I've had moderately favorable experiences against Grixis. I actually like the Khenra's against them since they get in early damage.
The Grixis manabase isn't great. If you just aggressively try and curve out every game, they will occasionally stumble.
Basically, try and put them in this position: use your mana removing threats or nullifying them or lose. Jadelight Ranger, Rhonas, Phoenix, and co. all serve this end. They run 4x Vraska's Contempt, which is a lot, but you have sooo many threats that need to be contempted.
While I generally agree with this, those decks have moved to much more controlling versions, where your 2 and 3 drops are magma sprayed on curve, and every 4 and 5 drop meets a vraska's contempt if you manage to squeak them through the essence scatters they are holding up. I feel this matchup has gotten substantially worse., but could get better when grixis is forced to adapt to beat some other deck although there isn't much room for the meta to shift before we see the next block, I don't think this standard will really be solved.
So a couple weeks ago o posted a list and needed up scrubbing out with it that week, the deck was fine I had just failed to execute a few lines of play properly and that was that. That being said I sleeved up the following list and placed 3rd-4th at a pptq this weekend.
This is almost a card for card list of the r/g monsters deck that was in the magic online lists last Thursday. I was struggling with some card selections before seeing it and teetering towards the naya version to help deal with all of the Scarab Gods running rampant. I also realized how abysmal our grixis matchup is, and khenras don't really shine there. I wanted to try to go over the top of them, and ramping into turn 3 chandra/Phoenix, turn 4 gloeybringer, turn 5 carnage tyrant seemed incredibly strong, and proved to be so. I have some thoughts going forward on the deck but will give a brief report first.
Round 1 U/B midrange 2-1
Game 1 I was on the play and curved servant into Phoenix and glorybringer, ran away with the game and the only spell op cast was a commit.
(I don't recall every sideboard swap I made that day so I will just give very general descriptions or my games)
For game 2 I had put him on control, which I believe is reasonable as I saw none of the midrange creatures. As such I boarded out the majority of my removal keeping only an Abrade or 2 and my struggles. He ran away with siphoned and champions eventually in a very close game
Game 3 he started to run away again but I was able to stabilize the game state with a scavanger and a Carnage Tyrant followed up by a couple removal spells and fliers to finish the game off.
This was a tight match, though I do feel slightly favored against the blue black decks, it's the red ones we have a really tough time with
Round 2 Sultai constrictor 2-0
This is a tough one to navigate and I was dangerously close to losing both games as the hadana's climb(s) flipped incredibly fast both games. Game one he played a climb followed by a turn 4 hydra, swung in for a ton and I decided I had to race, but the only thing that saved me was dropping subsequent fliers the following turns. Same thing in game 2, only we had a ridiculous board state and I wasn't able to make a push until I had 3 Phoenix, a tyrant, some number of merfolk, a gloeybringer, and a very active Chandra in play.
Enchantment removal is almost useless here but you have to bring it in, field of ruin would be much better though. This match has to be played very tight and I will say I have been underestimating this deck.
Round 3 Grixis Mid 0-2
Game one he answered most of my threats 1 for 1, played a Scarab God on curve, I struggled and survived the SG but he cast another one turn 6 and took over the game.
Game I managed to stick a Chandra and the game got a little Grundy until the Scarab assault began. I struggle//survived 2 in a row and he cast a third one, lights out.
This match sucks, I didn't manage to see any of the good cards I wanted here at all, I feel like tyrant has to come down here early on, also a blossoming defense would have been great, I did board them in just didn't see them, nor did I see a scavenger to deal with his gy.
Round 4 u/r GPG 2-1
Game one I ended up in an odd position where I had to hold up Abrade and couldn't deploy any threats or deal with the value creatures so they just built up and I lost to small creature damage.
Game 2 I curved out with threats and removal eating up his GY with a Scavanger along the way for a win.
Game 3 got into a grind and had to hold up Abrade for a few turns, but luckily I was able to run out a few creatures first and finished the game in the air.
This could be a weird game to play out because they can win out of nowhere, hence the reason to hold up Abrade. I think it's correct to never Abrade the throne and just wait for the gift itself. 8+ artifact removal spells post board should swing this one our way most of the time.
Round 5 ID
Top 8 UB Control 2-0
I started off with a mull to 5 on the draw but was able to curve out and win anyways.
Game 2 I kept an explosive seven and dropped the unstoppable curve.
Top 4 grixis Mid 0-2
Same opponent I lost to in the Swiss.
Game 1 I got stuck on 3 lands and was out valued quickly.
Game 2 mulled to 5, got stuck on 3 lands again and was able to stick things out to about turn 9 and thought I still had a chance to turn it around when I had, i believe a Phoenix in play on an empty board, I was at around 3 love but OP topped a gearhulk to flashback a contempt. I was disappointed that the non games happened, you dont want to lose like that in the top 4 and this deck usually mulligans and draws fairly well, but nobody is immune to variance and i feel that i played both games correctly. I hope he won out his last match, as I took off to start my hour and a half drive home.
It was a good run and I can't complain. My biggest concern going forward is the grixis matchup and I wouldn't mind finding an edge there somehow. One thing I do have in mind is dropping ballista. This is not a clear call though. I did side it out almost every round, and the only 2 games I even cast it in were the 2 game 1's of my grixis matchups. Despite plunging a thopters or 2 they were really lackluster there, but that isn't really even a matchup I wanted it for to begin with. I loved the idea to begin with, as we can end up never missing land drops in most games and it's a nice mana sink in the late game while being a good early play against mono red. I do think for now though I would drop them, move the 2 Blossoming Defense to the main, and fill that flex spot in the side for something, anything to help fight grixis. I only cast 1 blossoming defense all day, but I had drawn exactly that 1, and there were a few times I really wished to see a copy in my hand.
