g.: Always keep 5 cards, and always mulligan 0, 1, 6, or 7 land hands). Obviously the rules need to be tweaked to the land count because you aren't playing 18 lands if you don't intend to keep 1-landers.

Ok... here's that data. I would recommend reading it from the bottom up, as it starts with a 7 card hand. I believe my code is correct, but could always use more eyes on it (find it below data). Thanks!!!


60 Card Deck with 15 lands in a 4 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 43.65%
P of 2 lands in hand: 21.32%
P of 3 lands in hand: 4.2%
P of 4 lands in hand: 0.28%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.62%
P of 6 lands in hand: 1.03%
P of 7 lands in hand: 1.32%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 16 lands in a 4 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 43.46%
P of 2 lands in hand: 23.28%
P of 3 lands in hand: 5.05%
P of 4 lands in hand: 0.37%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.9%
P of 6 lands in hand: 1.64%
P of 7 lands in hand: 2.35%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 17 lands in a 4 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 43.02%
P of 2 lands in hand: 25.18%
P of 3 lands in hand: 6.0%
P of 4 lands in hand: 0.49%
P of 5 lands in hand: 1.27%
P of 6 lands in hand: 2.54%
P of 7 lands in hand: 3.99%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 18 lands in a 4 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 42.38%
P of 2 lands in hand: 27.01%
P of 3 lands in hand: 7.03%
P of 4 lands in hand: 0.63%
P of 5 lands in hand: 1.76%
P of 6 lands in hand: 3.81%
P of 7 lands in hand: 6.53%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 19 lands in a 4 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 41.54%
P of 2 lands in hand: 28.76%
P of 3 lands in hand: 8.15%
P of 4 lands in hand: 0.79%
P of 5 lands in hand: 2.38%
P of 6 lands in hand: 5.56%
P of 7 lands in hand: 10.33%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 20 lands in a 4 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 40.52%
P of 2 lands in hand: 30.39%
P of 3 lands in hand: 9.35%
P of 4 lands in hand: 0.99%
P of 5 lands in hand: 3.18%
P of 6 lands in hand: 7.95%
P of 7 lands in hand: 15.9%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 21 lands in a 4 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 39.36%
P of 2 lands in hand: 31.91%
P of 3 lands in hand: 10.64%
P of 4 lands in hand: 1.23%
P of 5 lands in hand: 4.17%
P of 6 lands in hand: 11.13%
P of 7 lands in hand: 23.85%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 22 lands in a 4 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 38.06%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.3%
P of 3 lands in hand: 12.0%
P of 4 lands in hand: 1.5%
P of 5 lands in hand: 5.4%
P of 6 lands in hand: 15.3%
P of 7 lands in hand: 34.97%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 23 lands in a 4 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 36.65%
P of 2 lands in hand: 34.55%
P of 3 lands in hand: 13.44%
P of 4 lands in hand: 1.82%
P of 5 lands in hand: 6.9%
P of 6 lands in hand: 20.7%
P of 7 lands in hand: 50.27%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 24 lands in a 4 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 35.14%
P of 2 lands in hand: 35.66%
P of 3 lands in hand: 14.94%
P of 4 lands in hand: 2.18%
P of 5 lands in hand: 8.72%
P of 6 lands in hand: 27.6%
P of 7 lands in hand: 70.98%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 25 lands in a 4 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 33.55%
P of 2 lands in hand: 36.61%
P of 3 lands in hand: 16.51%
P of 4 lands in hand: 2.59%
P of 5 lands in hand: 10.9%
P of 6 lands in hand: 36.32%
P of 7 lands in hand: 98.58%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 15 lands in a 5 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 40.92%
P of 2 lands in hand: 27.28%
P of 3 lands in hand: 8.25%
P of 4 lands in hand: 1.12%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.05%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.09%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.12%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 16 lands in a 5 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 39.77%
P of 2 lands in hand: 29.1%
P of 3 lands in hand: 9.7%
P of 4 lands in hand: 1.47%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.08%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.15%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.21%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 17 lands in a 5 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 38.41%
P of 2 lands in hand: 30.73%
P of 3 lands in hand: 11.24%
P of 4 lands in hand: 1.87%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.11%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.23%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.36%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 18 lands in a 5 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 36.89%
P of 2 lands in hand: 32.16%
P of 3 lands in hand: 12.86%
P of 4 lands in hand: 2.35%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.16%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.34%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.58%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 19 lands in a 5 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 35.23%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.38%
