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    posted a message on Sram's Expertise
    Quote from 22.55 »
    I cast Sram's Expertise.
    As free spell I cast Collective Effort.

    How does the resolving work?

    - Do I get the 3 servo tokens first?
    - Then I cast Collective Effort.
    - Can I use all the 3 modes of Collective Effort by tapping 2 Servo tokens created by Sram's Expertise?
    Yes, assuming the Expertise resolves, you get the 3 tokens first, then cast Effort, so by the time you cast it, you have the tokens to pay the Escalate additional cost. Expertise goes to the graveyard, and you've got a Collective Effort with all three modes chosen on the stack.

    By the way, you don't need to paste the Gatherer Rulings, it takes more space than it is useful. People who answer just have to follow your card links created by card tags to go check them on the Gatherer site.

    EDIT:
    Quote from VidarThor »
    This is in the wrong section.
    No, here is perfectly fine, especially at this point in time where all info has been officially released. Even during spoiler season, we have no problem with questions about spoiled cards being in the main forum if they are cards officially spoiled by Wizards of the Coast. See this rule of the Magic Rulings forum:
    2.4 Only Official Spoilers. Questions about mechanics or cards from unreleased sets are allowed only if the mechanic or card in question has been officially previewed on wizards.com. If the card is in the MTG Salvation spoiler, the [card] tags should already work, but if they don't, you must use [url] tags to link the card image from the wizards.com card image gallery so that people can look up the card you're asking about. Questions about rumors that have not been officially previewed belong in the Rumored Card Rulings forum in the Rumor Mill. This includes hypothetical or custom card designs, questions about non-existent cards or mechanics belong in the Custom Card Rulings forum in Custom Card Creation.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Wharf Infiltrator : Replace Draw Effect
    Yes, the discard will still happen. See this rule :
    117.12. Some spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities read, "[Do something]. If [a player] [does or doesn't], [effect]." or "[A player] may [do something]. If [that player] [does or doesn't], [effect]." The action [do something] is a cost, paid when the spell or ability resolves. The "If [a player] [does or doesn't]" clause checks whether the player chose to pay an optional cost or started to pay a mandatory cost, regardless of what events actually occurred.
    [...]
    Example: Your opponent has cast Gather Specimens, a spell that says "If a creature would enter the battlefield under an opponent's control this turn, it enters the battlefield under your control instead." You control a face-down Dermoplasm, a creature with morph that says "When Dermoplasm is turned face up, you may put a creature card with morph from your hand onto the battlefield face up. If you do, return Dermoplasm to its owner's hand." You turn Dermoplasm face up, and you choose to put a creature card with morph from your hand onto the battlefield. Due to Gather Specimens, it enters the battlefield under your opponent's control instead of yours. However, since you chose to pay the cost, Dermoplasm is still returned to its owner's hand.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Question about phasing
    No it doesn't. Your creatures phase out only at end of combat, the last step of the combat phase, which is after the combat damage step, where combat damage has been dealt and lethally damaged creatures have been destroyed.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Annihilator Hexproof ruling
    Your interpretation is correct, a player having hexproof won't help against annihilator, because it doesn't target the defending player.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Counter enchantment on previously bestowed aura.
    Quote from TGendek »
    Hi,

    New player here.
    Just a quick question in regards to using Annul (Counter Enchantment) on an already bestowed Aura.
    Example, I'm attacking with a creature that has been bestowed a +2/+2 (e.g. Leafcrown Dryad)(total now 4/4) aura in a previous turn. The creature is attacking the opponent to win the game (opponent 3HP left). Can Annul (instant) be used to counter the Aura for the attacking turn thus leaving my opponent on 1hp?
    Thanks for any help.

    Tim.
    A card is a spell only while it is on the stack, the zone that nonland cards go through when cast, where they can be responded to (notably by things like Annul that counter spells) before resolving and, in the case of permanents such as enchantments, entering the battlefield. Once an enchantment spell has resolved and is an enchantment permanent on the battlefield, Annul can't do anything against it.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on About supertypes, types and subtypes
    We probably can't tell you much more here than what you've already read on Blogatog. That subtypes are tied to specific card types is rooted in the game's design and structure and has more ramifications than you seem to think, and it seems Wizards thinks changing that would be too profound a change and would cause too many issues, the least of which would be flavor nonsense (worse than what already exists) and balance problems. Possibly the most important thing is that some subtypes such as Aura and Equipment have rules attached to them that are incompatible with other card types.
    Quote from Oreth The Centaur »
    Suddenly your Mirror Entity might cause all your creatures to become Equipments enchanting themselves
    There are rules that specify a creature can't be attached to something else and that a permanent can't be attached to itself, thankfully.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Wording Improvise vs. Convoke
    The addendum to the comprehensive rules for Improvise isn't out yet, so we don't have the exact rules text, but everything we know indicates that the functionality is identical (except as you said that it's artifacts instead of creatures and it can only pay for the generic part of the card's cost). What you're quoting is reminder text (the italized text in parenthesis after the keyword). That's not the true rules text, that's a shortened explanation of what the keyword does that doesn't have to be comprehensive and exact in all ways, and that doesn't even have to appear on all cards with the keyword, they put such text when they have the room and they deem it useful enough. The difference between the two reminder texts here would simply be an attempted improvement over Convoke's reminder text, being both shorter and more efficient and mentioning the fact that tapping permanents that way is not the same as activating mana abilities and that it happens later in the casting process, something that was already true with Convoke since its reintroduction in M15.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Puca's Mischief and Dragon Tyrant
    Question asked, question answered. Locking this to avoid it going further into strategy discussion. Lock
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Mindslaver Control
    Mindslaver's controller, so the player you donated it to, is the one who can activate its ability, they're the one who will then control the ability and choose its target and they're the one who'll get to control the target player. That you own Mindslaver and that it ends up in your graveyard when sacrificed is irrelevant.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Ceremonious Rejection
    Quote from treevamp »
    Quote from Artscrafter »

    To get the creature to be on the battlefield, your opponent has to first cast it. This involves announcing that they are playing the card and paying its cost. The card goes onto the stack, a zone where spells and abilities wait to resolve. Before it resolves, both players have the opportunity to respond to it by casting other spells (specifically instants or spells with flash) or activating abilities. It is at this point where you can respond by casting Ceremonious Rejection to counter it.

