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  • posted a message on Aetherworks Marvel Decks
    To be honest, they haven't been that helpful since i never seem to draw them that often anyways. I'll keep that in mind. And I really like the aether theorist choice since it could help scry if I have extra energy. thanks!
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Aetherworks Marvel Decks


    GUR Ætherworks Marvel Combo RUG

    Aetherworks Marvel Combo is a combo deck that attempts to use Aetherworks Marvel's activated ability to cast Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as early as turn 4. Ulamog tends to end games very quickly after he resolves and is completely overpowered when cast at the deck's earliest possible time, turn 4. The remainder of the deck is an energy midrange shell that attempts to assemble Marvel with enough energy to activate its ability immediately, and which contains ways to buy time to accomplish this task and to win the game without ever casting Ulamog off of Marvel. This can, occasionally, include casting it from hand, if drawn. While there are other variations on Marvel decks, notably BUG Delirium and Bant Control, that have proven to be reasonably competitive takes on the archetype, this primer is primarily devoted to RUG/Temur Marvel, thus far the most successful take of them all.
    History
    Aetherworks Marvel was obviously powerful when initially spoiled as part of Kaladesh. At Pro Tour Kaladesh, it was heavily represented with decks that largely focused on finding Marvel and spinning it into Emrakul, the Promised End quickly. These decks underperformed as cards including Spell Queller proved very effective against it.
    As the format matured, online player jabberwocki and others combined Marvel and Delirium to make decks that could Marvel into Emrakul or use Ishkanah, Grafwidow to stall until hardcasting Emrakul. These decks were so successful that they contributed to the subsequent banning of Emrakul.
    With Aether Revolt and the banning of Emrakul, although Marvel into Ulamog was attempted, Copycat Combo proved more effective.
    With Amonkhet and the banning of Felidar Guardian, Marvel proved to be a top tier contender, taking half of the top 8 at Pro Tour Amonkhet. Marvel's status was confirmed by winning GPs Santiago and Montreal while taking 3 of the top 8 spots in each. Subsequently, Marvel dominated and won GP Omaha and placed decks in the top 8 of GPs Manila and Amsterdam.
    Card Choices

    Aetherworks Marvel: The card that started it all. For the low price of six energy, one card, four mana, and a good luck ritual, you too can cast an unbeatable Eldrazi Titan on turn four in Standard. Play four.

    Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger: The payoff for Marvel. Originally discarded from Kaladesh-era Marvel decks due to casting difficulties, a January 2017 ban of Emrakul from Standard left Ulamog as the premier Eldrazi Titan to be cast off of Marvel. You will develop the biggest love/hate relationship with Ulamog and you'll LIKE it. Builds vary on the exact number of Ulamog to play: some people play 2-3 in order to give themselves a realistic chance of getting turn-4 Ulamog while reducing the odds of drawing Ulamog, which is usually terrible; other people play the full four copies in order to maximize their chances of hitting Ulamog off of Marvel, regarding the -win% from a higher likelihood of drawing uncastable Ulamogs as an acceptable downside. This primer takes the latter position and strongly recommends four copies.

    Attune with Aether: In tandem with Aether Hub, provides the best manabase in Standard, not close. For the relatively low price of playing a couple of Forests and green fastlands, you have an all-in-one tricolor mana fixer, Hub fuel, and one-third of a Marvel activation once your mana is fully online. Play four.

    Harnessed Lightning: You don't need a lot of removal spells to handle business, just one really good one, and R&D delivered here, big time. This card is the closest thing we're going to get to a two-mana unconditional removal spell for quite some time, and it slots into this deck perfectly, so enjoy it while it's here. Play four.

    Woodweaver's Puzzleknot: It looks like part of an unassuming draft-chaff cycle. In fairness, it is, but it's real good draft-chaff. The lifegain keeps aggro decks from getting underneath you, and the card conveniently pays for a Marvel activation all by itself. Some players have shaved on the fourth Puzzleknot on occasion because it can be underwhelming in the mirror and in your bad matchups, but your game 1 is so warped around Marvel, no matter how you build your deck, that you can't really afford to skimp on activation efficiency. Play four.

    Rogue Refiner: It blocks, it attacks planeswalkers and control opponents pretty well, it makes two energy and oh yeah, it replaces itself with a card. Great deal for 3 mana. Tends to be a very "replacement-level" card; you'll probably cut some copies postboard in a lot of situations where Marvel activations aren't as paramount to your winning the game, since a cantripping 3/2 for 3 is a good "rate" but the random body doesn't actually advance your victory criterion all that much. However, in your combo-heavy game 1s, Refiner does everything you could ever realistically expect your 3-drop to do. Play four.