P of 3 lands in hand: 14.55%
P of 4 lands in hand: 2.91%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.21%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.5%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.92%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 20 lands in a 5 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 33.47%
P of 2 lands in hand: 34.37%
P of 3 lands in hand: 16.28%
P of 4 lands in hand: 3.55%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.28%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.71%
P of 7 lands in hand: 1.42%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 21 lands in a 5 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 31.63%
P of 2 lands in hand: 35.14%
P of 3 lands in hand: 18.05%
P of 4 lands in hand: 4.27%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.37%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.99%
P of 7 lands in hand: 2.13%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 22 lands in a 5 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 29.73%
P of 2 lands in hand: 35.68%
P of 3 lands in hand: 19.82%
P of 4 lands in hand: 5.09%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.48%
P of 6 lands in hand: 1.37%
P of 7 lands in hand: 3.12%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 23 lands in a 5 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 27.81%
P of 2 lands in hand: 35.99%
P of 3 lands in hand: 21.6%
P of 4 lands in hand: 6.0%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.62%
P of 6 lands in hand: 1.85%
P of 7 lands in hand: 4.49%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 24 lands in a 5 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 25.89%
P of 2 lands in hand: 36.08%
P of 3 lands in hand: 23.35%
P of 4 lands in hand: 7.0%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.78%
P of 6 lands in hand: 2.46%
P of 7 lands in hand: 6.34%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 25 lands in a 5 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 23.97%
P of 2 lands in hand: 35.95%
P of 3 lands in hand: 25.06%
P of 4 lands in hand: 8.11%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.97%
P of 6 lands in hand: 3.24%
P of 7 lands in hand: 8.8%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 15 lands in a 6 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 36.61%
P of 2 lands in hand: 31.25%
P of 3 lands in hand: 12.9%
P of 4 lands in hand: 2.7%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.27%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.01%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.01%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 16 lands in a 6 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 34.71%
P of 2 lands in hand: 32.54%
P of 3 lands in hand: 14.81%
P of 4 lands in hand: 3.44%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.38%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.02%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.02%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 17 lands in a 6 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 32.69%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.52%
P of 3 lands in hand: 16.76%
P of 4 lands in hand: 4.29%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.53%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.02%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.04%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 18 lands in a 6 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 30.58%
P of 2 lands in hand: 34.21%
P of 3 lands in hand: 18.71%
P of 4 lands in hand: 5.26%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.72%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.04%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.06%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 19 lands in a 6 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 28.44%
P of 2 lands in hand: 34.59%
P of 3 lands in hand: 20.63%
P of 4 lands in hand: 6.35%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.95%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.05%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.1%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 20 lands in a 6 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 26.29%
P of 2 lands in hand: 34.68%
P of 3 lands in hand: 22.5%
P of 4 lands in hand: 7.55%
P of 5 lands in hand: 1.24%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.08%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.15%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 21 lands in a 6 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 24.15%
P of 2 lands in hand: 34.5%
P of 3 lands in hand: 24.28%
P of 4 lands in hand: 8.86%
P of 5 lands in hand: 1.59%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.11%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.23%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 22 lands in a 6 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 22.06%
P of 2 lands in hand: 34.06%
P of 3 lands in hand: 25.95%
P of 4 lands in hand: 10.27%
