Playing various builds of UW / UWr control (not midrange) and I'm really pleased with most matchups except GBx / jund decks. Obviously the thoughtseizes and Inquisition of Kozilek make it really hard to interact early with counters, removal or anything relevant, and we wind up topdecking against a board of Lilianas and Goyfs and Manlands.
I know it can be a little clunky, but what is your experience / opinion of Leyline Of Sanctity? If you pull one in your opening hand, you have essentially mulliganed, but have probably also blanked 1 or 2 cards in their hand, which they cannot possibly cast at this point. Also protects you from Liliana of The Veil making you sacrifice creatures or going ultimate. Protects against slaughter games as well.
Of course we have to devote 3-4 sideboard slots for this to be consistent, but Leyline also beats or creates an inconvenient roadblock for
-Scapeshift / Valakut
- Storm
- Assault Loam
- Boarding in 1 or 2 against RDW / Burn is actually fine also.
- Ad Nauseum lightning Storm
- Turns off Gifts Ungiven for opponents
- Random Mill Decks
- UWR Control can't bolt/snap/bolt you out of the game
- The Rack (lol)
- Eggs (turns off pyrite spellbomb
I can see liking gideon enough to not cut him, personally, I love gideon too. However, every spell in my deck besides wrath of god and supreme verdict are instant speed. I cut my gideons and elspeths for an extra vendilion clique(2 of, by far my fav card in the deck) and 3 restoration angel. I've never looked back, restoration angel is just bonkers in almost every matchup, and allows us to keep up counters or snapcaster. It's nearly impossible for an opponent to see you with UUUW open and be able to play around BOTH Cryptic Command AND Resto.
Sphinx's rev is great at late game re-stocking your hand, gaining a few extra life, or just drawing a couple cards when you can, but white sun's zenith is a great way to actually win the game in a more permission based list that likes to do things EOT rather than main phase. The rest of the deck can just be sweepers, cheap removal, and catch-all counters with some cantrips. Simple, effective, proven.
Yeah overall I like the leyline of sanctity over the red circle, just because it is also good against scapeshift, storm, random rogue mill decks, ad nauseum, etc.
Well, Runed Halo is a fantastic maindeck, enchantment based answer against combo. The only trick is, are there any tap out oriented cards that beat Tron consistently?
Ok Just kidding then, turns out a bunch of permission is the way to go. In fact, I don't even like tapping out for gideon (even though I'm sure this will change sooner or later) Currently I'm running a list that is similar to Riccardo Biava's 1st place UW control, where mostly everything is instant speed besides wraths. It can apply some early pressure or just win late game with a white sun's zenith and tap any/all blockers with a Cryptic.
Before anyone asks, yes, 2 timely reinforcements main is bonkers against all the right matchups. Especially with Snapcaster buying them back.
The deck has a lot of consitent, hard to beat draws against any deck. Even on the draw, turn 1 spell snare, followed buy mana leak, followed buy Clique, followed buy restoration angel re-triggering clique, or just holding cryptic command to protect clique, is VERY good and quite consistent. With 26 land you aren't likely to get mana screwed early, you do have some cheap cantrips in remand and shadow of doubt (SOD can be anything you like, think twice , serum visions, etc.) so your main card draw is 2 Rev's and a Jace's Ingenuity.
Obviously you win a lot of games with angels and Celestial Colonnade, but White Sun's Zenith is very real, even in the mid game casting it for 2 or 3 at instant speed to stabilize.
Sideboard is going to be Engineered Explosives, mainly for boggles and aggro, some catch all combo hate (Runed Halo), and Leyline of Sanctity, as a way to shut out scapeshift, burn, mill, storm, etc, and because I hate discarding cards to rack-style decks.
PS: Yes I know there are Angel's and no Wall of omens. This is actually completely fine. Angel's are as good as ever, generating surprise blockers and providing a clock of some sort. Rebuying Snapcaster or Clique is ADDED value but not something we should break our backs to do. Many decks just simply hate seeing a T4 eot Restoration Angel onto an empty board, because now they have to spend resources or get put down to 8 within a few turns.
Looks like I forgot to include the celestial colonnades. So, yes, 26 lands, and an additional win con. This is almost an exact replica (with a few improvements) of Tap out decks from zendikar standard.
Also, I'm aware I don't have maindeck counterspells, did you read my description?
I assure you wall of omens can be played without restoration angel, we did it for years, lol. I played dissipate in the board because we just want some cheap catch all counters in our bad matchups. If you read my description, I say this is very different from my other preferred deck (snaps / cryptics / cliques) because I'm anticipating a heavy aggro metagame. Come on man...
First off, let me start by saying that yes, we are soft to combo in game 1. I'm expecting the field to be mostly aggro / midrange, so I wanted to dedicate myself to that game one without spreading myself to thin, trying to combat the whole field at once. Runed Halo is SUPER good against scapeshift, twin, storm, etc. game one, so we just cross our fingers. The bottom line is, we aren't afraid to go to game 2. Over 50% of your tournament games will be post board, so being soft to a specific deck type in game 1 is not that big of a liability, especially when I'm making a metagame prediction based on what I expect to see. Game 2 versus combo (scapeshift / twin / storm, etc) we have meddling mages, leylines, negates, dissipates, etc and of course the all star Vendilion cliques, to play a completely different game than we played game one.
Also we have the distinct advantage of being able to leave two mana up and telegraph heavily that we are holding mana leak. Most people will play around it, and this works to our advantage. The oblivion ring effects are bad against abrupt decay, but good against most of the rest of the field, so we will take the chance. Again, they can be boarded out easily.
It kills me to not be running cliques maindeck, along with snapcaster and 4 full-art cryptic command, but I actually think this deck is neat, and has potential in the current metagame.
4 main deck spreading seas with baneslayers seems good against against tron.
So looking at the new Starcity Games results from the Invitation Qualifier tonight, Bloom titan is firs place, followed by various aggro decks. Various builds of RDW, Affinity, Elves, etc. No Jund / Junk or scapeshift/ramp anywhere in the top 16.
So that being said, what is your experience with kitchen finks? I really want to like it, but it just feels so clunky. I would almost rather play timely reinforcements.
Do you have a list? I can definitely see how you are right about the angel, however it seems even better to be able to leave up cryptic command or snapcaster/leak mana, and then just flash in Angel EOT if they didn't do anything relevant that you needed to counter. Some people are replacing Elspeth with the angel, claiming that she is just too clunky and sorcery speed. I love her, she is my favorite (legal) planeswalker, but I can kind of see how Angels could replace her, still keeping gideons and counter magic.
So how good is Restoration Angel in control builds? I don't want to get to deep into playing creatures, but since I'm already running (and LOVING) 2 vendilion clique , and loving how much 3 damage in the air adds up over a few turns, it seems hard to argue against 2-3 restoration angel simply as a beater. Sure it has good value with wall of omens and clique, but by itself, a 3/4 flash flier is great for us to be able to apply pressure but not tap out and leave ourselves vulnerable and unable to use countermagic. I don't want to get into playing a bunch of Geists and other stuff, I think we should stay firmly as a control deck. I'm visualizing using the angel and clique just for pressure, and if they die, it's ok, because we will still have celestial colonnade and gideon jura, etc.
It just seems like one of the main flaws with our game plan is a lack of pressure, and Resto Angels seem like an easy, effective, risk free way to accomplish that.
What is everyone else's opinion of the card in our builds, used simply for pressure in a predominantly control build? So far in testing , it seems great
Been testing this list against Goyf decks / Twin decks / and affinity. Tonight I'll be testing against Bloom Titan and various other midrange / aggro / combo. So far it's been completely bananas.
guys, these suggestions have been very insightful and practical. Will be testing a variety of these ideas, luckily my LGS does modern EVERY friday for fnm, so I will plan on reporting back here saturday morning with my findings!
Hey guys, quick question that would really help me out. I'm a dedicated control player toying with different UW and UWR builds, also possibly esper. I've been performing incredibly well against most of the field, but can never seem to gain any advantage or value when facing Jund or Junk.
From YOUR perspective, what are Jund / Jund worse matchups, and what cards do you hate seeing the most, preferably that would be playable in control decks. What cards do you fear most when playing, or at least, what opposing cards annoy you and make your game much more difficult?
I know it can be a little clunky, but what is your experience / opinion of Leyline Of Sanctity? If you pull one in your opening hand, you have essentially mulliganed, but have probably also blanked 1 or 2 cards in their hand, which they cannot possibly cast at this point. Also protects you from Liliana of The Veil making you sacrifice creatures or going ultimate. Protects against slaughter games as well.
Of course we have to devote 3-4 sideboard slots for this to be consistent, but Leyline also beats or creates an inconvenient roadblock for
-Scapeshift / Valakut
- Storm
- Assault Loam
- Boarding in 1 or 2 against RDW / Burn is actually fine also.
- Ad Nauseum lightning Storm
- Turns off Gifts Ungiven for opponents
- Random Mill Decks
- UWR Control can't bolt/snap/bolt you out of the game
- The Rack (lol)
- Eggs (turns off pyrite spellbomb
Thoughts?
Sphinx's rev is great at late game re-stocking your hand, gaining a few extra life, or just drawing a couple cards when you can, but white sun's zenith is a great way to actually win the game in a more permission based list that likes to do things EOT rather than main phase. The rest of the deck can just be sweepers, cheap removal, and catch-all counters with some cantrips. Simple, effective, proven.
