You were stating "This is bad, this is bad, oh this is bad" without any facts behind it or reasoning. How is my deck weak when I day two Modern GPs out of three and was one round short on the one I didn't day two? How is my deck the weakest. It has 14 removal spells. I wouldn't consider that weak. Don't forget Ancestral Visions in your opening hand against Affinity, Jund, Abzan, and any other Afro deck is a mulligan to six. Imagine if you actually mulligan to six you are now at five till turn four which is the same as Ceyptic command.
You were the one being like,"The guy running four Electrolyzes has bizarre thoughts and doesn't know what he is doing and saying Cryptic is bad against Tron" when clearly it is one of the better cards in the deck against Tron.
Can you tell me how you deal with Liliana of the Veil on turn twelve then? Assuming they didn't miss six land drops. Gregory Orange still plays four, Shaun McLaren played three last time, LSV played four in Omaha (where the format was faster). People still play four.
How isn't Electrolyze good against Abzan CoCo? They play a bunch of 2/2s and x/1s.
You have to literally try hard to die on turn four with this deck. Creature based decks just can't beat you before turn four with 14 removal spells plus sweepers.
@TappingStones Ever chained Cryptics together? I've Time Walked Affinity eight turns in a row on four different occasions. Snap Cryptic lock. Four Cryptics also changes your Tron matchup to over 50% from where it was due to Eye being banned.
Where do you not want four Electrolyzes oh God of Modern?
Cryptic does nothing in the Tron match-up. I'm not sure what you are talking about. Your deck is less than 30% against Tron. Also you should add 1-2 more untapped T1 U sources for Ancestral vision. No one is running 4 electrolyze because it can be a clumsy card. When you are facing down Tarmogoyfs, Lilianas, Tron, Scapeshift, etc, etc. It's just not something you want to be drawing.
Are you inbred or something?? Cryptic counters spells when they have seven excess mana to cast Karn where Mana Leak doesn't. Uhh... Last time I checked it bounces permanents... Lands are permanents.. Maybe watch Gregory Orange pilot the deck at his GP top8. I forgot which one, but just check it out Derpy.
Tarmogoyf chills on the table till I get to seven life or so then I play a sweeper or spot remove everything. Maybe learn to play the deck? Don't just shoot the first ten threats you see hit the table. I've been playing this deck since before you probly knew what Modern was. I've been playing since it was a format derived from Extended. At this point killing yourself might be the best option for a deck to pilot. Lmaoooo
@TappingStones Ever chained Cryptics together? I've Time Walked Affinity eight turns in a row on four different occasions. Snap Cryptic lock. Four Cryptics also changes your Tron matchup to over 50% from where it was due to Eye being banned.
Where do you not want four Electrolyzes?
You can't Mana Leak Liliana of the Veil on turn twelve either. Cryptic does everything you would want any card to do in your deck except actually win the game. Modern is a slow format again. Aside from infect, burn, Affinity, and Storm it is really slow. Cryptic is your ONLY out to Emrakuel when he is casted. Against Tron you are not the control deck. Cryptic breaks of the land assembly and deals with all their threats. You have early counters to deal with Karn coming on turn three. Snare breaks up Scrying and Mana Leak counters Karn.
Electrolyze is the best card against Affinity, opposing Planeswalkers, Infect, Tokens, Jund, Abzan Company. Those decks together are more than 60% of the meta.
Remand is also bad in your "Control deck" since it theoretically doesn't counter the spell and is not an answer. Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise are banned.
Yes, but I'm not sure if four is correct. You hardly want to play it turn one or two in this deck. BUG Is a tempo deck and has cheaper counters. BUG may have blue cards but it isn't a big blue deck in the sense of control. Hypothetically speaking since it isn't a deck in Modern to continue it has cheaper spells in Spell Pierce, Daze, and Force of Will versus Counterspell and Force of Will from a control deck leading to yes it will beat you early on.
You are down mana fighting over Ancestral, but as I said depending who has the most counters in the matchup. In this deck you shouldn't be playing less than nine. Which is two or more than what Twin did play when it was a deck and the same for Grixis and Delver. You win almost all counter fights after turn six.
Nahiri seems fine, but going out of your way to play Emrakuel seems bad. You don't want dead draws in a control deck. Putting Snapcaster Mage into play off Nahiri would be good enough. She has card filter and removal would be enough to justify testing her at least.
As far as Electrolyze, I have played four ever since GP Omaha (Dig and Treasure Cruise format) and haven't looked back. Less than three is wrong. Junk isn't seeing much play and is the only deck you feel bad drawing multiples against 50% of the time staring down double Rhino and Tasigur then the other 50% you want them staring at four Lingering Souls tokens. Every other deck you want to draw every copy and slap the floor with them.
Ancestral Visions V Sphinx's Revelation: You can't cut all Sphinx's Revelations. In blue mirrors Sphinx's Revelation is bait... You end step a Sphinx's, they counter, depending the situation and who has the most counters in their deck you can fight for it. At this point you are where you want to be whether it resolves or not. You untap and slam Keranos/Crucible/Ajani into play. Good game, you win. Ancestral is bad due to it being casted on your turn. You fight over it on your turn and they untap and do whatever they want. Sweet! You lose. I'm not saying you can't play it, but cutting all Sphinx's for four Ancestrals is wrong. Ancestral is nice against Tron, Eldrazi, and decks of those archetypes. So I would find a mix of both. Probably 3 Ancestrals 1 Sphinx or a 2-2.
List:
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Path to Exile
2x Lightning Helix
4x Electrolyze
1x Wrath of God
2x Supreme Verdict
Since Eldrazi got its banning I have reverted from playing:
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
1x Lightning Helix
2x Spell Snare
4x Mana Leak
2x Deprive
I see less of the Eldrazi and the need to kill a 4/4 or a 5/5 with haste on turn two or three is less likely. Porphyry Nodes shored that matchup pretty well. No idea why everyone complained it was so hard. Although it was very format warping. I'm definitely glad it is gone and it was holding other decks back.
[quote from="Phantom6879 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/220015-uwr-control?comment=4421"]Tron isn't that hard if you upgrade your Mana Leaks to Counterflux after sideboard and just play four Cryptic Commands along side three Tectonic Edges. Delver doesn't cast Treasure Cruise on turn three and Pod doesn't cast Pod on turn two. Just play three Cryptics and get over it. They can still go about their game plan after Sowing Salt. Plus it's narrow. If you think it doubles in the mirror you're wrong. You're not getting anywhere fast resolving a four mana sorcery too often. You can randomly steal games in the mirror with it, but your opponent can win without Colonnade if they know what they're doing. I've been playing this deck since before Braid and Shaman were a couple. Trust me.
Tron isn't that hard if you upgrade your Mana Leaks to Counterflux after sideboard and just play four Cryptic Commands along side three Tectonic Edges. Delver doesn't cast Treasure Cruise on turn three and Pod doesn't cast Pod on turn two. Just play three Cryptics and get over it. They can still go about their game plan after Sowing Salt. Plus it's narrow. If you think it doubles in the mirror you're wrong. You're not getting anywhere fast resolving a four mana sorcery too often. You can randomly steal games in the mirror with it, but your opponent can win without Colonnade if they know what they're doing. I've been playing this deck since before Braid and Shaman were a couple. Trust me.
The reason I play a one of Deprive is when I go into the late game Mana Leak becomes atrocious. I used to play three Electrolyze and three Cryptic Commands post banning. Since they are pretty bad in a format revolving around killing your opponent on turn four. Since the format has slows down I've gone back up to four of each. Four Cryptic Commands makes Scapeshift, Tron, and Bloom easier match ups. I never feel like two Sphinx's Revelations is too much. I do end up siding them out a lot though. Not because they are bad in the matchup, but because I have better cards and don't need them. Such as RG Tron won't be out drawing me so I ditch them. I can totally understand shaving one Cryptic, Electrolyze, and Revelation though.
My local shop metagame isn't good for main deck Keranos. I wish I could main deck him though. Keranos isn't ideal against, Boggles, Affinity, Scapeshift, Tron, Bloom, and Storm. He's alright against Tron and Bloom, but I'm never fist pumping when I cast him against them though. Lol
You were the one being like,"The guy running four Electrolyzes has bizarre thoughts and doesn't know what he is doing and saying Cryptic is bad against Tron" when clearly it is one of the better cards in the deck against Tron.
Can you tell me how you deal with Liliana of the Veil on turn twelve then? Assuming they didn't miss six land drops. Gregory Orange still plays four, Shaun McLaren played three last time, LSV played four in Omaha (where the format was faster). People still play four.
How isn't Electrolyze good against Abzan CoCo? They play a bunch of 2/2s and x/1s.
You have to literally try hard to die on turn four with this deck. Creature based decks just can't beat you before turn four with 14 removal spells plus sweepers.
Are you inbred or something?? Cryptic counters spells when they have seven excess mana to cast Karn where Mana Leak doesn't. Uhh... Last time I checked it bounces permanents... Lands are permanents.. Maybe watch Gregory Orange pilot the deck at his GP top8. I forgot which one, but just check it out Derpy.
