Problems we are facing is that Caw-Blade drops their artifact at EoT usually, so Manic Vandal isn't super useful... as they equip & swing with a Squawk and have counter magic open for Vandal your turn....
We're trying hard to come up with a counter to Caw-Blade, and it's pretty rough so far. Have to simultaneously deal with Jace, Gideon and equipped Hawks...
Hoping Eldrazi Titan isn't the only answer to Caw-Blade as that will just turn T2 into more of a lame-fest than it already is... *misses Kamigawa Ravnica etc*
Its been doing well so far. Although it is having some problems with the new Caw-Go (Lightning Bolts, Arc Trails, Cunning Sparkmages, etc).
I started MBing Kor Firewalker but I really haven't tested it enough to be sure. Also it would require a rework of the manabase(again) so instead I added the nighthawks.
At times I felt we could use some lifegain (and the deathtouch/flying doesn't really hurt either).
The sideboard is still very much speculation but it has been useful most times.
I really am in love with the soul stair expeditions but i'm not sure if it should be a 3 or 4 of in the deck. I definitely want to see them since it allows us to run out our guys without a care in the world.
Counters / removal / chumps / sacking don't mean much when you are getting the ones that you want back anyway.
That being said with only 8 fetchlands in the deck, if you don't get the SSE early enough, it really does hurt.
Also, I have tried out the Phyrexian Revokers however since CAW-Go has evolved to include burn they are virtually useless.
Thats all for now, If someone want to test versions of Cookie Monster with the Kor Firewalkers MD; please let us know here how it works out. They would be useful in several matchups (Valakut, KRED, Boros) we just need to see if they are going to help us pull down Caw-Go!
As solid of choices as they are, they are limited in their applications. Hexmage is useless for Kuldotha Red and Boros, while neither are particularly useful against Vamps. I feel that they water down the mainboard too much, so I would say keeping them in the sideboard is best.
I do like the idea of a singleton Inferno Titan, but I just love Gideon too much as a board controller and finisher. I'll see if I can squeeze him into the sideboard. I'm honestly considering axing a Ratchet Bomb for one. :/
I have to say that I completely disagree with your comment.
Vampire Hexmages are 2/1 firststrike. They are a must remove for kuldotha red/vampires and any burn that doesn't go to my dome is a good thing. If they don't have the removal... well thats that.
Manic Vandals vs Kuldotha Red (memnite/Signal pest/ornithopter/mox opal) + trade with anything.
vs Vampires (again, they trade).
and if you add in the recursion + walls + ratchet bombs (depending on your version)
Like I said before the choices are good ones.
As for Phyrexian Revoker its funny because just this morning I was thinking that this might be an excellent replacement / sb option for Ratchet Bomb.
Combined with the recusion of this deck it would be quite interesting. They would act like hexmages 5-8 in some matchups and as another 2/1 chump for others, and shut down some decks handily (Fauna, Caw-Go, Quest, etc)
The main reason to run Soul Stair is because it's a permanent, so Sun Titan brings it back on board.
Here's a quick list I came up with. It's a bit more focused on White than Red, so I altered the mana base a touch. I also switched out those Terramorphics for Dragonskull Summit. It's not a budget list, mind you, mostly because I'm fairly interested in where this deck could go.
Most notably, this deck has a hard time dealing with enchantments. I don't think that's much of an issue, given how the only enchantment-centered deck is P. Ascension, which is hardly played anymore. Other than that, the list seems solid.
I moved the Vandals, Bombs, and Hexmages to the sideboard. These cards are VERY narrow and only useful against certain decks. You'll get more mainboard utility by keeping them in the sideboard.
Also, I'm not sure how I feel about Soul Stair. I can recognize the reason for running it (creature recursion), but Sun Titan is really the main target for that. I think cutting it for a few other spells (I'm thinking Inquisition of Kozilek or Duress) might be more valuable in the mainboard.