    Whirler Virtuoso: In Standard seasons past, Virtuoso was the backup plan of a lot of energy-dependent combo decks, ranging from OG Marvel with Emrakul to 4c Copycat. Virtuoso's light has faded a bit since the last time Marvel was great; the format is significantly slower and the mirror comes down to Marvel spins much more frequently than Thopter-beats backup plans, especially given the emergence of Chandra, Flamecaller to combat aggressive decks, which has substantial splash damage against Virtuoso beats. Nonetheless, there will be times where you just don't draw that Marvel and you rip a Virtuoso with 1-2 dozen energy counters available and you'll be glad you had him. Plus, he does make half a Marvel activation by himself! This primer can't recommend the full four copies in good faith, although some people play four copies to great success. Definitely play at least one, and probably 2-3.

    Servant of the Conduit: This guy compares pretty favorably to the likes of Sylvan Caryatid and Rattleclaw Mystic from recent seasons past. 2-mana rainbow dorks rarely get to be 2/2s as well; Servant can rumble with the format's early beaters a lot more effectively than you'd ever guess from looking at it. Marvel saves it from being a dead draw late like most dorks are, since the energy ETB trigger is 1/3 of an activation by itself. Still, Marvel doesn't utilize extra mana very well, since it's more of a "cheating" than "ramping" deck, and it's very easy to resolve Servant on 2 and play out a game where the extra mana didn't matter. This card is optional but a significant asset.

    Glimmer of Genius: Solid roleplayer in any nonaggressive deck. Glimmer is especially useful in game 1 as a "bridge" card when you've made some early plays but haven't found Marvel yet. It's a bit slow for aggressive matchups sometimes, but it's never dead, and provides some significant selection on top of being an instant-speed draw-2. Adding 2 energy is just cake. Some builds have opted for zero Glimmer, but they are pretty rare these days. This primer observes that zero copies of Glimmer can occasionally be correct, but recommends two copies by default, and the full playset if you are playing a more controlling take on Marvel.

    Dynavolt Tower: This card has occasionally seen play as a 1-2 of in Marvel decks as an alternative energy outlet and generator, but even the more controlling builds of Marvel have tended not to play Towers in them this season, opting for Torrential Gearhulk instead. This primer concedes that the card may be interesting in a controlling Marvel build but recommends zero copies.

    Chandra, Flamecaller: Chandra has spent most of her Standard life in relative obscurity, pushed out of the format by aggro decks with some form of resilience to her -X ability (Collected Company decks, followed by Smuggler's Copter/Heart of Kiran decks). However, the rise of Zombies -- an aggressive deck soft to her -X ability with good to great matchups against the aggressive decks resilient to Chandra -- has given Chandra a chance to shine. All Marvel decks play an "alternate hit" that costs around six mana and ends games quickly, in order to make their Marvel spins a greater threat to the opponent and in order to have a "hit" off Marvel that is realistically castable in a normal Magic game. Chandra does both these things, but she also complements Ulamog and Marvel very nicely. Her 0 ability is at its best in Marvel: you can pitch useless Ulamogs that you drew and try to get real cards, and when you have either a large energy supply or an energy sink, but not both, you can dig to the missing piece extremely efficiently. Chandra also headhunts rival planeswalkers pretty effectively, shoring up a weakness to resolved PWs in games where you don't have an early Ulamog. This primer absolutely recommends at least two maindeck copies, and endorses up to four.

    Torrential Gearhulk: The "other" alternate win condition of choice. Gearhulk plays pretty well in Marvel builds that are willing to use their flex slots on instants to maximize its value. This primer prefers Chandra in the same slot, since they tend to compete for space in the deck, and since Chandra does so much for the deck, while Gearhulk tends to be more of a "value card" than an engine piece for Marvel. Gearhulk versions of Marvel tend to lean less on the actual combo with Marvel and try to play a more normal game; whether or not reducing the variance (bad and good) intrinsic in the Marvel strategy is worthwhile is an unresolved question. Marvel decks which choose to play Gearhulk tend to play 1-2 copies; this primer recommends zero.

    Tireless Tracker: Tracker nearly always shows up in the Marvel sideboard, but has since made its way into the maindeck in some builds. Tracker is an excellent Plan B for a deck that is very resource-hungry and sometimes needs to draw a lot of lands to win. The format is also slowing down to the point where you can realistically draw Tracker against aggressive decks and have a chance. This primer makes no recommendations as to how many copies of Tracker to play in the maindeck, but recommends at least two copies, and possibly a full playset, in the entire 75 of every Marvel deck.