    In practice, your opponent will announce that they are playing the creature card, and you need to say that you are casting your counterapell at that time.

    Awesome, thank you all for clearing that up and for being patient with a noob like me. Related question: can Ceremonious Rejection destroy a vehicle like Fleetwheel Cruiser? If so, what difference does it make if the vehicle is crewed or un-crewed?
    Rejection can counter a colorless vehicle spell when it is cast, before it resolves and is on the battlefield. Rejection can't do anything to something that is already on the battlefield.

    For other cards that could affect it on the battlefield, the difference between "crewed" and "uncrewed" is that the vehicle is both an artifact and a creature with power and toughness in the former case, and just an artifact in the latter. It's vulnerable to more things as a creature: damage, effects that destroy creatures, etc., in addition to still being vulnerable to things that affect artifacts. For something that would care about color similar to Rejection, it stays colorless either way.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Stack rulings for Kozilek, Butcher of Truth.
    Sure, the sequence you describe could happen exactly that way. Objects on the stack resolve one at a time, and after one does, it is possible to cast or activate new stuff before the next object waiting on the stack resolves. So you can indeed use Phyrexian Reclamation, let that resolve, and then activate Stockpile with the other abilities still on the stack, which will trigger Kozilek a second time on top of it all and make you shuffle your graveyard in before it's exiled.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Legendary Creature Enchantment and Protection from Creatures question.
    Your Chaplain gains the abilities and bonuses in either case, Protection from creatures does nothing against that. Protection from [color or property X] does 4 precise things, that we often help remember with the acronym DEBT :

    -Prevents Damage
    -Makes Enchanting or Equipping illegal
    -Makes it so the creature can't be Blocked
    -Makes Targeting illegal

    ...by what is [color or property X].

    Iroas and Archetype or Agression do not target or enchant Chaplain (enchanting means an aura being attached to a permanent, a non-aura enchantment affecting a permanent is not enchanting it), so Protection doesn't stop him from getting their boons.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Carrying on from illegal move?
    Quote from pulli23 »
    If in such a case the judge wouldn't allow a takeback because I misread something, I would simply walk away from the game not to return to the store. - So be careful with doing that, some people don't like the attitude "it's your fault for misreading".

    Sure maybe the rules state it can't be done - and I can understand and fully accept why the rules say so. But I'm not going to an FNM to play truly competitive: I wish to have fun and test my new made brew with cards I haven't ever used before, against things I've never seen before. That's when I have fun. Misreads are bound to happen in such a scenario, and winning or losing due to a misreading of a public information is just not fun, and there is no honour to be gained.
    Heck I'm annoyed if I *WIN* due to the opponent getting manascrewed/making mistakes. It means I paid money for the FNM without being able to actually truly test my newest deck. - I'm often just suggesting "hey just take 7 new cards instead of 6 or 5, so we can have a good game".

    So I will keep walking off when shops do this kind of judging - if you wish to keep an environment where "winning is everything", sure create it. But remember some people don't care about that and are bound to leave the local scene.
    Allowing a takeback or not here is entirely at the opponent's discretion. Doing so certainly is sporting and commendable, but it can't be enforced. The Head Judge should not, in any case, force the opponent to accept a takeback of a legal play. No matter the level, Magic is a PvP game where games are won by players making mistakes. Omitting to read or misreading something that was accessible to them can lead players to make mistakes, and it is their opponents' choice whether to be lenient or to use that to their advantage. This is official policy, not just some shops' "kind of judging".

    Maybe you do not like this policy, but this isn't the place to discuss our opinions about it. The Rulings forum is to answer questions about game rules, and questions as to what tournament policy is and how it's applied. The question here has been answered, so I'm locking this thread. Lock
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Do -1/-1 counters and +1/+1 counters cancel out?
    Quote from peteroupc »
    Quote from MadMageQc »
    It is true that +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters annihilate each other as a state-based action, BUT the combo still doesn't work, because Psionic Sliver dying from having 0 toughness is also a state-based action. Stated-based actions that are applicable at the same time, happen at the same time, which means that at the last moment it was on the battlefield, Psionic Sliver did still have a +1/+1 counter on it. It's a 0/0 on the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter and 3 -1/-1 counters, and then it's in the graveyard. Undying looks at what it had at it last existed on the battlefield to know if it should trigger, so it doesn't.


