And if you are going with Looting for kind of consistency, why not play Goryo's Vengeance instead of Brain in a Jar?
It is still a lot faster, has synergy with the rest of the deck, and still can swing a game or fuel you to win.
Also, why do we use Dorks, shouldn't Dryad Arbor and Forbidden Orchard be enought to have targets? We could use a few catrips for consistency and less mulligans.
Turn 2 Eldritch Evolution precisely involves saccing Allosaurus Rider. Yes, I've found that the Turn 2 combo is pretty inconsistent. Luckily, late combos can still win games, but I need the fast combo against fast decks such as Infect (I was surprised how good the Infect match-up was for 2 maindeck removal spells and no consistency in the combo), Burn, Ad Nauseam, and Dredge.
Hm.
Is there any use for Dorks exept the turn 2 combo? Because I'm not sure if that is the route to go, although the Summoner's Pact is cute, I give you that.
But I think a deck without Dorks and with more, nicer removal\dig would be better. Also a bit more Delve creatures, so the Rider isn't the only piece.
Also, Abrupt Decay in this should be nice.
I have 8 mana dorks in my build to enable Turn 2 Eldritch Evolution
Turn 2 Evolution into what? Are you going to sac the dork? Then you are getting a 3-drop. That is not very good, not at all.
Turn 1 Dork into Turn 2 Evolution sacing Rider you just cast sounds very inconsistent. And, most probably, you aren't getting your Delve creature up turn 2 by casting a Dork turn 1.
What am I missing?
Why aren't you Allosaurus Rider users stuffing Griselbrand in there? Evolution, Brand, and get +14 cards, bunch of green cantrips, then storm out.
There is no consistent shell out there, no need to think of a creature suit yet.
Wow, a deck in modern that legitemately caught my interest...Huh.
Anyway.
Why do you guys all toss dork and other stuff? Are they nessesary in any way?
I thought that our plan was "cheat in Allosaurus Rider/Gurmag Angler/some other Delve creature, Eldritch Evolution it into fatty, proceed to win game"? So, why everyone keep putting droks in? If we want to ramp, shouldn't Rampant Growth-type cards be better? Or, at least, Wild Growth-type cards then?
And why do we want to ramp in the 1st place?
In my experience, the deck I posted fairs extremely well against swarmy decks. The way the games play out is that you have similar curves with the exception that your creatures predominantly have ETB abilities so you win in an attrition match. Lone Missionary and Sylvok Lifestaff are also great at buying you time. I don't think I've ever lost a match to WW or Burn. Stompy and Affinity are probably 60/40 in your favor preboards and you have more to sideboard against them than they have against you. The best way to look at it is that it is a control deck that instead of using a Teachings draw engine and removal as answers, uses two for one creatures, and lifegain as answers. As cards such as Lone Missionary are straight up two-for-ones against aggro while Chainer's Edict is a one-for-one and sometimes doesn't even do what you want it to do, the deck has a favorable matchup against aggro, certainly better than does Teachings control. The deck also can't lose to MBC as all of your creatures are two-for-ones, rendering removal useless, and you have more card draw in the end game.
There is a point also that the deck I have in mind seems more like a combo deck rather than a grindy one. And I actually would like it to be combo'y...
Basicly I just feel that deck I have and mind and the one you posted are very different, although they use the same engines. Well, at least partially.
It's interesting that you mention Crypt Rats as that card has nearly entirely fallen out of favor in the Pauper community. It's generally too slow to be great against aggro. It costs 3 to cast and generally at least 2 to wipe the board, meaning 5 total mana. Also, when you are playing against aggro the life loss is a big downside. Evincar's Justice has replaced it in Teachings deck as it costs 4 instead of 5+ and you have the option to use its rebuy ability as a finisher in conjunction with a manabase that gains a ton of life.