Anyhow I'm going to get ready for another pptq next week. I'm on the fence about running this back with some small tweaks or just playing grixis myself. I do feel it's correct to either be able to beat that deck or play the better version of it yourself. I think mono red is going to be on the rise soon as well and that is also something to consider.
So I ran a similar list to the gp winner's over the weekend and was uncontested in some local tournaments. The only changes were -pia +brontodon in the main, and my sideboard was 1 struggle, 1 magma spray, 2 defeat, 2 naturalize, 2 deathgorge scavanger, 3 chandra, 2 carnage tyrant, 2 hour of devastation.
I basically went off of some 5-0 lists and just tuned it slightly for what I knew The meta would be. I would like to possibly run this in an invitational this weekend in an unknown (to me) meta but these usually play out similar to pptqs with little to no nonsense. So my question is should I just run with the gp list? I do have personal bias when it comes to a few choices but sometimes that gets me in trouble.
For one, I tend to value naturalize over brontodon in a deck like this, we have no way of recurring value from it, but I feel fine with it in the main as its flexible in game 1 where enchantment removal can steal a game or 2. I prefer my sideboard to be streamlined, and 2 mana disenchant is more efficient than at 4.
Is it wrong to drop the pia? I don't feel it's great as a one of. I see the value of stalling against red, but it doesn't seem to be doing much here other than that and if that's all it is doing I don't want to rely on drawing a one of. Another option I see here is maindecking 2 scavangers over pia and the 3rd resilient khenra . Gaining 2 and not having to deal with an eternalized khenra is fine, even if it eats an abrade or lightning strike we still get value and there aren't many matches that we lose much by playing i. The 3 drop spot is the lightest in the deck. But perhaps dropping to 2 resilient khenra is just wrong.
Hour of dev vs. Archers. This is one in in the dark about. Games I brought in hour I never saw it so I'm not sure how I feel about it. I get the archers probably get through the first few turns but when mono red boards into big red it seems lackluster to me, maybe I'm just wrong and I will say my mono red games were close. If my hours were archers I still wouldn't have drawn them so I'll never know if they would have helped but drawing an hour in a few spots sure would have made life a little easier. Until they just topdecked another hazoret, it's just semantics at this point anyhow and the true key for any deck to beat mono red is to just win the die roll and answer whatever threats you can without getting rolled.
I always tend to value the 3rd chandra in any deck I am playing her in. That's possibly a mistake here I guess but when I board them in it usually means it's a match I need to see it in. I have stolen so many games with an unanswered Chandra it's hard to imagine shaving one.
That leads me to the only real problem I have with it, blossoming defense. When I played the deck it was so proactive I feel like picking a fight with defense is a bit out of place. I will admit I did not watch the GP and I certainly did not win it so my ramblings and critiques mean little. But most of the creatures are already set up to be 2 for 1's. I'm sure defense can win some games but against control I feel like I would almost rather play a Bestiary in the spot. We don't have any particularly crucial creatures to protect like a hostage taker, and something like bestiary creates value the entire time it's in play.
Anyways like I said I didn't win a GP or pptq or even 5-0 a league with the deck so my thoughts can be taken with a grain of salt. I'm just looking to promote some discussion to next level this thing and maybe get a W with it. The deck will likely get a little more respect than it has been lately, but I think it's hard to hate out a deck that really just relies on playing a sweet curve.
Has anyone been brewing with GPG? I have only seen mentions of it here and there, a list or 2 on star city, and there have been a few 5-0 lists from MTGO. I feel like this deck is a very strong contender going forward and I have been testing a sweet esper version that I hae been liking a lot I am just a little leary of my mana base. My list is admittedly greedy as I have gone into black for Dusk Legion Zealot, Chupacabra, Fatal Push, Scarab God, and possibly Vraska's contempt in the board. All while wanting to cast Fumigates and settle the wreckage. Honestly I have tested a good 50 games or so and have only had mana problems occur twice, but when it did happen I just wasn't playing magic. Variance happens, but I feel like I am opening myself up to more consistent issues with the number of potentially tapped lands I am playing. Maybe I am putting too much stock into actually casting Chupacabras and should cut a few fetid pools for basics? But I feel like there are times where I want to cast them for sure, and going into a week one meta I know I don't want to leave home without a few board wipes as I know I will see a ton of aggro. I also am unsure if I want to main fatal push, it seems to be un-necessary a lot of the time as I am mainboarding 2 Fumigates, but once in a while I find myself doing nothing for the first 4 turns and I end up dead. That may just be a concession of playing the deck, after I started running the pushes they didn't seem to be really helping that much, as if I actually needed them I was not in a situation that I was actively playing towards getting the gameplan online, I was just durdling and dying, and push was just delaying it a turn, I am going to test with a 3rd Fumigate in the main and maybe put the pushes in the board. I will post a full list later, but my mana base looks like:
15B 20B 16W, This has been enabling me to cast double w, double b on curve with careful sequencing, but I would really like to run more basics somehow. I do need to cast dusk legion zealot from hand, but am I putting too much stock in casting Chupacabra from hand and should I be focusing more on just goldfishing to the combo most of the time? And should I just get off of Push and lean more on Fumigte/settle? I will also note, I am playing refurbish/chart/strat planning plan and not the gate to the afterlife plan as I find the refurbish plan just more efficient. Any input is appreciated. The list I have been playing has been a house against other midrange and slower aggro decks (ie: slower than rdw)
Players upset at the bannings should consider the health of the format before their own dollar.
This is an extremely inadequate argument, and this mindset is bad for the game. The health of the format does not rest on the shoulders of the game's consumer, but rather its creators. When said creators fail to balance their premier format it hurts everyone who plays the game in many ways, one of which costing us money to stay competitive in their game after they have failed to create a stable environment and the only fix they can seem to come up with is to hit the nuke button. Look at it however you will, these bannings have hurt the game over all, and if they continue will eventually crush whatever is left of consumer confidence resulting in a negative outcome for the game. Instead of pointing the finger at players to accept Wizards' folly, perhaps you should instead want to be pressuring the company making the game you are playing to take measures to avoid the need for bans to take place in a rotating format. I'm not saying that it wasn't needed, nor do I believe it was indeed needed that isn't my point. Some of us have lost to multiple bans stretching over the last year, and it is very frustrating. I know for me, if even one of my couple modern decks gets hit next month I am probably done, I will likely find some other interest to involve myself in until wizards can straighten out their act.
