Hi all. Long time lurker. I've been out of modern for a while. Is Delver still decent? I'm basically looking to have a deck that I can keep around that won't get banned.
I would get another Goblin Lore. Lore, to me is a 3-4 of card. Flamewake Phoenix I'm guessing is not there due to the lack of 4+ power dudes?
Are you planning on the deck being non-budget long term?
You could do RB pain lands, and start getting fetches and a blood crypt to run the BR mana base as well. The pain lands are a reasonable substitute for fast lands.
Awesome! Bogles is often a great meta deck. We tend to be strong when sideboards are turned too heavily to fight one thing. The lack of engineered explosives in the boards is really helping us, I think.
In my experience Ponza is a tough matchup. We are so land tight that if we stumble it can be hard to recover. We spend all of our time dredging Loam just to keep out gameplan going, but that really slows our dredge clock. They are really good at making us go long, and that's a game they are better at.
What bothers me about the Faithless Looting discussion is it seems like complaining and finding fault where none exists.
How many black decks play Thoughtseize? 23%. Do we say black based decks are built off of the backs of hand disruption? Yes, actually sometimes we do.
How many blue decks play Serum Visions? 21%. Do we say blue's strengths are built off of card selection? More so in legacy, but sometimes in modern. '
Faithless Looting is 26%.
Lightning bolt is 40%.
This card is NOT Mental Misstep or Gitaxian Probe. Those are what broken single cards that are used across multiple strategies look like.
Meta share for these cards are almost indistinguishable. Looting effects are a central effect to red's color identity in modern. Why would we take that away, really? Are we trying to say that red decks can only be burn, Jund, or Splinter Twin? Because that's what it was before people remembered Faithless Looting was a card.
A skewed meta game looks like > 50% of decks playing brainstorm, and also >50% of decks playing ponder, and roughly 50% of decks playing Force of Will. And also 56% of decks playing surgical extraction. This tells me that to be successful you must play blue, interact with no mana, and have enough answers in your main deck to play against all strategies.
Faithless looting is not a "format warping" card in the real sense. It is just that it is the central card to red's color identity in modern. Just like thoughtseize, path to exile, noble heirarch, and serum visions.
This is just the first time that red has been able to stand up outside of UR tempo style builds since I've played modern (I started just before Pod was banned). Red is finally a color that can stand on its own in modern, and its not burn, so it makes people uncomfortable because if you aren't turning goblin guide sideways and throwing a lava spike at someones face, but you're playing red, then the group think seems to be that you are playing tier 4 BS. But its not that way anymore.
You can finally play red, not play burn, and not play blue or splash to make BGx into Jund. This is a good thing!
On Phoenix: The archetype is new. The deck's meta share is too low to indicate a problem yet. Give it time. Dust off your leylines, and lose to affinity for a while while modern cycles back to unfair combo and affinity regning supreme. Then Jund will take its spot again after that shift. Then a new aggro combo strategy will emerge to kick Jund/GDS off their high horse. And that cycle should repeat Ad Nauseam (as long as Ad Nauseam never becomes tier 1).
1. I bring a 3rd collective brutality in against control, and I've thrown a couple blood moon in the side. Typically the 3 brutalities and a turn 1 inquiry are enough to make control stumble and get in there before they turn the corner. The moons are probably too cute, but in the long games cryptic command is back breaking. Once they get snap-cryptic the game is over. Blood moon is not anticipated, and usually keeps them off cryptic mana. It was won me a couple games. I take out 1 delver critter and 1 goblin lore for 2 moons.
2. I haven't tried them, but lingering souls was played at GP... Hartford? I think? With some success. I watched the deck go to 4-0 off the back of lingering souls and a sacred foundry. Seems solid and not cute at all. White helps counter grave hate, but be careful not to fight grave hate too much and over board. If I'm expecting yard interaction the delve guys get cut first since I'll never get to 6 or 7 mana.
3.
Also, I just finished jund. I'll probably be asking you for advise there. I tend to play too aggressively with that deck. I'm used to just turning guys sideways.
New poster to this thread but I've been grinding out leagues with the deck with an above average win rate. Playing pretty close to the pro tour list.
@jund em in
1. It seems anti game plan. Lili is a grindy card, and I'm not sure the slot it would fill. 3 mana cards, especially 2 black sources, can be hard to manage in many games. Liliana looks like it fits, but the deck is most successful when it maintains explosiveness. Liliana is opposite that. What matchups would you want it for?
2. Sacred foundry would be better because it can be main decked. Turn 1 red is critical. There are 12 1 drop red cards. I think this also might be good against graveyard hate.
3. Again, what for? There's not a lot of, "this card wrecks this deck." That we would need turn 1 discard for that can't be answers by other things. Example, ensnaring bridge can be answered with ancient grudge and can be cast with flashback. Holding cards until that third land drop is unreliable at best. Brutality and ancient grudge seem to answer the same things but with more synergy.
Okay, I know hypergeometric distribution is good for odds of single cards, but what about multiples? What I want to find out is the number of pseudo lands we get with artificers assistant and paradise mantle at 4x each is. Anyone know this maths?
