I feel like with Auriok, it just doesn't see that much play to be as expensive as it is, but you are correct about it being somewhat older.
@Passthechips, I'd also like to see a list.
I love the WB version, and I really want to try it, but I feel too invested in the UW version to just switch over. I'd probably do both, but it's expensive. Pontiff is so good. As is darkblast.
@Sheepz have you ever considered bitterblossom?
@Emuhell I can give you a more updated list pretty soon, but I have some changes I'd like to make first and then test, but I'm waiting on them because it's some more expensive stuff. I don't really like skyknight here either as already mentioned. It's fragile and I feel like it doesn't do enough.
Point taken about the spirit, but I feel like even against the decks that draw and have burn such as say delver, a lot of the time, they won't want to block it because they don't want to lose a delver or young pyro, unless they're really desperate. I know forked bolt just totally wrecks it, but a lot of the time, they need to answer it right away which means using their lightning bolt or something on it and then not on my bladesplicer. It really does play tempo. And, the rare chance of vialing it in to stop a cruise while uncommon, is so nice. It just kills cruise and their turn. Especially without dryad millitant (I cut him recently, but we'll see) I actually like the spirit. With Treasure cruise everywhere, I really think he can have a place in the meta even though he is very fragile. I've thought about mikokoro before too, but I'm not sure I need one. I agree with what hugeelfeboy was saying in that it doesn't happen often enough together to warrant it and without the spirit I don't want them getting cards. I run Vendilion which works wonders with it, but is good without it too. Plus, I would always want to do other things with my mana. It could maybe fit in there, but I think I like a second moorland haunt over it which also provides card advantage.
I was wondering what our MU against faeries is like. I've never played against them and people argue that they aren't a good deck right now, but still.
Has anybody played against them?
Earlier, I was playing a match in which I had out Ephara and geist, and I know that really feels like I've already won a lot of the time if I have both of those, but the interaction is amazing. Even if we don't get a creature to play from the draw, the angel guarantees us a card. Plus, it is an untargetable boost to devotion, if that can ever happen (it also feels like we should just win if we have enough stuff for 7 devotion in play and have been drawing).
As far as the SB, I think Auriok Champion is better than the Firewalker. Speaking of which, why is that thing so expensive? What decks even use it?
BW Tokens. If it isn't being used in Soul Sisters these days it probably should be.
Point taken but thee are more delver/burn decks out there than there are token/soul sister decks.
I actually really like it v delver. It helps keep those young pyromancers under control. Sure, they can get around it with enough tokens, but you get to always pick at least one off and gain life every time they make one.
How does everyone like the new spoiled card Valorous Stance? I love it can save a creature, or kill most decewnt things in format, Prophet of Kruphix, Deceiver Exarch, Titans, Goyf, Oooze, Rhino, Resto angel etc....
Do you mean in general or for us? Because for us, I think it's pretty bad. 2 mana to either kill a big thing or save one of our just isn't enough. the extra it would cost from Thalia makes it even worse. In general, I think it's pretty good. It'l be cool in standard and is decent enough to maybe see modern play, although I'm not sure in what deck(s).
Sure, but I feel like the creatures and pro make the Auriok more versatile. Like against just red burn, sure the firewalker is better, but I think that auriok still works for that matchup and can be sided against other decks too like delver or jund.
I am very happy with it and it won me 3 local tournaments in the last 2 months. I will probably exchange one Tectonic Edge with one Moorland Haunt .. but on the other hand I really like 8 land destruction effects and I don't want to go over 8 colorless lands.
It is a tempo list and it is highly meta-adjusted (as every d&t list should be). E.g. the amount of Forked Bolt and burn led to -2 Blade Splicer +2 Kitchen Finks main.
Another change could be -1 Spellskite +1 Thalia in the board. Spellskite does nothing for my tempo play. It wins certain matchups (bogles, twin, ~infect) that's why there is one left in the board.. but Thalia is also great against bogles and it contributes to my gameplan.
Hey, thanks for posting a UW list, it's not just me anymore .