I think he is fine. He was played as a one of for a while during the Hour of Devastation standard season, was good at breaking mirrors. Its probably fine to run 1 but there are probably other things you can be doing that are just as good or better without having to worry about his downside.
I bring them in against the Mirror (I run a stock list), 4c, sultai, and anything running The Scarab God and occasionally there's someone trying to jam Carnage Tyrant. Generally any deck that runs creatures as good as or better than yours and/or evasive threats. I have maindecked a copy in the past, as it can be your 4th (or 5th) hydra, or 5th glorybringer, refiner etc. You are looking to copy any problematic creature they may play or your own for value, copying glorybringers also wins games. Its really a situational decision on what to copy.
3 shaper sancturay : ???? really....... are you serious, this card is only good in opening hand, in late game its a dead card. Sorry man there is way better card than this for temur Energy
Again, I am testing, so yes I am very serious. Cards like this have potential to take over a game, and I have been testing it, I have cut it because it has underperformed in the couple matches I have actually been able to use it, and I think a couple spell pierce will out value it for now. You can mock it now, but mark my words, you will see this card played at some point during its time in standard, but its going to be at its best against control decks utilizing a lot of spot removal. I thought maybe it could help in grindy matches and mirrors but it seems to be too easily played around for now and I could be wrong about that. And no kidding its a bad top deck, that's why you run 3 in the board, you want to make sure you see it early.
How would an opponent play around a relatively early Shapers' sanctuary? Are they going to not use removal on our creatures somehow? I think the card shows great potential. It seems to me however, either you get the card at the right moment (early game) or don't. I believe it's possible to play around, just curious how it would happen.
Edit: I'm so stoked people are posting more lists and getting some discussion going! I was really wanting to see some new lists for a while now. Anyone playing straight r/g still or sticking to a 3rd color splash at the least?
Also, Hostage taker! Is this a secret answer to Hazoret? (Or an obvious one that I'm missing?)
The problem I had with Sanctuary was that the games I sided it in and had it early on enough I was not able to apply proper pressure, and this was in midrange matches. If you run into a board stall your opponent can just sit back and progress their own board as removing your creatures can become the worse line. When they can just trade in combat they aren't going to give you free cards. My sample size is relatively small in a small number of games played with it so is probably not solid and I'm not completely off the card. Maybe in those games had I been able to draw into more removal I could have cleared the board and forced more interaction. I'm going to try testing more with it today as I think there is still potential, but I do think its going to be more useful in control matches that utilize a lot of spot removal and I don't think the time for that is now. I'm sure at some point these are going to make it into my SB. In games like the one I mentioned Ripjaw would have been better as I could have applied some pressure and forced decisions as you can only allow yourself to be hit for 4 so many times.
I have play plenty of time with this deck against various deck.
4x spell pierce is necessary for the following reason. U/W control, 4 negate is not enough. They can dig faster than you. the first one might catch them by surprise, but they are ready for the second one. It doesnt matter for them casting second sun with negate backup. I have see that a lot of time. Are you gonna negate the fumigate/settle?? i guess not, because if you do better be ready for that second cast of second sun for GG. With 8 counter we have enough to deal with mass removal + second sun.
RDW and B/R aggro. You dont get whirler everyggame, i know he is the best creature against them, but without him you usually stabilize at around 7-9 life. Then their god appear and ping you 2 dmg every turn. Usually you have 2-3 turn max to kill them before they do without lifelink we usually dies even if we stabilize the board. We have 0 way to deal with their god except confication coup, but this card is awful against them. So we need some life badly. I have play so many time with aethersphere and it usually die 80% of the time before it did some lifelink, because of abrade every rdw and B/R usually play 4 copies of.
With the cartouche RDW cant do ***** if it stick on a cub (with enough energy to survive some burn) of even better an Hydra + it kill their creature and grant you a +1/+1 bonus life on your creature. For now its the best option available for life hands down.
Skysovereign: How can this be good against rdw or B/R aggro. Usually on turn 5 you are at 7-9 life and your board is stabilize. Does it kill their god: No, does it get you life: no, does it kill on of their creature : yes, does it matter at this time: no. Because you already have control now. So what you do next turn you attack....and then response : Abrade + 2 dmg for the face from god. Next turn you start attacking do some dmg, next turn your dead. What did soveriegn did?? well guess what nothing. I play one main, and usually its the first card i side out the majority of time
Shaper santuary : like i said this card is bad...really bad.....you will realize it soon enough
Ripjaw Raptor : it might see some play against RDW and mirror/dino but thats about it. All deck with a splash of white or black doesnt care.
If you are leaning on 4 spell pierce to beat approach I think you're playing the matchup wrong. Spell pierce is a tempo play that allows you to keep your board alive against a boardwipe to apply enough pressure before they hit approach. In the last format negating Fumigate on 5 was usually good enough to finish the game, that gets a little more complicated with Wrath to Exile in the format and that is where spell pierce comes in. Its an extra out to play to, not a way to win the game. 4 of them is going to feel bad, especially after they play around it.
I have had zero problems with consistency against RDW without lifegain. I don't want a card like cartouch that I am ONLY bringing in that game. We have access to so much removal and ways to clog the board that it shouldn't be needed. Why are you keeping cubs in against RDW? Even on the play you aren't going to be pressuring them, you should be playing a control role at that point with your cheap removal. If you play cub its not going to block, and most likely is going to turn on their removal. The only creatures I would want to play it on would be Hydra or glorybringer. I can see that being good, but very narrow. I'm not saying its terrible in that matchup, but its the only one you will want it in and there are just other things you can/should be doing to win that game. Confiscation coup is not terrible there either, stealing their Hazoret is fine and its the only out we have to it. If I have to play 9 rounds against mono red sure I will pack some cartouch(s), but its not really what I want to be doing.
