You're probably right about not having enough to cash Archangel consistently, especially since white isn't my main color. Duress will be in the sideboard to help fight control. I always like having a couple in my black decks.
This is a B/W Exemplars deck built around Ojutai Exemplars, a great card that hasn't found a home in Standard. I paired it with cheap spells and creatures to take advantage of them (Seeker of the Way and [Agent of the Fates]) to build a tempo-based deck that does admittedly fold to Languish but can be strong against a variety of decks.
I haven't put it together to test it in person yet, but I think it could be strong. Still working on a sideboard. Looking to take it to an IQ this weekend and put it through its paces. What do you think?
If you do that, chances are you won't have any other discard spells in your original 7 plus the two you draw (with 8 discard spells, you'd have a 33% chance to have two discard spells in your first nine cards). You're better off waiting to play Waste Not on turn two and then your discard on turn three, but even that puts you too far behind against a lot of decks.
Waste Not is bad even as a SB card because it requires other cards to make it work. Your SB cards need to be impactful by themselves, not a card that will only get you a small amount of value over the course of your typical game. It's just one of those cards that you have to build around for it to be any good.
It seems like Waste Not is bad in this deck. Most of the time it'll be a dead card. Against control, you'll likely get to draw one or two cards and maybe get some mana - nothing control can't overcome. If your deck was more heavily discard-oriented, it'd make more sense. But as it stands now, you just won't get enough value from it, and there are plenty of decks that can just ignore a Waste Not and still beat you.
You have to balance delving for a turn 4 Dig Through Time with the prospect of not being able to hit a turn 2 or even turn 3 Nullify and Silumgar's Scorn (with Havens and Radiant Fountains throw in the mix).
I play Myth Realized in my B/W Control deck and it's awesome - even though I don't have counters to protect it. I imagine it'd be better in a blue-based control deck.
Evolving Wilds doesn't do anything for you other than give you a card for Empty the Pits, and often in games it'll only contribute to half a zombie, so it's not worth it to have yet another land that comes into play tapped and is slow. I have a B/W deck and I almost never have a problem fixing mana beyond the typical mana screw that non-mono decks run into.
What you'll find is that U/B Control and Esper Control will eat you alive, especially the Dragons variant. Merciless Executioner is a good SB card against them, especially paired with Palace Siege. But you still need more threats than answers to get through their kill spells and counters.
I suppose replacing the Evolving Wilds with more Caves of Koilos would be fine. 10 CiPT lands aren't really a big deal for a grindy control deck, if that's what you're worried about. The fixing is always necessary though. 16 white sources is where you need to be to consistently hit a turn 5 End Hostilities, so we're actually 1 shy of that, even with the fixing of Wilds. 21 black sources is pretty great (above Karsten's recommended 20) for consistently having turn 2 Bile Blight or Sign in Blood.
As far as the control match-up, I don't think it's really that big of a deal. I think aggressively mulling for a turn 2 Mastery of the Unseen or being patient and waiting to Duress and Thoughtseize away all of their counters to land a Palace Siege is the best bet. You're aren't going to beat them with creatures, barring perhaps Risen Executioner. Getting a Silumgar off the board isn't worth running Merciless Executioner, considering they run Haven of the Spirit Dragon.
Edit: Wait, are you suggesting that you recur Merciless Executioner every turn with Palace Siege on Khans mode? While that's hilarious and all (it's effectively The Abyss), the Executioner also kills himself with the Innocent Blood CiP trigger. Why wouldn't you just play Dragons mode and drain them to death in 10 turns?
You only need one Palace Siege on Dragons mode. Recurring Merciless Executioner is to keep Ojutai from stomping you to death. Palace Siege kills in 10, Ojutai kills in four. That's how these Dragons decks play now - to put Ojutai on the field and close out the game much faster than U/B Control normally does. It also protects your Elspeth from Silumgar, who otherwise would absolutely eat her alive and essentially make her a dead card in your hand. You recur them because they'll counter it the first time you play it. No big deal; you just cast it again until they run out of counters.
Foul Tongue is so important in winning the mono red match, and the dragons match. Flamewake is also key in applying a recurring source of pressure vs the control deck, and has consistently over preformed, this deck would exist without it.
Thanks for the feedback but i don't think cutting flamewakes or foul tongue is reasonable. Nor do i think 2 crux in the main is a must. Please make comments only if you have played with the cards in question or something similar to the list i posted.
Just because you don't like our comments doesn't mean we haven't played with the cards. We have, which is why we're making recommendations to you. If multiple people are telling you something, chances are it's not unreasonable.
