If this is on the board at the same time as silence, neither player can cast anything. Except for you. You still have Simian Spirit Guide.
This means we'll have to run Runeflare Trap and Howling Mine to effectively end games in this matchup, but if that's not a hard counter to Stony Silence in this deck, I don't know what is.
I have to say thanks! I never considered the potential of these cards with Coretapper. By expending on cards similar to these, I've managed to filter out a mono-R version. I'm very confident in this version's level of consistency. So much so, that I've trimmed it down to a mere 15 lands. Have a look.
As it stands now, Atlas, Reforge, or Command can be used to renew hands to 7, permitting a platform for Psyche to bounce from.
Also, the deck is capable of so much mana that it can cast Psyche, Vengeance, and then a FB'd Vengeance!
So, I've been bored with my usual Emeria deck shenanigans and figured I'd give Izzet a shot.
I've noticed most decks involving UR were mostly about tempo and combo (and of course the Eldrazi flavor of the month). Never one to follow the mainstream, I decided to try to make a concept more in-line with the concept of Izzet, at least flavor-wise.
While this deck certainly leans toward combo in its style, I feel it better classifies as a modified aggro/burn deck due to its tunnel-vision focus on direct player damage at endgame. Its setup time definitely makes a combo-ish feel, though no specific pieces are required to make damage conditions satisfied.
The Concept
The goal of the deck is to satisfy the conditions to cast either Runeflare Trap and/or Molten Psyche, which, after casting two in any combination of either spell, or in conjunction with Increasing Vengeance, lethal damage levels will have been achieved.
Since there is a Metalcraft requirement in Molten Psyche, the deck must have a large amount of artifacts in it. Since we want to cause the opponent to draw cards to satisfy Runeflare Trap's condition, the focus becomes clear -- we want artifacts that cause both of us to draw cards.
This deck would be mono-red naturally, but a blue splash is warranted in Vision Skeins. It streams in a lot of cards, and satisfies Runeflare Trap by itself when casted on the enemy turn. Notably, it can be copied via Increasing Vengeance (which then can be flashbacked with a wincon spell later, so it's not a waste).
Pros/Cons
This deck's speed is ridiculous -- a nut draw scenario, like a turn 1 Opal-Mine-Chalice=0-Land-Guide means you have metalcraft satisfied immediately, are already streaming in cards, and are simply waiting for damage spells to show up to end the game. There are several nut-draw scenarios similar to this.
The deck falters when it can't draw extra cards. If the key elements are being blocked -- Mine, Bell, Skeins -- it can't win. It's not a big deal if you lose the wincon spells sitting in your hand; you can just draw another eventually (in this deck, though, "eventually" means "very soon" with the card flow). Losing the ability to draw cards (Destroyed artifact, Stony Silence, discarded Skeins) is the glaring weak spot, since you also lost the ability to satisfy Trap/Psyche.
Snapcaster Mage is for when your hand is being repeatedly nuked. For a deck like this, he's expensive, but well worth the choice of anything your opponent sent to the grave. He can also be a catalyst to make a flashback Increasing Vengeance cheaper (4 mana vs 5).
Reforge the Soul is an excellent precursor to both Runeflare Trap and Molten Psyche (Since Psyche counts every card drawn this turn). However, the non-miracle cost is often going to be what you pay. That means this should only be used to reset an enemy hand to 7 when you can't keep them full.
Other Card Ideas
These are some cards I've tried out and considered, but didn't like during testing phases. Maybe you can find something among these cards that I didn't.
I'm always open-eared to any type of criticism or suggestions. The main things I'm hoping to get out of this thread are ways to add consistency. The deck has the speed to deal its damage before seeing removal effects, but there is always the rare corner case when I can't get access to a Mine/Bell. Helping to fix this would make the deck a powerhouse, I think.
If we were to take in MaRo's comments in this video at face value (Namely, the fact that they have had Barry's Land thought-out and ready to go), OGW sounds like the perfect place to "deploy it" (as Wastes).
If that is the case, it leaves the question of Kozilek requiring that same <> mana. My conjecture (read: educated guess, not fact -- I see you trolls. o_O) is they decided to shoehorn Wastes in at the last minute, but they didn't want to leave it at that, so they added the mechanic of "Colorless required" to a handful of cards that were probably a full-generic cost beforehand. Kozilek likely changed from 10 to 8<><> as Wastes was added.
It would make sense with the leak too. The spoilers we have contains every possible size of the new mana icon, which reeks of a test-print that got leaked. They probably wanted to see how the mana symbol would look on a few cards, so these three were an obvious go-to.
Does this guess make sense to anyone? I'm obviously just speculating here, but every time I edit this it feels more like a really good guess.
