- Datrogh
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Mar 20, 2013Datrogh posted a message on Local Legacy Pox: Episode 9About the first game (against Merfolk). If you have Humility and Engineered Plague on the table, how can Mutavault hinder your Mishra's attacks? Mutavault would die instantly after activating it, regardless of what creature type you chose for the Plague...Posted in: Local Legacy Pox
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I added Lingering Souls as an evasive "beater" for the lategame that can be discarded to Liliana and still does something.
Furthermore I rethought the discard-package. Hymn is a really strong card, but I would rather be picking what I let him discard. So I added Cabal Therapy which is naturally good with Thoughtseize (because I saw his hand already) and Lingering Souls, because I can sacrifice tokens (or a third Deathrite Shaman or something).
The deck looks now completely different than before, but I'm convinced that it will be very strong:
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
1 Gaddock Teeg
Atifacts (3)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Instants (7)
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
Sorceries (13)
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (22)
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
2 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
1 Savannah
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Engineered Plague
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Extirpate
2 Duress
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
About the Sideboard:
I anticipate a lot of Show and Tell so I have to take precautions against that. That is what the Oblivion Ring is for. It can also come in against Helm-Combo or Enchantress.
Engineered Plague should be clear: Goblins and especially Elves, who are quite strong at the moment
Diablic Edict another nod to Show and Tell, but also deals with the Sneak Attack variant at instant speed. Also helps against Shallow Grave Combo.
Extirpate is really helpful against a lot of decks that have a single win condition or combo enabler (taking his High Tides or Show and Tells usually is game over) and makes the Dredge-Matchup winnable (Deathrite Shaman often isn't enough)
Duress another one against Combo-Decks, helps against Belcher and the lot. I wonder If I should rather play Pithing Needle over it.
Chains of Mephistopheles is a blowout against Brainstorm-Decks and some combo decks. Griselbrand doesn't look that good anymore suddelny (but is still able to win, which is just absurd) and most control decks lose their card-filtering tool of choice: Brainstorm (Ponder gets worse, too)
I tested against NicFit (with red and Scapeshift combo), Esper Stoneblade, 4c Loam, Show and Tell and Death and Taxes last Saturday and the hardest matchup in testing seemed to be 4c Loam, because the clock of the deck is too slow to win against Devastating Dreams...
So... any comments on that? Ideas are welcome, as always.
Thanks for your feedback!
Adding an Ooze and cutting down the GSZs seems counterintuitive to me. If I want to regularly fetch toolbox creatures like Ooze, Teeg or the maindeck Knights, shouldn't I play at least 2-3 copies of the Zenith?
I really agree on the fourth Swords to Plowshares and the -1 Vindicate. Turn one removal is really important these days...
If I were to be cutting the Zenith, I think I would be cutting all three of them and a Knight of the Reliqary to add 2 Stoneforge Mystic, 1 Batterskull and 1 Umezawa's Jitte or something like that.
That would bring me to this list:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tarmogoyf
Instants [7]
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries [9]
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
2 Vindicate
1 Batterskull
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Planeswalkers [3]
3 Liliana of the Veil
Lands [22]
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
3 Scrubland
3 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
What do you think?
I'm new to this deck and have never played it in a tournament before. I like to try taking it to GP Strasbourg and that means I really should start testing with a list soon.
This is my first draft:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark Confidant
2 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
Instants [6]
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries [13]
3 Vindicate
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalkers [3]
3 Liliana of the Veil
Lands [22]
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
3 Scrubland
3 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
Do you think that this would be a good starting place for testing? I'd like to add a Dryad Arbor, but I don't know what to cut :/
Even more, I would like to add 2-4 Stoneforge Mystic, a Batterskull and a Jitte, but that seems even more undoable. I would have to cut the Green Sun's Zenith for that, I think...
In your opinion, what are the most important cards to have in the sideboard?
I thought about these cards:
Any ideas and tips are welcome!
You may have got a point there with the counters. I feel really comfortable with that denial package, but I will try it out, especially the Spell Pierce and more discard idea.
About the Earwig Squad, I realy don't know. have to test it out. Their complete lack of evasion makes me unsure about their use.
I will test the following changes:
-4 Mana Leak
-1 Remand
-1 Creeping Tar Pit
+3 Spell Pierce
+2 Earwig Squad
+1 Thoughtseize
That brings me to this list:
4 Nightshade Stinger
4 Prickly Boggart
4 Oona's Blackguard
4 Invisible Stalker
3 Stinkdrinker Bandit
2 Earwig Squad
Disruption/Denial (11)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
3 Remand
3 Spell Pierce
3 Hands of Binding
2 Go for the Throat
Equipment (2)
2 Cloak and Dagger
Lands (21)
4 Watery Grave
4 Darkslick Shores
4 River of Tears
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Island
2 Swamp
2 Creeping Tar Pit
Thanks for the input!