    You're missing the fact that none of the four cards mentioned says to put a +1/+1 counter on anything (Mikaeus, for example, gives certain creatures +1/+1, which is not the same).
    I meant the +1/+1 counter that it would get from undying. It's a 3/3, it deals 2 damage to a target and 3 to itself, it dies, it comes back with a +1/+1 counter. I omitted to describe that process and jumped to the point after that part is done for my explanation. But anyway, as snarfblattcheesewizard said,
    The real issue is that Psionic Sliver is a 4/4 due to 2/2 +1/+1 from Mike and +1/+1 from the undying counter.
    Except that with the four cards mentioned, the combo still doesn't really work. You could activate the Psionic ability that Blur Sliver has to have it "finish off" Psionic Sliver, having it coming back with Undying, but that's not enough to generate a productive loop, because Blur Sliver will not be able to "undie" more than once, it will die with a +1/+1 on it if you activate the Psionic ability on it without first removing the +1/+1 counter on it. You could make a loop of the Slivers dying and coming back by having them target each other, but you're not accomplishing anything without yet another card involved.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Do -1/-1 counters and +1/+1 counters cancel out?
    It is true that +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters annihilate each other as a state-based action, BUT the combo still doesn't work, because Psionic Sliver dying from having 0 toughness is also a state-based action. Stated-based actions that are applicable at the same time, happen at the same time, which means that at the last moment it was on the battlefield, Psionic Sliver did still have a +1/+1 counter on it. It's a 0/0 on the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter and 3 -1/-1 counters, and then it's in the graveyard. Undying looks at what it had at it last existed on the battlefield to know if it should trigger, so it doesn't.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Expreiment Kraj and Caller of the Untamed
    You will only be able to make copies of creature cards exiled with cards named Caller of the Untamed. Unlike the (much more common) abilities of cards that simply refer to their source by name ("[name] does something", "cards exiled with [name]"), Caller of the Untamed doesn't use its name as if it means "this object, the source of this ability". That's because it doesn't say "cards exiled with Caller of the Untamed", but rather "cards exiled with cards named Caller of the Untamed". The text of that ability still means the same thing when it's on something else like Kraj.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Conversion and Tomb of Yawgmoth
    Quote from Boyachi »
    So I've been looking into Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and found this errata:
    7/18/2014
    If Urborg loses its abilities (for example, if it becomes a creature and then Turn to Frog targets it), all lands on the battlefield, including Urborg, will still be Swamps, but Urborg won’t have the ability “Each land is a Swamp in addition to its other land types.” Urborg also won’t be able to tap to produce , but other lands (including those that enter the battlefield later in the turn) will. The way continuous effects work, Urborg’s type-changing ability is applied before the effect that removes both the type-changing ability and its own mana ability.

    The scenarios in question are these:
    1-Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Conversion are on the battlefield. I use Magical Hack on 'Tomb to change "swamp" into "mountain".
    Hypothesis: 'Tomb is a plains, and all other lands are mountains in addition to their original types.
    No, all lands are plains. This is a case of dependency: because applying Urborg's effect first changes what Conversion applies to, we apply Urborg first, no matter the order of entrance of the two. It doesn't matter that Urborg loses its ability, because it already applied at that point. The ruling you quoted is for the interaction of Urborg's type-changing effect (layer 4) with ability-removing effects (layer 6). Conversion VS Urborg is layer 4 vs layer 4, so the dependency system is used, see rule 613.7.

    Quote from Boyachi »
    2-Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Conversion are on the battlefield. I Magical Hack on Conversion to change "mountain" into swamp".
    Hypothesis: 'Tombs is a plains, all other lands are swamps in addition to their original types.
    Agian, all lands are plains. It's pretty much the same as in 1-, you make it so Conversion is applicable to all lands because of Urborg, so we apply Urborg first and Conversion applies to all lands.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Vigilance loss
    No. Vigilance makes it so the equipped creature ignores the rule that would make it become tapped as it's declared as an attacker. Once that point in time has passed, that's done, it won't become tapped because it loses vigilance. If you want to force your opponent to have their creature become tapped for them to attack with it, you need to destroy the Cloak before the attack is declared.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Prime Speaker Zegana Question
    He does draw 6 cards. State-based actions aren't involved here: Ascension has a static ability that simply applies to any creature he controls as soon as it exists on the battlefield. So Zegana enters 6/6. But anyway, also note that Zegana's draw ability uses the stack and only checks her power as it resolves, which means he could even do something like cast a Giant Growth on Zegana in response to the ability in order to draw more cards.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Is this legal: Prized Amalgam & Haunted Dead interaction?
    Quote from tmgtcg »

    If he brings back Haunted Dead during my post-combat main phase, technically, he can bring Prized Amalgam at my ending phase, is my understanding correct?
    During the game, at least in my LGS, players including myself hardly mention the phases out loud. Smile
    Yes he can. That's one case where mentioning the phase where things are happening is important.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Is this legal: Prized Amalgam & Haunted Dead interaction?
    It really depends on what was said. He can bring back both of them on your turn, but that requires bringing back Haunted Dead during your second, postcombat main phase at the latest (which, interestingly, opens up a window for you to do main phase stuff afterwards, such as casting a creature spell). If he said something such as "end of turn, I bring back Haunted Dead", then he indeed shouldn't get Amalgam back until then end step of his turn. In any case, he needs to be clear about it; if he's not, ask him what he's doing when exactly. As for you being "cheated", it's probable he activated Haunted Dead on your end step genuinely not knowing it wouldn't work as he wanted; if so, you can hold him up to his mistake and teach him how it actually works, but I wouldn't call foul, that's a common mistake and the difference between your second main phase and your end step is not important enough for this to look shady.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Dawn Charm
    Quote from SamuGelb »
    1.- Doubt for multiple target.
    Dawn Charm can counter Searing Blaze ?
    Yes. Searing Blaze targets you, that it also targets something else doesn't matter, the Charm's condition is satisfied.
    Quote from SamuGelb »
    2.- I not uure how curses work.
    Dawn Charm can counter Curse of the Pierced Heart
    Yes, auras with enchant player are cast targeting a player, so they can be countered by Dawn Charm.
    Quote from SamuGelb »
    3.- Prevent damage and infect.
    Dawn Charm prevent me to get poison of Glistener Elf ?
    Yes, you will prevent the Elf's combat damage, so you won't get poison counters.
    Quote from SamuGelb »
    4.- Regenerate and ETBs
    I get other Clue if Regenrate Thraben Inspector with Dawn Charm ?
    No. Regenerating a creature does not bring it back to the battlefield from the graveyard, it makes it so it's not destroyed. The Inspector doesn't leave or enter the battlefield.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Mother of Runes Questions
    Quote from ox4 »
    Thanks for your reply.

    Just to make sure I have it straight, in practice, if Daughter 1 plays Mother of Runes, daughter 2 has the remainder of that turn to use an instant, and then her own turn to target the Mother of Runes before Mother of Runes can tap. Once daughter 1's next turn starts, Mother of Runes can tap, correct?
    Correct. A creature you control stops being affected by the 'summoning sickness' rule when you begin a turn of yours with it under your control. That's true no matter how long you've controlled the creature before that, you can cast a creature with flash at the end step of your opponent's turn, and it stops being affected as soon as you begin your turn.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Exile target spell with X time counters?
    Moved to Custom Card Rulings.
    Posted in: Custom Card Rulings
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    posted a message on Summary Dismissal Question
    Quote from MaxPhallus »
    Does Summary Dismissal exile the various 'cast' effects of the Eldrazi?
    Casting Summary Dismissal after the cast trigger of a card like Emrakul, the Promised End is put on the stack will both counter the ability (rather than exiling it, but it doesn't make much difference) and exile the creature spell.

    This is no huge deal, but in the future, please post separate questions in their own thread rather than hijacking another thread about the same card, unless your question is a direct follow-up to the thread's previous question and requires that context (especially if that other thread is old). This helps make the Rulings forum a better searchable resource. With your question answered, I'm going to lock this thread, as we want to avoid it becoming a repository for other new questions about Summary Dismissal. Thank you! Lock
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Isn't there any simple way to tell how many Grand Prix byes you have? Why not?
    If you are a Gold or Platinum Pro Players Club member, you have 3 byes at every Grand Prix. If you are a Silver member, you have 2 byes at every Grand Prix. If you won a Grand Prix Trial for a given Grand Prix, you have two byes for that Grand Prix. Otherwise, the information you need to know how many byes you currently have is on Wizards' Planeswalker Points site.

    The current Planeswalker Points thresholds for byes are 1300 for one bye and 2250 for two byes. You have the bye(s) for each Grand Prix until the end of the current Yearly Award Season (until May 28, 2017) if you accumulated enough points either in the last Season (June 1, 2015 to May 29, 2016), or the current one (ending May 28). (They are not added up.) To know your yearly total for last season, click on the underlined word "Yearly" (below "LIFETIME POINTS") on your main Profile page.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Isn't there any simple way to tell how many Grand Prix byes you have? Why not?
    Moved to Magic General from Magic Rulings.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Populate
    No, a Scion of Vitu-Ghazi's ability triggers only when this very Scion enters the battlefield, if this very Scion was cast from your hand. A token copy will not have been cast from your hand, so its ability won't trigger. The fact that the Scion card was cast from your hand won't help, it's not something that's copiable, it's something that needs to be true for the present Scion of Vitu-Ghazi object that would trigger.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Kiora, Master of the Depths Ultimate
    You're actually misreading the ability (don't worry, you're far from being the only one, this precise confusion is frequent with that ability's wording). It's the loyalty ability itself that creates the 3 tokens and it does it only once, as it resolves, after creating the emblem. The emblem's text is only what's within the quotation marks: "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may have it fight target creature." So the emblem is created, then the tokens are created and trigger the emblem.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Malfunction and other enchantments/artifacts
    All cards fit in one of two categories : permanents or instants/sorceries. Every card that isn't an instant or sorcery (creature, land, planeswalker, artifact and/or enchantment) is a permanent, and is thus designed to remain on the battlefied. Auras like Malfunction are a subtype of enchantment, which have the special feature of entering and staying attached to something else. They remain on the battlefield attached to what you chose. So you cast Malfunction targeting an artifact or creature of your opponent (aura spells target as you cast them). If it gets to resolve without disruption, it enters attached to the permanent you targeted. Its triggered ability goes on the stack and taps the permanent if it was untapped. Then Malfunction stays attached and makes it so the permanent doesn't untap as long as it remains attached. An aura can be destroyed by things that destroy enchantments, and if the thing it's attached to leaves the battlefield or becomes illegal to enchant by the aura, the aura becomes unattached, and an aura that isn't attached to something goes to its owner's graveyard.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Protection and multicolor
    A multicolor card that's green and blue is fully green and fully blue. Protection from blue will fully work against it, because it is a blue card. The creature with protection can't be targeted, enchanted, damaged or blocked by it.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on War's Toll and Mana Creatures (Timing Question)
    Quote from Norix89 »
    Quote from user_938036 »
    Ghostly Prison essentially removes the attack clause from War's Toll because the game doesn't force players to pay cost so they can simply not pay and have their creatures not attack.

    I understand that War's Toll can't force my opponent to pay for Ghostly Prison. What I meant is that he actually wants to attack me with his Grizzly Bears (and pay the cost). However, then War's Toll would force his Llanowar Elves to attack, too (if they are able/untapped). If he cannot (or does not want to) pay for Ghostly Prison twice, he should then be forced to attack my other opponent with his elves (fulfilling as many requirements as possible while breaking none of the restrictions).
    But he cannot tap his elves for mana to pay for his bears due to the same reasons as in my first question.
    You're correct for the reasons stated.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Gonti, Lord of Luxury question
    I was playing against my friends Emerge deck this weekend, I cast Gonti & exiled Distended Mindbender, I asked my other friend if I can cast Mindbender with the emerge cost on my own creatures, he was uncertain about that since I would most likely needto cast it for the whole 8 mana.

    So yeah, can use the emerge ability on my creatures when I've used Gonti's ability?
    The first step of casting a spell is putting it on the stack under your control. You thus control it while you pay its costs, and anything the card says speaks to you, so you're able to use Emerge just as if you cast a Mindbender of your own from your hand.