As far as the lands, does tectonic do enough for you? I've been messing around with it, but it seems like if they are at 4 lands then that route is closed off. What about Horizon Canopy for the cycle? I dig the tempo approach. Does The ninja ever get to hit beyond the ninjitsu? And since so you're so Geist heavy, how often does he just get blocked? Like by a snapcaster or something? I currently run one geist so haven't seen too much of him so far. I noticed the vapor snag, presumably to help with the aforementioned, do you ever find yourself wanting more? The switch to Finks makes some sense to me, but even when they forked bolt, you still get the 3/3. Is the life gain more important here, or were you just seeing lots of sweepers?
As far as the SB, I think Auriok Champion is better than the Firewalker. Speaking of which, why is that thing so expensive? What decks even use it?
@Charons I have been play testing Ephara. Against really aggressive decks, she doesn't do enough so I never get a chance to play her, but against a lot of others, you are right about her huge amount of card advantage. I may have to play test the skaab. I can see what you mean about Venser though. And I think spellskite is a fantastic card, but I'm not sure I'm ready to sacrifice a lot for him just yet.
You could be right about the spirit, but I think you guys should test him. He really can do wonders, even without Vendilion.
word. Echoing Truth has been in and out of my SB for a while now.
Doing the 2/2 split with stonecloaker and Serra avenger working good so far. Flying is just so good in this meta.
I'm glad it's working for you. Some of the older stuff is playable. The meta morphs. I know I talk about this card all the time, but it was so good, Mana tithe hit so much stuff and I know it might not be right for us, but I have a soft spot for that card. I'm still not totally convinced it doesn't have a spot, it is such good tempo. And it's funny that Sheepz mentioned Revoker because I was putting in pithing needle for more board, but only had one, so put in a revoker. I boarded him in against pod and he actually did a fair amount of work. It was silly.
@Charons I noticed that seem thing, that my deck couldn't decide which way to play. The whole Ephara route in general is more control I think actually. So, even though cutting the spellstutters will help to make me more aggro, I feel like Ephara in general is going the opposite way. As someone pointed out earlier, she is meant for grindy games. Having said that, if I am going for a more aggressive build, is she still the right call? Spellstutter was odd in how it played. Sometimes, it was the best possible thing, over times it just sat there in my hand being irrelevant. However, I loved the interaction between vault and it. Also, people never remember that mutavault had firststrike while blade splicer is in. This actually made me want more mutas, which I think is more aggressive as well, even if I am losing the sprites.If I am still running Ephara, I agree with the switch to a resto, as I still have a finisher spot. I feel like if I add skaab and another moorland, they are really going to be competing for my dead creatures. I'm not sure I like that. I might go geist or Brimaz instead. Also main deck spellskite is not very aggro either. Venser seems intriguing though. Has anybody had any luck with him yet? As far as lands, if I kept it the the deck the way it was I think I'd need to swap a basic plains for an island. If I'm cutting both dryad and spirit, I seem to be losing all my stuff that's good v delver. What's helpful tech there?
@HugeElfBoy I have noticed that too and it was especially bad when I was running swords. Essentially, yes. It also feels amazing when an opponent tries to kill Kira with two spells then you get to flicker it. But, it definitely messes with things. I'm not sure which way to go on that. I think the idea is just to start going for beatdown and she flies so you can get in there fairly well, but often I get her when everything is already dead. So, I don't know.
@SpiderSpace: Spirit of the Labyrinth and Ephara, God of the Polis are no friends since you want to draw that additional card in your turn too. I didn't test your list but 9 non-colored lands and only 9 blue lands will make it hard to play a consistant game without vial.
The double U of Vendilion Clique is especially harsh - that's the only reason for me not to play it in my Wu list.
Unfortunately the same goes for Skaab Ruinator but as a 1-of thats ok most of the time. Problem is that Moorland Haunt doesn'T like the Ruinator. I'm a huge fan of Geist.
@HugeElfBoy: Stonecloaker > Skyfisher. But you don't want to play more than 2 of those cards since you want to build a board. Second reason is that you want you vial on 3 anyways and Stonecloaker got natural flash too. Third reason - which is not so important anymore - Stonecloaker in response to Snapcaster target leads to fizzling.
Yeah, I noticed that as well, but *shrugs* the interaction never occurred when I was playing it. The draw it shuts down in delver in particular is really nice and it pairs really really well with Vendilion. V is kind of hard to cast, but I haven't had that many issues with it. My only thing about spirit of the labyrinth is that I feel like I either want to add more and drop Ephara or drop them as a whole.... They can be so good and I think it's an underrated card.
I agree with Skaab. Is that to say, you like the skaab foor that spot?
I'd be very interested in seeing your WU list, if you have it handy.
So I revamped my list pretty nicely I think. I was doing well in play testing it, but as soon as I went to the modern dailys I lost both my first 2 matches in 3. The first was against burn and the second was against delver. neither of which I used to have trouble with. I'm not entirely understanding what's going on here as I feel like the deck functions much more cleanly now, but now I'm losing against these decks I used to be favored against. In burn, I still have all the same SB tech, and I felt like that pushed me over the edge. For delver, I'm not sure what it is. Perhaps the cards I used to have were just good against them? I remember mana tithing young pyromancer on T2 a lot before, perhaps that was what it was.
So, I'm thinking that maybe the dention spheres in the board should be other things and that one of the Venilions in the main should be something else, but I can't decide what. Right now, it's a fight between Geist of Saint Traft, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Kitchen Finks, Blade splicer, Skaab Ruinator or another Restoration Angel or Aven Mindcensor. I'm leaning towards Resto, Geist, or Brimaz. I'm still unsure about Ephara, God of the Polis because I often played her wishing she'd do something right away, but she doesn't if I don't have a vial or enough devotion, that often means I did nothing for a whole turn. Granted, when she did work, she drew me quite a bit of cards. I also never got her devotion to be high enough, which I know isn't the main point, but I thought it worth mentioning.
Also, I feel like a full set of mutavaults could be really nice, but I don't know where to cut. I'm already quite vulnerable to blood moon.
Any recommendations/ thoughts/ comments would be greatly appreciated.
It was tough between Militant and Javelineer, Delver is huge online as well as pod the 1 damage can be huge in those matchups. Horizon canopy is not run strictly for budget reasons when i get my next check it will be in there for sure! The reason i like the 2 cmc slot beefed up is because too many times I either miss a drop on Aether vial or T1 vial T2 land do nothing with land Maybe vial a creature in etc... then T3 May get a 3 drop in with mana and vial is useless. Both creatures I believe are great later game cards that don;t need to be vialed in. Worst case is usually T1 JAvelineers T2 Ping something skycatcher Javelineer etc... I have even T1 vial T2 Skycatcher a land. I know it seems odd but it seems to be working nicely, the air is where I win most of my games the ground either speeds up the clock or buys me time to win in the air.
I can understand that. I just like Militant more, personally. I've never felt like javelineer has done enough. Like I don't want to flicker it because I have better targets to flicker, you know? So sure you can maybe kill something, maybe not, but otherwise it's just a 1/1. Hmm.. I guess.
@Passthechips, I'd also like to see a list.
I love the WB version, and I really want to try it, but I feel too invested in the UW version to just switch over. I'd probably do both, but it's expensive. Pontiff is so good. As is darkblast.
@Sheepz have you ever considered bitterblossom?
@Emuhell I can give you a more updated list pretty soon, but I have some changes I'd like to make first and then test, but I'm waiting on them because it's some more expensive stuff. I don't really like skyknight here either as already mentioned. It's fragile and I feel like it doesn't do enough.
Point taken about the spirit, but I feel like even against the decks that draw and have burn such as say delver, a lot of the time, they won't want to block it because they don't want to lose a delver or young pyro, unless they're really desperate. I know forked bolt just totally wrecks it, but a lot of the time, they need to answer it right away which means using their lightning bolt or something on it and then not on my bladesplicer. It really does play tempo. And, the rare chance of vialing it in to stop a cruise while uncommon, is so nice. It just kills cruise and their turn. Especially without dryad millitant (I cut him recently, but we'll see) I actually like the spirit. With Treasure cruise everywhere, I really think he can have a place in the meta even though he is very fragile. I've thought about mikokoro before too, but I'm not sure I need one. I agree with what hugeelfeboy was saying in that it doesn't happen often enough together to warrant it and without the spirit I don't want them getting cards. I run Vendilion which works wonders with it, but is good without it too. Plus, I would always want to do other things with my mana. It could maybe fit in there, but I think I like a second moorland haunt over it which also provides card advantage.
Has anybody played against them?
I actually really like it v delver. It helps keep those young pyromancers under control. Sure, they can get around it with enough tokens, but you get to always pick at least one off and gain life every time they make one.
I just never see that deck, so it seems like it should be cheaper. I feel like soul sisters should too, but I think they often opt out of it.
Do you mean in general or for us? Because for us, I think it's pretty bad. 2 mana to either kill a big thing or save one of our just isn't enough. the extra it would cost from Thalia makes it even worse. In general, I think it's pretty good. It'l be cool in standard and is decent enough to maybe see modern play, although I'm not sure in what deck(s).
Hey, thanks for posting a UW list, it's not just me anymore
As far as the lands, does tectonic do enough for you? I've been messing around with it, but it seems like if they are at 4 lands then that route is closed off. What about Horizon Canopy for the cycle? I dig the tempo approach. Does The ninja ever get to hit beyond the ninjitsu? And since so you're so Geist heavy, how often does he just get blocked? Like by a snapcaster or something? I currently run one geist so haven't seen too much of him so far. I noticed the vapor snag, presumably to help with the aforementioned, do you ever find yourself wanting more? The switch to Finks makes some sense to me, but even when they forked bolt, you still get the 3/3. Is the life gain more important here, or were you just seeing lots of sweepers?
As far as the SB, I think Auriok Champion is better than the Firewalker. Speaking of which, why is that thing so expensive? What decks even use it?
You could be right about the spirit, but I think you guys should test him. He really can do wonders, even without Vendilion.
word. Echoing Truth has been in and out of my SB for a while now.
I'm glad it's working for you. Some of the older stuff is playable. The meta morphs. I know I talk about this card all the time, but it was so good, Mana tithe hit so much stuff and I know it might not be right for us, but I have a soft spot for that card. I'm still not totally convinced it doesn't have a spot, it is such good tempo. And it's funny that Sheepz mentioned Revoker because I was putting in pithing needle for more board, but only had one, so put in a revoker. I boarded him in against pod and he actually did a fair amount of work. It was silly.
@HugeElfBoy I have noticed that too and it was especially bad when I was running swords. Essentially, yes. It also feels amazing when an opponent tries to kill Kira with two spells then you get to flicker it. But, it definitely messes with things. I'm not sure which way to go on that. I think the idea is just to start going for beatdown and she flies so you can get in there fairly well, but often I get her when everything is already dead. So, I don't know.
I agree with Skaab. Is that to say, you like the skaab foor that spot?
I'd be very interested in seeing your WU list, if you have it handy.
Anyway, here's my current list.
Creatures 29
4 flickerwisp
4 spellstutter sprite
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
3 Blade splicer
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Restoration Angel
2 Dryad Militant
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Ephara, God of the Polis
4 Aether Vial
Instants 4
4 Path to Exile
Lands 23
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
1 Island
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Mutavault
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Detention Sphere
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Spellskite
2 Relic of progenitus
1 Hibernation
1 Kira, Great Glass-spinner
1 Kataki, War's Wage
So, I'm thinking that maybe the dention spheres in the board should be other things and that one of the Venilions in the main should be something else, but I can't decide what. Right now, it's a fight between Geist of Saint Traft, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Kitchen Finks, Blade splicer, Skaab Ruinator or another Restoration Angel or Aven Mindcensor. I'm leaning towards Resto, Geist, or Brimaz. I'm still unsure about Ephara, God of the Polis because I often played her wishing she'd do something right away, but she doesn't if I don't have a vial or enough devotion, that often means I did nothing for a whole turn. Granted, when she did work, she drew me quite a bit of cards. I also never got her devotion to be high enough, which I know isn't the main point, but I thought it worth mentioning.
Also, I feel like a full set of mutavaults could be really nice, but I don't know where to cut. I'm already quite vulnerable to blood moon.
Any recommendations/ thoughts/ comments would be greatly appreciated.
I can understand that. I just like Militant more, personally. I've never felt like javelineer has done enough. Like I don't want to flicker it because I have better targets to flicker, you know? So sure you can maybe kill something, maybe not, but otherwise it's just a 1/1. Hmm.. I guess.