Skysovereign is a house against both of those decks. I know because I have played it against them, does it eat an abrade sometimes yes. Most of the time, no because they already ate their abrade on another creature. You say you have 3 turns to win against RDW most of the time, you realize Skysoverign does 18 damage over 3 turns (more with Rhonas pumps) and does gain you life by removing a threat each time. Sometimes you are going to be hit with a tempo loss and lose the game, that's magic. But the boat is something they have to answer, if they don't it doesn't just sit there staring them in the face. Its also good in mirrors and other mid-range games as it can block glorybringer and or break stalemates.
Sanctuary is not a bad card, it is going to take a certain meta for it to thrive though. That day will come...you'll see.
Ripjaw is value against any creature deck. A deck splashing black or white will care if they are creature decks. Temur is threat dense, if they are an aggro or midrange deck they will only have so much spot removal. If they destroy my Raptor, I will probably land a glorybringer sometime soon that they won't have removal for, or better yet they exiled my raptor instead of my Scarab God later? I'll take that. Its probably either raptor or Blasting Cannon in that spot, and for a deck like this I like to be able to overload on threats that have upside. Obviously you aren't bringing raptors in against UW approach.
I like what @WhiteCobra3 is saying about the black cartouche. Usually landing one is lights out for RR, so having 3 in the SB will helps you immensely G2 and G3. That's what is pushing me to a black splash. For spell pierce, 2 should be enough in the SB. 4 is too much. You still want action and be able to pressure. Ideally we want 8 cards for control in the SB, siding out all the red removals. I'm boarding in 4 negate, 2 spell pierce and 2 Nissa, Vital force. She will ping 5 damages per turn and she does not care about settle the wreckage nor Fumigate. What do you guys think about her ?
I see that you guys are having arguments about Skysovereign. Is it good or not in the meta ? My guess is that it's good against the mirror, RDW and even Dino. It will kill most of the support dino and the tokens, Whirler virtuoso, Rogue refiner and any red creatures. What's also important is the 6/5 body that can attack through glorybringer and helps you close the game really fast. I'm conflicted between the boat and other great 5CMC like Confiscation Coup. THe boat is great at closing the game. Yes abrade is in the format. It's true that most of the MTGO 5-0 lists featured 1 maindeck.
Nissa is a fine card and I have it on my list of cards I want to work into the SB.
This is the list I have been working on. The main is pretty set for me as its almost the same list I have been running I have just made the switch to Scarab God. I would like one more green source though. The sideboard isn't set in stone either, I wouldn't mind a spell pierce or 2.
I like it, but I´ve made other list with 2 Hostage Taker , 1 less Hydra, 1 less Glorybringer , 1 less virtuoso and without Abrade. I add 2 chandras too.
3 longtusk cub: ??? This is one of the best card in our deck, its the besr racing card, you need 4 minimum
2 magma spray/2 abrade: this really depend on the meta, if you think mardu vehicule is going to be popular i suggest Abrade, magma spray good against RDW and RB aggro
Sideboard:
2 skysovereign : ??? not sure this card is really good in the present meta, you are going to side in vs what? Control?? no (negate come in), RDW (nope way too slow), Dino (doesnt do *****), mirror (cant deal with cub/hydra/glorybringer), Abrade so popular.... this card need to go
2 ripjaw raptor : only good against RDW , and vs them we need life, raptor doesnt bring life, against all other deck its suck, even against mirror 4/5 against cub and hydra its worthless
3 shaper sancturay : ???? really....... are you serious, this card is only good in opening hand, in late game its a dead card. Sorry man there is way better card than this for temur Energy
Here is my upgraded sideboard list for the next week
4x negate = any temur player should pay 4 of them automatic, non negotiable, its the best sideboard card hands down
4x spell pierce = Meta calls it, Dispel is rotating. U/W control will be there and you need lots lots of counter for fumigate/settle the wreckage/second sun. Those 11-12 card are simply the best card available on standard that wreck our deck in half. Usually if more than 2-3 card of those resolve its GG, simple as that
3x cartouche of ambition = Yes my friend yes, we all forgot about that card. This is the best answerd against RWD Hands down, aethersphere is a nogo, rdw usually play 3-4 copies of abrade, so our vehicule is worthless, against RB its a little bit less efficient because of unliscensed disitegration. So be careful to play around it, usually cast it on your hydra with backup hexproof and you are good to go. Red/Black cant deal with enchantment except via discard, and usually they dont bring duress against us.
2x confiscation coop = Meta call here, good against Mirror,Dino and god pharraon gift deck thats about it, useless agains aggro and control
2x vraska = Ok let me tell you something....this card is underated big time. It is really good that good let me show you a few exemple:
U/W control play cast out on my glorybringer in my attack phase before dmg. Now its my turn i play vraska destroy the cast out proceed to attack with my dragon for 4 dmg. opponent take 4. Next turn he is all excited show me is second sun for the win because he see im tapout because of vraska proceed to cast for victory then in response i crack my treasure for a blue and then proceed to cast spell pierce. this is my friend the best feeling ever. Then i proceed to lethal the next turn.
Dont forget vraska give a tresure perfect for spell pirce backup. PLus she is goos against control a steady pressure with pirate, ultimate is so easy to reach. And dealing one dmg is really simple with scarab god ability on upkeep
She can destroy ripjaw raptor without a swet, god pharraon gift all those hard to deal enchantment like procession etc. The only time she is bad is against aggro and tempo deck.
First an update to the sideboard
-3 Shaper's Sanctuary
+1 Ripjaw Raptor
+2 Spell Pierce
* This is a list in progress, if there is a card there that seems out of place maybe its because I'm, you know, testing it........
2 skysovereign : ??? not sure this card is really good in the present meta, you are going to side in vs what? Control?? no (negate come in), RDW (nope way too slow), Dino (doesnt do *****), mirror (cant deal with cub/hydra/glorybringer), Abrade so popular.... this card need to go
Skysovereign is an absolute house in most matches, I know this from playing the deck for the past 2 months. Most lists I have been seeing, including the one that 5-0 on MTGO yesterday ran 1 in the main. The main board is tight, so I pushed mine to the board, and the only match that I ever used to side them out was against control, I fail to see how its bad against the meta, sure you side it out against approach, show me where its bad and why.
2 ripjaw raptor : only good against RDW , and vs them we need life, raptor doesnt bring life, against all other deck its suck, even against mirror 4/5 against cub and hydra its worthless
Ripjaw is probably one of the best new cards we get. Its a decent replacement for tireless tracker, which was a card boarded in almost every game, except against red decks. I don't think you are evaluating this card properly, its a 4/5 for 4 that draws you cards, its for grindy matches and in testing it has performed well. You could say that there are other cards that need to be pushed into the sideboard, and that would be acceptable, but this card isn't as worthless as you think. It's not there for RDW either, maybe you side it in there sure, but it comes in any grindy matchup and does work. You're opponent either plays around it, value, or kills it for card/s, value.
3 shaper sancturay : ???? really....... are you serious, this card is only good in opening hand, in late game its a dead card. Sorry man there is way better card than this for temur Energy
Again, I am testing, so yes I am very serious. Cards like this have potential to take over a game, and I have been testing it, I have cut it because it has underperformed in the couple matches I have actually been able to use it, and I think a couple spell pierce will out value it for now. You can mock it now, but mark my words, you will see this card played at some point during its time in standard, but its going to be at its best against control decks utilizing a lot of spot removal. I thought maybe it could help in grindy matches and mirrors but it seems to be too easily played around for now and I could be wrong about that. And no kidding its a bad top deck, that's why you run 3 in the board, you want to make sure you see it early.
3 longtusk cub: ??? This is one of the best card in our deck, its the besr racing card, you need 4 minimum
Its one of out only cards that doesn't 2 for 1. I have been playing 3 for a month since I added a Rhonas. Yes sometimes you get to race with it, most of the time that doesn't happen and there was a time it wasn't even played in the deck. If I didn't feel 4 whirlers were needed I would cut one for a cub. however virtuoso is key in RDW games, and is more essential that sideboard lifegain cards that set you up to be 2 for 1'd.
2 magma spray/2 abrade: this really depend on the meta, if you think mardu vehicule is going to be popular i suggest Abrade, magma spray good against RDW and RB aggro
Brad Nelson disagrees with you. So do I, even if Mardu is prevalent magma spray answers all of their non artifact creatures for 1 red, and exiles scrapheap scrounger. Ever magma spray a Champion of Wits? Feels pretty good. Even in most bad games that you side them out there will be a target, and keeps them maindeckable.
You realize this is a midrange deck right, that should have a variety of answers and out to hedge against the majority of the field?
4 spell pierce is probably very likely to be very wrong.
I don't like the cartouch, I can see it as a 2 of in the board but I prefer to keep myself out of burn range by clogging the board against RDW, and clocking them with big creatures that double as removal, Glorybringer, Skysoverign.
This is the list I have been working on. The main is pretty set for me as its almost the same list I have been running I have just made the switch to Scarab God. I would like one more green source though. The sideboard isn't set in stone either, I wouldn't mind a spell pierce or 2.
I like it, but I´ve made other list with 2 Hostage Taker , 1 less Hydra, 1 less Glorybringer , 1 less virtuoso and without Abrade. I add 2 chandras too.
I like Hostage Taker and its definitely the kind of card we want to play. I have thought about playing it as well, it would probably take virtuoso becoming somewhat unneeded for me to shift that way but I don't think you're wrong at all and it seems solid. I'm not sure I would go abrade-less, I feel like that 75 wants the full 4 for now. Chandra is fine as well. I value the 4th Hydra and Glorybringer over her currently but I think Chandra is just a matter of personal preference as its a great card.
This is the list I have been working on. The main is pretty set for me as its almost the same list I have been running I have just made the switch to Scarab God. I would like one more green source though. The sideboard isn't set in stone either, I wouldn't mind a spell pierce or 2.
Hmm ya I forgot what block Dispel was in. Spell pierce is probably more playable than most are thinking though and negate is already the go to. I'm still not 100% convinced Approach is so terrible. I was beating it in Amonket standard, and I know it got some new toys but I remain optimistic. I have an event this weekend coming up that I will be testing heavily for starting today and approach will be my first trial. Even if the matchup is abysmal I think its unlikely that the deck becomes an oppressive force that shuts down the meta. I still think temur is the deck to play week one and I'll stick to that. If approach does get too big like someone else said GB should make a comeback. It beats RRed, and should be fast enough to go well under approach if tuned for it. If approach checks temur and other midrange decks, RRed should check approach, GB checks RRed(maybe), and its still week zero so we should have some number of unknown variables, then we may be in for a rather healthy standard environment. That sounds good to me, I won't have to play the same deck every week anymore.
While I generally agree with this, those decks have moved to much more controlling versions, where your 2 and 3 drops are magma sprayed on curve, and every 4 and 5 drop meets a vraska's contempt if you manage to squeak them through the essence scatters they are holding up. I feel this matchup has gotten substantially worse., but could get better when grixis is forced to adapt to beat some other deck although there isn't much room for the meta to shift before we see the next block, I don't think this standard will really be solved.
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Jadelight Ranger
4 Rekindling Pheonix
4 Gloeybringer
2 Carnage Tyrant
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Abrade
3 Struggle//Survive
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Sheltered Thicket
2 Hashep Oasis
7 Forest
8 Mountain
1 Carnage Tyrant
2 Deathgorge Scavanger
2 Atzocan Archer
2 Naturalize
2 Blossoming Defense
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Magma Spray
2 Chandra's Defeat
1 Walking Ballista
This is almost a card for card list of the r/g monsters deck that was in the magic online lists last Thursday. I was struggling with some card selections before seeing it and teetering towards the naya version to help deal with all of the Scarab Gods running rampant. I also realized how abysmal our grixis matchup is, and khenras don't really shine there. I wanted to try to go over the top of them, and ramping into turn 3 chandra/Phoenix, turn 4 gloeybringer, turn 5 carnage tyrant seemed incredibly strong, and proved to be so. I have some thoughts going forward on the deck but will give a brief report first.
Round 1 U/B midrange 2-1
Game 1 I was on the play and curved servant into Phoenix and glorybringer, ran away with the game and the only spell op cast was a commit.
(I don't recall every sideboard swap I made that day so I will just give very general descriptions or my games)
For game 2 I had put him on control, which I believe is reasonable as I saw none of the midrange creatures. As such I boarded out the majority of my removal keeping only an Abrade or 2 and my struggles. He ran away with siphoned and champions eventually in a very close game
Game 3 he started to run away again but I was able to stabilize the game state with a scavanger and a Carnage Tyrant followed up by a couple removal spells and fliers to finish the game off.
This was a tight match, though I do feel slightly favored against the blue black decks, it's the red ones we have a really tough time with
Round 2 Sultai constrictor 2-0
This is a tough one to navigate and I was dangerously close to losing both games as the hadana's climb(s) flipped incredibly fast both games. Game one he played a climb followed by a turn 4 hydra, swung in for a ton and I decided I had to race, but the only thing that saved me was dropping subsequent fliers the following turns. Same thing in game 2, only we had a ridiculous board state and I wasn't able to make a push until I had 3 Phoenix, a tyrant, some number of merfolk, a gloeybringer, and a very active Chandra in play.
Enchantment removal is almost useless here but you have to bring it in, field of ruin would be much better though. This match has to be played very tight and I will say I have been underestimating this deck.
Round 3 Grixis Mid 0-2
Game one he answered most of my threats 1 for 1, played a Scarab God on curve, I struggled and survived the SG but he cast another one turn 6 and took over the game.
Game I managed to stick a Chandra and the game got a little Grundy until the Scarab assault began. I struggle//survived 2 in a row and he cast a third one, lights out.
This match sucks, I didn't manage to see any of the good cards I wanted here at all, I feel like tyrant has to come down here early on, also a blossoming defense would have been great, I did board them in just didn't see them, nor did I see a scavenger to deal with his gy.
Round 4 u/r GPG 2-1
Game one I ended up in an odd position where I had to hold up Abrade and couldn't deploy any threats or deal with the value creatures so they just built up and I lost to small creature damage.
Game 2 I curved out with threats and removal eating up his GY with a Scavanger along the way for a win.
Game 3 got into a grind and had to hold up Abrade for a few turns, but luckily I was able to run out a few creatures first and finished the game in the air.
This could be a weird game to play out because they can win out of nowhere, hence the reason to hold up Abrade. I think it's correct to never Abrade the throne and just wait for the gift itself. 8+ artifact removal spells post board should swing this one our way most of the time.
Round 5 ID
Top 8 UB Control 2-0
I started off with a mull to 5 on the draw but was able to curve out and win anyways.
Game 2 I kept an explosive seven and dropped the unstoppable curve.
Top 4 grixis Mid 0-2
Same opponent I lost to in the Swiss.
Game 1 I got stuck on 3 lands and was out valued quickly.
Game 2 mulled to 5, got stuck on 3 lands again and was able to stick things out to about turn 9 and thought I still had a chance to turn it around when I had, i believe a Phoenix in play on an empty board, I was at around 3 love but OP topped a gearhulk to flashback a contempt. I was disappointed that the non games happened, you dont want to lose like that in the top 4 and this deck usually mulligans and draws fairly well, but nobody is immune to variance and i feel that i played both games correctly. I hope he won out his last match, as I took off to start my hour and a half drive home.
It was a good run and I can't complain. My biggest concern going forward is the grixis matchup and I wouldn't mind finding an edge there somehow. One thing I do have in mind is dropping ballista. This is not a clear call though. I did side it out almost every round, and the only 2 games I even cast it in were the 2 game 1's of my grixis matchups. Despite plunging a thopters or 2 they were really lackluster there, but that isn't really even a matchup I wanted it for to begin with. I loved the idea to begin with, as we can end up never missing land drops in most games and it's a nice mana sink in the late game while being a good early play against mono red. I do think for now though I would drop them, move the 2 Blossoming Defense to the main, and fill that flex spot in the side for something, anything to help fight grixis. I only cast 1 blossoming defense all day, but I had drawn exactly that 1, and there were a few times I really wished to see a copy in my hand.
Anyhow I'm going to get ready for another pptq next week. I'm on the fence about running this back with some small tweaks or just playing grixis myself. I do feel it's correct to either be able to beat that deck or play the better version of it yourself. I think mono red is going to be on the rise soon as well and that is also something to consider.
I basically went off of some 5-0 lists and just tuned it slightly for what I knew The meta would be. I would like to possibly run this in an invitational this weekend in an unknown (to me) meta but these usually play out similar to pptqs with little to no nonsense. So my question is should I just run with the gp list? I do have personal bias when it comes to a few choices but sometimes that gets me in trouble.
For one, I tend to value naturalize over brontodon in a deck like this, we have no way of recurring value from it, but I feel fine with it in the main as its flexible in game 1 where enchantment removal can steal a game or 2. I prefer my sideboard to be streamlined, and 2 mana disenchant is more efficient than at 4.
Is it wrong to drop the pia? I don't feel it's great as a one of. I see the value of stalling against red, but it doesn't seem to be doing much here other than that and if that's all it is doing I don't want to rely on drawing a one of. Another option I see here is maindecking 2 scavangers over pia and the 3rd resilient khenra . Gaining 2 and not having to deal with an eternalized khenra is fine, even if it eats an abrade or lightning strike we still get value and there aren't many matches that we lose much by playing i. The 3 drop spot is the lightest in the deck. But perhaps dropping to 2 resilient khenra is just wrong.
Hour of dev vs. Archers. This is one in in the dark about. Games I brought in hour I never saw it so I'm not sure how I feel about it. I get the archers probably get through the first few turns but when mono red boards into big red it seems lackluster to me, maybe I'm just wrong and I will say my mono red games were close. If my hours were archers I still wouldn't have drawn them so I'll never know if they would have helped but drawing an hour in a few spots sure would have made life a little easier. Until they just topdecked another hazoret, it's just semantics at this point anyhow and the true key for any deck to beat mono red is to just win the die roll and answer whatever threats you can without getting rolled.
I always tend to value the 3rd chandra in any deck I am playing her in. That's possibly a mistake here I guess but when I board them in it usually means it's a match I need to see it in. I have stolen so many games with an unanswered Chandra it's hard to imagine shaving one.
That leads me to the only real problem I have with it, blossoming defense. When I played the deck it was so proactive I feel like picking a fight with defense is a bit out of place. I will admit I did not watch the GP and I certainly did not win it so my ramblings and critiques mean little. But most of the creatures are already set up to be 2 for 1's. I'm sure defense can win some games but against control I feel like I would almost rather play a Bestiary in the spot. We don't have any particularly crucial creatures to protect like a hostage taker, and something like bestiary creates value the entire time it's in play.
Anyways like I said I didn't win a GP or pptq or even 5-0 a league with the deck so my thoughts can be taken with a grain of salt. I'm just looking to promote some discussion to next level this thing and maybe get a W with it. The deck will likely get a little more respect than it has been lately, but I think it's hard to hate out a deck that really just relies on playing a sweet curve.
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Irrigated Farmland
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Aether Hub
1 Island
15B 20B 16W, This has been enabling me to cast double w, double b on curve with careful sequencing, but I would really like to run more basics somehow. I do need to cast dusk legion zealot from hand, but am I putting too much stock in casting Chupacabra from hand and should I be focusing more on just goldfishing to the combo most of the time? And should I just get off of Push and lean more on Fumigte/settle? I will also note, I am playing refurbish/chart/strat planning plan and not the gate to the afterlife plan as I find the refurbish plan just more efficient. Any input is appreciated. The list I have been playing has been a house against other midrange and slower aggro decks (ie: slower than rdw)
This is an extremely inadequate argument, and this mindset is bad for the game. The health of the format does not rest on the shoulders of the game's consumer, but rather its creators. When said creators fail to balance their premier format it hurts everyone who plays the game in many ways, one of which costing us money to stay competitive in their game after they have failed to create a stable environment and the only fix they can seem to come up with is to hit the nuke button. Look at it however you will, these bannings have hurt the game over all, and if they continue will eventually crush whatever is left of consumer confidence resulting in a negative outcome for the game. Instead of pointing the finger at players to accept Wizards' folly, perhaps you should instead want to be pressuring the company making the game you are playing to take measures to avoid the need for bans to take place in a rotating format. I'm not saying that it wasn't needed, nor do I believe it was indeed needed that isn't my point. Some of us have lost to multiple bans stretching over the last year, and it is very frustrating. I know for me, if even one of my couple modern decks gets hit next month I am probably done, I will likely find some other interest to involve myself in until wizards can straighten out their act.
The problem I had with Sanctuary was that the games I sided it in and had it early on enough I was not able to apply proper pressure, and this was in midrange matches. If you run into a board stall your opponent can just sit back and progress their own board as removing your creatures can become the worse line. When they can just trade in combat they aren't going to give you free cards. My sample size is relatively small in a small number of games played with it so is probably not solid and I'm not completely off the card. Maybe in those games had I been able to draw into more removal I could have cleared the board and forced more interaction. I'm going to try testing more with it today as I think there is still potential, but I do think its going to be more useful in control matches that utilize a lot of spot removal and I don't think the time for that is now. I'm sure at some point these are going to make it into my SB. In games like the one I mentioned Ripjaw would have been better as I could have applied some pressure and forced decisions as you can only allow yourself to be hit for 4 so many times.
If you are leaning on 4 spell pierce to beat approach I think you're playing the matchup wrong. Spell pierce is a tempo play that allows you to keep your board alive against a boardwipe to apply enough pressure before they hit approach. In the last format negating Fumigate on 5 was usually good enough to finish the game, that gets a little more complicated with Wrath to Exile in the format and that is where spell pierce comes in. Its an extra out to play to, not a way to win the game. 4 of them is going to feel bad, especially after they play around it.
I have had zero problems with consistency against RDW without lifegain. I don't want a card like cartouch that I am ONLY bringing in that game. We have access to so much removal and ways to clog the board that it shouldn't be needed. Why are you keeping cubs in against RDW? Even on the play you aren't going to be pressuring them, you should be playing a control role at that point with your cheap removal. If you play cub its not going to block, and most likely is going to turn on their removal. The only creatures I would want to play it on would be Hydra or glorybringer. I can see that being good, but very narrow. I'm not saying its terrible in that matchup, but its the only one you will want it in and there are just other things you can/should be doing to win that game. Confiscation coup is not terrible there either, stealing their Hazoret is fine and its the only out we have to it. If I have to play 9 rounds against mono red sure I will pack some cartouch(s), but its not really what I want to be doing.