    This is no huge deal, but in the future, please post separate questions in their own thread rather than hijacking another thread about the same card, unless your question is a direct follow-up to the thread's previous question and requires that context. Especially if that other thread is old (3 months in this case). This helps make the Rulings forum a better searchable resource. With your question answered, I'm going to lock this thread, as we want to avoid it becoming a repository for other new questions about Gonti. Thank you for your attention! Lock
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Sensei's Divining Top Question
    You draw 2, then put SDT on top of your library, you can't do it another way. The draw 1 is the first part of SDT's ability; it is replaced by drawing 2, then you proceed with the rest of the effect which is to put SDT on top of the library.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Responding to "This Creature Deals Damage" abilities by giving the creature deathtouch or lifelink
    That's correct, you did find the answer and the relevant rule yourself. Smile
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Krallenhorde Howler + Decimator of the Provinces
    It's 6. You first determine what the cost to cast the decimator will be including the Howler's reduction, then pay the cost including sacrificing the Howler.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Priority 4 sorcery
    Quote from xNeFu »
    Thanks and unless it doesn't show up in preview post I still don't get the card tags thing.. I'm on mobile if that means anything?..
    On mobile, you'll probably need to type the tags. You need to write the full correctly spelled card name, and type [c] before the name and [/c] after it, like this: [c]Harnessed Lightning[/c]. This results in Harnessed Lightning.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Flame Jab + Ancestral Vision Imprinted on Spellweaver Helix
    Yes, that works for the reason you stated. Effects that make you cast a spell without paying its mana cost allow you to cast a spell with no mana cost.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Faerie Artisans Enters Simultaneously
    Quote from Crypt Rat »
    Suppose I have Dawnbreak Reclaimer and an opponent chooses my Faerie Artisans. Will I get a token copy of whatever creature enters the battlefield at the same time?
    Yes you will. Such abilities see other permanents that enter at the same time as the permanent with them.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Mimic Panic...need some clarification please
    Quote from syukrisuffian »
    Does Vile Aggregate enter the field become 3/5 and +1/+0 from Ruination Guide which results it into 4/5 then Eldrazi Mimic copy Vile Aggregate attack/toughness of 4/5 then get its own +1/+0 from Ruination Guide to become 5/5?
    Yes, that's correct. Vile Aggregate enters as a 4/5 since Ruination Guide affects it immediately. It triggers Mimic, and when the trigger resolves, the Mimic's base p/t becomes 4/5. + and - effects like Ruination Guide's always apply over those that set base p/t, so the Mimic ends up 5/5.

    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Vehicle Attack; Colorless Commander
    I'm assuming you're referring to the ability of a card such as Prophetic Prism
    Yes, a card like Prism without a mana symbol on it which adds mana of "of any color" to your mana pool can be played in any commander deck, and it can produce any color during the game. You can use it to, say, pay for the activated ability of something you stole from another player.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Sylvan Library and Enduring Renewal
    Quote from Fall »
    I have both Sylvan Library and Enduring Renewal out. I know the top 3 cards of my library are creatures. What's going to happen when Library goes off?

    I think all three would go to the grave and, since I have no fresh cards in hand, I don't pay any life, but I need to make sure.
    That's correct. Since you drew no cards, you have nothing to put back on top or pay life for.

    Quote from Fall »
    What if only two are creatures? Library says to choose two cards but I only have one drawn this turn.
    You do as much as possible. You either pay 4 life or put that card back.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Noosegraf Mob and Blanchwood Armor
    The bonus that Blanchwood Armor gives is not in the form of +1/+1 counters, it's a continuous effect from the static ability of the Armor, that's different. Something that says it removes counters cannot remove that bonus. Counters are individual marker objects, which are independent once created, and nothing creates counters without using the actual word 'counter'. The way Noosegraf Mob and Blanchwood Armor works is, you still have only 5 counters to remove, and once they're all gone, you don't get to create any more zombie tokens, but the Armor at least keeps the Mob alive by raising its toughness, it stays on the battlefield no matter if players cast more spells.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on I know humility again
    Quote from monroea86 »
    I thought that it doesn't matter when or how the creature got there it still becomes a 1/1. So does this mean morph cards have a way to morph as well?
    Not the ones that are creatures when face up. The way morph works is kinda weird in that the face down permanent has no actual abilities, but you can take the special action of turning it face up for its morph cost, if it would have a morph cost if it were face up. Morph being an ability (even if it's not an activated ability, and it's not an ability the permanent has while face down), because of Humility, a creature card wouldn't have a morph cost if it were face up. A noncreature card like Zoetic Cavern would, since Humility wouldn't affect it, so it can be turned face up.
    702.36e. Any time you have priority, you may turn a face-down permanent you control with a morph ability face up. This is a special action; it doesn't use the stack (see rule 115). To do this, show all players what the permanent's morph cost would be if it were face up, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. (If the permanent wouldn't have a morph cost if it were face up, it can't be turned face up this way.) The morph effect on it ends, and it regains its normal characteristics. Any abilities relating to the permanent entering the battlefield don't trigger when it's turned face up and don't have any effect, because the permanent has already entered the battlefield.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Madness cost order.
    Yes, you can do that. As you cast Tormenting Voice, you discard Temper as a cost, which exiles Temper temporarily and triggers madness, but the madness trigger doesn't go on the stack until you've completed the casting process. It ends up on going on the stack at the same time as Dynavolt Tower's trigger, so you can place them in the order you want, getting energy before the madness trigger resolves and asks you to pay R to cast Temper.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Kolaghan's Command and Spellskite
    Quote from TheDesacrator »
    Spellskite
    Kolaghan's Command

    If my opponent has Spellskite and say a Signal Pest in my play and I use both modes of the Command to deal two damage and destroy target artifact on the Signal Pest, can my oppoent switch the target to itself?
    Quote from Mig2014 »
    Would you have to activate Spellskite's ability twice in order to do that?
    That's a very good heads-up Mig2014, yes you would. One activation of Spellskite will only change a target of the Command, one instance of the word target, even if both instances targeted the same permanent, like TheDesacrator seems to be saying. You can change both, but you have to activate Skite twice.

