Hello everybody. I used to play RUG scapeshift and recently started putting this deck Together. My biggest difficulty playing this list is that I always found myself drawing a lot of landsssss when they are not needed. Any suggestion? I’m playing a very stock list with BBE And 27 lands.
I have been playing control decks for a couple years. Started with mono-U tron, then moved to RUG scapeshift. Since last year, I have been trying Esper variants (mentor/gifts/obzadat). I love the control element, but am a bit tired of being reactive in current meta.
I'm looking for something more linear/combo/fast, and a deck that I can also grow with.
KCI seems really fun, but I can't afford the MOXsss....any recommendation? Thanks a lot!
Cards you already own:
most of the control elements (U counter spells, BW kill spells, B discards, W sideboard cards, Tron lands)
Fetch lands (UW/UB/UG/GB)
Shock lands and some fast lands
Colors you like to play
I LOVE blue, but probably have to shift to other colors if I want a new linear style -- which I'm totally open
Style you like to play (control, combo, aggro, midrange, tempo, ramp, rogue)
currently seeking for COMBO/rouge
Level you want to play at, or aim to build up to (causal, fmn, ptq)
FNM, maybe ptq
What do you think of the new Nissa Nissa, Steward of Elements?
I can see myself adding 2 to the RUG list. scry for digging seems pretty good! and Ult may be a alt wincon as well
I have been playing a similar list as jd2x's deck, with 4 Omen and zero Desolate Lighthouse and zero izzet charm...
Although there were times that I don't want to have second or third omen in hand, but I'm pretty happy to draw them 95% of the time. I don't think it's worth it to include Desolate Lighthouse since we already have 4 valakuts come in tapped and we need color mana badly in the early games (i.e., what lands are we going to replace for).
I'm debating izzet charm to replace a remand or other cards as it's more flexible.
Bottom line, it's always an insurance to draw the 2nd or 3rd (or fourth) omen, you never know if they have Abrupt Decay or any kind of permanent/enchantment removal.
Against Bant Eldrazi the way I have been approaching it is this. If they go turn 2 thought knot its just something they do; and Im probably not going to win when that happens. Otherwise the matchup is pretty good for us. Cryptic really shines here being able to tap their team or even counter a spell and bounce thought knot to draw a card and slow them down (although that is a pretty situational play). Really though just being able to Cryptic turn 3 onwards is really good vs them. In my experience the games are always very close, but we can normally win a turn before they kill us.
On Prismatic Omen- I run 4 after trying 3 for a little while. Although the 2nd copy is almost always dead the card is so good I want to see it every game. To mitigate the extra copies it is a good idea to run a couple izzet charms to occasionally use the draw/discard mode. Prismatic gives us a fantastic late game in those games where scapeshift or Prime Time just isnt coming up. I cannot count how many games ive won just by playing land drops and bolting my opponent. It is also very good for keeping the opponents board clear of important creatures. I always enjoy pointing a valakut trigger at a master of waves or etched champion and then explaining to my opponent that valakut is colorless and pro anything doesnt help. It also makes Blood Moon far easier to work around- the last played enchantment is the one that affects us so an omen after a Blood Moon gives us perfect mana again, even if its the other way around we can still tap basics for any color. Also as previously stated, the omen makes us consistently faster, increasing the number of turn 4 kills that come up. And one more use- jamming a turn 2 omen vs any control deck means we win, as long as a valakut comes up. Resolving a 4 mana spell against control can sometimes be pretty tricky, but they have no way to interact with every land drop being a bolt.
Hello everyone, I wonder if there's any way I can deal with Eldrazi decks if I'm running RUG scapeshift (no bring to light)
I feel all my kill spell are for toughness 3 or less....Any suggestion? Thanks
Very insightful input!
I wonder if it will be a better idea to just give up blue and play pure naya?
no counters, but more removals. And perhaps adding couple of Prismatic Omen
I brewed a Nahirilist (however its not tested very well yet and i dont think its worth running her). Here are my thoughts:
- Just adding her to the list will make BTL scapeshifts bad matchups even worse (mainly aggro decks) as they can ignore or kill her, depending on the situation.
- UWR Nahiri has more removal and control elements to help her surviving. Btl scapeshift has a very limited ammount of removal and wins by being fast and by delaying your opponent with Remands and Cryptic Commands and not by establishing board control. As a result im not even sure, if she improves any non control deck matchups at all.
- If you play her, you really want a payoff card that you can ultimate for. My experience from playing KikiChord with Nahiri Emrakul is, that it deffinetely comes up that you draw the big guy in situations where you dont want him. I would not play Emrakul here, especially if he is only involved in your plan B.
To get a list that can play Nahiri i needed a new approach. Similar to Kiki-Chord, BTL Scapeshift is capable to play Nahiri on T3 and ult her on T5 if she is not interacted with. I added 2 Primeval Titan to the list, which act as alternative wincondition and can be "breached" into play with Nahiri.