So I'm a going to a GP soon and thinking about running this. I'm cutting neonates and a haunted dead and playing the scrapheaps and street wraiths. The scrap heaps and street wraiths provide some protection for specific GY hate and can also provide some explosive turns. Opinions...?
Spicy and awesome! I'm curious if you have trouble getting dredgers in the bin though. I might just this this together for a few games.
Also this has nothing to do with gameplay but I just ordered the 7 foil fetches I need (4 wooded foothills and 3 bloodstained mires) so now I am at 63/75 foil.
Im so glad im not the only one who had done this. It's really stunning to have a fully foiled out deck. Life from the loam was the last piece i got. Good luck!
The play patterns seem similar at a glance to Grixis Death's Shadow. Is that true in your knowledge?
Are you planning on the deck being non-budget long term?
You could do RB pain lands, and start getting fetches and a blood crypt to run the BR mana base as well. The pain lands are a reasonable substitute for fast lands.
How many black decks play Thoughtseize? 23%. Do we say black based decks are built off of the backs of hand disruption? Yes, actually sometimes we do.
How many blue decks play Serum Visions? 21%. Do we say blue's strengths are built off of card selection? More so in legacy, but sometimes in modern. '
Faithless Looting is 26%.
Lightning bolt is 40%.
This card is NOT Mental Misstep or Gitaxian Probe. Those are what broken single cards that are used across multiple strategies look like.
Meta share for these cards are almost indistinguishable. Looting effects are a central effect to red's color identity in modern. Why would we take that away, really? Are we trying to say that red decks can only be burn, Jund, or Splinter Twin? Because that's what it was before people remembered Faithless Looting was a card.
A skewed meta game looks like > 50% of decks playing brainstorm, and also >50% of decks playing ponder, and roughly 50% of decks playing Force of Will. And also 56% of decks playing surgical extraction. This tells me that to be successful you must play blue, interact with no mana, and have enough answers in your main deck to play against all strategies.
Faithless looting is not a "format warping" card in the real sense. It is just that it is the central card to red's color identity in modern. Just like thoughtseize, path to exile, noble heirarch, and serum visions.
This is just the first time that red has been able to stand up outside of UR tempo style builds since I've played modern (I started just before Pod was banned). Red is finally a color that can stand on its own in modern, and its not burn, so it makes people uncomfortable because if you aren't turning goblin guide sideways and throwing a lava spike at someones face, but you're playing red, then the group think seems to be that you are playing tier 4 BS. But its not that way anymore.
You can finally play red, not play burn, and not play blue or splash to make BGx into Jund. This is a good thing!
On Phoenix: The archetype is new. The deck's meta share is too low to indicate a problem yet. Give it time. Dust off your leylines, and lose to affinity for a while while modern cycles back to unfair combo and affinity regning supreme. Then Jund will take its spot again after that shift. Then a new aggro combo strategy will emerge to kick Jund/GDS off their high horse. And that cycle should repeat Ad Nauseam (as long as Ad Nauseam never becomes tier 1).
Fwiw this was in the Zac Elsik sideboard that earned this deck some serious popularity about 2 years ago.
1. I bring a 3rd collective brutality in against control, and I've thrown a couple blood moon in the side. Typically the 3 brutalities and a turn 1 inquiry are enough to make control stumble and get in there before they turn the corner. The moons are probably too cute, but in the long games cryptic command is back breaking. Once they get snap-cryptic the game is over. Blood moon is not anticipated, and usually keeps them off cryptic mana. It was won me a couple games. I take out 1 delver critter and 1 goblin lore for 2 moons.
2. I haven't tried them, but lingering souls was played at GP... Hartford? I think? With some success. I watched the deck go to 4-0 off the back of lingering souls and a sacred foundry. Seems solid and not cute at all. White helps counter grave hate, but be careful not to fight grave hate too much and over board. If I'm expecting yard interaction the delve guys get cut first since I'll never get to 6 or 7 mana.
3.
Also, I just finished jund. I'll probably be asking you for advise there. I tend to play too aggressively with that deck. I'm used to just turning guys sideways.
@jund em in
1. It seems anti game plan. Lili is a grindy card, and I'm not sure the slot it would fill. 3 mana cards, especially 2 black sources, can be hard to manage in many games. Liliana looks like it fits, but the deck is most successful when it maintains explosiveness. Liliana is opposite that. What matchups would you want it for?
2. Sacred foundry would be better because it can be main decked. Turn 1 red is critical. There are 12 1 drop red cards. I think this also might be good against graveyard hate.
3. Again, what for? There's not a lot of, "this card wrecks this deck." That we would need turn 1 discard for that can't be answers by other things. Example, ensnaring bridge can be answered with ancient grudge and can be cast with flashback. Holding cards until that third land drop is unreliable at best. Brutality and ancient grudge seem to answer the same things but with more synergy.
That said. Wow! 2/8 are Us! Awesome!
Spicy and awesome! I'm curious if you have trouble getting dredgers in the bin though. I might just this this together for a few games.
Would love to hear more about your number crunching.
Came here to post this
Im so glad im not the only one who had done this. It's really stunning to have a fully foiled out deck. Life from the loam was the last piece i got. Good luck!