Legacy is a funny format. I tend to believe the format is mostly played on the kitchen table, therefore it is hard to tell what is hot and what is not. Sure we have legacy tournaments but there isn't enough legacy tournaments today like there was 10+ years ago. So I question all data on what's hot, when it comes to Legacy popularity.
Affinity is one of those decks types that players will flock to... So Mox Opals and other 'affinity cards' will have sell/trade value.
I think the Developing Tread many have a few answers your looking for:
Thanks for all your advice. Its going to take me a while to really digest it. It seems like the idea is to play him as early as possible, then just kind of lay back and wait to see what my opponent does. If he gets removed then i carry on burning my opponent like an old school burn deck. If he doesnt get removed i use him to attack and use my burn spells mostly to kill my opponents creatures so eidolon can get through.
Is that more or less correct?
Thanks
I think you're getting the idea. Eidolon is an awesome creature, he's a burn card advantage (you don't need to keep worrying about that damn top card) and you can play your spells conservatively. I also think Eidolon makes searing blood/blaze more awesome because the opponent most likely hold back from an attack so they can chump block your eidolon.
Ok....i confess...i have no idea how to play eidolon in this deck. Really. Ive been playing magic since 1994 and i just dont get it.
So i play this card in my second turn? Then what? Every spell i cast for the rest of the game costs me 2 life? I play lightning bolt to do 3 damage to you and 2 damage to me?
Cool... I've been playing since 1996. (I kind of thought you were an old school player)
Eidolon 101
You are forcing the opponent to slow down and/or Eidolon will turn your burn spells into finishers!
Do i wait till later in the game to cast it?
Do i cast it then do nothing until i have lethal damage in my hand?
I get it, im wrong. Everyone who has ever played magic sees how awesome this card is in a burn deck but me.
I would put Eidolon into play as soon as I can... Turn 2. (in most burn decks). I'm actually playing with 2 Chrome Mox but that's personal preference.
Can someone tell me how to play this card?
As in:
When do i want to cast it in a ideal situation?
Playing Eidolon is a strategery change from your traditional draw-burn-go style. So you are not imposed to top deck draws for every turn. Eidolon has legs and they can attack and block, and some opponents maybe forced to hold a creature back just to block an attactking Eidolon. Depends on situtation.
What am i trying to do before i cast it?
Usually it's best to lock in a creature. This is why most players play Goblin Guide on turn 1 and turn 2 they would play Eidolon.
What am i trying to do after i cast it?
I like to follow it with a 2cc Blaze/Blood, before an attack. I would kill a potental blocker, than play Vexing Devil. The devil would stay in play. Or play a 3 damage bolt and follow it with the devil.
What 4 cards should i cut to fit it in?
This is up to you. I'm not a fan of Swiftspear because half our deck don't make them grow! Swiftspear are also tricky to play with Eidolon because they are not growing until turn 3! So if you have Swiftspear into play on turn 1, it's only dealing 2 damage until turn 3. Goblin Guide would deal 4 damage.
But the weakest card on your deck list is Magma Jet. So I would drop 3 jets and 1 flame rift.
This really depends on you, I do suggest that you should proxy 4 Eidolon's first and see if you like the strategery change.
If your not liking Eidolon because you have a stronger love for Swiftspear (I'm assuming this because you came off very defensive on playing Swiftpear over Goblin Guide), anyway, I think adding a few free spells would be better move. Adding 4 Lotus Petal to a swiftspear burn would make a faster clock.
I have a bunch of fetches..ive just never tried them in this deck. Ive thought about it but so often when i win its like my fourth turn and ive got like 3 or 4 life left...if i did go with fetches i think id have to loose flame rift.
Fetches are good but not necessary for mono-red builds.
I had never had any issue with Fetchlands and Flame Rift. The only time I had an issue with Flame Rift is when I'm playing with Eidolon of the Great Revel.