Playing Scapeshift and Primeval Titan in one deck brings some mana tensions with it, as Primeval Titan wants you to play as many mountains as possible before you cast him and Scapeshift wants you to keep as many Mountains as possible in your deck before you cast it. As a result, you need to run a lot of mountains (or to not run a lot of non mountains to be precise)
The obvious thing was to cut the 4 cryptics (i know they are one of the reasons to play scapeshift) which took A LOT of pressure from the manabase and made it possible to play Titan + Scapeshift in one deck. Bonus benefits are now easily castable (and also BTL tutorable) 2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar and 2 Anger of the Gods, that generally help in all agressive and creature combat oriented matchups (and also can be cast on T3)
So for everyone who is interested how my list looks like:
I have been a control/combo deck player, and recently wanna try some fair decks.
Is there any fair deck that needs not playing Goyfs? I really don't have the money to spend on that...
Do you guys have any tips against Tron (both g tron and u tron)
I have tried the traditional rug list as well as BTL, but counter magics just seem so bad against them with all those "resolve when casting" effects. I honestly feel these match ups are just like ad nauseam -- they are even worse than aggros.
It's not crazy at all! I have had the same thought before...
But after trying, I would say turn 2 Chalice is not THAT impressive, especially if we are on the draw.
And SSG is not that good of a card in this deck either, because we need actual lands for mana ramp.
As far as I'm a big fan of chalice, I dont think it's a good fit for this shell.
call me crazy but considering we barely/rarely/hardly ever run 1-drops, can we potentially run a maindeck chalice of the void package?
I've run it in other decks as an experiment and it's been brutal (for opponents playing fast decks like burn and infect, which we are generally weak to)
against slower opponents, it doesn't really matter too much because we have a favourable matchup anyway. it even shuts off a lot of incidental removal or filtering cards.
Nice report and congratz, Quarion_ilphukiir!!!
I'm switching from BtL to RUG recently too.
One question though...what makes you run Ancient Grudge instead of destructive revelry or nature's claim? I thought these cards are more flexible and can help dealing with blood moon sort of cards.
1st round, vs werid Boros/b lifelink spell deck with blood moon (2:0)
1st game I ramp with couple of remands along the way, and scapeshift for the win. (win before knowing what he is really playing)
2nd game he tried to resolve a blood moon but I Remand it and Crypitc the next turn. Ramp up and BtL to scapeshift for the win.
3rd round, aggro Eldrazi Tron (2:1)
1st he got me with super aggro hand. He didn't event need to set up tron. Just swing for the win.
SB
+1 Timely reinforcement
+1 wrath of god
+1 Bring to Light
+2 Obstinate Baloth
+1 Crumble to Dust
-1 Search for tomorrow
-3 Lightning Bolt
-1 Electrolyze
-1 Izzet Charm
I holdup ramp to play around turn 2 or 3 knots with remand followed by cryptics
I got a little lucky here with BtL/Crumble to Dust on-time to slow him down. couple of STEvies block and ramp.
Great lesson today was to hold a counter mana handy instead of go for Crumble to Dust or some silverbullet.
To sum up, I still like the BtL list A LOT! You can argue that my LGS is not the most competitive one, but still BtL is hell lots of fun!
I really enjoy the toolbox style deck. And you dont need 4 snappy (i know it's super powerful card but I really dont have that $$ :frown:)
BtL is very flexible to play in a blind meta IMO.
The most important question must be. Wich build is right in wich meta?
I'm not a long-time scapeshift player and not a mtg expert either, but I honestly don't think there's a right answer to this one.
Here are some of my thoughts -
for starter, the meta is comparably diverse now....and more importantly, I found it's better to use the list that suits your playstyle.
if you are worrying about the control matchups, look at the counters that both lists provide - they are actually not that different!
All I can see are
1. RUG has 1 more snappy and maybe more bolt-snap-bolt play.
2. Peer Through Depths vs. anticipate (reveal vs. not reveal; 5 sorcery/instant cards vs. 3 all-types of cards)
3. creature counts (in both MB and SB)
4. the only matchup i think is worse for BTL than RUG is infect...
To me, these are more playstyle preferences than meta call. The meta adjustment can be added to both lists in different ways.
Thank you all
I'm looking for something more linear/combo/fast, and a deck that I can also grow with.
KCI seems really fun, but I can't afford the MOXsss....any recommendation? Thanks a lot!