Huh. That seems kinda strange, with all the good lifegain pauper has (holy sh** Sylvok Lifestaff is common) and that Evincar's Justice is an overcosted Pyroclasm that doesn't kill everything you would want, while Crypt Rats does and also tears your opponents face off in the coffe breaks.
Well then...
I've seen people running a Trinket Mage package as Trinket Mage can find singletons of both Lifespark Spellbomb and Viridian Longbow both of which are poor man's finishers plus the artifact lands making it a functional Civic Wayfinder and 1x Darksteel Citadel because it's indestructible for your Zendikons. However, as Lifespark Spellbomb is worse than Wind Zendikon as it requires mana to activate and Viridian Longbow is more difficult to combo with, I'm skeptical of that package.
It actually sounds like Darksteel Citadel and Wind Zendikon will serve as a second win condition, with Zendikon being on double-duty. The exact reason why I didn't like the deck much is that it is vunerable to removal and useless if you can't go the Freed from the Real route. This idea seem to fix it. Great, thanks for suggestion!
I took this list to a 4-1 finish in a league recently. As League is very competitive I'll chalk that up to a success. I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but it can provide a foundation for tweaking if you want to run some sort of Cloudshift, Momentary Blink type engine. One change I would make is cutting the Viridian Longbow for a land.
I'm kinda not sure I want to run U/W colors, that is one of the problems. How will you deal with Stompy, Affinity, WW and other swarmy decks, without Crypt Rats?
I'm not sure only Sunlance and Journey to Nowhere is enough. So I wanted to go B/W, but not sure how the deck look like?...Well, exept 4x Crypt Rats, obviously ^^'.
Also, what Morph creatures you would choose? There are a lot of them, and I have no idea whitch of them are good against current meta in Pauper?
Ye, I saw this thingy, but it is filled with different variations on Delver, some other stuff and has almost nothing I'm interested in, sadly.
They even don't have the seemingly popular Tortured Existence decks in there.
2) Tickets cost a US dollar from the in-game store, or you can win them from events. Players can trade them like cards, or spend them on event entry. That's pretty much the ticket system in a nutshell.
And the Player Points thing? You use Tickets to enter tournaments and Point to enter tournaments, and then Points get kinda redundant?...
I wasn't much into it in the first place to be honest, because I am one of those lucky bastards who decided to join the club exactly when Treasure Cruise hype was strong and when Wizards decided to nerf pauper dailies. So it wan't very interesting to begin with.
But now the dust has settled and I'm back for more!
Now, I have a few questions:
1) What can I expect from Pauper metagame currently exept the "play Gurmag Angler or die"?
2) I have zero idea how the new ticket-something-something-points tournament system works. Can I have a brief explanation?
3) Currently I'm interested in playing two decks: Cloudshift-Morph-something, and Freed from the Real combo. Can I have some curently relevant lists of those decks? Or some place where I can find relevant Pauper decklists for something exept Delver?
Assuming you just had the above list and swapped the Marsh Flats for something else, I would be most concerned seeing Arid Mesa. That would make me think that perhaps you are running burn and I may end up playing accordingly, making some potentially disadvantageous plays to avoid falling into easy burn range.
Honestly, I don't think any would have much impact on me, since fetching up a basic plains can kind of give away that they are just for landfall. This is from the perspective of playing UW Tron against you, so a more aggressive opponent could potentially be convinced of you saving life points and just not needing the red for the moment.
What I'm saying is that if you have Marsh Flats and not other white fetches, I wouldn't worry about what ones you are using, but if you have them all anyway, I would recommend Arid Mesa.
Thanks for the comment! This matches up pretty much exactly with what I was originally thinking: Red = burn, Boros Charm, etc., but the jig is up when I fetch a basic Plains.
I don't own fetches, so I'll probably get the Marsh Flats since they're the cheapest*, but eventually I'll upgrade to Arid Mesa.
*When I buy cards, I like getting original printings.
I'm not sure he will be usefull in my deck, since people here barely run artifacts.