Speaking of flame rift....i dont play NEARLY as much as i used to. If i played more i might have moved on from flame rift too, but i still love flame rifting and then sacing those same 2 mountains for fireblast. Its almost half your life for 2 mountains. And once you do it to someone they seem to remember that you do that. People seem to play differently when they know with only 2 lands you can easily do 8 damage.
I believe the popularly of Flame Rift started with the response after sacking lands to fireblast. Long, long time ago before magic ban/restricted Fork (yeah the card was ban/restricted) burn players would fork the fireblast for the massive 8 damage. Then when fork was ban/restricted, burn players found Flame Rift as a similar card for the old school burn combo.
In general, I can see playing 2 to 3 Flame Rifts. The card is still harsh for it's 2cc as well as dealing 4 damage to the owner.
I know vexing devil has been hotly debated on this forum in the past, i dont want to revisit that. But here are my quick thoughts.
As you say when people take the damage (and sometimes they do) its great. 4 damage for R makes it the best straight burn spell available doesnt it?
When people let it stay on the board (and sometimes they do) its a 4/3 for R. I dont know all the magic cards anymore, but in my experience thats a pretty big body for a pretty low casting cost.
And sure, when people let it stay, and they have the removal, (and sometimes that happens) he gets removed. Such is life, sometimes your opponent has the answer to your threat. But any removal that can take care of the devil can also take care of eidoln or GoBlinGUidE or grim lavamancer or any of the other creatures i might play instead of the devil, correct?
I'm a huge fan of Vexing devil and it seems that you have a good idea why the card is so freaking awesome. I rank Vexing Devil higher than Swiftspear... only because, what most burn players seemed to forget is that 18/20 lands + 7/11 creatures (almost half your deck) that don't do anything to make swiftspear to grow.
I also love magma jet. Its especially useful with the land consistency issues im having
Sorry but magma jet don't help with land consistency. All the card do is let you peek at the next two cards or allow you to draw the unknown 3rd card instead. You are still going to have mana issues. And worst because you are now playing another 2cc spell with 19 lands.
And as for blood/ blaze.... I feel like im running the right amount of land, but i dont consistently have them in my hand. Im sticking with blood for now. If i go with fetches, i might switch.
Blood is good, there is a good number of targets. Personally, I like both cards!
Do you think im wrong to mulligan hands with 1 land? Like i said, the curve on the deck is very low. But i hate sitting there with 1 land waiting to pull the second for 2 or 3 turns.
Tricky because it depends on the 6 cards and the person your playing against. Most of the time I'll keep my hand, but I'm playing with 20 lands so I know my odds is drawing up a land within the next 2 turns is good.
White is the best splash if you need to make any. Rest in Peace is better than LotV, you get access to Journey to Nowhere vs Emrakul and Wear // Tear kills Chill for W.
I don't sideboard vs Combo other than Pyrostatic Pillar if it's been rampanth. Eidolon by itself tells Storm, Elves, Belcher, All Spells and Infect "win turn 1 or pick up your cards".
Eidolon is a main card slot. I would pull out my searing cards for combo. Pillar is a good card, but it don't answer the cards that combo would be using to shield themselves from death.
I'm leaning to splashing black for 3 Shriekmaw and 1 Chains of Mephistopheles. Yes, I do own a Chains of Mephistopheles and the badlands for the splash. Maybe, I should be looking into a different deck?
I like Shriekmaw because of it's Evoke ability and that it can take out almost every 'non-Griselbrand' creature in a show/re-animator deck, as well as goyf. I lost too many games when the opponent play's a 2nd turn Iona. I never really had any issues with Griselbrand. I hate to say it but Ensnaring Bridge don't kill Iona.
As for Chains it does nothing to me. I would like 2 for consistency but I don't have the money to buy a second Chains. Against other decks chains just kills them!
