Simic Megamorph: 1-1-1 (Opponent played slow and we went to turns) Jeskai Black: 2-1 Mono Red: 2-1 Abzan: 0-2 (Stuck on 2 lands for the first 5-6 turns both games) Jund Dragons: 2-0 Esper Dragons: 0-2 Atarka Red: 2-1
Aside from not drawing lands against Abzan, the deck ran smoothly and I feel like the numbers are about right.
I would change the 3 frontier lands that enter untapped, such as Yamivaya or Shivan. You lose with the frontier aggressiveness
Regarding Bivouac, I think it's actually passable since we don't have a turn 1 play. It's possible that it could hurt us late game when we need our fifth land to dash Kolaghan or flash Surrak, but I haven't really ran into that yet.
So the list is a combination of my original list in the thread, some iterations I tried before and Contumaz's list above, and it plays out very similarly to what Contumaz described. Where it differs is some of the top end in the dragons package and the inclusion of Draconic Roar over Temur Charm.
We get a lot of "free" damage off Frost Walker on the play, and Draconic Roar helps with that by removing their early drops. I also wanted to make sure I had enough ways to deal with Soulfire Grand Master against Dark Jeskai, because that card can be a HUGE problem early and late. It pressures control super early and is a good card to play with a resolved Temur Ascendancy to start playing 2 creatures a turn.
Heir of the Wilds gets in a lot of "free" damage as well, because nobody really wants to block that guy. And sometimes your plan is to just attack with Heir on turn 3, pass turn with Bounding Krasis mana up. Flash in Krasis, untap Heir and block/trade can catch people off guard as well.
Shaman of the Great Hunt is great like Contumaz stated. I decided on 2 because I still wanted to keep the full playset of Thunderbreak Regent. Thunderbreak might actually be one of the weaker cards in the list, but fliers win games and the bolt when it dies is definitely relevant in a tempo list. I also didn't want to be too weak to fliers in the mirror.
Surrak Dragonclaw is also a fantastic card in this list. It makes our counterspells out of the board that much more powerful since it gives us options with our mana, and opponents counters that much weaker. We can hold up counter mana or Murderous Cut mana, and if nothing happens, flash Surrak and get aggressive.
Regarding the board, Whisperwood Elemental was something to bring in against grindier matchups and control to help go wide. I'm not completely sold on it, but it was a last minute inclusion since I couldn't get my hands on any Self-Inflicted Wounds. Self-Inflicted Wound might be the wrong card though, I'm not sure. I want to keep as much as I can instant speed, so maybe Foul-Tongue Invocation is better?
And Mindswipe was an idea I was toying with against Control matchups since we have mana open versus them a LOT. I hit an Esper player with it for 6 damage when he tapped out versus me and he was caught totally off guard. It's probably too cute, but the list in general is something people aren't used to playing against, so I want to take advantage of that. With so much fetch damage and Painful Truths starting to see more play, it might not be as bad as it seems.
I think the list is a little bit harder to play because individually, some of the cards are weaker than what you'll see in Abzan or Jeskai. But you win by surprising your opponent and knowing when to steal tempo.
Took this to the finals of a 17 man tourney tonight and drew for prizes. I'll post my thoughts on it tomorrow morning, but going back to a flash/tempo build feels way better what I was playing before.
I really like where you took the list with Kolaghan's Command – it was a card I totally forgot about in these colors. I like that its versatile, allowing us to target ourselves for discard like you said, but can also just get back a cheap threat if we need it too, or even just do damage to the face to finish a game. Have you continued to play your list? Any further insights?
Here's what I plan on playing tomorrow to see how it works out:
Atarka Red has fallen off in my meta so I'm comfortable moving Radiant Flames to the sideboard to make room for Deathmist Raptor.
Cut 2 Greenwarden of Murasa for 2 Kolaghan's Command. Even though Greenwarden is one of the best cards we can have in our hand when it turns into a grindfest, sometimes our opening hands are just too expensive with multiple Greenwardens and an Ulamog/Atarka.
Bound Krasis: My favorite game plan is; frost walker, 4 dmg, land pass. Oponnent plays a creature, krasis, tap creature. Land shaman in for 11 dmg and frost walker is now a 5/2, krasis a 4/4 and shaman a 5/3.
I'm actually really glad someone else is testing out Krasis. I think my original list ran best with this guy. It allows us to hold up mana for our Knuckleblades and Stubborn Denials and doesn't punish us if we don't use either.
Edit: I tested Sidisi in a 4C Reanimator deck inspired by Saffron Olive and always found myself wanting a different card instead. She just didn't impact the board enough. I went just straight Jund and found Thunderbreak Regent to be much better, which is funny, because in theory Sidisi should be much better in a reanimator shell.