EDIT: Now that I think of it, I'm considering the following:
I'm considering Duress to be a bit better than Inquisition for a deck like this. It runs a plethora of removal, so it has no shortage of ways to handle creatures. In this instance, Duress is pretty much just better, since it'll grab stuff of any mana cost.
Actually, I have done some more testing and I have to say that I would not change it up too drastically. You have all the right answers so don't second guess yourself.
Hexmage, and Vandals, are solid choices for this metagame. Also cunning sparkmage with the stoneforge's ability to pull up the basilisk collar is also champs.
The only thing I feel your missing is late game bombs. I have added +2 Inferno Titan by cutting 2 ratchet bomb (I think you are probably right to cut these out; they are definitely too slow for what you need).
Not going to quote all the posts I'm replying to here; I'm far too lazy for that. You know who you are.
Re: Blightsteel Colossus: You know what's better than an 11/11 trample infect? A 15/15 Shroud Flying Annihilator 6 that also Time Warps you. Just saying.
Are you also too lazy to post a decklist? If you want to contribute to this forum then post a decklist for discussion/development. Not random unfounded comments.
Wrt Blightsteel Colossus.. I believe in the forgemaster variants of the Tezz deck it is an extremely effective win con. Esp combined with mindslaver.... Emrakul is not searchable, not an artifact, and btw doesn't do a heck of alot from underneath a Tumble Magnet
Ok this is the third time I’ve written this so please forgive me if I am too brief.
@ cescobar - Yes, a few times I have wished I could draw more cards, but to be honest the same thing happened almost as frequently wit the throne/ichor wellspring builds. So much that I actually started fitting in spellbombs (Horizon, Origin) as additional drawing / fodder for the anvils and thrones.
They were working surprisingly well and btw genesis wave as a 1 of was amazing lol however, I digress.
I found that I just wanted to draw something that did something. The build was more combo and did not have enough threat density or even any significant board interaction.
So I have morphed it into a mid range-aggro with some nice "I win" capabilities. With infect and poison counters in the mix; everything in this deck becomes a threat and is able to make complete and effective use of the proliferate abilities.
So much for "brevity" . Long Story short... Yes, sometimes, but the moriok’s ability combined, threat density, recursion, and proliferated poison makes it feel like everything I draw gets me one step closer to winning.
@ Bankai - The combination of infect, magnets, clasps/engine, proliferate, and phyrexian crusader combined with the explosiveness of the anvils often gets me by during Game 1 vs. aggro.
Also Tezz + proliferate and "ultimate" on the same turn has at times taken me out of their reach.
well.. as long as you arent having a problem with the mana
also i dont think this deck really needs to worry about titans.
one tumble magnet basically destroys their gameplan there lol
Well, to be fair. Most Valakut builds seem to be running Acidic Slime in some configuration of md / sb and with GSZ they can get to them in rapid order.
However, Tumble Magnet does make their job a little more difficult.
Why the sideboard:
Platinum Emperion - Mainly against K-red/boros, it has an 8/8 body, will require at least 2bolts + 1arc trail to get rid of or a kicked burst + 1bolt.
Doom blade - I chose doom blade over Go for the Throat is due to a meta choice, there are a lot of artifact players in my meta and not so much vampires.
Phyrexian Crusader - Same as Emperion, mainly against boros, and also caw-blade. The pro white shuts down the oust/condemns, and bypass 100% of their creatures.
Ratchet Bomb - Against K-Red/Boros and mirror matches, leaving the bomb in hand and blowing it for 0 against chalices or getting it up to 2 to hit sphere of the suns/other ratchet bombs/spreading seas.
Swords: I try for a transformation sideboard against caw-blade with the 4 crusader, 2swords, 3revokers. Mainly because they will side in Steel Sabotage/Oust to deal with the non-existant blightsteel.
Phyrexian Revoker - Board in against caw-blade+mirror, shutting down walkers mainly.
***************
In the past 3 weeks of playing this deck at 24man FNMs, I've been placing 2nd or 3rd, losing out to caw-blade only. All the matches with caw-blade are 1-2 losses due to misplays on my part.