I don't know if this has been discussed or not yet, so I'll just say what I need to say here.
Consider this: For basic lands, the land subtype basic land type is what grants mana abilities.
305.6. The basic land types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. If an object uses the words “basic land type,” it’s referring to one of these subtypes. A land with a basic land type has the intrinsic ability “{T}: Add [mana symbol] to your mana pool,” even if the text box doesn’t actually contain that text or the object has no text box. For Plains, [mana symbol] is {W}; for Islands, {U}; for Swamps, {B}; for Mountains, {R}; and for Forests, {G}. See rule 107.4a. Also see rule 605, “Mana Abilities.”
By viewing Wastes, we can clearly see that it has the ability, {T}: Add <> to your mana pool. But there is no subtype basic land type to grant this ability, nor is there explicit text to give it this ability.
This ability shouldn't be granted to the card by the fact that it is basic, but rather the fact that it has no subtypes basic land types. If it were, then all other basic lands could provide <>, which makes no sense.
With these propositions in mind, I have two questions:
If wastes gains a subtype basic land type (say via Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, does it intrinsically lose the ability to provide <>?
If basic lands were to somehow lose all their subtypes basic land types, would they gain the ability to provide <>?
Just wanted to throw this out here because I threw it together and had a few consistent turn 4 wins with it. Ideas for improvement could be nice -- notably I can dig up anything I want that costs 2 or 4 on turn 3, so cards with those CMC's would be ideal.
The curve is fairly simple:
Turn 1: Play the Temple of Silence if I have it. Otherwise drop a land that would tap on ETB.
Runed Servitor is a draw engine which requires 2x Heartless or 1x Ironworks to be effective. Once a combo is online, I can use it to draw to Perilous Myr and end the game.
Mycosynth Lattice.
If this is on the board at the same time as silence, neither player can cast anything. Except for you. You still have Simian Spirit Guide.
This means we'll have to run Runeflare Trap and Howling Mine to effectively end games in this matchup, but if that's not a hard counter to Stony Silence in this deck, I don't know what is.
3 Runeflare Trap
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Howling Mine
Also, thoughts on Chandra Ablaze instead of Incendiary Command?
The deck can, no doubt, afford a 6-mana walker. And all three of her abilities seem relevant to this deck.
I have to say thanks! I never considered the potential of these cards with Coretapper. By expending on cards similar to these, I've managed to filter out a mono-R version. I'm very confident in this version's level of consistency. So much so, that I've trimmed it down to a mere 15 lands. Have a look.
4 Mox Opal
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Astral Cornucopia
4 Surge Node
4 Energy Chamber
4 Otherworld Atlas
Creatures (8)
4 Coretapper
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Reforge the Soul
2 Incendiary Command
Combo Spells (7)
3 Increasing Vengeance
4 Molten Psyche
Lands (15)
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 Darksteel Citadel
10 Mountain
4 Defense Grid
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
3 Engineered Explosives
As it stands now, Atlas, Reforge, or Command can be used to renew hands to 7, permitting a platform for Psyche to bounce from.
Also, the deck is capable of so much mana that it can cast Psyche, Vengeance, and then a FB'd Vengeance!
So, I've been bored with my usual Emeria deck shenanigans and figured I'd give Izzet a shot.
I've noticed most decks involving UR were mostly about tempo and combo (and of course the Eldrazi flavor of the month). Never one to follow the mainstream, I decided to try to make a concept more in-line with the concept of Izzet, at least flavor-wise.
While this deck certainly leans toward combo in its style, I feel it better classifies as a modified aggro/burn deck due to its tunnel-vision focus on direct player damage at endgame. Its setup time definitely makes a combo-ish feel, though no specific pieces are required to make damage conditions satisfied.
The Concept
The goal of the deck is to satisfy the conditions to cast either Runeflare Trap and/or Molten Psyche, which, after casting two in any combination of either spell, or in conjunction with Increasing Vengeance, lethal damage levels will have been achieved.
Since there is a Metalcraft requirement in Molten Psyche, the deck must have a large amount of artifacts in it. Since we want to cause the opponent to draw cards to satisfy Runeflare Trap's condition, the focus becomes clear -- we want artifacts that cause both of us to draw cards.
Two artifacts immediately come to mind: Howling Mine and Temple Bell. The rest of the artifact base is focused on mana ramping, via Mox Opal, Izzet Signet, and Everflowing Chalice. That last one can be cast for 0 in a pinch to achieve Metalcraft.
This deck would be mono-red naturally, but a blue splash is warranted in Vision Skeins. It streams in a lot of cards, and satisfies Runeflare Trap by itself when casted on the enemy turn. Notably, it can be copied via Increasing Vengeance (which then can be flashbacked with a wincon spell later, so it's not a waste).