I haven't had as much time to dedicate testing towards Temur Black lately, but I'm preparing for a tournament to win a complete foil set of Modern Masters in a few weeks, so I'll be on Temur Black exclusively until then. If I had to play today though, here's the untested list I would take:
I added Lumbering Falls based on the recommendations of a few, taking out one of each of my basics I had doubles of. I'm not sure if this means I should be cutting a few Frontier Bivouac as well? The manabase has felt perfect thus far, so this is actually the biggest change that I'm unsure of.
Went to a full 4 Heir of the Wilds, because his deathtouch is so helpful at slowing down aggressive and other midrange decks.
Trying a main deck Tasigur, the Golden Fang. This might be too much delve, but testing will tell.
I totally removed Feed the Clan from the board in favor of just running 4 Radiant Flames. I found myself only boarding in Feed the Clan in the Atarka Red matchup, but that deck can deal so much damage in one turn that I think its more about keeping the board clean over life gain I think. It's such a great card against the B/W Warriors lists and even Allies lists that are starting to see some play too, that I'd rather have a card that is amazing in all 3.
Went to a 2/2 split between Transgress the Mind and Duress. I think they both shine in different matchups, and in some we may even want both.
So, here's where I seem to have ended up for Temur Black thus far, based primarily off Nevelo's shell, with bits and pieces drafted from some other versions as well.
How has 3 Tasigur and 3 Cut worked out for you? It seems a little ambitious to me, even with Jace looting, but I have no experience with it so just curious.
I actually hadn't considered See the Unwritten. I know some people were talking about the card when Greenwarden was spoiled and looping it. What would you cut though?
Agreed on Tasigur, and he comes in from the board.
I hadn't seen that deck, but it sounds pretty interesting actually.
Played 5 matches today at lunch versus a red deck and went 5-0, stabilizing at 1 the last game, and on the draw all five times. Radiant Flames is of course the all-star in that match and is very hard for them to recover from, since we usually follow it up with a Thunderbreak or something reanimated. It mirrors my other experiences against red decks, so that matchup isn't as bad as it would seem. I may play it in a tournament tonight, so I'll post some more thoughts if I do.
A few weeks ago, SaffronOlive posted a budget Sultai Reanimator list on MTGGoldfish that revolved around reanimating Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as early as turn 4. For ~$100, the deck seemed fun and solid, but I wondered what would happen if we upped the budget a little and changed the deck's core colors to support earlier sweepers and discard.
The Spells
Tormenting Voice - One of the problems of the budget list is it doesn't have a good way to get your fatties in the graveyard to reanimate them. The last thing we want is to have our reanimated targets in our grip. The first card I thought of to solve this problem was Tormenting Voice. Not only does it allow us to drop Dragonlord Atarka, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Greenwarden of Murasa in the graveyard, but the card draw helps us find our reanimate spells.
Radiant Flames - We have to respect red decks, and this is our answer if they get off to a fast start, and one of the main reasons I went Jund.
Gather the Pack - Graveyard/delve fuel. Depending on the stage of the game, we won't always put a creature into our hand.
Murderous Cut - Plenty of things to kill, and we have more than enough delve fuel for it.
*It's worth noting that both of our reanimator spells dodge Dispel.
The Creatures
Rattleclaw Mystic - Helps us accelerate into a turn 4 Dragonlord Atarka or Ulamog, or just cast our Thunderbreak Regents and Greenwardens faster.
Thunderbreak Regent - A solid beater in the air and good 4 drop. Not the best target to reanimate, but sometimes we just loop 6/6 fliers and turn into a super grindy matchup, letting our opponents burn themselves when they target him.
Greenwarden of Murasa - I can't say enough good things about this guy. He lets us grab whatever we need out of the yard and is a solid body. We often suicide him on an attack or let him trade on a block just to start looping things when he goes to the yard.
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger - We don't get his cast effect, but he puts a short clock on our opponents, blocks well, and requires very specific removal to be dealt with.
Dragonlord Atarka - Can sweep the board against red and crushes everything in the air. With Fearsome Awakening, he'll be a 10/10 trampler in the air. Nasty!
I'd appreciate any thoughts on improving the deck! It's an absolute blast to play, especially if you don't enjoy playing the default "best deck" in the room.
1x Mindswipe
2x Negate
3x Radiant Flames
3x Rending Volley
3x Roast
1x Temur Ascendancy
2x Transgress the Mind
Overall, I went 4-2-1 and my matchups were:
Simic Megamorph: 1-1-1 (Opponent played slow and we went to turns)
Jeskai Black: 2-1
Mono Red: 2-1
Abzan: 0-2 (Stuck on 2 lands for the first 5-6 turns both games)
Jund Dragons: 2-0
Esper Dragons: 0-2
Atarka Red: 2-1
Aside from not drawing lands against Abzan, the deck ran smoothly and I feel like the numbers are about right.