I honestly feel like this list needs to play similar to a Nin/Keranos list; slow it down, and drag the hell out of it until you cast your win con. Or apocalypse..just not a fan of it.
I seriously have no idea how a Jhoira list should look like in duel commander. So this list looks like this not because I like it, but because I have little idea about how to build this deck. Hence why I asked for help ^^'
Legacy is one of the most artificial environments in the whole game. One shouldn't emulate to drive the game towards that, and neither should interactions in Legacy inform modern design decisions.
Hey, the only reason I mentioned Legacy was that 1st thing that came to my mind was Wasteland. That doesn't mean that I want everything to be Legacy. Don't jump into conclusions pwease ^.^
I understand (if correctly) that you are saying that printing lands that are too good can make broken stuff happen, like Amulet Bloom or Tron or stuff, but what I'm trying to say is that it won't be broken since we have good enough "punish greedy manabase" cards, that help to fight Tron and Amulet in current Modern, if we speak Modern.
That means we have some breathing room to design interesting lands, like above, and be okay with it, am I right?
Otherwise, in order to incentivise basics again, you begin to design radically strong nonbasic land destruction. Then what? You've got this weird feedback loop where you are periodically forced to switch between more basic and more nonbasic land bases to deal with either stronger decks with stronger manabases, or decks with land destruction.
We don't need to design strong LD because we ALREADY have stuff to counter greedy manabases in both Modern and Legacy.
Ask anyone - you can't play Legacy without basics in your deck or you will lose to Wasteland.
That means that you already can't play competitvely without basics, and that means that no nonbasic land is better than a simple basic.
The ONLY nonbasic land that will be strictly better than a basic is a colored indestructable one. And Blood Moon still exists. I have no idea how we can make a land that will be strictly better than a basic at all in fact ^^'
But let's not talk about that anymore since we actually derailing the discussion.
"Strictly" used to mean "strictly", i.e., there were ZERO instances where you would prefer one card to another
I know, that is why I mentioned the Wasteland/Blood Moon stuff, since it is the only situation where I would like a basic over a dual.
But enough of that.
I think the better question is whether your environment leaves a role open for basics to play in competitive decks. I don't think that the lands I'm proposing rule that out.
Not even that, at least in Modern it gives an interesting dillema between the Fetchlands and those, eh, almost duals I guess? ^^'
In 3 colour decks it will be a nightmare to create manabases, interesting stuff will start to happen, yey!
It is still a lot faster, has synergy with the rest of the deck, and still can swing a game or fuel you to win.
Also, why do we use Dorks, shouldn't Dryad Arbor and Forbidden Orchard be enought to have targets? We could use a few catrips for consistency and less mulligans.
Hm.
Is there any use for Dorks exept the turn 2 combo? Because I'm not sure if that is the route to go, although the Summoner's Pact is cute, I give you that.
But I think a deck without Dorks and with more, nicer removal\dig would be better. Also a bit more Delve creatures, so the Rider isn't the only piece.
Also, Abrupt Decay in this should be nice.
Turn 2 Evolution into what? Are you going to sac the dork? Then you are getting a 3-drop. That is not very good, not at all.
Turn 1 Dork into Turn 2 Evolution sacing Rider you just cast sounds very inconsistent. And, most probably, you aren't getting your Delve creature up turn 2 by casting a Dork turn 1.
What am I missing?
There is no consistent shell out there, no need to think of a creature suit yet.
Anyway.
Why do you guys all toss dork and other stuff? Are they nessesary in any way?
I thought that our plan was "cheat in Allosaurus Rider/Gurmag Angler/some other Delve creature, Eldritch Evolution it into fatty, proceed to win game"? So, why everyone keep putting droks in? If we want to ramp, shouldn't Rampant Growth-type cards be better? Or, at least, Wild Growth-type cards then?
And why do we want to ramp in the 1st place?
Thank you for answering.
A tiny update: Suddenly there is a blue 1 mana Cloudshift as in Essence Flux. Huh. What was the fuss about U/B Trinket something-something?...
