The new legend looks interesting enough with a yard full of cards. Recasting Eternal Witness or Snapcaster Mage to get two for ones every time seems really nice. Heck, getting back a liliana planeswalker is GREAT!
7 mana though when traversed for.....
Currently my curve topper is Ishkanah, Grafwidow, But with Whirler Rogue it could potentially make way for something else. The Scarab God has been burning in my binder ever since playing sultai in standard. But it's very grindy (slow ). How has Grave Titan been for you?
- smoresnbacon
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SmauG posted a message on Sultai DeliriumVendilion Clique Looks like something usefull. and so does Whirler Rogue as a three for one with ways to push some damage through. Maybe i'll add Flooded Grove to the manabase to cope with double green/double blue. It also helps growing our Scavenging Ooze while fetching for basics when needed.Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
I've been going back and forth on Snapcaster Mage vs. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy alongside the two of Search for Azcanta and I might just go with both. Looking back at Todd Stevens' lists from back in november (what triggered me to give it a go) I noticed he ran both at some point.
About Countersquall, I took your comments in consideration and you are right. I'm on one Negate from the board right now. It'l be easier to snap back too.
Thought Scour vs Hand Disruption/removal, not so sure This depends very heavilly on the matchup. -
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Iamwhatwas posted a message on Sultai MidrangeNot really. I'd rather have a looting effect early and a recurring flashback effect later on. Snap is good, but after you get them with snap, the opponent doesn't really worry about a 2/1 like they would a plainswalker. His +1 ability is helpful too, with The Last Hope it really helps with defense for go-wide strategies.Posted in: Midrange -
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Gen0syde86 posted a message on Sultai MidrangeMost accurate thing I've seen on here in a long timePosted in: Midrange -
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DTG posted a message on Sultai MidrangePosted in: MidrangeQuote from Ironhorse75 »Quote from smoresnbacon »Here's where I'm currently at with Jace:
@BK-V I tried to watch the Hoogland stream this morning, and then I was reminded why I don't watch him anymore. I agree with everything you said above, especially the part about Search for Azcanta. I cut Serum Visions entirely from my list as a result, and I don't think I'll be looking back anytime soon.
For those who haven't played Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, I encourage you to sleeve him up and give him a shot. I truly believe he works better in this shell than Snapcaster Mage a large majority of the time, since we're tapping out on our turn often.
22 lands my also seem a bit greedy in a shell without cantrips, but Search for Azcanta and Jace looting help us filter through the deck very quickly to find what we need.
I'm definitely going to try running 3x Azcanta without Serum. I'm running Flayer. I like the idea of being able to legend rule one into the yard to activate delirium. But even then, if you have a Sunken Ruin, you can still play Search because of the "may" clause.
I could never play Prodigy over Snap though. Even though we don't have nearly as many instants as other blue shells, I think it's invaluable to be able to Snap Decay a Blood Moon or Snap Push a creature with haste to protect your Jace.
I think it's going to depend on your build. If you're aiming to go long with a more control oriented build then obviously you have to include Snap. But after testing a more Rock oriented build in the mold of Jund/Abzan, Snap has been pretty clunky. The deck's average CMC is already a bit higher with Jace and often times I found myself with a LotV on the board but not wanting to +1 because I had something like Jace, Snap and a land in my hand. Specifically as it pertains to LotV, I think you want to take a more proactive approach and Snap is more reactive. This is why I think Vryn's Prodigy is worth testing. Something like a T1 IoK/TS followed by a T2 JVP followed by a T3 LotV is just much less clunky. The truth is, I really just want to play a BGx deck with Jace at the top end. If I was going to take a more controlling route with Snaps I'd probably just play some type of BUx pure control deck instead.
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BK-V posted a message on Sultai MidrangeJeff Hoogland streamed Sultai midrange featuring 4 JtMS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swn8L3joDwY&t=13sPosted in: Midrange
His list:
Some take aways:
1. 4 JtMS is too many, he always side boarded one out. I think 3 is the right number. He played the deck well, but only won about 50% of games, in my opinion due to flaws in the deck (see below).
2. The creature base needs to have more than 6 threats + 2 Snapcaster Mage + 3 Creeping Tarpit. 4 Goyfs and 2 ScOoze is not enough. There were multiple times where this deck played well and then didn't draw enough threats. I felt that Jeff had to over rely on Creeping Tar-pit for damage. Flayer, Tracker, Delve-critters and others need to be considered.
3. Maelstrom Pulse is needed to handle planes walker. This deck is not great at dealing with Planeswalkers that have landed on an empty-ish board.
4. I completely disagree with Jeff on Search for Azcanta. He didn't include it because he says it doesn't solve any problems the deck has. Search helps filter cards early, which midrange needs, especially when it needs discard spells for combo decks. Late game it flips and can find answers needed to answer threats, or can find planes walkers that can be threats. It is a great support card. I agree with Jeff that Dark Confidant is not needed.