I find Noggin Whack too slow. I played with ith in the first versions of the deck and for it to shine you have to cast it turn 2 or 3 which is not always the best play you can make.
I really like Thieve's Fortune, but I cut it in favor of more counters.
As for Inkfathom Infiltrator: I would like to play him, but what do I cut? I already have 11 two-drop creatures and 13 two-drop spells, so I don't like putting in more of them (that said, the curve even stops at 2, so I could likely cut another land)
4 Nightshade Stinger
4 Prickly Boggart
4 Oona's Blackguard
4 Invisible Stalker
3 Stinkdrinker Bandit
Disruption/Denial (12)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Remand
4 Mana Leak
3 Hands of Binding
2 Go for the Throat
Equipment (2)
2 Cloak and Dagger
Lands (22)
4 Watery Grave
4 Darkslick Shores
4 River of Tears
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Island
2 Swamp
3 Creeping Tar-Pit
I'm wondering about your sideboard. How is that 1-of Leyline of the Void faring for you? I don't really see it being effective.
And how is your matchup against Dredge? I think that Nether Void is able to work wonder there when you get it out on turn two (if he hasn't already won by then :P)
There are many viable Pox-builds out there and they all focus on different things. Before putting together a list, you should consider if you want to go mono-black or black-green (other combinations are unusual but not unheard of). Do you want to go the heahy discard route with The Rack or focus on land destruction? And what do you want to be your win conditions?
As I see the list of cards you consider auto-includes, I presume you want to play Bg with a focus on land destruction. That is the route I took, too, so I will give you my current list for starters:
2 Cursed Scroll
1 Worm Harvest
3 Mishra's Factory
Kill
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Abrupt Decay
Discard
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
4 Liliana of the Veil
LD
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Wasteland
2 Life from the Loam
2 Barren Moor
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Mana
3 Mox Diamond
3 Swamp
4 Bayou
2 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Extirpate
2 Duress
3 Pernicious Deed
If you are playing green, Life from the Loam is the only auto-include. But Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse and Pernicious Deed should all at least be considered.
If you play Dark Ritual or Mox Diamond is up to you, I have had a better playing experience with the Mox so far. Some even play without acceleration, but I really wanto to be able to first turn Hymn to Tourach or second turn Inquisition of Kozilek + Sinkhole or something like that.
My win-conditions are 2 Cursed Scrolls, 3 Mishra's Factorys and 1 Worm Harvest. That is less then most lists play, but it works out for me.
If I had the money I would add a second Tabernacle to the list, but I even have to borrow the first one at the moment
If you are on mana-denial, then Nether Void is a really back-breaking card that can and will seal most of the games it comes down. I don't quite have the hang of playing with it, that is the main reason it is not included as a 1- or 2-of in my list.
I really want to add a Ghost Quarter or a Rishidan Port to my deck, too, but can't figure out what to cut...
Big Pox isn't often played anymore and when it is, then only in mono-black. The BBB-cost is too harsh on the manabase if you're playing 4 Wastelands and 4 Mishra's Factorys. Smallpox usually does the same thing, but for one less mana.
You want to avoid playing non-recurring creatures like Deathrite Shaman, because he turns on all the removal your opponent topdecks.
I hope I helped you a litte with that!
2 Cursed Scroll
Enchantments-4
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Nether Void
Instants-6
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Dark Ritual
Sorceries-18
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Life from the Loam
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
1 Worm Harvest
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands-26
4 Swamp
2 Barren Moor
4 Bayou
2 Marsh Flats
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Extirpate
4 Duress
I'm not sure about Dark Ritual in the Bg version. I think it can afford to be a little slower and play either Duress or Thoughtseize in it's place. Which would open up slots in the sideboard. Or I play 2 Duresses instead of the 3 Dark Rituals and add another land...
First of all: Welcome in the forums and congrats on your finish! Thank you for your time. Successful players are always welcome as a source of inspiration.
That said, here are some questions:
Why no Hymn to Tourach?
Has the lifeloss from Thoughtseize affected your games?
Do situations where Damnation is good really appear (never happened to me ^^).
What are your thoughts about Bg Pox? Main reasons for the green splash would be Life from the Loam, Abrupt Decay, Pernicious Deed and Maelstrom Pulse. Except for the much tighter manabase, I found the deck more resilient to things like Counterbalance or Rest in Peace-Energy Field. While Rachet Bomb can fill the same roll, it is much slower and doesn't cut it, if I have to get it up to 2 or 3 counters first.