4x Mana Leak
4x Cryptic Command
3x Spell Snare
1x Remand
2x Snapcaster Mage
3x Restoration Angel
4x Path to Exile
2x Wrath of God
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Jace's Ingenuity
2x Shadow of Doubt
1x White Sun's Zenith
Before anyone asks, yes, 2 timely reinforcements main is bonkers against all the right matchups. Especially with Snapcaster buying them back.
The deck has a lot of consitent, hard to beat draws against any deck. Even on the draw, turn 1 spell snare, followed buy mana leak, followed buy Clique, followed buy restoration angel re-triggering clique, or just holding cryptic command to protect clique, is VERY good and quite consistent. With 26 land you aren't likely to get mana screwed early, you do have some cheap cantrips in remand and shadow of doubt (SOD can be anything you like, think twice , serum visions, etc.) so your main card draw is 2 Rev's and a Jace's Ingenuity.
Obviously you win a lot of games with angels and Celestial Colonnade, but White Sun's Zenith is very real, even in the mid game casting it for 2 or 3 at instant speed to stabilize.
Sideboard is going to be Engineered Explosives, mainly for boggles and aggro, some catch all combo hate (Runed Halo), and Leyline of Sanctity, as a way to shut out scapeshift, burn, mill, storm, etc, and because I hate discarding cards to rack-style decks.
PS: Yes I know there are Angel's and no Wall of omens. This is actually completely fine. Angel's are as good as ever, generating surprise blockers and providing a clock of some sort. Rebuying Snapcaster or Clique is ADDED value but not something we should break our backs to do. Many decks just simply hate seeing a T4 eot Restoration Angel onto an empty board, because now they have to spend resources or get put down to 8 within a few turns.
Also, I'm aware I don't have maindeck counterspells, did you read my description?
I assure you wall of omens can be played without restoration angel, we did it for years, lol. I played dissipate in the board because we just want some cheap catch all counters in our bad matchups. If you read my description, I say this is very different from my other preferred deck (snaps / cryptics / cliques) because I'm anticipating a heavy aggro metagame. Come on man...
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Hallowed Fountain
4x Island
2x Marsh Flats
1x Mystic Gate
3x Plains
2x Scalding Tarn
3x Tectonic Edge
3x Baneslayer Angel
4x Wall of Omens
1x Condemn
3x Runed Halo
4x Path to Exile
2x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Wrath of God
2x Detention Sphere
1x Oblivion Ring
4x Spreading Seas
1x Batterskull
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2x Gideon Jura
3x meddling mage
3x negate
2x dissipate
3x leyline of sanctity
2x celestial purge
2x vendilion clique
First off, let me start by saying that yes, we are soft to combo in game 1. I'm expecting the field to be mostly aggro / midrange, so I wanted to dedicate myself to that game one without spreading myself to thin, trying to combat the whole field at once. Runed Halo is SUPER good against scapeshift, twin, storm, etc. game one, so we just cross our fingers. The bottom line is, we aren't afraid to go to game 2. Over 50% of your tournament games will be post board, so being soft to a specific deck type in game 1 is not that big of a liability, especially when I'm making a metagame prediction based on what I expect to see. Game 2 versus combo (scapeshift / twin / storm, etc) we have meddling mages, leylines, negates, dissipates, etc and of course the all star Vendilion cliques, to play a completely different game than we played game one.
Also we have the distinct advantage of being able to leave two mana up and telegraph heavily that we are holding mana leak. Most people will play around it, and this works to our advantage. The oblivion ring effects are bad against abrupt decay, but good against most of the rest of the field, so we will take the chance. Again, they can be boarded out easily.
It kills me to not be running cliques maindeck, along with snapcaster and 4 full-art cryptic command, but I actually think this deck is neat, and has potential in the current metagame.
4 main deck spreading seas with baneslayers seems good against against tron.
So that being said, what is your experience with kitchen finks? I really want to like it, but it just feels so clunky. I would almost rather play timely reinforcements.
It just seems like one of the main flaws with our game plan is a lack of pressure, and Resto Angels seem like an easy, effective, risk free way to accomplish that.
What is everyone else's opinion of the card in our builds, used simply for pressure in a predominantly control build? So far in testing , it seems great
4x Celestial Colonnade
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Hallowed Fountain
4x Island
2x Marsh Flats
3x Plains
1x Scalding Tarn
3x Tectonic Edge
2x Temple of Enlightenment
2x Delay
4x Mana Leak
4x Path to Exile
2x Sphinx's Revelation
3x Supreme Verdict
2x Runed Halo
4x Spreading Seas
2x Gideon Jura
2x Vendilion Clique
3x Wall of Omens
Super fun to play, doesn't have to many poor draws. Has maindeck answers and disruption for mostly everything. Try it out.
From YOUR perspective, what are Jund / Jund worse matchups, and what cards do you hate seeing the most, preferably that would be playable in control decks. What cards do you fear most when playing, or at least, what opposing cards annoy you and make your game much more difficult?
Thanks for the insight, good games to all!