Misplays such as using duress and inquisition in the wrong order, or naming the wrong thing with memoricide.
My inquiry is, does anyone have any suggestions in dealing with caw-blade in a more effective manner?
How is your Game 1 versus aggro? It looks like your meta is mainly control?
Hey guys, this is Mike Rooks (furnace celebration pilot).
Chrome Homura summed it up pretty well, but I'd like to fill in a little more info on how my tournament ended up.
After the feature match is was 6-1 and played valakut twice to go to 6-3...
I was mathematically eliminated from top 32 after looking at the standings, but wasn't able to drop in time.
Turns out I am paired against a friend in the tenth round and I was playing up (he had 19 points). I conceded to him thinking he had a shot at top 32 - he ended up 36th :(.
He was playing boros so I'm fairly certain I would have ended 7-3 and had a bit more of an impressive finish. I played an almost exact copy of the deck in the Richmond Open to top 16 if you aren't convinced the deck has potential...
Anyway, just wanted to add my 2 cents... hope you guys find a way to make valakut winnable.
That being said congrats on being an innovator! I noticed in your article that you also have a hard time vs Baneslayer as well. Have you playtested with Eldrazi Monument? It seems that flying indestructible 1/2s might be okay. Throw them infront of Baneslayer and then sac them before damage.. Thoughts?
Here is my latest list:
4 Wall of Omen
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Cunning Sparkmage
3 Manic Vandal
3 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Sun Titan
1 Inferno Titan
Spells(12)
4 Soul Stair Expedition
3 Sign in Blood
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Mind and Body
4 Marsh Flats
4 Arid Mesa
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
6 Swamp
4 Plains
3 Mountian
4 Kor Firewalker
3 Leonin Arbiter
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Memoricide
Its been doing well so far. Although it is having some problems with the new Caw-Go (Lightning Bolts, Arc Trails, Cunning Sparkmages, etc).
I started MBing Kor Firewalker but I really haven't tested it enough to be sure. Also it would require a rework of the manabase(again) so instead I added the nighthawks.
At times I felt we could use some lifegain (and the deathtouch/flying doesn't really hurt either).
The sideboard is still very much speculation but it has been useful most times.
I really am in love with the soul stair expeditions but i'm not sure if it should be a 3 or 4 of in the deck. I definitely want to see them since it allows us to run out our guys without a care in the world.
Counters / removal / chumps / sacking don't mean much when you are getting the ones that you want back anyway.
That being said with only 8 fetchlands in the deck, if you don't get the SSE early enough, it really does hurt.
Also, I have tried out the Phyrexian Revokers however since CAW-Go has evolved to include burn they are virtually useless.
Thats all for now, If someone want to test versions of Cookie Monster with the Kor Firewalkers MD; please let us know here how it works out. They would be useful in several matchups (Valakut, KRED, Boros) we just need to see if they are going to help us pull down Caw-Go!
Cheers,
Diet Pepsi
I have to say that I completely disagree with your comment.
Vampire Hexmages are 2/1 firststrike. They are a must remove for kuldotha red/vampires and any burn that doesn't go to my dome is a good thing. If they don't have the removal... well thats that.
Manic Vandals vs Kuldotha Red (memnite/Signal pest/ornithopter/mox opal) + trade with anything.
vs Vampires (again, they trade).
and if you add in the recursion + walls + ratchet bombs (depending on your version)
Like I said before the choices are good ones.
As for Phyrexian Revoker its funny because just this morning I was thinking that this might be an excellent replacement / sb option for Ratchet Bomb.
Combined with the recusion of this deck it would be quite interesting. They would act like hexmages 5-8 in some matchups and as another 2/1 chump for others, and shut down some decks handily (Fauna, Caw-Go, Quest, etc)
I will test this out.:D
Loving the changes so far. (+2 Inferno Titan)
I think the manabase is going to need some tweaking as well.
Actually, I have done some more testing and I have to say that I would not change it up too drastically. You have all the right answers so don't second guess yourself.
