This really dosen't seem much better than ebay, I can buy it now an M15 complete set for $137 as compared to the $128 for the redemption. A saving of $9. For theros I can get a complete set for 135 or 100-120 from an auction, using redemptions and the website it would cost me $148, the redemption would cost me atleast an extra $13 and could cost me an extra $48. Redemptions used to be a good deal when they only cost $13 but at $28 not so much.
The best "deals" seem to be with smaller set as you can get some of them for $75-$90 with redemptions but for some reason seem to go for similar prices as their larger counter parts.
One thing that is intersting is how much cheaper post redemption sets are, if the online prices of sets fall rapidly just before redemption that might actully be away to make money.
Another thing would be the redemption price of foil sets, which the few times I've seen them tended to go much lower than their physical counter parts.
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- itachiitachi
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Most products are worth far less than the materials that are put into making them,that's because the process/technology to reshape the materials into the final product make up a majority of the cost. Money has legal power backing up their worth. The Mono Lisa in addition to taking many hours from one of the most skilled painters, is a unique item.
Magic cards poses none of these qualities, they are a cheaply massed produced product which some of have value due to artificial scarcity. But if you still think you Mona-Lisa comparison is actually valid, then I'll happily sell you a mass-produced modern made Mona-lisa for only tens of thousands of dollars.
Actually Jace was seeing affinity levels of top 8's even before Jund rotated out and at that time people where making the same arguments they where making now. Even after jund rotated they printed many hate cards that targeted planes walkers but his share of the meta just grew. Also worth pointing out that Jace was considered too slow for Legacy for a quite a while as well.
As Someone who has been playing magic for nearly 20 years I can tell you that magic has not always been an "expensive hobby", and as someone who plays lots of sports calling "buying basic sports equipment that's actually needed to play" "pay-to-not-be-severely-disadvantaged" is disingenuous at best.
Also lots of the why Jace won't be a problem in Modern arguments remind me of the Jace won't be a problem in standard Arguments.
I don't know much about the Jeremy guy or this situation, he seems to be in the wrong and the only thing that makes think he may not be guilty is they heavy handed way the leftest are handling this discussion.
I also want to point out the Irony the many of the people who are in the "words hurt" category are the same people who don't bat an eye at calling people nazis, altright, misogynist, racists and other deliberate mischareteraztions.
The the only reason I'm actually bothering to post here is to correct the gross mischaracterization that seems to have gone undressed.
He opposes compelled speech, not peoples rights, characterizing him that way just shows your unwillingness to understand any view point that opposes yours.
That's hyperbolic, jitte was in less than 40% of top 8 decks at the time.
Those both sound like terrible situations. I think we'll see more of both as more and better staples get printed at mythic.
Prices hardly dropped at all for anything in MM the only thing that really dropped where causal cards and uncommons. I'm sure EMA will have an effect as legacy cards prices are more about scarcity than demand and people are buying this set based on hype/lottery tickets despite it being a losing proposition.
Which is why they can go the expeditions route as stated earlier.
If the selling point of the set is a lottery ticket it's a poorly designed set. EMA/MMA is just WOTC way to cash in on the secondary market.
I doubt WOTC will increase the EV until the sets stop selling. No the last round of expeditions didn't affect their prices but that was only one sets worth of printing. Also I think that there were about one per case, I'm thinking they should be one per booster-box .
Well we saw how well that worked for MM2, after the initial hype it stopped selling, last time I checked you can still buy a box of it for retail. I don't get this mentality on this forum of "it's better to be able buy something you don't want than to have a shot at something you do want". For MM1 none of my LGS hoarded any of the product or raised the price and some of them are scummy stores, nor would it be hard for Wotc to crack down on such behavior.
So it sounds like you agree that the increased cost of standard prices has nothing to do with increasing playerbase.
For all the cards you addressed, It doesn't really matter that they where reprinted ect... the fact is they all held a value above $10 in standard despite having no to little eternal value.
I did a quick check back through the sets from rtr to dragons of tarkir. Looking at the cards that were over $10 due that had atleast half of there value come from other formats, there where under 20 when you remove reprints from that list it dropped to around 5.
EMA is the worst way to do it as the EV =< box cost, if you want to drop prices EV >= box cost. It doesn't really matter if expeditions aren't special I think most players would still be happy to open a card that's worth $50-$200. Also note that RTR which you praised for it's high supply good EV and lower than average prices had a good portion of it's EV in reprints.
1. Supply of standard product can and almost always is printed to meet demand.
2. If it really where a supply/demand issue we'd see a rise in the EV of booster boxes, we don't
Do you have any evedince to back this up or is it baseless conjuncture?
Really let's take a look at the expensive cards from last year, That where over $10 (most over $20) and have little to - no eternal vaule
Elspeth
Courser of Kruphix
Nissa, Worldwaker
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon (has causal value for sure)
Den Protector
Deathmist Raptor
Stormbreath Dragon
Goblin Rabblemaster
Xenagos, the Reveler
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
This is not a full list, these are just cards from the first two decklists I saw.
Also what standard staple mythic settled below $10 while still seeing play?
You realize that cards being powerful in eternal =/= card being powerful in standard. We had goyf in standard, it wasn't a problem, sure it was good but it was fine. Sure there are some cards that shouldn't be in standard and for them the can get the expedition treatment. Problem solved.
Standard prices have nothing to do with the size of the player base, increasing the number of players doesn't affect the price of boosters. The increased cost of standard comes from the increase in the number of cards printed each year, mythic rares, rarity upticks and the faster rotation of cards. Nor would I praise the price of current standard when we just had a card going for nearly $400 a playset. They could address both problems with one simple step. Reprinting staples of older formats in standard sets, which both increases supply and drops standard prices by eating into the box ev. But wotc has decided to do the opposite.
Not really, they didn't change the price of SoI booster packs based on what cards are in the set.
If they make a tarmogoyf pack that contains 1 card which is tarmogoyf and sell it around market price of a tarmogoyf as a sealed product is that not the same as selling singles? (It is)
If they keep the price but make it a deck is that different from the above scenario (you know event decks ect..)? (no)
If they instead take those cards from the deck and separate them into 5 packs that are 1/5th the price of the deck is the scenario now different? (I terms of effect on the secondary market and Wotc making money off it there is no difference)
There is little difference between Wotc selling reprinted singles to stores and wotc reprinting singles packaging them and then selling them to stores except the fact that many players would perceive it differently because they think arbitrary definitions of "sealed product" is means it can't be targeted at the secondary market.
It's also Wotc being involved in the secondary market.
What do you think the masters series, event decks, clash packs ect... are?
They point is that for reprints they can assume direct control over the secondary market without hurting their primary market.
1. What's the difference between selling a card for $100 or it taking $100 dollars worth of booster to get?
2. They basically did that with true-name nemesis
My point is they are already in the secondary market by the method they handle reprints (basically only printing them in precons, or special sets with jacked up prices). I don't see how getting these reprints from a game store rather than directly from Wotc makes it any better.
No it's still a bad analogy since the provider can't arbitrarily manipulate the market prices.
Again no, I pointed out they are basically doing both, just not directly selling reprints to customers but instead through a middle man which really doesn't matter, you said it did matter, I asked why, you provided a really long example to basically say that because if there is a middle man then customers can pay more for better service, I pointed out that that didn't matter and now here we are.