Pros/Cons
This deck's speed is ridiculous -- a nut draw scenario, like a turn 1 Opal-Mine-Chalice=0-Land-Guide means you have metalcraft satisfied immediately, are already streaming in cards, and are simply waiting for damage spells to show up to end the game. There are several nut-draw scenarios similar to this.
The deck falters when it can't draw extra cards. If the key elements are being blocked -- Mine, Bell, Skeins -- it can't win. It's not a big deal if you lose the wincon spells sitting in your hand; you can just draw another eventually (in this deck, though, "eventually" means "very soon" with the card flow). Losing the ability to draw cards (Destroyed artifact, Stony Silence, discarded Skeins) is the glaring weak spot, since you also lost the ability to satisfy Trap/Psyche.
The List
4 Howling Mine
4 Temple Bell
4 Izzet Signet
4 Mox Opal
2 Everflowing Chalice
Instants (12)
4 Runeflare Trap
4 Increasing Vengeance
4 Vision Skeins
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Molten Psyche
Lands (22)
2 Cascade Bluffs
5 Mountain
3 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Echoing Truth
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Reforge the Soul
4 Defense Grid
Sideboard Logic
Defense Grid and Echoing Truth are obvious choices.
Snapcaster Mage is for when your hand is being repeatedly nuked. For a deck like this, he's expensive, but well worth the choice of anything your opponent sent to the grave. He can also be a catalyst to make a flashback Increasing Vengeance cheaper (4 mana vs 5).
Reforge the Soul is an excellent precursor to both Runeflare Trap and Molten Psyche (Since Psyche counts every card drawn this turn). However, the non-miracle cost is often going to be what you pay. That means this should only be used to reset an enemy hand to 7 when you can't keep them full.
Other Card Ideas
These are some cards I've tried out and considered, but didn't like during testing phases. Maybe you can find something among these cards that I didn't.
Your Thoughts?
I'm always open-eared to any type of criticism or suggestions. The main things I'm hoping to get out of this thread are ways to add consistency. The deck has the speed to deal its damage before seeing removal effects, but there is always the rare corner case when I can't get access to a Mine/Bell. Helping to fix this would make the deck a powerhouse, I think.
It really makes no sense why they didn't do this mana change in BFZ.
If we were to take in MaRo's comments in this video at face value (Namely, the fact that they have had Barry's Land thought-out and ready to go), OGW sounds like the perfect place to "deploy it" (as Wastes).
If that is the case, it leaves the question of Kozilek requiring that same <> mana. My conjecture (read: educated guess, not fact -- I see you trolls. o_O) is they decided to shoehorn Wastes in at the last minute, but they didn't want to leave it at that, so they added the mechanic of "Colorless required" to a handful of cards that were probably a full-generic cost beforehand. Kozilek likely changed from 10 to 8<><> as Wastes was added.
It would make sense with the leak too. The spoilers we have contains every possible size of the new mana icon, which reeks of a test-print that got leaked. They probably wanted to see how the mana symbol would look on a few cards, so these three were an obvious go-to.
Does this guess make sense to anyone? I'm obviously just speculating here, but every time I edit this it feels more like a really good guess.
Who is they, and when/where did they say this?
If this is somehow not true, I highly doubt cards with <> in their costs will see play in modern aside from reanimation.
Consider this: For basic lands, the
land subtypebasic land type is what grants mana abilities.By viewing Wastes, we can clearly see that it has the ability, {T}: Add <> to your mana pool. But there is no
subtypebasic land type to grant this ability, nor is there explicit text to give it this ability.This ability shouldn't be granted to the card by the fact that it is basic, but rather the fact that it has no
subtypesbasic land types. If it were, then all other basic lands could provide <>, which makes no sense.With these propositions in mind, I have two questions:
If wastes gains a
subtypebasic land type (say via Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, does it intrinsically lose the ability to provide <>?If basic lands were to somehow lose all their
subtypesbasic land types, would they gain the ability to provide <>?4 Perilous Myr
4 Runed Servitor
Transmutes (8)
4 Shred Memory
4 Dimir House Guard
Gimmick Permanents (16)
4 Athreos, God of Passage
4 Heartless Summoning
4 Enduring Renewal
4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
4 Disentomb
Land (24)
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Godless Shrine
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Temple of Silence
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Disenchant
4 Defense Grid
4 Greater Auramancy
Just wanted to throw this out here because I threw it together and had a few consistent turn 4 wins with it. Ideas for improvement could be nice -- notably I can dig up anything I want that costs 2 or 4 on turn 3, so cards with those CMC's would be ideal.
The curve is fairly simple: