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  • posted a message on Unstable FAQAWASLFAQPAFTIDAWABIAJTBT (with a few unknown cards)
    Quote from Courier7 »
    Quote from urweak »

    I know that, that's not what my question is asking. Rosewater says there is a rule that ante cards can't enter non-ante games. My question is, where is this rule.


    Check section 407 of the Comprehensive Rules as well as sections 6.5 and 6.6 of the Tournament Rules. All cards which reference "ante" are banned in every official Constructed format, including Commander; Pauper and Frontier aren't "official" at this time (as far as I know) but I presume they are banned there, as well. (now that I think about it, none of the ante cards are legal in Modern, anyway, so by default they aren't legal for Frontier) If you and your friends want to ante cards, the way Magic was originally conceived, then feel free to do so but you need to be prepared for when you pick a card at random from your deck to place into ante and that card winds up being Underground Sea--that is a lot of money to bet on a game of Magic.


    Yeah, I've read the comp rules and all of 407. Nothing in it says you can't bring in a card with ante, that isn't being played for ante. From what I suspect, doing so, in an un-ante game, would just result in half the card working. Rosewater however says there is an actual rule that says ante cards cant enter non-ante games. That's the rule I am trying to track down, because I can't find it.

    As for the TR, since they are actually stated as being banned in Vintage and Legacy, that would mean the ante cards could be brought into a game with Spike, Tournament Grinder.


    However, Rosewater says,
    This list also includes all cards with the card type conspiracy, but they only work from the command zone, so really don't bother. This list would have included cards that mention ante, but there's a rule (even in silver-bordered games) that ante cards can't enter games that aren't for ante.

    So while conspiracy cards do show up in a similar way with the ante cards, the conspiracy cards just dont do anything. Where as the ante cards have some rule that doesnt allow them to enter non-ante games. That is what I am trying to find. That actual rule that says you can't bring them into a game.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Unstable FAQAWASLFAQPAFTIDAWABIAJTBT (with a few unknown cards)
    Quote from WizardMN »
    Quote from urweak »
    Quote from urweak »
    This list would have included cards that mention ante, but there's a rule (even in silver-bordered games) that ante cards can't enter games that aren't for ante.


    What game rule says this? I couldn't find it in the comp. rules.


    There is no specific rule, but the ante cards themselves specifically prohibit their use in decks for non-ante games, and they can't enter non-ante games.


    I guess that's where I don't understand. What actually says they can't enter non-ante games? All the cards say, are that they need to be removed from your deck, if the game is not being played for ante.

    For example Contract from Below says "Remove Contract from Below from your deck before playing if you're not playing for ante."
    http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=contract from below

    Does it maybe have something to do with Sideboard rulings? Because the card doesn't say anything about not being allowed in a SB, so you could use Ring of Ma'rûf and the same should be true for Spike, Tournament Grinder.
    The thing that ultimately dictates their legality is the same thing that defines the entire Un Card pool: Mark Rosewater. There may be something more formal, more concrete that explains this better but, frankly, we don't need anything better. If Mark says the sleeve is part of a card for things like Ol' Buzzbark then it is. If he says non-Ante cards can't enter the game, then they can't. Without a formalized set of rules, the best we have is what Wizards (and MaRo specifically) say they do. However, if you want to play this card and allow Ante cards, then just talk to your group to make sure they are fine with it and just do it. Just know that it against the "official" rules.


    I know that, that's not what my question is asking. Rosewater says there is a rule that ante cards can't enter non-ante games. My question is, where is this rule.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Unstable FAQAWASLFAQPAFTIDAWABIAJTBT (with a few unknown cards)
    Quote from urweak »
    This list would have included cards that mention ante, but there's a rule (even in silver-bordered games) that ante cards can't enter games that aren't for ante.


    What game rule says this? I couldn't find it in the comp. rules.


    There is no specific rule, but the ante cards themselves specifically prohibit their use in decks for non-ante games, and they can't enter non-ante games.


    I guess that's where I don't understand. What actually says they can't enter non-ante games? All the cards say, are that they need to be removed from your deck, if the game is not being played for ante.

    For example Contract from Below says "Remove Contract from Below from your deck before playing if you're not playing for ante."
    http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=contract from below

    Does it maybe have something to do with Sideboard rulings? Because the card doesn't say anything about not being allowed in a SB, so you could use Ring of Ma'rûf and the same should be true for Spike, Tournament Grinder.



    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Unstable FAQAWASLFAQPAFTIDAWABIAJTBT (with a few unknown cards)
    This list would have included cards that mention ante, but there's a rule (even in silver-bordered games) that ante cards can't enter games that aren't for ante.


    What game rule says this? I couldn't find it in the comp. rules.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Entirely Normal Armchair
    Quote from AntiPox »
    Quote from urweak »
    So if I am being attacked, and have priority, couldn't I just place this on the battlefield and activate it's ability before my opponent gained priority to bounce it?
    "During your turn..."

    Though I guess you could kill a party crasher that way.


    Opps, you are right. Overlooked the first bit of text of the card. I thought you could put it into play at instant speed (regardless of whos turn it is).
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Entirely Normal Armchair
    So if I am being attacked, and have priority, couldn't I just place this on the battlefield and activate it's ability before my opponent gained priority to bounce it?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Gift Horse Trick Jarret twitter
    Quote from desruprot »
    Trojan Horse I think its a reference to?


    That and the old saying, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth". So in other words, don't inspect your Trojan Horse to closely.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on ABU Dual Reprints
    Of course, WotC could create a "proxy list", cards which are ok to proxy when you go into a sanctioned tournament. Heck, let them make and sell those proxies themselves with green borders or something. They could use the magic online art and look to make sure they look truly different. That way, they can keep their promise of not reprinting the originals, but people can still play with them affordably.


    They did a long time ago. Those cards are worth a lot of money these days. They made two sets, the Collector Edition and International Edition. Both have square corners and gold boarder backs.

    https://m.ebay.com/itm/CE-Magic-the-Gathering-Beta-Collectors-Edition-Power-9-Set-Black-Lotus-Mox-Jet/142455062861?hash=item212afbc14d:g:aRcAAOSwAAVZbjU8#vi__app-cvip-panel
    Posted in: Speculation
  • posted a message on Unstable Name and Number Crunch (More or Less)
    Quote from Raptorchan »
    DM is a promo card, not Unstable card.


    Right, that's why I said what I said. Considering the way they are currently printed, they are equal to tip cards or tokens. That said, adding a silver boarder and putting a real MTG back on them could be done, allowing them to be in the set. Some people talked about it, because of DM's un-set-like abilities. But from todays spoilers, it seems that slim chance has been closed.

    Quote from void_nothing »
    Quote from Raptorchan »
    DM is a promo card, not Unstable card.

    Specifically a special, legal-nowhere promo card for a tiny select group of people. It has as much chance as being printed anywhere as 1996 World Champion does.


    The three Heroes of the Realm cards aren't actually Magic cards. The '96 World Champ card has the standard MTG back on it, whereas the HotR cards do not. The This is what the backs look like, https://mtg.gamepedia.com/media/mtg.gamepedia.com/e/eb/Heroes_of_the_Realm_card_back.jpg

    https://www.magiclibrarities.net/353-rarities-unique-cards-english-cards-index.html
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Unstable Name and Number Crunch (More or Less)
    So as it stands now, does this mean that there is no chance for Dungeon Master to be included in the set? Looking at things, it would seem that the spoiler of Dr. Julius Jumblemorph today, leaves no room for DM in the crunch.

    https://scryfall.com/card/htr/2
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Spike, Tournament Grinder - GatheringMagic Spoiler
    Quote from urweak »
    psycojosho asked: Can Spike, Tournament Grinder get ante cards?

    Ante no longer exists, so they aren’t usable.

    November 14, 2017 55 notes
    http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/167488477193/can-spike-tournament-grinder-get-ante-cards

    Can someone clarify this for me. From the reply it sounds like the cards aren't unusable since Ante doesn't "exist", or in other words the cards are still tutorable but will do nothing. For example, Darkpact does basically nothing in a game that isn't being played for Ante. But regardless of that, Ante cards are still banned in Vintage. The Vintage B&R list actually names Ante cards in it. So since they are banned from a format, you can still tutor for them.

    Also, the Comp. Rules still talk about Ante cards. Unless I am misunderstanding something, Ante still exists.
    407.1. Earlier versions of the Magic rules included an ante rule as a way of playing “for keeps.” Playing Magic games for ante is now considered an optional variation on the game, and it’s allowed only where it’s not forbidden by law or by other rules. Playing for ante is strictly forbidden under the Magic: The Gathering Tournament Rules (WPN.Wizards.com/en/resources/rules-documents).
    Its optional, like UN-cards. Its forbidden but its not banned/restricted. If you and your friend(s) enable Ante for instance in your kitchen table games, none of the Ante cards are banned/restricted and so Spike can't fetch those cards.


    They Ante cards are banned in Vintage. So you can fetch them. But the ante part of the card doesn't work.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Spike, Tournament Grinder - GatheringMagic Spoiler
    Quote from Legend »
    Are Conspiracies also on the menu?

    Or are they just a nobo anyways?
    Conspiracies are usable if in a limited environment, but not in a constructed one. Spike can't grab whats not banned/restricted such as a conspiracy.


    Like the Ante cards, they are named under the Vintage B&R list.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Spike, Tournament Grinder - GatheringMagic Spoiler
    psycojosho asked: Can Spike, Tournament Grinder get ante cards?

    Ante no longer exists, so they aren’t usable.

    November 14, 2017 55 notes
    http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/167488477193/can-spike-tournament-grinder-get-ante-cards

    Can someone clarify this for me. From the reply it sounds like the cards aren't unusable since Ante doesn't "exist", or in other words the cards are still tutorable but will do nothing. For example, Darkpact does basically nothing in a game that isn't being played for Ante. But regardless of that, Ante cards are still banned in Vintage. The Vintage B&R list actually names Ante cards in it. So since they are banned from a format, you can still tutor for them.

    Also, the Comp. Rules still talk about Ante cards. Unless I am misunderstanding something, Ante still exists.
    407.1. Earlier versions of the Magic rules included an ante rule as a way of playing “for keeps.” Playing Magic games for ante is now considered an optional variation on the game, and it’s allowed only where it’s not forbidden by law or by other rules. Playing for ante is strictly forbidden under the Magic: The Gathering Tournament Rules (WPN.Wizards.com/en/resources/rules-documents).
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Spike, Tournament Grinder - GatheringMagic Spoiler
    So this let's you grab any Un-set card since they are banned in constructed, short of un-block or something like that.

    Also, grabbing Contract from Below is great. Since you ignore the ante, you just discard and draw 7.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Un-Set 3 Unstable
    Quote from calculon »
    Quote from Havrekjex »
    Quote from urweak »
    Quote from BB84Prez »
    I just need someone to clarify one thing for me. Can reserve list cards be printed with silver borders and not violate their policy since they are not tournament legal? They would be glorifed proxies at a kitchen table matchup

    I'm excited about this Un-set mainly because of draft design compared to previous Un-sets.


    Back in the early 2000's they printed various reserve list cards with gold boarders. Before that, they printed all the Power 9 and Dual lands with gold boarders on the back of the card (along with "Collectors/International Edition" on the back and square corners). Years later they printed reserved list cards under a loophole that allowed them to print the cards as Judge promos and other specialty products. However, this loophole was closed a number of years ago.

    But, I don't know if the closing of the loophole for promo cards effects the printing of non-tournament legal cards. Because the first two examples were the printing of non-tournament legal cards, the judge promos on the other hand were legal for tournament play.

    Long story short, I think they can still print cards in gold/silver boarders that are on the reserved list.

    Here's one of the gold boardered reserved list cards.
    My guess is that they technically can, but they don´t want to because it probably feels too close for comfort, and they don´t want to risk causing an uproar and then have to backpedal again like they did with the FTV and promo cards. The reserved list is a topic they´d rather not bring up, and printing proxies of reserved list cards does exactly that.

    That said, I wish they would, because 15-proxy Vintage is a thing where I live, and having official, easily identifiable, widely available proxies would be very cool to avoid sharpied card backs and terrible inkjet inserts.

    Maro answered this on his blog:

    about9spiders asked: Would a silver-border reprinting ala Un3 allow reserved list cards? Or even say, a card sticker in un packs of famous cards?

    Maro: Nope.

    http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/147555860173/would-a-silver-border-reprinting-ala-un3-allow

    Y'all should get used to the fact that the reserved list is going to stay. And I'm pretty sure that even if there was some loop hole, they wouldn't use it.


    We aren't talking about removing it, so there's nothing to get used to. While it would seem that different boarder cards don't violate the RL, they do violate the spirit of it.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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