    From the Gatherer rulings on Spellskite :
    6/1/2011 If the spell or ability has multiple instances of the word “target,” you choose which target you’re changing to Spellskite when Spellskite’s ability resolves.
    6/1/2011 By activating Spellskite’s ability multiple times, you can change each target of a spell or ability with multiple instances of the word “target” to Spellskite, one at a time.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Put a card an opponent owns from exile into their graveyard
    Identity Thief will cause both cards to be exiled (and it becomes a copy of Brisela, Voice of Nightmares). As soon as they leave the battlefield, the two cards become new objects, separate and front face up. They would both return at the beginning of the next end step, but not melded. While they are exiled, Oracle of Dust can "grab" one of them per activation. Any of them that gets put in the graveyard this way won't return with Thief's trigger, because the move from exile to graveyard makes it once again a new object that Thief doesn't track, it can only return the cards it put in exile, from exile.

    EDIT : I read the question as the scenario where Brisela would be exiled by Thief, the above posters are correct that you cannot stop the Meld process with something like Oracle of Dust.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Krosan Grip + Elixir of Immortality
    In the scenario where it's your turn, you get priority first after the Exilir resolves, and you can thus activate its ability before your opponent can do anything. They can respond by destroying the Elixir, but that won't accomplish anything, you still gain 5 life, and shuffle your graveyard (with the Elxir in it) into your library.

    If it's their turn and your Elixir is sitting on the battlefield, they can Grip it anytime they have priority (they get it first in each step and phase, after they cast or activate something, and after anything resolves) and you can't respond by activating it because of Split Second. If you have, say, Leyline of Anticipation and you cast Elixir during their turn, since they are the active player, they're the one who has priority after it resolves, so they can Grip it before you can activate.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Face down in exile...
    Your questions are answered by these two rules, especially the first of them (parts bolded by me for emphasis):
    406.3. Exiled cards are, by default, kept face up and may be examined by any player at any time. Cards "exiled face down" can't be examined by any player except when instructions allow it. However, once a player is allowed to look at a card exiled face down, that player may continue to look at that card as long as it remains exiled, even if the instruction allowing the player to do so no longer applies. A card exiled face down has no characteristics, but the spell or ability that exiled it may allow it to be played from exile. Unless that card is being cast face down (see rule 707.4), the card is turned face up just before the player announces that he or she is playing the card (see rule 601.2).

    406.4. Face-down cards in exile should be kept in separate piles based on when they were exiled and how they were exiled. If a player is instructed to choose an exiled card, the player may choose a specific face-down card only if the player is allowed to look at that card. Otherwise, he or she may choose a pile of face-down exiled cards, and then a card is chosen at random from within that pile. If choosing such a card is part of casting a spell or activating an ability, the chosen card isn't revealed until after that cost is fully paid. (See rule 601.2i.)
    A card exiled face down has no characteristics, so it has no abilities, so a card like Eternal Scourge can't be cast if it's exiled face down. The only way a face down exiled card can be played is if the spell or ability that exiled it (which would normally be external to the card itself) allows it.

    About Gustha's Scepter, it doesn't have Imprint mainly because Imprint itself is just an ability word, a flavor word with no inherent rules meaning that they put on cards of the same set/block to link them thematically, but that they don't feel obligated to put on every card with corresponding functionality. It's the same reason why Inventors' Fair doesn't have Metalcraft on it. While it used to be a keyword at the time of the first Mirrodin, Imprint never really put cards "under the artifact", it used the expression "imprinted on this" and implied a link with the exiled card, but such termilogy isn't required for the link to be established, as you can see on the Oracle text and more recent printings of Imprint cards, e.g. Isochron Scepter.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Quick question about commanders and Exile
    Quote from Gashnaw »
    Quote from peteroupc »
    Oblivion Ring contains a pair of linked abilities (C.R. 607.1): one of them exiles a card, and the other refers to "the exiled card", which, however, only refers to the card if it's still in the exile zone (C.R. 607.2a), so Oblivion Ring's last ability won't work if your commander (not: general) is exiled to the command zone.

    Compare this to Essence Flux or Astral Slide, which exile a permanent, then return it to the battlefield without caring which zone the permanent was placed in when it was exiled, as long as the permanent was moved to a public zone, such as the command zone (C.R. 400.7h, 400.2), and that card doesn't leave that zone (C.R. 400.7).

    Okay so long as it does not say "Return the exiled card" it would come back?
    Yes, that will work as a guideline, but it's actually more about the fact that for Slide and Flux, the card is referred to within the same ability, the same paragraph. You won't find a card similar to Astral Slide that would use "the exiled card" instead still within a single ability. That cards like Oblivion Ring use the wording they do is really tied to the fact that they have two separate linked abilities: rule 607.2a mentioned by peteroupc above is specifically about that.
    607.2a. If an object has an activated or triggered ability printed on it that instructs a player to exile one or more cards and an ability printed on it that refers either to "the exiled cards" or to cards "exiled with [this object]," these abilities are linked. The second ability refers only to cards in the exile zone that were put there as a result of an instruction to exile them in the first ability.


    EDIT : I'm slow this morning, hope this still helps. :p
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Quick question about commanders and Exile
    I will not work with Oblivion Ring, which second ability can only look in the exile zone, but it will work with its "updated version", Banishing Light. It will track the card in the first zone it goes to even if that isn't exile (the command zone rule is currently the only way this can happen, as nothing else replaces going to exile), and it will be able to return it.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Stack ruling
    Note that the order of resolution of the two spells doesn't matter; you can also cast Wild Slash for that effect after Fog resolves. The "can't be prevented" effect will stop Fog's prevention effect from working anyhow ("can't" effects always win over effects that try to do that thing). If you're worried about timing in the declare blockers step, know that all players get priority after the stack empties and that they must take no action and pass priority in succession on an empty stack for the game to proceed to the next step (combat damage step here). So you can indeed still cast Wild Slash after Fog has resolved.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on dice rolling issue with a player.
    Having the possibility of changing the already obtained half of a roll with a trick certainly messes with the randomness of the method. In a tournament setting, a judge can't accept this, even if players agree to both be able to do it.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Cheating at Competitive REL
    Everything that needed saying has been said, time to close this. To sum it up, if you notice or suspect your opponent of doing something wrong or fishy, call a judge (or tell the organizer, who acts as Head Judge if this is a regular REL event with no certified judge present). You can tell the judge your concern away from the table if you don't want your opponent to overhear. That will raise awareness of the behavior and make it more likely to be identified as intentional if repeated. Thanks all. Lock

    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Saskia Question
    What if I used mirror gallery and blade of selves?
    For each token copy myriad creates, you choose an opponent. You could choose the same opponent for all of them if you want. Afterwards, when a creature you control deals combat damage to a player, each Saskia will trigger and cause that creature to deal that much damage to the player chosen for her.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Can I get DQed for this?
    This should be enough explanation for this thread, lock time. Lock To sum it up, you cannot shortcut a process with a random element. Trying to do so unknowingly isn't supposed to warrant a disqualification in itself ("Stalling" is defined as intentionally taking advantage of the time limit), but we don't know exactly what else trespassed between you, your opponent and the judge, so we can only answer in generalities.

    For the future, note that among the rules of the Magic Rulings forum, there's a rule that states we can't discuss disqualifications that were actually given :
    1.2 Do not discuss disqualifications. Do not discuss or ask about a disqualification from a tournament unless information has been made public by the DCI or until the investigation is confirmed to be closed. Investigations in progress should not be discussed by the participants, and discussion by other parties is generally pointless. Also, do not post about illegal activities observed from organizers, judges, or players.
    You can ask about what could or should cause a DQ, but discussing an actual event of a DQ without public info about it available is crossing a line.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Question about instant spells that deal damage or tap creatures
    Quote from jjmarulata »
    What happens if I declare my blockers and after that he uses a spell do deal additional damage to my blocker in order to deal lethal damage to him, does my blocker deal damage to his attacker
    As long as the damage from the spell isn't enough by itself to kill your blocker, and their attacker doesn't have first strike or double strike, yes your blocker will still deal combat damage at the same time as their attacker. If their attacker has first strike or double strike and your blocker doesn't, your blocker would be destroyed before the second combat damage step where "normal" creatures deal their combat damage, so it won't be there to do so.
    Quote from jjmarulata »
    what would happen if my creature has abilities like deathtouch
    Deathtouch on combat damage doesn't matter until the damage is actually assigned and dealt in a combat damage step, all it does is make any amount of damage lethal. Your blocker will still be dealing its damage at the same time as your attacker, it's just that it's sure to destroy the attacker no matter its toughness.
    Quote from jjmarulata »
    or first strike?
    If it has enough power (or also deathtouch, you can see how potent these two abilities are together), your blocker will cause their attacker to be destroyed before the "normal" combat damage step, same as above but reversed. If it's not able to destroy the attacker with its combat damage, first strike won't matter much since the attacker will still be around to deal its combat damage.
    Quote from jjmarulata »
    What would happen if his creature has trample?
    The damage dealt by his burn spell allows him to assign less damage to your blocker and more to you. Damage assignment rules take into account any damage that's already marked on the creature for what's considered 'lethal'.

    Bonus while we're mix-and-matching abilities : if his attacker has deathtouch and trample, he can assign only 1 damage to your blocker since deathtouch makes that lethal (forget about the burn spell, which wouldn't matter here).
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Replacement Effect Question
    Moved to Custom Card Rulings.
    Posted in: Custom Card Rulings
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    posted a message on Tidal Warrior's ability being used at the beginning of the upkeep
    Quote from ReANiMaToR1 »
    Gotcha, thanks MadMageQc.

    So if they didn't have an instant in that situation, can they just tap the swamp in response and float B?
    Yes, but mana empties from the mana pool as any step or phase ends, so if they have nothing to spend that B on in that same upkeep, that'll be in vain.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Tidal Warrior's ability being used at the beginning of the upkeep
    Yes they can. It's not required for there to be a turn-based action in a given phase or step for people to get priority. Upkeep, main phase, beginning of combat, end of combat and end step all are steps and phases that have no turn-based action, but where people get priority. In any step or phase where people get priority, people can cast spells and activate abilities (that's what having priority means), people all get priority before any spell or non-mana ability resolves (like in your example, before Tidal Warrior's ability resolves), and people all get priority before that step or phase can end on an empty stack (in your example, your opponent can even wait for Tidal Warrior's ability to resolve to cast Entomb, as long as they put black mana in their mana pool before their black source becomes an Island.)

    Turn-based actions are things like drawing a card as the first action taken by the active player during his draw step, declaring attackers, declaring blockers (and then the controller of attackers deciding damage assignment order), assigning and dealing combat damage, discarding to maximum hand size in cleanup step.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on 0/0 (or less) creatures entering the battlefield and immediately getting +1/+1 counters
    State-based actions are always checked before any triggered abilities can even be put on the stack. Your 0/0 would trigger Cathars' Crusade, but it would die long before getting counters from it.

    State-based actions are pretty much applied at every relevant point in the game, except while a spell or ability is resolving. Triggered abilities also can't be put on the stack while something is resolving (though they can trigger, and will wait until the thing is done resolving to be put on the stack). First state-based actions are checked, then triggered abilities are put on the stack.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Defensive Formation/Banding and damage assignment order?
    Yes, that's exactly what banding or Defensive Formation allow you to do here.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Soul of Shandalar and Michiko Konda
    Quote from peteroupc »
    Michiko Konda's ability checks who a source's controller is, so if a card has no controller (such as a card in a graveyard), its owner is used instead (C.R. 108.4a). Therefore, the ability will trigger when a card in an opponent's graveyard deals damage to Michiko's controller.
    Interesting, I didn't know about 108.4a, looks like a rule which doesn't come up often, but if there was ever a case for it, that would be it. Thanks.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Soul of Shandalar and Michiko Konda
    Am I right in thinking that using my Soul of Shandalar's ability in my graveyard will not trigger my opponent's Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker, because the source of damage is a card that was in a graveyard, which thus has no controller?
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on When a "source"?
    Yes she would trigger on Lightning Bolt, because that's a spell an opponent controls. Things that have controllers and can be sources of damage are permanents, spells and planeswalker emblems (whose controller is the player who put it in the command zone).