On the sideboard against combo I'm leaning to adding 3 Thorn of Amethyst. I know this sounds insane, but please hear me out. I love Eidolon but the damage can be avoided such as playing Angel's Grace. And some 'good' players could try to combo enough cards so they could regain life with Tendrils of Agony and play the combo again for the win. I used to like Mindbreak Trap but that was before an opponent cast Orim's Chant and combo for the win. Thorn stops all that BS, the combo player is now force to add one extra mana for their spells, and loosing momentum very fast. The downside against us is that our spells cost 1 extra mana, sure we don't have the speed but combo would have a hell of a time pulling off a quick win. I ended up buying 2 more throns, so I could test this out.
Black splash I'm undecided. Maybe a different deck would be appropriate. I love the ability of fast creatures and fast damage, but I'm also looking for something that sucker punches the opponent. I'm open for suggestions.
Black: Misinformation So you take 3 cards from the opponent's graveyard and give it back to them. Sure this could screw up reanimator but I don't know for sure because the cards are not removed from the game.
Blue: Rhystic Scrying 4 mana draw 3 cards and the opponent has the option for you to discard 3 cards.
White: Leeches... What can we say about this card...
Green: Elephant Resurgence , 2 mana elephant token is awesome except if the opponent has more creatures in their graveyard.
Multi-color: Altar of Bone remove a creature from play and search for a creature and put it into you're hand.
I feel that the Top was banned for one reason alone, time consumption. Too many players would take too long resolving top over and over... And it sometimes felt like a certain specific player here would slow play just to annoy people. I've played against good miracles players, but I've also played against bad miracles players who would literally take forever to play a top.. I know what the loss of top does to the meta, but in some ways I feel that it was a good ban. Why?
It was a linchpin for so many decks and now my 10 post deck has lot one of its best matchups. However, my deck has lost one of the cards that made 10 post so good in top as well....
I think top was one of the cards used so much in so many decks that inevitably it had to go.
I never liked that countertop lock, my 1cc spells almost never go through.
I never saw the card dragging the game, to the point that you wanted to gouge your eyeballs out. I also saw many 'non-blue' players taking a long turn because of an untapped island or two. I doubt wizards is going to ban the island.
lots of Sneak & Show, Reanitmator and Lands decks in my meta right now. Whats the best way to beat these decks that are too good at cheating big dudes into play T1 or T2? Ensnaring Bridge isn't enough because of Iona, Shield of Emeria
Iona is a hard card to beat. We used to have Phyrexian Metamorph but the new legendary rule sort of killed that.
People should stop using 'strictly better/worse' when they don't know what they are talking about.
A Strictly Better card is a card that has one of those when compared to other card:
- Same cost, with the same effect with more value.
- Cost less, with the exact same effect.
- Cost less, with the same effect with more value.
Both Rift and this card can have different effects and cost. So one can't be strictly better.
This card in particular can be also game breaking when being cast at 2 or 3 mana.
I like the perspective but who plays Incinerate? Lighting Bolt is a hard act to follow.
The intent of Coastal Breach is multi-player game. I think 4 to 6 players this card would rock because of the reduce cost, I will expect casual multi player decks will find a use for the card especially 60 card decks. Outside of that I don't see it being played.
It is my understanding that the deck is mono-R because of Wasteland. Even if you play Barbarian Ring, you're not color screwed by losing it.
Sure some players are playing mono red because of wastelands. The best reason to play mono red is simplistic, splashing colors could get you screwed in playing a spell because burn don't draw out cards.
Wizards will most likely never create a 'new' bolt because Modern burn is already a very playable, solid, deck. This is similar to what was the perceived Twin problem that no new good blue cards could be printed, at least good blue draw, because it would make that deck ridiculous.
But I thought wizards said they don't look at older format when they make new cards... I do have a feeling that you are correct.
Quote from from "Nightshade1233" »
Probably the reason they are not doing that is because red burn decks are so non-interactive and solo-play that are either very boring to play with or very boring to play against (and frustrating)...
Most of the time both.