P of 5 lands in hand: 2.0%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.15%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.34%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 23 lands in a 6 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 20.03%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.38%
P of 3 lands in hand: 27.49%
P of 4 lands in hand: 11.78%
P of 5 lands in hand: 2.49%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.2%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.49%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 24 lands in a 6 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 18.07%
P of 2 lands in hand: 32.47%
P of 3 lands in hand: 28.87%
P of 4 lands in hand: 13.37%
P of 5 lands in hand: 3.06%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.27%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.69%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 25 lands in a 6 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 16.21%
P of 2 lands in hand: 31.38%
P of 3 lands in hand: 30.07%
P of 4 lands in hand: 15.03%
P of 5 lands in hand: 3.71%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.35%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.96%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 15 lands in a 7 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 31.63%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.22%
P of 3 lands in hand: 17.55%
P of 4 lands in hand: 5.02%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.77%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.06%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.0%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 16 lands in a 7 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 29.24%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.74%
P of 3 lands in hand: 19.68%
P of 4 lands in hand: 6.24%
P of 5 lands in hand: 1.07%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.09%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.0%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 17 lands in a 7 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 26.84%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.9%
P of 3 lands in hand: 21.73%
P of 4 lands in hand: 7.61%
P of 5 lands in hand: 1.45%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.14%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.01%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 18 lands in a 7 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 24.45%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.7%
P of 3 lands in hand: 23.65%
P of 4 lands in hand: 9.1%
P of 5 lands in hand: 1.91%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.2%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.01%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 19 lands in a 7 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 22.12%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.18%
P of 3 lands in hand: 25.41%
P of 4 lands in hand: 10.7%
P of 5 lands in hand: 2.47%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.29%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.01%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 20 lands in a 7 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 19.88%
P of 2 lands in hand: 32.37%
P of 3 lands in hand: 26.98%
P of 4 lands in hand: 12.39%
P of 5 lands in hand: 3.13%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.4%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.02%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 21 lands in a 7 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 17.74%
P of 2 lands in hand: 31.31%
P of 3 lands in hand: 28.33%
P of 4 lands in hand: 14.16%
P of 5 lands in hand: 3.9%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.55%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.03%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 22 lands in a 7 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 15.73%
P of 2 lands in hand: 30.02%
P of 3 lands in hand: 29.43%
P of 4 lands in hand: 15.98%
P of 5 lands in hand: 4.79%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.73%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.04%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 23 lands in a 7 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 13.84%
P of 2 lands in hand: 28.56%
P of 3 lands in hand: 30.29%
P of 4 lands in hand: 17.82%
P of 5 lands in hand: 5.8%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.97%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.06%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 24 lands in a 7 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 12.1%
P of 2 lands in hand: 26.94%
P of 3 lands in hand: 30.87%
P of 4 lands in hand: 19.64%
P of 5 lands in hand: 6.93%
P of 6 lands in hand: 1.25%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.09%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 25 lands in a 7 card hand:
P of 1 lands in hand: 10.51%
P of 2 lands in hand: 25.22%
P of 3 lands in hand: 31.18%
P of 4 lands in hand: 21.44%
P of 5 lands in hand: 8.19%
P of 6 lands in hand: 1.6%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.12%
------------------------------