5. LtLH was very impressive and Collective Brutality underperformed. However, I still think it's a very powerful card.
An update to my list:
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Lands (23)
2 island
2 swamp
1 forest
4 polluted delta
4 verdant catacomb
1 watery grave
1 overgrown tomb
1 breeding pool
3 darkslick shores
2 creeping tar pit
2 field of ruin
Creatures (10)
4 tarmogoyf
2 snapcaster mage
2 scavenging ooze
2 tireless trackerplaneswalkers (7)
3 liliana of the veil
1 Liliana, The Last Hope
3 Jace, the mind sculptor
sorceries (12)
2 inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 serum visions
2 maelstrom Pulse
Instants (6)
4 fatal push
2 abrupt decay
Enchantments (2)
2 Search for AzcantaSideboard (15)
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Countersquall
1 collective brutality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Bontu's last reckoning
3 Fulminator Mage
3 golgari charm
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
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Jadoth posted a message on Sultai DeliriumPosted in: Deck Creation (Modern)Quote from Doozy »Fair enough, although the deck is already almost entirely reliant on the graveyard. Another Delirium card isn't going to make that more of a problem than it already is. If we had Strix all of our prayers would be answered lol.
What do you guys think of this list? It's more aggressive but I'm liking it.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15802&d=297003&f=MO
O man that looks really good to me. A fusion Between my original list and willy edels abzan traverse. I think my list was a bit ambitious with higher cost cards and utility traverse targets, and those higher cost card made lotv much less appealing as plusing her early made them hard to use. So trimming those cards and adding an s tier and still synergistic card like lili is great. I will have to talk to snook about it next time I see him at an event. -
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Really? Against what decks? How much testing have you done? Can you break it down against different archetypes?Posted in: Midrange
90% (another number you've pulled from air it seems) of a crappy sample size is a good way to spread misinformation. I'm just asking you to prove your own statements or at least provide more than personal sentiment. IIRC, you personally tried it for one night?
Btw, it's not just you. I am skeptical of a lot that's been put on this particular subforum for about the last ten pages. There's a boat load of theorycrafting and personal sentiment. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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Stubs and Snapcaster were fun, but the deck was a little clunky with 3 Tasigurs.
I evolved the deck for a little bit, but it wasn't until I came across Justin Pasquino's deck tech that I truly fell in love with BUG:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/sultai_control_with_justin_pas.html
Courser and Jace were favorite cards from standard, and combined with Goyf and LotV, there was a deck I could truly get behind.
I had been playing variations of it for most of my time in Modern until recently when I went all-in on the delirium plan, inspired by this Jadoth list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/569532
It was certainly an interesting list that could grind with the best of them and had a scary late game, but I missed LotV too much. Reddit and Salvation have modified the deck to be much lower to the ground and aggressive, somewhere between a Death's Shadow deck and BUG Midrange, and it's that middle ground that I really enjoy playing today.
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2x Blooming Marsh
1x Breeding Pool
2x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Darkslick Shores
1x Forest
2x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Overgrown Tomb
4x Polluted Delta
2x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
Creature (11)
3x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Tireless Tracker
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Dismember
4x Fatal Push
Planeswalker (7)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Enchantment (3)
3x Search for Azcanta
Sorcery (9)
1x Collective Brutality
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
1x Collective Brutality
3x Disdainful Stroke
3x Fulminator Mage
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
3x Negate
3x Nihil Spellbomb
For those who haven't played Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, I encourage you to sleeve him up and give him a shot. I truly believe he works better in this shell than Snapcaster Mage a large majority of the time, since we're tapping out on our turn often.
22 lands my also seem a bit greedy in a shell without cantrips, but Search for Azcanta and Jace looting help us filter through the deck very quickly to find what we need.
Also, how does everyone feel about Courser of Kruphix in this meta? It blocks BBE well and has some great synergy with JtMS.
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I'm suggesting it's possible to cut another card (for me, it was Grave Titan) for a single Snapcaster as a Traverse target. While you can Traverse for Eternal Witness if you need removal, sometimes that extra mana does make a difference.
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I'm hoping Frank Karsten with his Magic Math can figure out the minimum number of creatures to make her worthwhile, but it's definitely not the 12-16 that successful BUG lists currently run.
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https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/612764#paper
I think this unofficially makes him the most consistently successful BUG player in Modern.
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https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/596919
Slightly tweaked from the last time he went 5-0, with Emrakul in the sideboard being the most notable change, which I definitely agree with. I've been testing the deck all week and the biggest issue I've had so far was reliably getting Emrakul to actually cost something reasonable. Most of the time, topping out at Thragtusk and Kalitas was enough to win games.
The deck feels a lot like the Control list I've been playing, but with a much more powerful late game. Traverse the Ulvenwald off the top usually swings games in our favor and makes our sideboard cards more potent.
If anyone wants to watch a true master pilot the deck, Todd Stevens played it on his stream last month to a 9-1 finish. It's a great watch for anyone interested in learning to play the deck and showcases some of the pretty insane lines its capable of.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/121651505
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Link and decklist:
http://decks.tcgplayer.com/magic/modern/lance-franklin/sultai-control/1278624
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Torrential Gearhulk
// Planeswalker [3]
3 Liliana of the Veil
// Instants [11]
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Cryptic Command
3 Fatal Push
3 Mana Leak
// Sorceries [14]
2 Ancestral Vision
2 Damnation
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Serum Visions
2 Thoughtseize
1 Breeding Pool
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Forest
2 Island
2 Lumbering Falls
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Countersquall
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Feed the Clan
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Natural State
2 Spell Snare