EDIT: talking about my experiences in kitchen-table magic against a legacy burn deck a friend of mine had like 8 years ago.
I think burn is the most interactive deck in the game. There is nothing in that deck that makes you win the game in 3 terns and there is nothing in the deck that stops the opponent from playing there stuff. I don't see the deck being non-interactive.
@Egghead I love mono Red, there is not enough push and the shock lands are a huge cost (life and price).
I would like to play mono red burn in modern but it's lacking a few more burn spells. I've been noticing that wizards had been pushing more aggressive 1cc and 2cc creatures in some of these new sets and I'm wondering if wizards is going to add a few awesome burn spells... or wizards has no such plans...
Affinity is one of those decks types that players will flock to... So Mox Opals and other 'affinity cards' will have sell/trade value.
I think the Developing Tread many have a few answers your looking for:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy
I think you're getting the idea. Eidolon is an awesome creature, he's a burn card advantage (you don't need to keep worrying about that damn top card) and you can play your spells conservatively. I also think Eidolon makes searing blood/blaze more awesome because the opponent most likely hold back from an attack so they can chump block your eidolon.
Cool... I've been playing since 1996. (I kind of thought you were an old school player)
Eidolon 101
You are forcing the opponent to slow down and/or Eidolon will turn your burn spells into finishers!
I would put Eidolon into play as soon as I can... Turn 2. (in most burn decks). I'm actually playing with 2 Chrome Mox but that's personal preference.
Playing Eidolon is a strategery change from your traditional draw-burn-go style. So you are not imposed to top deck draws for every turn. Eidolon has legs and they can attack and block, and some opponents maybe forced to hold a creature back just to block an attactking Eidolon. Depends on situtation.
Usually it's best to lock in a creature. This is why most players play Goblin Guide on turn 1 and turn 2 they would play Eidolon.
I like to follow it with a 2cc Blaze/Blood, before an attack. I would kill a potental blocker, than play Vexing Devil. The devil would stay in play. Or play a 3 damage bolt and follow it with the devil.
This is up to you. I'm not a fan of Swiftspear because half our deck don't make them grow! Swiftspear are also tricky to play with Eidolon because they are not growing until turn 3! So if you have Swiftspear into play on turn 1, it's only dealing 2 damage until turn 3. Goblin Guide would deal 4 damage.
But the weakest card on your deck list is Magma Jet. So I would drop 3 jets and 1 flame rift.
This really depends on you, I do suggest that you should proxy 4 Eidolon's first and see if you like the strategery change.
If your not liking Eidolon because you have a stronger love for Swiftspear (I'm assuming this because you came off very defensive on playing Swiftpear over Goblin Guide), anyway, I think adding a few free spells would be better move. Adding 4 Lotus Petal to a swiftspear burn would make a faster clock.
I hope it helps
Fetches are good but not necessary for mono-red builds.
If your playing with Grim Lavamancer and Searing Blaze - yep fetches is necessary for the the deck.
I had never had any issue with Fetchlands and Flame Rift. The only time I had an issue with Flame Rift is when I'm playing with Eidolon of the Great Revel.
I believe the popularly of Flame Rift started with the response after sacking lands to fireblast. Long, long time ago before magic ban/restricted Fork (yeah the card was ban/restricted) burn players would fork the fireblast for the massive 8 damage. Then when fork was ban/restricted, burn players found Flame Rift as a similar card for the old school burn combo.
In general, I can see playing 2 to 3 Flame Rifts. The card is still harsh for it's 2cc as well as dealing 4 damage to the owner.
I'm a huge fan of Vexing devil and it seems that you have a good idea why the card is so freaking awesome. I rank Vexing Devil higher than Swiftspear... only because, what most burn players seemed to forget is that 18/20 lands + 7/11 creatures (almost half your deck) that don't do anything to make swiftspear to grow.