For anybody else who is interested in the numbers, I wrote a python application and crunched the data with it. I will provide both the data and the code below (not optimized, as I just hacked it together).

60 Card Deck with 15 lands:
P of 1 lands in hand: 31.63%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.22%
P of 3 lands in hand: 17.55%
P of 4 lands in hand: 5.02%
P of 5 lands in hand: 0.77%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.06%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.0%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 16 lands:
P of 1 lands in hand: 29.24%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.74%
P of 3 lands in hand: 19.68%
P of 4 lands in hand: 6.24%
P of 5 lands in hand: 1.07%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.09%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.0%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 17 lands:
P of 1 lands in hand: 26.84%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.9%
P of 3 lands in hand: 21.73%
P of 4 lands in hand: 7.61%
P of 5 lands in hand: 1.45%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.14%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.01%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 18 lands:
P of 1 lands in hand: 24.45%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.7%
P of 3 lands in hand: 23.65%
P of 4 lands in hand: 9.1%
P of 5 lands in hand: 1.91%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.2%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.01%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 19 lands:
P of 1 lands in hand: 22.12%
P of 2 lands in hand: 33.18%
P of 3 lands in hand: 25.41%
P of 4 lands in hand: 10.7%
P of 5 lands in hand: 2.47%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.29%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.01%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 20 lands:
P of 1 lands in hand: 19.88%
P of 2 lands in hand: 32.37%
P of 3 lands in hand: 26.98%
P of 4 lands in hand: 12.39%
P of 5 lands in hand: 3.13%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.4%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.02%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 21 lands:
P of 1 lands in hand: 17.74%
P of 2 lands in hand: 31.31%
P of 3 lands in hand: 28.33%
P of 4 lands in hand: 14.16%
P of 5 lands in hand: 3.9%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.55%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.03%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 22 lands:
P of 1 lands in hand: 15.73%
P of 2 lands in hand: 30.02%
P of 3 lands in hand: 29.43%
P of 4 lands in hand: 15.98%
P of 5 lands in hand: 4.79%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.73%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.04%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 23 lands:
P of 1 lands in hand: 13.84%
P of 2 lands in hand: 28.56%
P of 3 lands in hand: 30.29%
P of 4 lands in hand: 17.82%
P of 5 lands in hand: 5.8%
P of 6 lands in hand: 0.97%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.06%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 24 lands:
P of 1 lands in hand: 12.1%
P of 2 lands in hand: 26.94%
P of 3 lands in hand: 30.87%
P of 4 lands in hand: 19.64%
P of 5 lands in hand: 6.93%
P of 6 lands in hand: 1.25%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.09%
------------------------------
60 Card Deck with 25 lands:
P of 1 lands in hand: 10.51%
P of 2 lands in hand: 25.22%
P of 3 lands in hand: 31.18%
P of 4 lands in hand: 21.44%
P of 5 lands in hand: 8.19%
P of 6 lands in hand: 1.6%
P of 7 lands in hand: 0.12%
------------------------------


**************
* CODE BELOW *
**************

import math

def nCr(n,r):
f = math.factorial
return f(n) / f(r) / f(n-r)

if __name__ == '__main__':
lands = 20
totalPossibilities = nCr(60,7)
for lands in range(15,26):
print "60 Card Deck with " + str(lands) + " lands:"
for cards in range(1,8):
probability = nCr(lands,cards)* nCr(60-lands,7-cards)
probability = float(probability) / float(totalPossibilities)
probability = round(probability,4) * 100
print "P of " + str(cards) + " lands in hand: " + str(probability) + "%"
print "------------------------------"


(Can't get the tabs to show properly so I included a screenshot. Apologies!)

Quote from LegendaryFerret »

Generally speaking, when you're trying to calculate a probability, the best way to think about it is to count the number of ways the thing you want can happen and divide by the total number of ways anything can happen.

So in this case, if you have X lands and want to draw exactly k of them, there are (X choose k) ways to pick the lands (where (X choose k) = X!/(k!(X-k)!)) and (60 - X choose 7 - k) ways to choose the non-lands. The total number of possible hands are (60 choose 7), so the probability of getting exactly k lands is (X choose k)(60 - X choose 7 - k) / (60 choose 7)

You, sir, are a rockstar. Thank you.

Hi Everyone,

I'm having a difficult time finding the answer to a very specific question. I'm looking to find the distribution curve of opening hand lands, given the number of lands in a 60 card deck.

Essentially, the question I'm asking is:

Given a 60 card deck where X of the cards are lands, if I draw random 7 cards,
- What is the probability I will end up with 1 land in the draw of 7?
- ...2 lands in the hand?
- ...3 lands in the hand?
- etc. (up to 7)

Any help on how to think about this would be greatly appreciated! I'm really wondering what the subtle differences are in how you select the number of lands.

Thanks!!

Quote from windstrider »

Quote from oldSchoolDuelist »

Quote from Meecht »

Red's mentality is basically "FIRE TO THE FACE!"

It isn't really a reactive (B/W) or proactive (U) color. It's simply "active" because it expends all its resources to bring an opponent down as fast as possible.

I'm getting that. Attack!

But on another note, how do you guys feel about the Hordeling Outburst/Dragon Fodder combo with Kolaghan Forerunners? I'm wondering if it's not fast enough to keep up. I'm trying to play 23 lands (although I've seen a lot of mono-red decks playing with only 20). Any thoughts, comments, etc. are welcomed! Thanks!