Evolving Wilds doesn't do anything for you other than give you a card for Empty the Pits, and often in games it'll only contribute to half a zombie, so it's not worth it to have yet another land that comes into play tapped and is slow. I have a B/W deck and I almost never have a problem fixing mana beyond the typical mana screw that non-mono decks run into.
What you'll find is that U/B Control and Esper Control will eat you alive, especially the Dragons variant. Merciless Executioner is a good SB card against them, especially paired with Palace Siege. But you still need more threats than answers to get through their kill spells and counters.
If anyone here wants a good anti-Control card, try Colossus of Akros. I run him in my SB in my B/W Control deck and it wrecks Control. I haven't lost a game where I've resolved a Colossus.
This deck played other control decks (three U/B Control, one Sultai, one Abzan) five out of the six matches, and I went 1-2-2 during that stretch. (The only non-control deck I played was a R/W Aggro deck that I destroyed.)
Colossus of Akros is a serious anti-control card. He comes down and they don't know what to do with it. You can play around their counters, and the only card they usually play that can deal with it is Perilous Vault - something you can also play around. I didn't lose a single game where I had him on the battlefield. He won me several games. I highly recommend trying him as an anti-control silver bullet. (He's probably also the most fun card to play with in the entire deck.)
Myth Realized is a legit threat against midrange and control. You'll find that it outclasses other creatures pretty easily, and against control, it turns into a menace that has to be answered. Works very well with Valorous Stance.
Since then, I've changed the sideboard around to include Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Mind Rot, mainly to even out the control matchup but to also help with decks that absolutely need all of their resources to kill you.
4 Seeker of the Way
3 Agent of the Fates
1 Herald of Torment
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
4 Ojutai Exemplars
2 Archangel of Tithes
Spells
4 Thoughtseize
2 Sign in Blood
4 Defiant Strike
4 Boon of Erebos
3 Hero's Downfall
1 Ultimate Price
1 Murderous Cut
1 Bile Blight
1 Utter End
4 Temple of Silence
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
6 Plains
1 Scoured Barrens
8 Swamp
I haven't put it together to test it in person yet, but I think it could be strong. Still working on a sideboard. Looking to take it to an IQ this weekend and put it through its paces. What do you think?
Waste Not is bad even as a SB card because it requires other cards to make it work. Your SB cards need to be impactful by themselves, not a card that will only get you a small amount of value over the course of your typical game. It's just one of those cards that you have to build around for it to be any good.
You only need one Palace Siege on Dragons mode. Recurring Merciless Executioner is to keep Ojutai from stomping you to death. Palace Siege kills in 10, Ojutai kills in four. That's how these Dragons decks play now - to put Ojutai on the field and close out the game much faster than U/B Control normally does. It also protects your Elspeth from Silumgar, who otherwise would absolutely eat her alive and essentially make her a dead card in your hand. You recur them because they'll counter it the first time you play it. No big deal; you just cast it again until they run out of counters.
Just because you don't like our comments doesn't mean we haven't played with the cards. We have, which is why we're making recommendations to you. If multiple people are telling you something, chances are it's not unreasonable.
What you'll find is that U/B Control and Esper Control will eat you alive, especially the Dragons variant. Merciless Executioner is a good SB card against them, especially paired with Palace Siege. But you still need more threats than answers to get through their kill spells and counters.
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Silence the Believers
2 Ultimate Price
2 Utter End
3 Valorous Stance
1 Damnable Pact
3 End Hostilities
3 Read the Bones
3 Thoughtseize
1 Liliana Vess
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Resolute Archangel
3 Myth Realized
3 Caves of Koilos
6 Plains
4 Scoured Barrens
7 Swamp
4 Temple of Silence
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Crux of Fate
3 Drown in Sorrow
4 Duress
1 Liliana Vess
1 Thoughtseize
1 In Garruk's Wake
1 Archfiend of Depravity
2 Bile Blight
This deck played other control decks (three U/B Control, one Sultai, one Abzan) five out of the six matches, and I went 1-2-2 during that stretch. (The only non-control deck I played was a R/W Aggro deck that I destroyed.)
Colossus of Akros is a serious anti-control card. He comes down and they don't know what to do with it. You can play around their counters, and the only card they usually play that can deal with it is Perilous Vault - something you can also play around. I didn't lose a single game where I had him on the battlefield. He won me several games. I highly recommend trying him as an anti-control silver bullet. (He's probably also the most fun card to play with in the entire deck.)
Myth Realized is a legit threat against midrange and control. You'll find that it outclasses other creatures pretty easily, and against control, it turns into a menace that has to be answered. Works very well with Valorous Stance.
Since then, I've changed the sideboard around to include Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Mind Rot, mainly to even out the control matchup but to also help with decks that absolutely need all of their resources to kill you.