Skysovereign is a house against both of those decks. I know because I have played it against them, does it eat an abrade sometimes yes. Most of the time, no because they already ate their abrade on another creature. You say you have 3 turns to win against RDW most of the time, you realize Skysoverign does 18 damage over 3 turns (more with Rhonas pumps) and does gain you life by removing a threat each time. Sometimes you are going to be hit with a tempo loss and lose the game, that's magic. But the boat is something they have to answer, if they don't it doesn't just sit there staring them in the face. Its also good in mirrors and other mid-range games as it can block glorybringer and or break stalemates.
Sanctuary is not a bad card, it is going to take a certain meta for it to thrive though. That day will come...you'll see.
Ripjaw is value against any creature deck. A deck splashing black or white will care if they are creature decks. Temur is threat dense, if they are an aggro or midrange deck they will only have so much spot removal. If they destroy my Raptor, I will probably land a glorybringer sometime soon that they won't have removal for, or better yet they exiled my raptor instead of my Scarab God later? I'll take that. Its probably either raptor or Blasting Cannon in that spot, and for a deck like this I like to be able to overload on threats that have upside. Obviously you aren't bringing raptors in against UW approach.
Nissa is a fine card and I have it on my list of cards I want to work into the SB.
First an update to the sideboard
-3 Shaper's Sanctuary
+1 Ripjaw Raptor
+2 Spell Pierce
* This is a list in progress, if there is a card there that seems out of place maybe its because I'm, you know, testing it........
2 skysovereign : ??? not sure this card is really good in the present meta, you are going to side in vs what? Control?? no (negate come in), RDW (nope way too slow), Dino (doesnt do *****), mirror (cant deal with cub/hydra/glorybringer), Abrade so popular.... this card need to go
Skysovereign is an absolute house in most matches, I know this from playing the deck for the past 2 months. Most lists I have been seeing, including the one that 5-0 on MTGO yesterday ran 1 in the main. The main board is tight, so I pushed mine to the board, and the only match that I ever used to side them out was against control, I fail to see how its bad against the meta, sure you side it out against approach, show me where its bad and why.
2 ripjaw raptor : only good against RDW , and vs them we need life, raptor doesnt bring life, against all other deck its suck, even against mirror 4/5 against cub and hydra its worthless
Ripjaw is probably one of the best new cards we get. Its a decent replacement for tireless tracker, which was a card boarded in almost every game, except against red decks. I don't think you are evaluating this card properly, its a 4/5 for 4 that draws you cards, its for grindy matches and in testing it has performed well. You could say that there are other cards that need to be pushed into the sideboard, and that would be acceptable, but this card isn't as worthless as you think. It's not there for RDW either, maybe you side it in there sure, but it comes in any grindy matchup and does work. You're opponent either plays around it, value, or kills it for card/s, value.
3 shaper sancturay : ???? really....... are you serious, this card is only good in opening hand, in late game its a dead card. Sorry man there is way better card than this for temur Energy
Again, I am testing, so yes I am very serious. Cards like this have potential to take over a game, and I have been testing it, I have cut it because it has underperformed in the couple matches I have actually been able to use it, and I think a couple spell pierce will out value it for now. You can mock it now, but mark my words, you will see this card played at some point during its time in standard, but its going to be at its best against control decks utilizing a lot of spot removal. I thought maybe it could help in grindy matches and mirrors but it seems to be too easily played around for now and I could be wrong about that. And no kidding its a bad top deck, that's why you run 3 in the board, you want to make sure you see it early.
3 longtusk cub: ??? This is one of the best card in our deck, its the besr racing card, you need 4 minimum
Its one of out only cards that doesn't 2 for 1. I have been playing 3 for a month since I added a Rhonas. Yes sometimes you get to race with it, most of the time that doesn't happen and there was a time it wasn't even played in the deck. If I didn't feel 4 whirlers were needed I would cut one for a cub. however virtuoso is key in RDW games, and is more essential that sideboard lifegain cards that set you up to be 2 for 1'd.
2 magma spray/2 abrade: this really depend on the meta, if you think mardu vehicule is going to be popular i suggest Abrade, magma spray good against RDW and RB aggro
Brad Nelson disagrees with you. So do I, even if Mardu is prevalent magma spray answers all of their non artifact creatures for 1 red, and exiles scrapheap scrounger. Ever magma spray a Champion of Wits? Feels pretty good. Even in most bad games that you side them out there will be a target, and keeps them maindeckable.
You realize this is a midrange deck right, that should have a variety of answers and out to hedge against the majority of the field?
4 spell pierce is probably very likely to be very wrong.
I don't like the cartouch, I can see it as a 2 of in the board but I prefer to keep myself out of burn range by clogging the board against RDW, and clocking them with big creatures that double as removal, Glorybringer, Skysoverign.
Vraska seems legit and probably playable though.
I like Hostage Taker and its definitely the kind of card we want to play. I have thought about playing it as well, it would probably take virtuoso becoming somewhat unneeded for me to shift that way but I don't think you're wrong at all and it seems solid. I'm not sure I would go abrade-less, I feel like that 75 wants the full 4 for now. Chandra is fine as well. I value the 4th Hydra and Glorybringer over her currently but I think Chandra is just a matter of personal preference as its a great card.
3x Longtusk Cub
4x Servant of the conduit
4x Rogue Refiner
1x Rhonas the Indomitable
2x The Scarab God
4x Bristling Hydra
4x Glorybringer
4x Attune with Aether
2x Abrade
2x Magma Spray
4x Harnessed Lightning
3x Spirebluff Canal
2x Sheltered Thicket
2x Rootbound Crag
4x Aether Hub
3x Forest
2x Mountain
1x Island
1x Swamp
4x Negate
2x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2x Ripjaw Raptor
3x Shaper's Sanctuary
2x Abrade
2x Confiscation Coup
This is the list I have been working on. The main is pretty set for me as its almost the same list I have been running I have just made the switch to Scarab God. I would like one more green source though. The sideboard isn't set in stone either, I wouldn't mind a spell pierce or 2.