Red has to evaluate the power of cards to perform more or less on their own and how they impact the field for their cost. Hordeling Outburst and Dragon Fodder are good in that they put multiple bodies on the field for just one card. If you need another card to make a card good, then that card probably wasn't that good to begin with. If you really want to use Forerunners, then you want them as a curve topper on top of a lot of 1 and 2 drops with the occasional 3 drop like Outburst or Rabblemaster thrown in.

Outburst and Fodder really shine, though, when paired with something like Foundry Street Denizen. Sure, the bonus in only temporary, but you invested only one mana into the Denizen to begin with. The problem with Forerunners is that it starts out with just one power, which is not a great place for the 3 mana investment. Four mana spent on 7 power and 4 toughness across 4 bodies (Foundry + Outburst) is better than 6 mana spent for 7 power and 6 toughness spread across 4 bodies (Forerunners + Outburst).

Red can play swarm to go around things; play sledgehammer for big, evasive, and hasty things; or play control by killing things before they become a problem.

This is a really awesome, in-depth answer. Thank you so much for taking the time to write it. At this point, I love the removal and swarming goblin aspects of red. I'm really just looking for ways to enhance these effects and Foundry Street Denizen is definitely a great start, along with Impact Tremors.

Quote from Meecht »

There are so many effects that kill an X/3 that it isn't worth running over better 3 drops like Goblin Rabblemaster.

If you want to go the fun route with Outburst and Fodder, use Impact Tremors.

Thank you Impact Tremors is a great idea!

Quote from Meecht »

Red's mentality is basically "FIRE TO THE FACE!"

It isn't really a reactive (B/W) or proactive (U) color. It's simply "active" because it expends all its resources to bring an opponent down as fast as possible.

I'm getting that. Attack!

But on another note, how do you guys feel about the Hordeling Outburst/Dragon Fodder combo with Kolaghan Forerunners? I'm wondering if it's not fast enough to keep up. I'm trying to play 23 lands (although I've seen a lot of mono-red decks playing with only 20). Any thoughts, comments, etc. are welcomed! Thanks!

Quote from Meecht »

Quote from oldSchoolDuelist »

Quote from Meecht »

Quote from pokerbob1 »

As has been said before, red does not destroy enchantments. Even when it is blowing up the world, it usually leaves enchantments, Apocalypse being an exception. If you want to kill enchantments, you need to branch out into a second color; white for targetted removal and green for mass removal.

Bearer of the Heavens!

I'm not sure about this card for me, since I think I'll never get to that much mana in one game. But cool suggestion!

I wasn't at all suggesting you run that card, lol. I was purely pointing out another example of Red's "blow up the world" view on enchantment removal.

Ahh. Yes. I'm learning a LOT about red from this discussion!

Quote from Meecht »

Quote from pokerbob1 »

As has been said before, red does not destroy enchantments. Even when it is blowing up the world, it usually leaves enchantments, Apocalypse being an exception. If you want to kill enchantments, you need to branch out into a second color; white for targetted removal and green for mass removal.

Bearer of the Heavens!

I'm not sure about this card for me, since I think I'll never get to that much mana in one game. But cool suggestion!

Quote from Meecht »

Quote from oldSchoolDuelist »

Quote from Meecht »

If you don't want to use tap lands, then you will have to run Battlefield Forge and/or Mana Confluence to utilize the enchantment removal in white, like Erase and Revoke Existence.

Typically, Red's "answer" to an enchantment is to kill your opponent before it can be relevant. What enchantment is giving you problems?

This is really interesting. Out of curiosity, how many Mana Confluence and Erase cards would you have to bring in to the sideboard to make it effective?

I'm running into problems with Assault Formation.

Roast, Stoke the Flames, and Goblin Heelcutter should be effective against Assault Formation decks. Magmatic Chasm is also an option.

Wow! Great thinking. Thank you!

Quote from Natureaddict »

Red splashing green is pretty strong right now with Atarka's Command and others like Shaman of the Great Hunt. Splashing green would give you access to either Destructive Revelry or Back to Nature (if you aren't running enchants yourself).

Ah yeah! This is very cool. I would have to rethink my fast goblins, etc. to make this work - don't you think? Would this basically bring red into a removal/control setting during early turns and open up the board for green creatures?