    Chandra, Torch of Defiance: 4-mana Chandra has historically been an excellent alternate win condition in energy-combo decks, but has suffered to a significant extent from the rise of Zombies, since she cannot easily defend herself. She is also prone to occasional clunk in combination with Flamecaller, or with reactive cards, which are needed to play Torrential Gearhulk. This combination makes her difficult to play in the maindeck since one or the other six-drop is so essential to making Marvel as strong as it needs to be. With that said, she's an excellent threat against control decks, and she synergizes strategically with Flamecaller, in that one Chandra is good in the matchups where the other is bad, and vice versa: Flamecaller can be too clunky in the mirror and against control, where Torch of Defiance is great, while Torch of Defiance is inefficient against aggressive decks where Flamecaller shines. This primer recommends sideboarding her if you play her, and recommends 2-3 copies if so.

    Magma Spray: Iffy in the maindeck unless you expect a lot of Mardu or Zombies. Great sideboard card. Play 2 sideboard, maindeck contingent on expected metagame but lean toward none.

    Censor: The main alternative to Servant of the Conduit in Gearhulk versions of Marvel. Play 3-4 maindeck if you aren't playing Servant, since you need a turn-2 play of some kind. Recommend zero if you play Servant and don't play Gearhulk.

    Dissenter's Deliverance: Maindecking one copy of this card isn't bad if you have the space, both to mise with Marvel (and possibly double-up with Gearhulk) and because its cycling cost is very easy to satisfy. Hard to recommend more than a couple if your metagame doesn't have a lot of Vehicles however.

    Negate: Reasonable to maindeck right now, mandatory in the 75 somewhere. If you decide to maindeck, you can probably afford three copies in the 75; recommend limiting SB to two Negates whether or not you maindeck any copies.

    Sweltering Suns/Radiant Flames: Maindecking a 3-mana sweeper is okay if you expect a lot of aggressive decks, or if you expect to be the controlling player in most of your matchups. This one is a true tossup overall, since Flames is a lot easier to cast, but Suns can be cast off Marvel; however, for the maindeck, Suns is the only reasonable choice due to cycling. Play two in your 75, maybe a third for the SB if you maindeck 1-2 copies.

    Ceremonious Rejection: Brutally efficient in the mirror, but you almost never want to draw two copies. Rejection is an excellent fun-of for the board.

    Manglehorn: Essential in the mirror match - even blowing up an opposing Puzzleknot or Clue token is acceptable since those two artifacts sacrifice for value if allowed to do so, but the main attraction lies in keeping your opponents off of Marvel for one turn even if it resolves. That gives you a chance to use an artifact removal spell to clean up the Marvel before it could do anything, or even steal it (more on that next). Manglehorn also gives you very good splash damage against Toolcraft Exemplar + Heart of Kiran decks. Play 2 in the board.

    Confiscation Coup: Quickly proving to be a crucial mirror-breaker. Coup is the only realistic answer to a resolved Ulamog in the Marvel mirror, and it's more than just an answer - it can easily swing an entire game from unwinnable to unloseable. Coup also steals Marvel, which is awesome in tandem with Manglehorn, allowing you not only to take out an opposing Marvel before it can spin but also giving you an extra Marvel to start spinning yourself, making it that much harder for opponents to slog through your Marvels before they die to Ulamog. Coup is also not dead if the game shifts to everyone's Plan B, since stealing a big Tireless Tracker that's dominating the game is frequently the best response available. Coup is also a house against Winding Constrictor decks, and while that deck's metagame share has diminished (and while that deck wasn't a bad matchup anyway), having the extra sideboard bomb essentially for free is very nice. Play 2.
    Splashes
    Multiple Sultai and Bant versions of Marvel achieved 6-8 wins at Pro Tour Amonkhet. Decklists can be found here.
    This Bant Marvel deck achieved an MTGO competitive league 5-0.
    Articles
    Having failed to communicate and get agreement from the thread author, I have replaced the OP with a primer for a later version of a related archetype. The bulk of the primer was created by scasseden here. - hoser2
    Hello!

    So I'm making a deck centered around the card aetherworks marvel. Was wondering if I could get some feedback on it. Basically there are four types of cards in this deck. the cyclers, to help look for what I need, the energy cards to help stack 6 energy before turn 4, The big eldrazi that we will use to aetherworks to summon, and of course the legendary artifact itself. So far i've played quite a number of games with it and I always seem to get to aetherworks, one time even having to cycle through 40 cards. While its obviously weak to aggro, I feel like the high health minions and lifegain artifacts and spells can keep it at bay until I finish the game quickly with ulamog or emrakul. So please, let me know any feedback you have even if its just liking the deck and any weaknesses it might have

    Thanks!