Regarding Bivouac, I think it's actually passable since we don't have a turn 1 play. It's possible that it could hurt us late game when we need our fifth land to dash Kolaghan or flash Surrak, but I haven't really ran into that yet.
We get a lot of "free" damage off Frost Walker on the play, and Draconic Roar helps with that by removing their early drops. I also wanted to make sure I had enough ways to deal with Soulfire Grand Master against Dark Jeskai, because that card can be a HUGE problem early and late. It pressures control super early and is a good card to play with a resolved Temur Ascendancy to start playing 2 creatures a turn.
Heir of the Wilds gets in a lot of "free" damage as well, because nobody really wants to block that guy. And sometimes your plan is to just attack with Heir on turn 3, pass turn with Bounding Krasis mana up. Flash in Krasis, untap Heir and block/trade can catch people off guard as well.
Shaman of the Great Hunt is great like Contumaz stated. I decided on 2 because I still wanted to keep the full playset of Thunderbreak Regent. Thunderbreak might actually be one of the weaker cards in the list, but fliers win games and the bolt when it dies is definitely relevant in a tempo list. I also didn't want to be too weak to fliers in the mirror.
Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury is still just stupid and closes games fast.
Surrak Dragonclaw is also a fantastic card in this list. It makes our counterspells out of the board that much more powerful since it gives us options with our mana, and opponents counters that much weaker. We can hold up counter mana or Murderous Cut mana, and if nothing happens, flash Surrak and get aggressive.
Regarding the board, Whisperwood Elemental was something to bring in against grindier matchups and control to help go wide. I'm not completely sold on it, but it was a last minute inclusion since I couldn't get my hands on any Self-Inflicted Wounds. Self-Inflicted Wound might be the wrong card though, I'm not sure. I want to keep as much as I can instant speed, so maybe Foul-Tongue Invocation is better?
And Mindswipe was an idea I was toying with against Control matchups since we have mana open versus them a LOT. I hit an Esper player with it for 6 damage when he tapped out versus me and he was caught totally off guard. It's probably too cute, but the list in general is something people aren't used to playing against, so I want to take advantage of that. With so much fetch damage and Painful Truths starting to see more play, it might not be as bad as it seems.
I think the list is a little bit harder to play because individually, some of the cards are weaker than what you'll see in Abzan or Jeskai. But you win by surprising your opponent and knowing when to steal tempo.
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Cinder Glade
2x Forest
3x Frontier Bivouac
1x Island
2x Lumbering Falls
2x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Sunken Hollow
1x Swamp
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Bounding Krasis
3x Frost Walker
4x Heir of the Wilds
2x Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
4x Savage Knuckleblade
2x Shaman of the Great Hunt
2x Surrak Dragonclaw
4x Thunderbreak Regent
// Instant (10)
4x Draconic Roar
3x Murderous Cut
3x Stubborn Denial
1x Mindswipe
2x Negate
3x Radiant Flames
2x Rending Volley
2x Roast
1x Temur Ascendancy
2x Transgress the Mind
2x Whisperwood Elemental
Here's what I plan on playing tomorrow to see how it works out:
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Cinder Glade
3x Forest
3x Mountain
3x Smoldering Marsh
1x Swamp
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
// Instant (5)
3x Murderous Cut
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Fearsome Awakening
4x Gather the Pack
1x Necromantic Summons
4x Tormenting Voice
// Creature (17)
3x Deathmist Raptor
2x Dragonlord Atarka
2x Greenwarden of Murasa
4x Rattleclaw Mystic
4x Thunderbreak Regent
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3x Duress
2x Radiant Flames
1x Murderous Cut
1x Void Winnower
2x Gaea's Revenge
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Whisperwood Elemental
1x Ruinous Path
2x Rending Volley
Changes:
I'm actually really glad someone else is testing out Krasis. I think my original list ran best with this guy. It allows us to hold up mana for our Knuckleblades and Stubborn Denials and doesn't punish us if we don't use either.
Regarding Sidisi, I think you need to be taking full advantage of delve for her to make sense. Use her, Kiora, Master of the Depths and Gather the Pack to fuel Murderous Cut, Gurmag Angler or Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and Hooting Mandrills. That's more of a sultai shell though.
Edit: I tested Sidisi in a 4C Reanimator deck inspired by Saffron Olive and always found myself wanting a different card instead. She just didn't impact the board enough. I went just straight Jund and found Thunderbreak Regent to be much better, which is funny, because in theory Sidisi should be much better in a reanimator shell.
