Against an unknown opponent I usually lead with neonate. I play a lot online and therefore see a lot of burn. Being able to chump with neonates and then activate in response is good for a few life points and has stolen me a couple of game 1s against burn. The same could be said for any aggressive deck, too, but burn is the most common turn 1 hasty guy.
I also like to lead with neonate regardless if I have a stinkweed imp and a second untapped land drop. Trying to get another dredger before the next draw step is important. The draw step dredge is the most important because it's free. This can make Faithless Looting on turn 2 stronger because you can play it before the land drop and if you get even just a reasonable amount of luck end up with 15 or so cards in the yard and land your ghast or amalgam on turn 2. So yeah. I play the odds on that one.
The other case is post board. Depending on the cards in my hand other than those (did I mull to 5 with no thoughtseize against scapeshift?) I may loot to dig for hate.
Thanks for the insights especially the point being able to block a Goblin Guide or some other T1 haste creature. If you block and sac the Neonate (discarding Stinkweed Imp), do you immediately dredge your discarded Stinkweed or do you typically just take the draw off from your library? Is there a reason to do one versus the other? The only reason I can think of is to try and get a Narcomoeba & Amalgam out of the 5 dredge from the Stinkweed on their turn so you can attack them on your T2? I suppose if you dredge the discarded Stinkweed right at the end of your opponent's main phase or at your T2 draw step, no matter what your dredge chain is ending unless you have something already in your hand that will trigger more card draw for T2 correct?
Hi all, after years and years of just playing limited I decided it was time to use the all the cards I've gathered over the years and pick up modern. I'm looking forward to learning dredge, reading all the content here on this forum, and trying to be as active on here as well asking questions. I've read the dredge primer (great job by the way) and have only been goldfishing by myself just to see some of the common play choices that I might come across (I know this isn't ideal since a lot of play choices are determined by matchup and what is on the battlefield for your opponent).
So to start off the learning, if you have both Insolent Neonate, Faithless Looting, and Stinkweed Imp in your starting hand, what is your T1 play? Neonate or Looting? Is it more dependent of how much land you have in your hand? I feel like if you only have 1 land in your starting hand it's better to start with a T1 Looting to get more land then bin dredgers with the discard 2 at the end of the Looting?
Thanks for all the help everyone, looking forward to learn how to pilot this deck!
I'm surprised there haven't really been any comments like "rolling thunder was my mvp." I didn't see it get played but that card has to be good. Is it not as good as it was in the past?
No clue if you're allowed to promote your blog on the forum, but I don't really mind.
I've been pounding sealed deck generators with my friends and play testing. Vortex is better than impulse. Impulse can't target players. Every single time I drew vortex I was happy no matter first turn or late game. If you want to compare it to impulse, vortex is better.
The aura drawing card is also very good but I suppose I wouldn't fault someone for taking something else. He's right about the 4/6 vigilance tapper guy as a near bomb. It's pretty much this sets elite scaleguard. And knightly valor is good, but I think people are just hyping it up cause it's a reprint from RTR where it was good but common.
Oh and also the aura guy can fetch claustrophobia, just saying cause nobody brought it up.
I think red will be better than white. Whites rares aren't that great but almost all of reds rares are good. Celestial Flare was fine the last time it was printed but it will be slightly worse this time around because of all the thopters and little elves. Blacks rares seem very good to. I think I would be happy with only one of the white rares. The legendary flash guy.
Yeah I see your points, I just feel like epic confrontation is safer in the fact that it's a single green. I know that Aerie Bowmasters is a megamorph, but in all my experience he's really solid as your 4 drop and just mega morphing is just bonus when everyone is flooded and you top deck him. I think Aerie Bowmasters as a first pick is really saying you want to not just be green but green as your main color whereas epic confrontation may be a little bit more flexible?
I'm quickly learning to hate this format. It's all aggro all the time. Dash is too strong. It's ridiculous, linear, and boring.
If it helps it should be (at least a little) better once the prerelease events are over. The seeded pack makes decks come together more consistently, and online doesn't have the availability balance, so everyone can pick the strongest clans. I'm avoiding online prerelease events, personally.
Yeah I agree with both of you. I think Dash is really strong, but like Locke_Daemonfire points out, I think the consistency will go down a bit after the prerelease once the seeded packs are unavailable. Yeah I'm not doing any online sealed prereleases, if anything just draft or wait till the release events start.
Yeah you bring up a really good point. The 4cc slot tends to get a little crowded which makes Beastbreakers and similar 2 drops even more important. 2 drops in general have really gone up in my priority list. Because of this, I think all archetypes have to consider drafting their 2 drops earlier than before. Like if you're not exploiting a 2 drop for Vulturous Aven or Gurmag Drowner, then those cards really start becoming marginal.
Just trying to foster some discussion. Here are some situations that I've experienced. Please understand that these picks will differ depending on the deck you're drafting but anyway just for discussion:
This one I think is a little closer than the previous, I feel most situations will want Coat with Venom since it's so cheap and it's good in aggressive and controlling decks. I do think that sometimes the U/B Exploit decks will want Butcher's Glee more.
I think in general it's Sandcrafter Mage that I would rather have as my 3 drop. I feel like Misthoof Kirin is good (I really do like it), but I feel like it's a little fragile and slow. Sandcrafter Mage however works really well with Lightwalker which I see going around a little later (I suspect because Dromoka Warrior is the preferred 2 drop when in direct comparison)
Here are just a few examples of slightly tough choices (maybe they aren't). I know there are others, but I can't remember any at this time. I know there is one regarding Sprinting Warbrute. Do you have any others that you can think of?
I just wanted to start and generate some discussion on what people are thinking about the draft and sealed formats now that the prereleases are over and now that DTK is on MTGO (only prerelease events so far).
Any thoughts on the best draft archetype? I know that's not the best question but perhaps it will lead to some conversation. I currently think people don't value Ambuscade Shaman highly enough. I see it go around rather late and I think it's the most important piece to a successful dash deck (which by the way I think is the best archetype).
I do think U/B Exploit is very good, though I think too many people are drafting it right now. I know Vulturous Aven and Gurmag Drowner are really important for the deck to sustain and maintain its card advantage. However, I'm starting to feel like Palace Familiar, Sultai Emissary, and Jeskai Sage are maybe more important (higher picks) than the exploit card themselves. With the success of R/B Dash and with White being so aggressive, I feel like early drops are so important.
Another thought, I think white is pretty weak. Actually I think Dromoka is weak. I've 3-0'd with RB Dash, UB Exploit, and RG Formidable, but whenever I play against a WG deck, I just steamroll them and feel like it's a weak deck. I'm sure you can build successful WG decks but anyone else feel this way?
Surrak is good and there are some decent creatures to go with it. I decided though to go the other direction to value consistency. I felt like there wasn't a huge jump in power to try and incorporate all the different colors. I appreciate the opinion though, makes me feel that I wasn't at least totally crazy to consider it for a brief time.
Here are the things I learned (in no particular order):
1) Monastery Loremaster isn't that good of a card. A 3/2 for 4 isn't great and the megamorph cost is rather large. Not once did I ever unmorph it. It always ended up dying as a blocker. However, I understand the problem was magnified by the fact that my deck was a little crowded at the 4 drop slot and out of all the 4 drops, I would rather cast Lotus Path Djinn or Abzan Skycaptain. I always sided this out after every single game, if anything I should have played Champion of Arashin for the damage race.
2) I know Channel Harm is a little bit on the expensive side and good players can often play around it once they've seen it. However, with it being only 2 packs of FRF, people were always forgetting about it. My deck often would go into a damage race and this was exactly what I needed to survive a turn and kill they're best creature or their one blocker to beat them on the swing back. U/W sometimes has a hard time with removal and I desperately needed this.
3) Blessed Reincarnation was in my sideboard. I contemplated putting it in for game 2 or 3 but always choose against it. I think this was a mistake. This does kill things at instant speed and kills the hard-to-deal-with bombs. A lot of the decks I faced were playing a lot of 1 or 2 drops (Shambling Goblin, Kolaghan Aspirant, etc). Blessed Reincarnation would have allowed me to deal with bombs and if it missed the first time, then just cast it again on rebound and hope for the best. I think I should have main decked this. I probably should have taken out a Center Soul.
4) This deck was really weak because I didn't have any 2 drop creatures. I believe it is extremely important in this format to have 2 drops. I was always playing from behind trying to stabilize with Sandcrafter Mage as a 3/3 but always lost in combat somehow (combat trick, removal, etc). On the play I would do things like turn 3 Lightform, turn 4 Sandcrafter Mage or turn 3 Gudul Lurker, turn 4 Sandcrafter Mage and unmorph. Lessoned learned = need 2 drops. Thus I should have main decked Dragon Hunter. Plus there are a lot of hard to deal with dragons going around.
5) Center Soul wasn't that good. Sometimes it would save a creature, but the rebound always didn't do much cause I couldn't afford to attack. It's probably at its best in an aggressive shell. I'm sure this card is fine, but the problem may have been magnified by the absence of 2 drop creatures.
6) Scion of Ugin is okay (but I think all of us already knew this). Being colorless can be a bonus sometime.
7) Shu Yun with Taigam's Strike was awesome. On any creature (Lotus Path Djinn, itself, etc) it was 10 damage a turn. Sometimes I didn't have the 6 mana to do it all, but I could always get it on the rebound.
So to start off the learning, if you have both Insolent Neonate, Faithless Looting, and Stinkweed Imp in your starting hand, what is your T1 play? Neonate or Looting? Is it more dependent of how much land you have in your hand? I feel like if you only have 1 land in your starting hand it's better to start with a T1 Looting to get more land then bin dredgers with the discard 2 at the end of the Looting?
Thanks for all the help everyone, looking forward to learn how to pilot this deck!
I've been pounding sealed deck generators with my friends and play testing. Vortex is better than impulse. Impulse can't target players. Every single time I drew vortex I was happy no matter first turn or late game. If you want to compare it to impulse, vortex is better.
The aura drawing card is also very good but I suppose I wouldn't fault someone for taking something else. He's right about the 4/6 vigilance tapper guy as a near bomb. It's pretty much this sets elite scaleguard. And knightly valor is good, but I think people are just hyping it up cause it's a reprint from RTR where it was good but common.
Oh and also the aura guy can fetch claustrophobia, just saying cause nobody brought it up.
Epic Confrontation versus Aerie Bowmasters?
Any thoughts on the best draft archetype? I know that's not the best question but perhaps it will lead to some conversation. I currently think people don't value Ambuscade Shaman highly enough. I see it go around rather late and I think it's the most important piece to a successful dash deck (which by the way I think is the best archetype).
I do think U/B Exploit is very good, though I think too many people are drafting it right now. I know Vulturous Aven and Gurmag Drowner are really important for the deck to sustain and maintain its card advantage. However, I'm starting to feel like Palace Familiar, Sultai Emissary, and Jeskai Sage are maybe more important (higher picks) than the exploit card themselves. With the success of R/B Dash and with White being so aggressive, I feel like early drops are so important.
Another thought, I think white is pretty weak. Actually I think Dromoka is weak. I've 3-0'd with RB Dash, UB Exploit, and RG Formidable, but whenever I play against a WG deck, I just steamroll them and feel like it's a weak deck. I'm sure you can build successful WG decks but anyone else feel this way?
1 Gudul Lurker
1 Lightform
2 Sandcrafter Mage
1 Misthoof Kirin
1 Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
2 Lotus Path Djinn
1 Abzan Skycaptain
1 Gurmag Drowner
1 Monastery Loremaster
1 Icefall Regent
1 Cunning Breezedancer
1 Scion of Ugin
2 Center Soul
1 Anticipate
1 Silkwrap
3 Ojutai's Breath
1 Taigam's Strike
1 Channel Harm
Here are the things I learned (in no particular order):
1) Monastery Loremaster isn't that good of a card. A 3/2 for 4 isn't great and the megamorph cost is rather large. Not once did I ever unmorph it. It always ended up dying as a blocker. However, I understand the problem was magnified by the fact that my deck was a little crowded at the 4 drop slot and out of all the 4 drops, I would rather cast Lotus Path Djinn or Abzan Skycaptain. I always sided this out after every single game, if anything I should have played Champion of Arashin for the damage race.
2) I know Channel Harm is a little bit on the expensive side and good players can often play around it once they've seen it. However, with it being only 2 packs of FRF, people were always forgetting about it. My deck often would go into a damage race and this was exactly what I needed to survive a turn and kill they're best creature or their one blocker to beat them on the swing back. U/W sometimes has a hard time with removal and I desperately needed this.
3) Blessed Reincarnation was in my sideboard. I contemplated putting it in for game 2 or 3 but always choose against it. I think this was a mistake. This does kill things at instant speed and kills the hard-to-deal-with bombs. A lot of the decks I faced were playing a lot of 1 or 2 drops (Shambling Goblin, Kolaghan Aspirant, etc). Blessed Reincarnation would have allowed me to deal with bombs and if it missed the first time, then just cast it again on rebound and hope for the best. I think I should have main decked this. I probably should have taken out a Center Soul.
4) This deck was really weak because I didn't have any 2 drop creatures. I believe it is extremely important in this format to have 2 drops. I was always playing from behind trying to stabilize with Sandcrafter Mage as a 3/3 but always lost in combat somehow (combat trick, removal, etc). On the play I would do things like turn 3 Lightform, turn 4 Sandcrafter Mage or turn 3 Gudul Lurker, turn 4 Sandcrafter Mage and unmorph. Lessoned learned = need 2 drops. Thus I should have main decked Dragon Hunter. Plus there are a lot of hard to deal with dragons going around.
5) Center Soul wasn't that good. Sometimes it would save a creature, but the rebound always didn't do much cause I couldn't afford to attack. It's probably at its best in an aggressive shell. I'm sure this card is fine, but the problem may have been magnified by the absence of 2 drop creatures.
6) Scion of Ugin is okay (but I think all of us already knew this). Being colorless can be a bonus sometime.
7) Shu Yun with Taigam's Strike was awesome. On any creature (Lotus Path Djinn, itself, etc) it was 10 damage a turn. Sometimes I didn't have the 6 mana to do it all, but I could always get it on the rebound.