    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Dredge question. Which is better Manaless or LEDless in my meta?
    Hi guys
    So I want to use a dredge deck but don't which one is better When I play with my friends
    LEDless dredge or Manaless dredge
    For the most part all of them play elves, goblins, BW tokens, Burn, and wolf tokens so it's a really creature based meta with a few control decks here and there but very few.
    So which one is better in this meta? Manaless or LEDless?

    Thanks!
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on Dredge Questions
    hi guys!
    So I want to start playing dredge where we play magic because it seems like fun. The problem is I don't have lions eye diamond (or LED). Because of that I could either go LEDless dredge or Manaless dredge but I don't know which one is better in my case. There is a lot of aggro elf decks, burn decks, token decks for the most part such as BW tokens and goblins. So which one would be better in this case, LEDless dredge or Manaless dredge and why?
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on [Deck] LED Dredge
    Well the meta at my fnm is pretty much exclusively creatures with not a lot of control. There are a lot of elves and burn decks and some variant of re animator and a wolf token deck. Which one would would be better in this case Assuming that most of them don't make any GY hate?
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] LED Dredge
    Which one would be faster?
    LEDless dredge or Manaless dredge?
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] LED Dredge
    Are there any substitutions to cabal therapy or ichorid?
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] LED Dredge
    The thing with LED is that I don't have it XD
    So should I just go standard dredge without LED? And if I do would it be faster than elves compared to Manaless dredge? Cuz i really hate elves no offense to elf players. Great tribe but it's not fun to play against. I just want to dredge so I can see the look on their face when I have more things on the board than them and win XD.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] LED Dredge
    Thanks for the steps and combos! Very appreciated!

    So yeah I think I'm just going to run Manaless dredge and then evolve it to a regular dredge deck when I get the more expensive cards. Besides there isn't much graveyard hate right now at least for me.

    I want to take out cabal therapy or ichorid (either one) as well but many people are saying its a key card. Is there a good substitute for either of them or are they must haves?

    with Manaless dredge what are its matchups against elves, goblins, and tokens?
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] LED Dredge
    Ok so I'm looking at dredge and it has me totally confused, awed, confused, and amazed. I tried to see videos online but it just looks like a guy milling himself and then winning or losing. How does dredge work in steps?

    Also if I continue to try out dredge I'm thinking of going Manaless since I don't have lion's eye diamond and looks really creative to play without lands. How would you win with Manaless dredge and how would it hold up against a creature heavy meta at my fnm? Specifically decks like elves, goblins, tokens, monsters etc. mind you there isn't much grave hate running around so I feel like changing that Grin
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
  • posted a message on Budget delver or straight burn?
    What if you do see a lot of combo decks like elves? What is the general strategy other than just using pyroclasm or something like that
    Posted in: Budget (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Budget delver or straight burn?
    Thanks ok



    So the thing is there are a lot of elves players. Does that change things for burn or is it still the way to go?

    Also this might sound weird but there are people who play BW tokens. Is eidolon of the great revel the way to go here?
    Posted in: Budget (Legacy)
  • posted a message on UR delver or burn which one is better?
    Ok so play burn ok

    Any good tips to help me with my meta? Like for elves it's easy to run pyroclasm and kill Em all but of your hand is full of spot burn what do you choose too kill?

    And for BW tokens, what do you do for anthems and token generator like lingering souls?

    Just want to know since burn seems like the way I'm going.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on Budget delver or straight burn?
    Now before you give your answers here something's you should know about.

    The meta at my fnm is very creature based. There are elves, BW tokens, Ramp, RG monsters ( of some sort), and goblins. There are very few control decks like miracles, so most of the time it's the creatures not counterspellss that cause the most trouble. That being said I want to go for one of the two decks above. But the problem is I don't have a big enough budget to include the following cards:
    Force of will
    Volcanic islands
    Pretty much most of the fetchlands
    With that being said which deck should I build, burn or Ur delver?
    Posted in: Budget (Legacy)
  • posted a message on UR delver or burn in my meta
    Now before you give your answers here something's you should know about.

    The meta at my fnm is very creature based. There are elves, BW tokens, Ramp, RG monsters ( of some sort), and goblins. There are very few control decks like miracles, so most of the time it's the creatures not counterspellss that cause the most trouble. That being said I want to go for one of the two decks above. But the problem is I don't have a big enough budget to include the following cards:
    Force of will
    Volcanic islands
    Pretty much most of the fetchlands
    With that being said which deck should I build, burn or Ur delver?
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
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