    EDIT : I'm latest to the party, but as I was posting, I wanted to look up some rules to refresh my understanding of the concept of the "controller of a source of damage". The things referred to by rule 119.7 quoted above all happen to have a controller (emblem = face-up object in the command zone), or to have had a controller as they last existed in cases where last-known information is used, so they're all eligible to trigger Michiko. I'm not aware of a card which can deal damage from a zone other than the stack, the battlefield or the command zone, so Michiko can trigger from any damage "from an opponent", I see no examples where damage could be dealt and the source doesn't have a controller.

    EDIT 2 : Found one. Soul of Shandalar. :p Posting a new thread just to be sure, I don't want to spam this one.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Cascade into Bituminous Blast but no legal target
    If you don't cast Bituminous Blast, either by choice or because you don't have a legal target for it (note that you could target your own creature if you have one), it'll stay in exile with the other cards revealed before it, and then go to the bottom of the library with them. Since you don't cast it, its own cascade doesn't trigger­.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Increasing and decreasing casting costs of free spells
    Quote from Bearscape »
    So basically; whilst cost reduction effects decrease the mana cost of a spell (which doesn't matter if the cost is 0), cost increasing effects add a additional cost that is separate from the mana cost

    That makes sense, thanks!
    Not exactly. Both cost increasing effects and cost reduction effects affect the total cost to cast a spell. The base cost can either be the mana cost or an alternative cost ("without paying its mana cost" being a form of alternative cost), and then cost increasing and cost reduction effects (in that order so that they can "cancel" each other, as WizardMN pointed out) apply to that cost to calculate the total cost.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Increasing and decreasing casting costs of free spells
    Yes it's all correct. The last part is because of this rule:
    107.3b. If a player is casting a spell that has an {X} in its mana cost, the value of X isn't defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0. This doesn't apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, "Casting Spells."
    The fact that your Zenith costs 1 because of an additional cost does not make this rule not apply, you're still not paying the card's mana cost or an alternative cost that includes X, so you still can't choose another value for X than 0.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on What Happens When All Steps of Each Turn are Skipped?
    Moved to Custom card rulings.
    Posted in: Custom Card Rulings
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    posted a message on Reyhan & Blade of Selves
    Quote from dLANCER »
    This seems plausible, can a DCI Judge get in on this?
    As rigeld2 said, 13005 is correct. There will be 6 Reyhan triggers, and a total of 18 counters can be placed on the original Reyhan.

    I'm a judge, and I've read in another recent thread that rigeld2 is a L2. But that isn't relevant, and it is considered poor form on this forum to ignore someone's answer just because they don't label themselves as judges. What matters is that we can back up our claims with the rules.

    So here is the rule this ruling is based on :
    603.6d. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward. The game has to "look back in time" to determine if these abilities trigger.
    Example: Two creatures are on the battlefield along with an artifact that has the ability "Whenever a creature dies, you gain 1 life." Someone plays a spell that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact's ability triggers twice, even though the artifact goes to its owner's graveyard at the same time as the creatures.
    This shows that both Reyhan token copies will 'see' each other dying and accordingly trigger twice, in addition to the original Reyhan triggering twice.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Copying Question
    Moved to custom card rulings
    Posted in: Custom Card Rulings
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    posted a message on Some questions on Cascade.
    Quote from Slarg232 »
    I am unsure of what happens if I connect with Yidris and cast Flesh // Blood with Fuse, though. Do I get Flesh // Blood + Cascade of 7? Flesh + Cascade 5 // Blood + Cascade 2? Flesh // Blood Cascade 5?¸
    The CMC of a fused spell is the sum of both halves, so you will cascade for CMC 6 or less.
    702.101b. A fused split spell has two sets of characteristics and one converted mana cost. The converted mana cost of the spell is a number equal to the total amount of mana in its two mana costs, regardless of color.
    Quote from Slarg232 »
    Also, second question, I assume that Kicker doesn't factor into Cascade similar to how Evoke doesn't factor into Cascade, does it? Or is it more like X mana costs where X manaR CMC for Cascade is 1 + :xmana:?
    The CMC of a spell is solely determined by its mana cost, i.e. is what's printed in the upper corner of the card. Additional costs like Kicker do not change it. An X in the mana cost is part of the mana cost, so the value chosen for it will factor in for a spell on the stack like you said (X is treated as 0 everywhere else, though).
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Harness the storm + Galvanic Bombardment
    The Bombardment you cast from your graveyard will deal 2 damage, because the one from your hand is still on the stack at that point: Harness the Storm's trigger went on the stack above it, resolved and had you cast the one in your graveyard also before the one from your hand resolves. The one from the graveyard will be back in the graveyard when the one from your hand resolves, so that one deals 3 damage.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on Thing In the Ice
    The trigger for each spell will go on the stack before you can cast the next, you have no control over that, so this won't work exactly the way you describe. However, you can still achieve the result you want: if what you fear is that the pumps from Mutagenic Growths wouldn't carry over to Awoken Horror, they actually do, it's still the same permanent and the +4/+4 is applied over the back face's printed stats. So you will have your 11/12. You can let the counter-removing triggers from Bolt and the two Growths resolve, then cast Battle Rage, which causes a 4th trigger that transforms the Thing, then Battle Rage resolves and gives it trample and double strike.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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    posted a message on [card] Liliana Heretical Healer
    No. With the legend rule being a state-based action, you will have to put one in your graveyard immediately after Collected Company finishes resolving, before you get priority to sacrifice Fulminator Mage. The remaining Lily triggers from the death of the other and becomes a planeswalker.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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