Tarmogoyf chills on the table till I get to seven life or so then I play a sweeper or spot remove everything. Maybe learn to play the deck? Don't just shoot the first ten threats you see hit the table. I've been playing this deck since before you probly knew what Modern was. I've been playing since it was a format derived from Extended. At this point killing yourself might be the best option for a deck to pilot. Lmaoooo
Where do you not want four Electrolyzes?
You can't Mana Leak Liliana of the Veil on turn twelve either. Cryptic does everything you would want any card to do in your deck except actually win the game. Modern is a slow format again. Aside from infect, burn, Affinity, and Storm it is really slow. Cryptic is your ONLY out to Emrakuel when he is casted. Against Tron you are not the control deck. Cryptic breaks of the land assembly and deals with all their threats. You have early counters to deal with Karn coming on turn three. Snare breaks up Scrying and Mana Leak counters Karn.
Electrolyze is the best card against Affinity, opposing Planeswalkers, Infect, Tokens, Jund, Abzan Company. Those decks together are more than 60% of the meta.
Remand is also bad in your "Control deck" since it theoretically doesn't counter the spell and is not an answer. Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise are banned.
You are down mana fighting over Ancestral, but as I said depending who has the most counters in the matchup. In this deck you shouldn't be playing less than nine. Which is two or more than what Twin did play when it was a deck and the same for Grixis and Delver. You win almost all counter fights after turn six.
As far as Electrolyze, I have played four ever since GP Omaha (Dig and Treasure Cruise format) and haven't looked back. Less than three is wrong. Junk isn't seeing much play and is the only deck you feel bad drawing multiples against 50% of the time staring down double Rhino and Tasigur then the other 50% you want them staring at four Lingering Souls tokens. Every other deck you want to draw every copy and slap the floor with them.
Ancestral Visions V Sphinx's Revelation: You can't cut all Sphinx's Revelations. In blue mirrors Sphinx's Revelation is bait... You end step a Sphinx's, they counter, depending the situation and who has the most counters in their deck you can fight for it. At this point you are where you want to be whether it resolves or not. You untap and slam Keranos/Crucible/Ajani into play. Good game, you win. Ancestral is bad due to it being casted on your turn. You fight over it on your turn and they untap and do whatever they want. Sweet! You lose. I'm not saying you can't play it, but cutting all Sphinx's for four Ancestrals is wrong. Ancestral is nice against Tron, Eldrazi, and decks of those archetypes. So I would find a mix of both. Probably 3 Ancestrals 1 Sphinx or a 2-2.
List:
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Path to Exile
2x Lightning Helix
4x Electrolyze
1x Wrath of God
2x Supreme Verdict
3x Ancestral Vision
3x Spell Snare
3x Mana Leak
1x Deprive
4x Cryptic Command
1x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Ajani Vengeant
3x Tectonic Edge
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
2x Arid Mesa
2x Steam Vents
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Glacial Fortress
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
Since Eldrazi got its banning I have reverted from playing:
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
1x Lightning Helix
2x Spell Snare
4x Mana Leak
2x Deprive
I see less of the Eldrazi and the need to kill a 4/4 or a 5/5 with haste on turn two or three is less likely. Porphyry Nodes shored that matchup pretty well. No idea why everyone complained it was so hard. Although it was very format warping. I'm definitely glad it is gone and it was holding other decks back.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/gameinfo/gameplay/formats/modern[/quote
Are you trying to tell me Cruise and Pod are banned? I'm not a ****ass. I was being sarcastic... Lmfao
My local shop metagame isn't good for main deck Keranos. I wish I could main deck him though. Keranos isn't ideal against, Boggles, Affinity, Scapeshift, Tron, Bloom, and Storm. He's alright against Tron and Bloom, but I'm never fist pumping when I cast him against them though. Lol
MAIN BOARD:
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Path to Exile
2x Lightning Helix
4x Electrolyze
1x Wrath of God
2x Supreme Verdict
3x Spell Snare
3x Mana Leak
1x Deprive
4x Cryptic Command
1x Shadow of Doubt
2x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Ajani Vengeant
3x Tectonic Edge
4x Celestial Colonade
1x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
2x Arid Mesa
2x Steam Vents
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Sulfur Falls
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
SIDE BOARD:
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Negate
2x Porphyry Nodes
2x Stony Silence
1x Celestial Purge
2x Wear//Tear
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Counterflux
1x Wrath of God
1x Keranos, God of Storms