I'll definitly look into it, thanks!
There is a point also that the deck I have in mind seems more like a combo deck rather than a grindy one. And I actually would like it to be combo'y...
Basicly I just feel that deck I have and mind and the one you posted are very different, although they use the same engines. Well, at least partially.
Huh. That seems kinda strange, with all the good lifegain pauper has (holy sh** Sylvok Lifestaff is common) and that Evincar's Justice is an overcosted Pyroclasm that doesn't kill everything you would want, while Crypt Rats does and also tears your opponents face off in the coffe breaks.
Well then...
It actually sounds like Darksteel Citadel and Wind Zendikon will serve as a second win condition, with Zendikon being on double-duty. The exact reason why I didn't like the deck much is that it is vunerable to removal and useless if you can't go the Freed from the Real route. This idea seem to fix it. Great, thanks for suggestion!
I'm kinda not sure I want to run U/W colors, that is one of the problems. How will you deal with Stompy, Affinity, WW and other swarmy decks, without Crypt Rats?
I'm not sure only Sunlance and Journey to Nowhere is enough. So I wanted to go B/W, but not sure how the deck look like?...Well, exept 4x Crypt Rats, obviously ^^'.
Also, what Morph creatures you would choose? There are a lot of them, and I have no idea whitch of them are good against current meta in Pauper?
P.S. Sylvok Lifestaff is common, holy cow.
Ye, I saw this thingy, but it is filled with different variations on Delver, some other stuff and has almost nothing I'm interested in, sadly.
They even don't have the seemingly popular Tortured Existence decks in there.
And the Player Points thing? You use Tickets to enter tournaments and Point to enter tournaments, and then Points get kinda redundant?...
But now the dust has settled and I'm back for more!
Now, I have a few questions:
1) What can I expect from Pauper metagame currently exept the "play Gurmag Angler or die"?
2) I have zero idea how the new ticket-something-something-points tournament system works. Can I have a brief explanation?
3) Currently I'm interested in playing two decks: Cloudshift-Morph-something, and Freed from the Real combo. Can I have some curently relevant lists of those decks? Or some place where I can find relevant Pauper decklists for something exept Delver?
Thanks in advance everyone!
I'm not sure he will be usefull in my deck, since people here barely run artifacts.
I seriously have no idea how a Jhoira list should look like in duel commander. So this list looks like this not because I like it, but because I have little idea about how to build this deck. Hence why I asked for help ^^'
Hey, the only reason I mentioned Legacy was that 1st thing that came to my mind was Wasteland. That doesn't mean that I want everything to be Legacy. Don't jump into conclusions pwease ^.^
I understand (if correctly) that you are saying that printing lands that are too good can make broken stuff happen, like Amulet Bloom or Tron or stuff, but what I'm trying to say is that it won't be broken since we have good enough "punish greedy manabase" cards, that help to fight Tron and Amulet in current Modern, if we speak Modern.
That means we have some breathing room to design interesting lands, like above, and be okay with it, am I right?
We don't need to design strong LD because we ALREADY have stuff to counter greedy manabases in both Modern and Legacy.
Ask anyone - you can't play Legacy without basics in your deck or you will lose to Wasteland.
That means that you already can't play competitvely without basics, and that means that no nonbasic land is better than a simple basic.
The ONLY nonbasic land that will be strictly better than a basic is a colored indestructable one. And Blood Moon still exists. I have no idea how we can make a land that will be strictly better than a basic at all in fact ^^'
But let's not talk about that anymore since we actually derailing the discussion.
I know, that is why I mentioned the Wasteland/Blood Moon stuff, since it is the only situation where I would like a basic over a dual.
But enough of that.
Not even that, at least in Modern it gives an interesting dillema between the Fetchlands and those, eh, almost duals I guess? ^^'
In 3 colour decks it will be a nightmare to create manabases, interesting stuff will start to happen, yey!