And the last one: Could you explain your sideboard, what matchups you are having trouble with and what role the cards from the sideboard fill.
Sorry for the many questions!
Edit: For reference, Shawns List from the SCG Open St. Louis
11 Swamp
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Spells (29)
2 Crucible Of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Dark Ritual
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Thoughtseize
2 Nether Void
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Plague
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Extirpate
2 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 The Abyss
1 Karakas
Try playing a Blue Sun's Zenith and 3 Cunning Wishes main. That will make it more consistent. Since you can use the Zenith as a drawspell when you start to go off and it is scrollable, it is seldom a dead card. If the opponent doesn't have a fast game, you can just cast it end of his turn 4 to draw 1 card before going off on turn 5 or some stuff like that.
The Maverick decks that run around where I play are my hardest matchup. Between 1 Gaddock Teeg 3 Thalias and 4 GSZs main, plus another Gaddock and 2 Aven Mindcensor from the Sideboard, I really have problem going off early, because I need at least two counters by round 3. Since Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce don't stop creatures, it have to be 2 Forces. The chance to have 2 of them AND being able to pitch stuff without killing my game is small. Even when I am able to counter 2 hate-bears, the gain a round or two in which they will just play another hate-bear. I hate Maverick
The lack of greens sources is due to the need for many, many black sources to cast our important spells. I rarely need a green source before round 3 or 4, when I already have stripped the opponents hand and game of stuff. Most of the time, I can use Life from the Loam to get wasted Bayous back, if the opponent even wastes (think about it: 4 Smallpox, 4 Wasteland and 4 Sinkhole should keep him low enough on mana that he won't be too eager to sacrifice even more lands ^^).
As of the sideboard, the abundance of GY hate is because I have problems dealing with graveyard-based decks. It is my (personal) main weakness and so I decided that if I have to play against Dredge, for example, that I want to win round 2 and 3. Against Nic Fit, the Leylines will do wonders and against Reanimators, Extirpate is much better. I really dislike Surgical Extraction, because when I really need to extract something, the Extraction gets countered more often than not.
As for the Crucible of Worlds, Life from the Loam does effectively the same thing plus it mills lands (and maybe a Nether Spirit), so it is likely better here, if you ignore the fact that you can cast Crucible without access to green mana.
That said, I will try cutting an Abupt Decay and play a fourth Inquisiton of Kozilek instead
Interestingly, the addition of Worm Harvest has sped up my way to winning enormously. I really seldom go over 5 lands in play and keep the lands in my graveyard instead. And getting to 5 lands just "happens" when you arrive in the 10th turn or so...
I'm thinking about cutting an Abrupt Decay, a Life from the Loam and a Liliana of the Veil for 3 Entombs. Those can fetch me the lone remaining Life from the Loam, Nether Spirit or Worm Harvest. If I already got my Loam, I'm able to fetch The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale or even a Barren Moor, if needed somehow. If I add Entomb, would Raven's Crime be a good addition
1 Nether Spirit
Artifacts (2)
2 Cursed Scroll
Enchantments (2)
2 Pernicious Deed
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Instants (7)
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Dark Ritual
Sorceries (18)
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Life from the Loam
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
1 Worm Harvest
3 Swamp
2 Barren Moor
4 Bayou
2 Marsh Flats
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Extirpate
2 Duress
I'm expecting at least one Maverick, one or two RUG or BUG lists, pretty sure one Foodchain Elves, a Miracles deck, possibly one Reanimator or Dredge, and seemingly a burn deck. It will be ~20-25 players overall, so the rest can only be guessed.
What should I change from my maindeck and/or sideboard? Any suggestions?
I'm actually playing Bg Pox
The main difference between the decks would be that I cut the Smallpox (which kills our creature) for Raze (which is normally much wose) to be able to play more efficient threats.
I have to test it yet, but I think it will play out a lot like pox, just faster and a little less "disrupty"
I don't think the deck can be compared to Aggo-Loam, since Life from the Loam is only a small part of the deck and not needed to run smoothly. The focus here is on land disruption and not land recycling. The angle in which the deck attacks the opponent differs very much from the Aggro-Loam lists.
Raze, while being a 2-for-1 for the opponent doesn't hurt the deck as much, because of the low curve. I'm not set on its power, but I think it should be tested before making harsh judgments.
If I lose the red (and hence Raze) I wouldn't want to keep Sinkhole either. And then I'm just another GB aggro deck, which I don't think can keep up.