Hexmage, and Vandals, are solid choices for this metagame. Also cunning sparkmage with the stoneforge's ability to pull up the basilisk collar is also champs.
The only thing I feel your missing is late game bombs. I have added +2 Inferno Titan by cutting 2 ratchet bomb (I think you are probably right to cut these out; they are definitely too slow for what you need).
BTW I have gone back to 4x soul stair
VERY rough sb:
Maybe -2 SSE
+2 Mimic Vat
To be fair, Zvi's decklist itself is public knowledge. The decklist is also on the website as part of the "free preview" as well.
I have been playing Zvi's list and it is kinda nuts really.
I like the counterspell package in the sb. It is relevant.
Unified Will FTW!
Are you also too lazy to post a decklist? If you want to contribute to this forum then post a decklist for discussion/development. Not random unfounded comments.
Wrt Blightsteel Colossus.. I believe in the forgemaster variants of the Tezz deck it is an extremely effective win con. Esp combined with mindslaver.... Emrakul is not searchable, not an artifact, and btw doesn't do a heck of alot from underneath a Tumble Magnet
Just sayin....
@ cescobar - Yes, a few times I have wished I could draw more cards, but to be honest the same thing happened almost as frequently wit the throne/ichor wellspring builds. So much that I actually started fitting in spellbombs (Horizon, Origin) as additional drawing / fodder for the anvils and thrones.
They were working surprisingly well and btw genesis wave as a 1 of was amazing lol however, I digress.
I found that I just wanted to draw something that did something. The build was more combo and did not have enough threat density or even any significant board interaction.
So I have morphed it into a mid range-aggro with some nice "I win" capabilities. With infect and poison counters in the mix; everything in this deck becomes a threat and is able to make complete and effective use of the proliferate abilities.
So much for "brevity" . Long Story short... Yes, sometimes, but the moriok’s ability combined, threat density, recursion, and proliferated poison makes it feel like everything I draw gets me one step closer to winning.
@ Bankai - The combination of infect, magnets, clasps/engine, proliferate, and phyrexian crusader combined with the explosiveness of the anvils often gets me by during Game 1 vs. aggro.
Also Tezz + proliferate and "ultimate" on the same turn has at times taken me out of their reach.
Please work, Please work, Please work....
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
4 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacomb
3 Tectonic Edge
Creatures (18):
4 Necropede
4 Plague Myr
4 Corpse Cur
3 Phyrexian Crusader
3 Moriok Replica
4 Everflowing Chalice
3 Tumble Magnet
4 Semblance Anvil
2 Contagion Clasp
2 Mimic Vat
1 Contagion Engine
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Other Spells (4):
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Phyrexian Crusader
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Tumble Magnet
2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Marsh Casualties
3 Twisted Image
3 Etched Champion
This is something I have been working on.
What takes it over the top is the semblance anvils. Saw them in this forum somewhere; kudos to whoever started them they really do help alot.
Also I am really liking the corpse curs alot as well. They allow me to recover from wipes faster.
This deck doesn't strictly rely on Tezz for the win but it can and has happened. (mainly due to proliferate)
Seems to be doing very well.. Thoughts?
Well, to be fair. Most Valakut builds seem to be running Acidic Slime in some configuration of md / sb and with GSZ they can get to them in rapid order.
However, Tumble Magnet does make their job a little more difficult.
How is your Game 1 versus aggro? It looks like your meta is mainly control?
I couldn't tell you how many times I stalled a game with the -1/-1 counters and keeping magnets/tezz, etc viable.
Also discovered that getting in 1 poison damage early combined with contagion engine was awesome.
I won a surprizingly large amount of games with contagion engine/poison.
That being said congrats on being an innovator! I noticed in your article that you also have a hard time vs Baneslayer as well. Have you playtested with Eldrazi Monument? It seems that flying indestructible 1/2s might be okay. Throw them infront of Baneslayer and then sac them before damage.. Thoughts?