Sorry but magma jet don't help with land consistency. All the card do is let you peek at the next two cards or allow you to draw the unknown 3rd card instead. You are still going to have mana issues. And worst because you are now playing another 2cc spell with 19 lands.
Blood is good, there is a good number of targets. Personally, I like both cards!
Tricky because it depends on the 6 cards and the person your playing against. Most of the time I'll keep my hand, but I'm playing with 20 lands so I know my odds is drawing up a land within the next 2 turns is good.
Is there a reason why your not playing with Eidolon of the Great Revel?
Sorry but it's not a realistic solution.
Vial is cute but it seemed too much theme-y for my taste.
Eidolon is a main card slot. I would pull out my searing cards for combo. Pillar is a good card, but it don't answer the cards that combo would be using to shield themselves from death.
I like Shriekmaw because of it's Evoke ability and that it can take out almost every 'non-Griselbrand' creature in a show/re-animator deck, as well as goyf. I lost too many games when the opponent play's a 2nd turn Iona. I never really had any issues with Griselbrand. I hate to say it but Ensnaring Bridge don't kill Iona.
As for Chains it does nothing to me. I would like 2 for consistency but I don't have the money to buy a second Chains. Against other decks chains just kills them!
On the sideboard against combo I'm leaning to adding 3 Thorn of Amethyst. I know this sounds insane, but please hear me out. I love Eidolon but the damage can be avoided such as playing Angel's Grace. And some 'good' players could try to combo enough cards so they could regain life with Tendrils of Agony and play the combo again for the win. I used to like Mindbreak Trap but that was before an opponent cast Orim's Chant and combo for the win. Thorn stops all that BS, the combo player is now force to add one extra mana for their spells, and loosing momentum very fast. The downside against us is that our spells cost 1 extra mana, sure we don't have the speed but combo would have a hell of a time pulling off a quick win. I ended up buying 2 more throns, so I could test this out.
Black splash I'm undecided. Maybe a different deck would be appropriate. I love the ability of fast creatures and fast damage, but I'm also looking for something that sucker punches the opponent. I'm open for suggestions.
I'm assuming the worst as in unplayable, if we are talking about worst as in too good such cards like: Mental Misstep comes to my mind.
Red: Book Burning The worst punisher effect!
Black: Misinformation So you take 3 cards from the opponent's graveyard and give it back to them. Sure this could screw up reanimator but I don't know for sure because the cards are not removed from the game.
Blue: Rhystic Scrying 4 mana draw 3 cards and the opponent has the option for you to discard 3 cards.
White: Leeches... What can we say about this card...
Green: Elephant Resurgence , 2 mana elephant token is awesome except if the opponent has more creatures in their graveyard.
Multi-color: Altar of Bone remove a creature from play and search for a creature and put it into you're hand.
I hate scooping to Iona...
I never liked that countertop lock, my 1cc spells almost never go through.
I never saw the card dragging the game, to the point that you wanted to gouge your eyeballs out. I also saw many 'non-blue' players taking a long turn because of an untapped island or two. I doubt wizards is going to ban the island.
Iona is a hard card to beat. We used to have Phyrexian Metamorph but the new legendary rule sort of killed that.
I like the perspective but who plays Incinerate? Lighting Bolt is a hard act to follow.
The intent of Coastal Breach is multi-player game. I think 4 to 6 players this card would rock because of the reduce cost, I will expect casual multi player decks will find a use for the card especially 60 card decks. Outside of that I don't see it being played.
Sure some players are playing mono red because of wastelands. The best reason to play mono red is simplistic, splashing colors could get you screwed in playing a spell because burn don't draw out cards.
But I thought wizards said they don't look at older format when they make new cards... I do have a feeling that you are correct.
I think burn is the most interactive deck in the game. There is nothing in that deck that makes you win the game in 3 terns and there is nothing in the deck that stops the opponent from playing there stuff. I don't see the deck being non-interactive.
@Egghead I love mono Red, there is not enough push and the shock lands are a huge cost (life and price).