Cards you already own:
most of the control elements (U counter spells, BW kill spells, B discards, W sideboard cards, Tron lands)
Fetch lands (UW/UB/UG/GB)
Shock lands and some fast lands
Colors you like to play
I LOVE blue, but probably have to shift to other colors if I want a new linear style -- which I'm totally open
Style you like to play (control, combo, aggro, midrange, tempo, ramp, rogue)
currently seeking for COMBO/rouge
Level you want to play at, or aim to build up to (causal, fmn, ptq)
FNM, maybe ptq
I can see myself adding 2 to the RUG list. scry for digging seems pretty good! and Ult may be a alt wincon as well
Although there were times that I don't want to have second or third omen in hand, but I'm pretty happy to draw them 95% of the time. I don't think it's worth it to include Desolate Lighthouse since we already have 4 valakuts come in tapped and we need color mana badly in the early games (i.e., what lands are we going to replace for).
I'm debating izzet charm to replace a remand or other cards as it's more flexible.
Bottom line, it's always an insurance to draw the 2nd or 3rd (or fourth) omen, you never know if they have Abrupt Decay or any kind of permanent/enchantment removal.
I feel all my kill spell are for toughness 3 or less....Any suggestion? Thanks
I wonder if it will be a better idea to just give up blue and play pure naya?
no counters, but more removals. And perhaps adding couple of Prismatic Omen
Is there any fair deck that needs not playing Goyfs? I really don't have the money to spend on that...
I have tried the traditional rug list as well as BTL, but counter magics just seem so bad against them with all those "resolve when casting" effects. I honestly feel these match ups are just like ad nauseam -- they are even worse than aggros.
Any tips?
But after trying, I would say turn 2 Chalice is not THAT impressive, especially if we are on the draw.
And SSG is not that good of a card in this deck either, because we need actual lands for mana ramp.
As far as I'm a big fan of chalice, I dont think it's a good fit for this shell.
What do you think?
I'm switching from BtL to RUG recently too.
One question though...what makes you run Ancient Grudge instead of destructive revelry or nature's claim? I thought these cards are more flexible and can help dealing with blood moon sort of cards.
I play RUGw with 3 blots MD and white cards only in SB (Timely reinforcement and wrath of god)
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Bring to Light
3 Scapeshift
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Electrolyze
1 Izzet Charm
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Farseek
4 Search for Tomorrow
2 Worldly Counsel
4 Remand
4 Cryptic Command
1 Hunting Wilds
1 Cinder Glade
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Flooded Grove
2 Breeding Pool
4 Stomping Ground
4 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Plains
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Bring to Light
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Wrath of God
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Spellskite
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Shatterstorm
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1st round, vs werid Boros/b lifelink spell deck with blood moon (2:0)
1st game I ramp with couple of remands along the way, and scapeshift for the win. (win before knowing what he is really playing)
2nd game he tried to resolve a blood moon but I Remand it and Crypitc the next turn. Ramp up and BtL to scapeshift for the win.
2nd round, token goblin (2:1)
1st game he was being super fast. not much I can do other than bolt and block with STE. lost at turn 4 through 2 Goblin Grenade.
2nd and 3rd game
+2 Anger of the Gods
+1 Timely reinforcement
+1 Obstinate Baloth
+1 Bring to Light
+1 wrath of god
+1 Negate
-3 Remand
-1 Hunting wild
-1 Search for tomorrow
-1 farseek
-1 Worldly Counsel
Basically wipe and wipe and wipe. Then wait for combo win.
3rd round, aggro Eldrazi Tron (2:1)
1st he got me with super aggro hand. He didn't event need to set up tron. Just swing for the win.
SB
+1 Timely reinforcement
+1 wrath of god
+1 Bring to Light
+2 Obstinate Baloth
+1 Crumble to Dust
-1 Search for tomorrow
-3 Lightning Bolt
-1 Electrolyze
-1 Izzet Charm
I holdup ramp to play around turn 2 or 3 knots with remand followed by cryptics
I got a little lucky here with BtL/Crumble to Dust on-time to slow him down. couple of STEvies block and ramp.
Great lesson today was to hold a counter mana handy instead of go for Crumble to Dust or some silverbullet.
To sum up, I still like the BtL list A LOT! You can argue that my LGS is not the most competitive one, but still BtL is hell lots of fun!
I really enjoy the toolbox style deck. And you dont need 4 snappy (i know it's super powerful card but I really dont have that $$ :frown:)
BtL is very flexible to play in a blind meta IMO.
I'm not a long-time scapeshift player and not a mtg expert either, but I honestly don't think there's a right answer to this one.
Here are some of my thoughts -
for starter, the meta is comparably diverse now....and more importantly, I found it's better to use the list that suits your playstyle.
if you are worrying about the control matchups, look at the counters that both lists provide - they are actually not that different!
All I can see are
1. RUG has 1 more snappy and maybe more bolt-snap-bolt play.
2. Peer Through Depths vs. anticipate (reveal vs. not reveal; 5 sorcery/instant cards vs. 3 all-types of cards)
3. creature counts (in both MB and SB)
4. the only matchup i think is worse for BTL than RUG is infect...
To me, these are more playstyle preferences than meta call. The meta adjustment can be added to both lists in different ways.