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Cinder Glade
1x Forest
4x Frontier Bivouac
1x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Sunken Hollow
1x Swamp
2x Lumbering Falls
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Heir of the Wilds
4x Rattleclaw Mystic
4x Savage Knuckleblade
4x Woodland Wanderer
4x Thunderbreak Regent
2x Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
// Planeswalkers (2)
2x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
// Instant (10)
4x Draconic Roar
3x Murderous Cut
3x Stubborn Denial
4x Radiant Flames
2x Rending Volley
1x Sarkhan Unbroken
1x Surrak Dragonclaw
1x Temur Ascendancy
2x Transgress the Mind
2x Duress
1x Sultai Charm
1x Disdainful Stroke
How has 3 Tasigur and 3 Cut worked out for you? It seems a little ambitious to me, even with Jace looting, but I have no experience with it so just curious.
Check out Nevelo's builds in this thread. I think they've all kept the Raptor/Den Protector/Kiora package, and it looks quite strong.
Agreed on Tasigur, and he comes in from the board.
Played 5 matches today at lunch versus a red deck and went 5-0, stabilizing at 1 the last game, and on the draw all five times. Radiant Flames is of course the all-star in that match and is very hard for them to recover from, since we usually follow it up with a Thunderbreak or something reanimated. It mirrors my other experiences against red decks, so that matchup isn't as bad as it would seem. I may play it in a tournament tonight, so I'll post some more thoughts if I do.
This article by Jadine Klomparens has been my guide on Raptor/Den Protector and is well worth the read.
A few weeks ago, SaffronOlive posted a budget Sultai Reanimator list on MTGGoldfish that revolved around reanimating Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as early as turn 4. For ~$100, the deck seemed fun and solid, but I wondered what would happen if we upped the budget a little and changed the deck's core colors to support earlier sweepers and discard.
The Spells
Radiant Flames - We have to respect red decks, and this is our answer if they get off to a fast start, and one of the main reasons I went Jund.
Gather the Pack - Graveyard/delve fuel. Depending on the stage of the game, we won't always put a creature into our hand.
Fearsome Awakening & Necromantic Summons - We go with a 3/2 split, respectively, because we run a dragons package and a 10/10 Atarka or 6/6 Thunderbreak Regent pressure our opponents harder than a 7/6 Greenwarden.
Murderous Cut - Plenty of things to kill, and we have more than enough delve fuel for it.
*It's worth noting that both of our reanimator spells dodge Dispel.
The Creatures
Thunderbreak Regent - A solid beater in the air and good 4 drop. Not the best target to reanimate, but sometimes we just loop 6/6 fliers and turn into a super grindy matchup, letting our opponents burn themselves when they target him.
Greenwarden of Murasa - I can't say enough good things about this guy. He lets us grab whatever we need out of the yard and is a solid body. We often suicide him on an attack or let him trade on a block just to start looping things when he goes to the yard.
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger - We don't get his cast effect, but he puts a short clock on our opponents, blocks well, and requires very specific removal to be dealt with.
Dragonlord Atarka - Can sweep the board against red and crushes everything in the air. With Fearsome Awakening, he'll be a 10/10 trampler in the air. Nasty!
Sample Decklist
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Cinder Glade
2x Forest
3x Mountain
3x Smoldering Marsh
2x Swamp
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
// Instant (3)
3x Murderous Cut
3x Fearsome Awakening
4x Gather the Pack
2x Necromantic Summons
3x Radiant Flames
4x Tormenting Voice
// Creature (16)
2x Dragonlord Atarka
4x Greenwarden of Murasa
4x Rattleclaw Mystic
4x Thunderbreak Regent
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3x Duress
1x Feed the Clan
1x Void Winnower
2x Gaea's Revenge
2x Rending Volley
3x Deathmist Raptor
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Whisperwood Elemental
I'd appreciate any thoughts on improving the deck! It's an absolute blast to play, especially if you don't enjoy playing the default "best deck" in the room.
Edit: Sideboard options
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Cinder Glade
1x Forest
4x Frontier Bivouac
2x Island
2x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Sunken Hollow
1x Swamp
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Heir of the Wilds
4x Rattleclaw Mystic
3x Bounding Krasis
4x Savage Knuckleblade
3x Woodland Wanderer
4x Thunderbreak Regent
3x Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
1x Dragonlord Kolaghan
// Instant (10)
4x Draconic Roar
3x Murderous Cut
3x Stubborn Denial
2x Feed the Clan
3x Radiant Flames
2x Rending Volley
1x Sarkhan Unbroken
1x Temur Ascendancy
1x Sultai Charm
3x Transgress the Mind
2x Treasure Cruise